Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

justshane

Pro. F wrote: »

There is no reason for me not to talk about where United should be at. United should be beating minnows like Feyenoord (even taking into consideration the squad rotation). The current reality is that United are struggling, even against minnows like Feyenoord. If that keeps up for a few months then Jose will, rightly, be sacked. Because everybody expects that United should handle minnows like Feyenoord comfortably.

We should be beating them out the gate. And just because our current form is gash, that doesn't stop them being minnows compared to a club like United. We dwarf them in terms of spending power, cost of squad, cost of manager and expectation.

listen to yourself, the reason so many people give united fans a hard time. No way are Feyenoord minnows of European football. A tier below United maybe and nowhere near Barca, Juve ete but minnows ffs

Pro. F

justshane wrote: »

listen to yourself, the reason so many people give united fans a hard time. No way are Feyenoord minnows of European football. A tier below United maybe and nowhere near Barca, Juve ete but minnows ffs

Everything is relative. Feyenoord are giants compared to Port Vale, but minnows compared Barca, Juve, etc. United, given the money being spent, should expect to be up there in that highest tier. United's manager will be sacked if he regular loses to teams like Feyenoord. That shows the expected disparity between the teams. None of this should be controversial.

LuckyLloyd

spiralism wrote: »

There's no fixing this lads. As a club we are just rotten from top to bottom, it's an absolute shambles. Can't wait for this season to end. I hate this ****ing team.

The season's just started! 8 months to go...

Korat

Yesterday was toxic.They'd have lost to Shamrock Rovers playing like that. It's bizarre they could be so bad.

Full presser

Can somebody point out to me where Jose has criticized individual Utd players and named them out because people keep posting it on this forum but I have yet to hear him say it
The whole "Throw the players under the bus narrative"

IamtheWalrus

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Can somebody point out to me where Jose has criticized individual Utd players and named them out because people keep posting it on this forum but I have yet to hear him say it
The whole "Throw the players under the bus narrative"

He singled out Lingard and M**ryan for the previous league game.

Jayop

I'll assume this thread is best ignored for a few days.

sReq | uTeK

Pro. F wrote: »

It is not a different argument. When I referred to Feyenoord as minnows, I meant that relative to where United should be at. Nothing has changed about what I said, only what you thought I meant.

Perhaps you should clearly state it then. On current and past 3 year form you wouldn't put United much ahead of them.

I love the fact how you're asked what needs to happen to get us performing and do the rounds in every player whilst omitting Rooney.

Polo_Mint

- Win - Result turnover from last season
- Win - Didn't play last season
- Lose - Result turnover from last season
:mad: - Lose - Didn't play last season

PL 2015-2016 - Bournemouth v Man U - 2 -1
PL 2016-2017 - Bournemouth v Man U - 1 -3

PL 2015-2016 - Man U v Southampton - 0 -1
PL 2016-2017 - Man U v Southampton - 2 -0

PL 2016-2017 - Hull v Man U - 0 -1

PL 2015-2016 - Man U v Man C - 0 -0
PL 2016-2017 - Man U v Man C - 1 -2

EL 2016-2017 - Feyenoord v Man U - 1-0 :mad:

PL 2015-2016 - Watford v Man U - 1 -2
PL 2016-2017 - Watford v Man U - 3 -1

jaykay74

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

He singled out Lingard and M**ryan for the previous league game.

By name after the game ? Or are you inferring it from the substitutions or vague comments that didn't reference specific players ?

IamtheWalrus

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

He singled out Lingard and M**ryan for the previous league game.

As per jaykay74 post is there a source for this?
I've watched nearly all the interviews and I can't see where he did this.

Comic Book Guy

M!Ck^ wrote: »

As per jaykay74 post is there a source for this?
I've watched nearly all the interviews and I can't see where he did this.

I only heard a bit of his post match press conference this morning and he singled out Luke Shaw for being 20 yards out of position for one of the goals.

IamtheWalrus

M!Ck^ wrote: »

As per jaykay74 post is there a source for this?
I've watched nearly all the interviews and I can't see where he did this.

I may have gotten it wrong and I hope I have.

This isn't great but not stinging I suppose.

http://www.thenational.ae/sport/english-premier-league/mourinho-points-finger-at-mkhitaryan-lingard-blind-and-bailly-after-man-united-derby-loss-they-lost-easy-balls

The_Kew_Tour

I don't think Rooney is done or anything, but he does need to be dropped.

From about the 52nd minute to 67-68 he made a string of basic errors, from over cooking crosses, to simple bad touches, to overweight passes without much pressure.

