Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

beno619

Headshot wrote: »

Scholes made a good point about him after the game. Mentioned that Fell just breaks up the play brings nothing else. He wont dictate the game etc

Fell and Pogba partnership will never work in the long term, Pogba needs someone beside him that can control the temp and few nice passes to the attack. Someone like Kross

Pogba and Kroos sounds terrible and still unbalanced.

jpboard1

Mourinho has some task on his hands. United really are muck. Problem with spending all that money is, it cuts the honeymoon period very short. Looks like the chequebook will be out again in January.

bangkok

beno619 wrote: »

Pogba and Kroos sounds terrible and still unbalanced.

im not sure if you are joking or not??

Kroos would be ideal for us, we are very poor in possession.

just think there, mourinho will never have us playing the football city are currently playing or dare i say it, the football liverpool played away at cheslea friday night, just not his style

jpboard1

bangkok wrote: »

beno619 wrote: »

Pogba and Kroos sounds terrible and still unbalanced.

im not sure if you are joking or not??

Kroos would be ideal for us, we are very poor in possession.

just think there, mourinho will never have us playing the football city are currently playing or dare i say it, the football liverpool played away at cheslea friday night, just not his style

How about dropping maya deeper to try and hold on to it a bit better and work on distribution?

Pro. F

Nalz wrote: »

Saying Rooney was the best of our front four isn't saying much by any stretch, plus I don't. See how he was to be honest. We're talking tiny insignificant margins at this stage...

Not insignificant at all. As I saw it, in the first half, Rooney was miles better than Martial and a fair bit better than Rashford. With Ibra it was closer.

Nalz wrote: »

...and it reads to me like a weak attempt to defend him re a recent argument about how good Rooney has been for club and country. Just how I see it.

Your argument looks to me like a poorly constructed effort to scapegoat Rooney for team wide failings.

Iago

Liam O wrote: »

Can you not see him in both pictures?

He's being given the run around because beside Pogba he's basically a lone midfielder as Pogba is very tactically naive. The 2 players capable of playing the deep role are over 30 and Mourinho doesn't fancy one of them. Fellaini can't keep being asked to cover both sides and the middle without anyone else there, he gets dragged to one side and it leaves gaping hole in the middle.

Really missed Blind today, he covers a lot of those gaps.

Exactly that, Pogba was at fault for two goals today. Overall he's been disappointing so far, but it's early days and he's in a new team/new formation so it's going to take time. He doesn't seem to be playing a "position" right now but that means he seems regularly out of position. For their second goal though, he wasn't out of position, he just switched off. Fellaini went in to try and cover and that left an acre behind him.

Having both Rooney & Pogba who essentially seem to have free roles just isn't working, there are many other problems (passing across the team was beyond dire today for example) but that's a big part of it.

wintear

Could Mourinho be letting Rooney play himself out of the club?

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

Not insignificant at all. As I saw it, in the first half, Rooney was miles better than Martial and a fair bit better than Rashford. With Ibra it was closer.



Your argument looks to me like a poorly constructed effort to scapegoat Rooney for team wide failings.

Tit for tat so yeah?

I wonder what the wider audience think

beno619

bangkok wrote: »

im not sure if you are joking or not??

Kroos would be ideal for us, we are very poor in possession.

just think there, mourinho will never have us playing the football city are currently playing or dare i say it, the football liverpool played away at cheslea friday night, just not his style

No Joke.

Pogba & Kroos in a 2 man midfield would have us looking even more porous than we already do.

Kroos is **** defensively and Pogba isn't that great imo.

Your comment about City & Pool is a tad hyperbolic.

Manutd_4life

Even our loaned players are having a nightmare on the pitch......Januzaj red card

Sad day today

Pro. F

Nalz wrote: »

Tit for tat so yeah?

I wonder what the wider audience think

Oh I'm sorry. You want to doubt the honesty of my argument but don't like it when I do the same to you?

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

Oh I'm sorry. You want to doubt the honesty of my argument but don't like it when I do the same to you?

No no not at all. Don't turn it into an aggressive or petty argument or a poster v poster thing. I disagree with you, you disagree with me. I think part your post was written biasedly to defend Rooney after all the debates lately. Tit for tat.

Let's keep it civil, and let me wonder what others think and state that so others can join in.

Chill a little.

Pro. F

Nalz wrote: »

No no not at all. Don't turn it into an aggressive or petty argument or a poster v poster thing. I disagree with you, you disagree with me. I think part your post was written biasedly to defend Rooney after all the debates lately. Tit for tat.

Let's keep it civil, and let me wonder what others think and state that so others can join in.

If you want to express doubts you have about the motivation behind my argument I think you should PM me.

You think I am biased, I think you are biased. So what? Nobody cares about what we think about the motivations behind each other's arguments. As I say, you should PM me if you think it's that important.

Nalz wrote: »

Chill a little.

I'm perfectly relaxed about this thanks.

TheDoc

Bit late talking about Kroos really isn't it?

And he would still form part of a three. Would need a deep lying CM as kroos cannot anchor a midfield solo.

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

If you want to express doubts you have about the motivation behind my argument I think you should PM me.

You think I am biased, I think you are biased. So what? Nobody cares about what we think about the motivations behind each other's arguments. As I say, you should PM me if you think it's that important.



I'm perfectly relaxed about this thanks.

What's this PM business and how has it gone to this serious level for want of a better word?

It's not just what we think. I'm interested what others thin too.. I've no interest in PM'ing it's perfectly fine to debate how people think Rooney and co's performance was today. It's perfectly fine I think (mods correct me if I'm wrong and apologies Pro.F if I am) to question why someone thinks a player did well or better than others whilst suggesting they're biased and trying to support a recent argument weakly.

Cool, if you're chilled then that's great.

bangkok

beno619 wrote: »

No Joke.

Pogba & Kroos in a 2 man midfield would have us looking even more porous than we already do.

Kroos is **** defensively and Pogba isn't that great imo.

Your comment about City & Pool is a tad hyperbolic.

i wouldnt play a 2 man midfield, would have 3 in there



Martial

---

Ibrahimovic

---

Mkhitayaran


Pogba

---

Kroos

---

Herrera

also im serious about city, liverpool. some of liverpools first half display against chelsea and citys 40mins against us i dont think we will ever see that play under jose. Even against Feynoord you could see rashford a few times shouting at players to get forward as there was no one supporting him, same thing happened a few times at real with ronaldo, mourinho dropping everyone back apart from 1 player who is left isolated. trying to play on the counter the whole time

Pro. F

Kroos is great and all, but I think it would be a disaster to play him in there alongside Pogba. Kroos is only okay defensively, even though he is happy playing from deep.

Weigl would be a far more appropriate German CM to be looking at. Although I don't think any one player is the problem or solution anyway.

jpboard1

Pro. F wrote: »

Rooney was the best of the front four in the first half, but that won't have stopped him being blamed for everything. He absolutely tanked at the beginning of the second half and I was surprised he wasn't subbed. But then Mourinho only subbed on attackers for defenders, so that was understandable, and then Rooney copped on anyway.

Really??

http://www.rentadrone.tv/cnbc-live-stream/

Pro. F

jpboard1 wrote: »

Really??

http://www.rentadrone.tv/cnbc-live-stream/

That link isn't working. What was on the other end of it?

jpboard1

Pro. F wrote: »

jpboard1 wrote: »

Really??

http://www.rentadrone.tv/cnbc-live-stream/

That link isn't working. What was on the other end of it?

https://streamable.com/i6up

Working now?

J. Marston

Next five games...

Leicester (H)
Stoke (H)
Chelsea (A)
Liverpool (A)
Burnley (H)

I'm scared.

Pro. F

jpboard1 wrote: »

https://streamable.com/i6up

Working now?