StringerBell

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

He singled out Lingard and M**ryan for the previous league game.

He didn't actually. I can see why you might think that, its a handy narrative but he actually didn't.

Comic Book Guy

Comic Book Guy wrote: »

I only heard a bit of his post match press conference this morning and he singled out Luke Shaw for being 20 yards out of position for one of the goals.

In the video I posted above.
I see absolutely nothing wrong in what he said.
In-fact he said that it's his job to correct the issues.
Blown way out of proportion but it's an easy narrative to hop on tbh

StringerBell

Exactly, he is breaking it down in terms of the mentality that is in the whole team, speaking of the Kolarov situation where the team backed off instead of pressed, and the same yesterday, he uses that his left back was 25 metres away instead of 5 and then didn't go to press as an example of the mentality. That he has to improve it, he takes ownership of it.

deaddonkey15

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

He singled out Lingard and M**ryan for the previous league game.

He also accepted it was his fault.

bangkok

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

[/b]

Beckham.
Stam.
Keane.
Heinze
I could go on

How's Benteke doing at palace...

My point you ask. They all ****ing do it. They're not going to play players to appease you or I
They're going to play players that they feel best for their system.

but all those players you listed played and were involved in the squad right up until the very end before they were sold. Uniteds team spirit under ferguson was unbreakable. i highly doubt he would have treated bastian the way he is being treated now. we could actually do with him in the team

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

He's been one of our best players this season, so not bizarre at all.

doesnt say much for our midfield though does it. Pogba has been poor, who else has played there consistently?? Fellaini is fine at breaking up play and stopping the other team play, but Man Utd is much more than that. It should be the other teams trying to stop us play. His positioning for capoue goal yesterday was awful

Pro. F

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Perhaps you should clearly state it then. On current and past 3 year form you wouldn't put United much ahead of them.

I did clearly state it. When sankratz took issue with my use of the word minnows I clarified what I meant:
"The strongest team in the Eredivisie are minnows compared to where United should be at. We were gash last season too and LVG was rightly sacked because of it."

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I love the fact how you're asked what needs to happen to get us performing and do the rounds in every player whisky omitting Rooney.

That is not true. The only players (positions actually) that I specifically mentioned were the defence and the wide midfielders.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

doesnt say much for our midfield though does it. Pogba has been poor, who else has played there consistently??

Ugh, that is a different argument. It's not bizarre to start one of the players who has been your best so far, which is what Fellaini has been.

If you think the best hasn't been good enough or that some other players deserve a chance then fine. But that doesn't make picking Fellaini bizarre, which is what MD said and I was arguing against.

bangkok wrote: »

Fellaini is fine at breaking up play and stopping the other team play, but Man Utd is much more than that. It should be the other teams trying to stop us play. His positioning for capoue goal yesterday was awful

Fellaini is good at a lot more than just breaking up the opposition play.

The defensive positioning of the entire front six hasn't been good enough. Fellaini was getting dragged all over the place because of it.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Ugh, that is a different argument. It's not bizarre to start one of the players who has been your best so far, which is what Fellaini has been.

If you think the best hasn't been good enough or that some other players deserve a chance then fine. But that doesn't make picking Fellaini bizarre, which is what MD said and I was arguing against.



Fellaini is good at a lot more than just breaking up the opposition play.

The defensive positioning of the entire front six hasn't been good enough. Fellaini was getting dragged all over the place because of it.

if he had of been on capoue where he should have been, they wouldnt have scored. it was extremely poor from an experienced player

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

if he had of been on capoue where he should have been, they wouldnt have scored. it was extremely poor from an experienced player

He was filling in in the back-line for Smalling who had had to go out wide once Martial had been beaten. That's what the DM should be doing. The reason there was so much space for Capoue was because too many of our front six and the left-back had committed forward before we had properly secured the ball.

crkball6

bangkok wrote: »

if he had of been on capoue where he should have been, they wouldnt have scored. it was extremely poor from an experienced player

Your view is too simplistic and just shows a lack of basic understanding. watch it again.

Maro is out of position because of other people been out of position. This is an overall lack of understanding / communication from a number of players. Maro had to follow the run because of the area the attack was in.

You need to stop letting commentators telling you what's happening and start watching what's happening.

Maro was immense yesterday. Robbie Savage stated he'd won nothing when 60 seconds before that he'd won two decisive headers in very dangerous areas. In fact Maro was one of few people who could walk off the pitch yesterday known he'd put in a shift which could not be said for many others.

Korat

Who gave away the penalty at the end?

TheDoc

Whilst there is a certain aspect of "it needs time" it's extremely unfortunate for Mourinho how quickly Guardiola has taken a squad of bottlers and under performers from last season and made them look the standout victors of this season already.

There simply isn't the patience and time. And I'm sure Jose knows this also. There isn't time for youngsters who arn't up to scratch, there isn't time to redeploy players and reshape their positions. This next two seasons needs to be all about winning again, to re-assert ourselves so this rot doesn't continue any longer.

I'm already raising eyebrows at Mourinho, and it's mainly around the Rooney issue.

I really need, and we really need the old Jose back ASAP. I sincerely hope his Chelsea foray hasn't damaged him. I love this piece from F365 as it's exactly what I'm feeling at the moment

Mourinho needs to plug into his 2004/2005 mentality and get hard, really bloody hard. Drop all the useless puddings, whoever they are, whatever their commercial heft is, and start playing players in their best positions. Get bloody serious. Because if he doesn’t get serious and get serious soon, this is all only going to end one way, and that way is badly. And quickly.

This is a world class manager, with premier league experience and titles. It shouldn't be a challenge for him to get this team firing in some shape or form. Unless Van Gaal has assembled one of the worst squads in our clubs history, but on paper and from what I believe, that is not the case what so ever.

Another big chance for some players on Thursday to stake a claim. Martial's spot is very much up to frabs, and I hope Memphis takes it. What's to lose at this stage.

I wouldn't be averse to Mourinho keeping Pogba in the team to get a performance out of him. Have Blind hold the base of a midfield three and then let Herrera and Pogba operate in front. Memphis on the left, Mata on the right, Martial up front. PLAY....MARTIAL....UP......FRONT

TheDoc

Korat wrote: »

Who gave away the penalty at the end?

Fellaini. A soft penalty after Bailly made a bags of it twice, Valencia was nowhere to be seen, and I don't know what Smalling was doing.

Are you relating Fellaini giving away a penalty as a link to criticising his play? He's made an excellent start to this season

And if he is as bad or doesn't deserve his spot as people claim, then Schneiderlan and Herrera and Blind are busted flushes and shouldn't be at the club. If Fellaini is so poor, that they cannot dislodge him.

crkball6

Korat wrote: »

Who gave away the penalty at the end?

again too simplistic.

Maro did and was in that position again because of the mistakes of others.

Pro. F

Korat wrote: »

Who gave away the penalty at the end?

Fellaini, obviously. I said already that the way he started racking up frees and the penalty against towards the end of the game wasn't good enough. But even with that he has still been one of our best players so far this season and so him getting a start is not bizarre, as MD1990 called it.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Another big chance for some players on Thursday to stake a claim.

It's Wednesday, thankfully. Then Leicester on Saturday noon.

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

Fellaini, obviously. I said already that the way he started racking up frees and the penalty against towards the end of the game wasn't good enough. But even with that he has still been one of our best players so far this season and so him getting a start is not bizarre, as MD1990 called it.

Him, Blind, Shaw and Ibra have been the highlights this season so far.

I want more gametime for Mata and Martial & Rooney to improve.

Pogba will come good I'm sure of it

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Fellaini. A soft penalty after Bailly made a bags of it twice, Valencia was nowhere to be seen, and I don't know what Smalling was doing.

Are you relating Fellaini giving away a penalty as a link to criticising his play? He's made an excellent start to this season

And if he is as bad or doesn't deserve his spot as people claim, then Schneiderlan and Herrera and Blind are busted flushes and shouldn't be at the club. If Fellaini is so poor, that they cannot dislodge him.

maybe because he was substituted 30mins before hand..

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

He was filling in in the back-line for Smalling who had had to go out wide once Martial had been beaten. That's what the DM should be doing. The reason there was so much space for Capoue was because too many of our front six and the left-back had committed forward before we had properly secured the ball.

there was no need for him to go in there, he was marking nobody, Bailly had igahlo, valencia had deeney, fellaini wasnt aware capoue was behind him, it was very poor from him

DM_7

bangkok wrote: »

there was no need for him to go in there, he was marking nobody, Bailly had igahlo, valencia had deeney, fellaini wasnt aware capoue was behind him, it was very poor from him

You do realise Fellaini is under instruction to get back into the defensive line for headers?