Yep, working now. As I said in the other thead, you could make a similar - or worse - video for any of the outfield players.

Son Of A Vidic

Never build a house on weak foundations and I think Mourinho is paying the price for not clearing out the players that needed moving on. I can't see much improvement until this is sorted out. Mediocrity can have a contagious effect in any sport and we've got too many mediocre players in the squad. Clearing out these players during the summer, would have also sent a very strong & clear message to other players who may have an inclination to under-performing. Jose also needs to stop being a friend to the players and start being their boss. The day off he gives them, that they weren't getting under previous managers needs to stop. I'm also getting a bit sick of him blaming refs tbh. The better team won today and before that tackle on Martial, we could have been 2-0 down. The most worrying thing about the last three games is, we've played three different types of teams and each team was more hungry, more aggressive and the first to every break down than the United team was. That needs to stop, so the weeks ahead will be very interesting to see how Jose manages this slump.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Kroos is great and all, but I think it would be a disaster to play him in there alongside Pogba. Kroos is only okay defensively, even though he is happy playing from deep.

Weigl would be a far more appropriate German CM to be looking at. Although I don't think any one player is the problem or solution anyway.

like i said i wouldnt play him in a 2, it would be a 3 with herrera.

weigl is good but lacks the experience to play there if you include pogba.

Verratti would be my preferred option after kroos

jpboard1

Pro. F wrote: »

jpboard1 wrote: »

https://streamable.com/i6up

Working now?

Yep, working now. As I said in the other thead, you could make a similar - or worse - video for any of the outfield players.

Rooney is shocking. He has to be dropped. For club & country

bangkok

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Even our loaned players are having a nightmare on the pitch......Januzaj red card

Sad day today

januzaj was a shocking challenge, a cowards tackle

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

like i said i wouldnt play him in a 2, it would be a 3 with herrera.

weigl is good but lacks the experience to play there if you include pogba.

Verratti would be my preferred option after kroos

That's fair enough, but Beno was disagreeing with what Headshot had suggested, not your suggestion.

I'd prefer Weigl's defensive ability over Kroos's experience myself. But we should be able to make a midfield that works from the players in the squad all ready tbh.

brinty

J. Marston wrote: »

Next five games...

Leicester (H)
Stoke (H)
Chelsea (A)
Liverpool (A)
Burnley (H)

I'm scared.

Be just like us to get 12 points and lose to burnley

DeanAustin

Jesus lads, ye do realise that ye don't have Kroos right?

Flint Fredstone

DeanAustin wrote: »

Jesus lads, ye do realise that ye don't have Kroos right?

No. We all thought he signed for us :rolleyes:

Sgt Pepper 64

Im afraid you are seeing the Jose who was at my chelsea last season.
he hasnt changed in years, blames everyone but himself, creates the cult of Jose

at chelsea he refused to drop players like Ivan and matic who a blind man could see were woeful (and still are)

to be fair, the board didnt back him in the market but even so, I think he has lost a lot of his allure and confidence and that seeps through to the team
Utd is his last big gig in england and already the defeats will be clouding his mind and judgement

theres still a chance of course but weve seen it before last season and the omens arent good

DeanAustin

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

No. We all thought he signed for us :rolleyes:

Seems like it the way some of you are talking...

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

caviardreams

brinty wrote: »

Be just like us to get 12 points and lose to burnley

Right now, I'd gladly take that mind you!

Flint Fredstone

DeanAustin wrote: »

Seems like it the way some of you are talking...

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Some people are discussing a player they think would or wouldn't work in this team. Not that hard to understand really.

RasTa

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Im afraid you are seeing the Jose who was at my chelsea last season.
he hasnt changed in years, blames everyone but himself, creates the cult of Jose

at chelsea he refused to drop players like Ivan and matic who a blind man could see were woeful (and still are)

Tbf Conte is also playing them and so did Hiddink. No point in even discussing Jose now until he has a full season under his belt, unless it goes Moyes bad.

Korat

Rooney provided leadership today, he led the team as best he could.

PhlegmyMoses

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Im afraid you are seeing the Jose who was at my chelsea last season.
he hasnt changed in years, blames everyone but himself, creates the cult of Jose

at chelsea he refused to drop players like Ivan and matic who a blind man could see were woeful (and still are)

to be fair, the board didnt back him in the market but even so, I think he has lost a lot of his allure and confidence and that seeps through to the team
Utd is his last big gig in england and already the defeats will be clouding his mind and judgement

theres still a chance of course but weve seen it before last season and the omens arent good

Give him a bit like. He was a title winning manager not two years ago. This rush to write everybody off after a bad start is just insanity.

PhlegmyMoses

Pro. F wrote: »

That's fair enough, but Beno was disagreeing with what Headshot had suggested, not your suggestion.

I'd prefer Weigl's defensive ability over Kroos's experience myself. But we should be able to make a midfield that works from the players in the squad all ready tbh.

Correct. This idea that our only way to play well is to buy up players in functioning sides needs to stop. Our whole team is under performing right now. Jose needs time and space to earn his coin and get them playing his way.

edgecutter

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Correct. This idea that our only way to play well is to buy up players in functioning sides needs to stop. Our whole team is under performing right now. Jose needs time and space to earn his coin and get them playing his way.

I agree, but he needs to sort out who his best 11 are and sort out the formation that we are using, be it 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3.

He also needs to make the big calls and drop the underperforming wage stealers.

Cantona's Collars

Did anyone post Rooney's stats for today?

33 successful passes out of 40 attempts. 1 completed pass every 3 minutes or so from our 'creative fulcrum'.

0 chances created from play (2 from deadballs)

27 of the 33 successful passes were backwards (15) or square (12)

0 through balls

0 tackles attempted

0 take ons

0 shots on target

1 shot off target (if you could call it a shot)

1 interception

1 block

0 from 1 aerial duels

1 foul commited

1 foul drawn.

This fella is supposed to be the captain and creative force in the team? I'm sorry but he is done.I don't care about others saying "sure player X or Y was worse",players have off days but not every game for 3 seasons.

https://twitter.com/FCAfkicken/status/777547035746578432

Manutd_4life

Korat wrote: »

Rooney provided leadership today, he led the team as best he could.

Care to elaborate. He showed to me the exact opposite today. All he did well today imo was whinging to the ref at every decision against us.

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

Did anyone post Rooney's stats for today?

33 successful passes out of 40 attempts. 1 completed pass every 3 minutes or so from our 'creative fulcrum'.

0 chances created from play (2 from deadballs)

27 of the 33 successful passes were backwards (15) or square (12)

0 through balls

0 tackles attempted

0 take ons

0 shots on target

1 shot off target (if you could call it a shot)

1 interception

1 block

0 from 1 aerial duels

1 foul commited

1 foul drawn.

This fella is supposed to be the captain and creative force in the team? I'm sorry but he is done.I don't care about others saying "sure player X or Y was worse",players have off days but not every game for 3 seasons.

https://twitter.com/FCAfkicken/status/777547035746578432

If you are going to make things up you should at least make them plausible.

Nalz

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Care to elaborate. He showed to me the exact opposite today. All he did well today imo was whinging to the ref at every decision against us.

+1

Cantona's Collars

Korat wrote: »

Rooney provided leadership today, he led the team as best he could.

Leadership is dragging your team through when things aren't going right,leading by example,helping and cajoling team mates.Trying to score or create a goal.It isn't whining at the ref,the linesman or anyone else unfortunate enough to be within earshot.
Others were poor today but our captain is at a level where even something half decent is not the norm from him anymore.Sentiment or loyalty to a long serving player cannot come into it,when somebody becomes a liability on the field then they do not deserve a place in the team.

TheDoc

Nalz wrote: »

+1

What was he doing to that lino? Up in his grill.

And then the petulant attempt at a angled stamp.

Totally lost his head. Probably knows he's in for headlines and he's in trouble.

Red cars might have been a blessing just to make sure he was our of the team.

Nalz

TheDoc wrote: »

What was he doing to that lino? Up in his grill.

And then the petulant attempt at a angled stamp.

Totally lost his head. Probably knows he's in for headlines and he's in trouble.

Red cars might have been a blessing just to make sure he was our of the team.

Yup

https://streamable.com/i6up

This link is great. As bad as anyone else played today there is no way you could put a video together as woeful as that. No fücking way.

DM_7

Bring back Daley for a start.

Rooney is not playing well enough to be an automatic starter, his position is very important and it would be good to see someone else getting 3 or 4 games to see if they can do better. A direct replacement or a player like Herrera joining the side makes sense now Rashford is forcing his way in. He will get passed Ibra and that removes one of the key reasons for playing Rooney (that he will try and get beyond Ibra).

It's disappointing to see Herrera not playing more when he started the season well, Daley the same.

Cantona's Collars

http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/why-wont-television-pundits-acknowledge-wayne-rooneys-poor-form/86819

Wayne Rooney had a stinker. He was hardly the only one, and it was far from his worst performance in recent times, but it was poor - very poor. So poor in fact that he was probably the biggest turd in a toilet-load of ****e-fragranced displays.

He gave away cheap possession far too often, slowed down the play by taking numerous touches to properly control the ball, and basically got in the way. He offered nothing much positive and was very noticeably off-form.

Except the pundits in the studio didn't seem to notice, and they rarely do. It has been the same for a while now: the majority of fans call out Rooney for his often sub-standard displays, and yet this is not reflected in televised opinions.

Of course, some fans have blinkered views and won't have a bad word said about any of their players ever, but there are plenty of Manchester United supporters that are shouting from the rooftops that the captain needs to be dropped.

It is partly because they can see with their own eyes that he's not playing well, and partly because they look at the team as a whole, and specifically at potential match-winners, and decry the fact that Rooney is hindering them.

Cantona's Collars

DM_7 wrote: »

Bring back Daley for a start.

Rooney is not playing well enough to be an automatic starter, his position is very important and it would be good to see someone else getting 3 or 4 games to see if they can do better. A direct replacement or a player like Herrera joining the side makes sense now Rashford is forcing his way in. He will get passed Ibra and that removes one of the key reasons for playing Rooney (that he will try and get beyond Ibra).

It's disappointing to see Herrera not playing more when he started the season well, Daley the same.

Blind is always calm and can play a pass,Smalling and Bailly are too similar.At times,Smalling wouldn't look out of place in Croke Park.Pulling and hauling other players or trying to swap jerseys mid match.
Look back at our best CB pairings. One warrior and one calm,ball player who knew exactly where to be and how to play out from the back.

Rayne Wooney

If you drew a box with the top starting about 25 yards from the opposition goal, going to each touch line and with the bottom about 10 yards into our half you'd have a picture of where Rooney operates these days. Yes he offers a lot of running in that box, and a lot of simple passes but the work he does is just insignificant when you look at the bigger picture. He offers no invention for me, and given his free role in a 4231 the creativity of the team is on his shoulders. We're using Pogba as a holding midfielder ffs.

You could see at the start of the second half Jose told Rooney to stay up top, but after about 10 minutes he reverted back to playing deeper.

When Jose joined I had great hope that Rooney would play up front again, but signing Ibra obviously threw a spanner in the works as I think he is still a better option than Rooney there. But both of them on the pitch doesn't work. Jose ultimately gets the blame for this because he picks the team, but Van Gaal and Moyes played him too and it's really starting to look like he has the club by the dangly bits somehow with regard to playing time.

It might be tinfoil hat stuff but when you have opposing fans amazed he gets a game you know something is up.