Its a weakness when he is under that instruction, one other teams will exploit unless another player with defensive responsibilities is added to midfield or he is no longer assigned that task.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

there was no need for him to go in there, he was marking nobody, Bailly had igahlo, valencia had deeney, fellaini wasnt aware capoue was behind him, it was very poor from him

He doesn't need to be marking anybody. When one of the CBs goes wide and the ball is wide it is normal for the DM to drop into the line, regardless of whether there is a player to be marked or not. Fellaini is actually tracking Ighalo early in his run, but then continues into the back-line when Ighalo peals off towards the near post, as he should. If Fellaini had not dropped into the back-line then it would have been two-on-two right in front of the goal when the ball came in - that is not acceptable.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

He doesn't need to be marking anybody. When one of the CBs goes wide and the ball is wide it is normal for the DM to drop into the line, regardless of whether there is a player to be marked or not. Fellaini is actually tracking Ighalo early in his run, but then continues into the back-line when Ighalo peals off towards the near post, as he should. If Fellaini had not dropped into the back-line then it would have been two-on-two right in front of the goal when the ball came in - that is not acceptable.

2 on 2 is better than nobody on 1 at the edge of the box. that is basic defending

Korat

I think Fellaini has been one of the better players this season he's a lot more effective than he been since he was signed but..

...he's still a liability. He gives away too many free kicks and though the penalty didn't decide the game he's always capable of doing something like that. He elbowed another player in the head yesterday a different ref could have sent him off for it.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

2 on 2 is better than nobody on 1 at the edge of the box. that is basic defending

Basic defending says that you get numerical superiority in the back-line and cover the front, middle and back of the goal and then the rest of the team filters back to pick up the opposition players who are standing off that.

sReq | uTeK

Pro. F wrote: »

I did clearly state it. When sankratz took issue with my use of the word minnows I clarified what I meant:
"The strongest team in the Eredivisie are minnows compared to where United should be at. We were gash last season too and LVG was rightly sacked because of it."



That is not true. The only players (positions actually) that I specifically mentioned were the defence and the wide midfielders.

Fair enough point 1 my bad.

Point two you're side stepping, if you still believe that Rooney should be starting on present form and past form as you like to point out then thats just delusional

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Basic defending says that you get numerical superiority in the back-line and cover the front, middle and back of the goal and then the rest of the team filters back to pick up the opposition players who are standing off that.

but in the situation yesterday where martial was fouled in the build up, fellaini should have been on capoue and goal would have been avoided. numerical superiority yes in normal play but when you are caught out like we were yesterday fellaini should have been on capoue and he left him free 18 yards out in front of our goal

Pro. F

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Point two you're side stepping, if you still believe that Rooney should be starting on present form and past form as you like to point out then thats just delusional

You claimed that I did the rounds on every player omitting Rooney. That was not true. There is no side stepping here. You made a claim about what I had said which was untrue.

sReq | uTeK

Pro. F wrote: »

He was filling in in the back-line for Smalling who had had to go out wide once Martial had been beaten. That's what the DM should be doing. The reason there was so much space for Capoue was because too many of our front six and the left-back had committed forward before we had properly secured the ball.

Yup 100% correct, the moment Martial got the ball there was about 5 players BOMBING forward before we secured the possession. If anything Fellani was the only one with the guile to hold back a little and see how the play developed, it showed his experience, not lack of it.

I do still believe that the way forward in the game is for quick, mobile players who can get around the pitch quickly and still play the correct forward pass when needed. aka Kante.

I honestly believe that Herreria and Fellani/Morgan would be significantly better with Pogba in Rooneys roll or a little bit deeper and let loose.

sReq | uTeK

Pro. F wrote: »

You claimed that I did the rounds on every player omitting Rooney. That was not true. There is no side stepping here. You made a claim about what I had said which was untrue.

Okay, fair point, I'll admit you're right on that.

However, care to elaborate on how you feel Rooney is doing in this team and if we have the potential to be better with him out of it.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

but in the situation yesterday where martial was fouled in the build up, fellaini should have been on capoue and goal would have been avoided. numerical superiority yes in normal play but when you are caught out like we were yesterday fellaini should have been on capoue and he left him free 18 yards out in front of our goal

It was four on four including Capou and Janmaat (who crossed it). As you say we were caught out (it just being after a set-piece and too many of the front six having broken forward) - given that, there was no reason that Fellaini should have been on Capoue any more than any of the other four defenders. Smalling had gone to try and stop the cross. Valencia was at the back trying to stop Deeney from scoring. Bailly and Fellaini were near the front post. Ighalo made a run off the pair of them that drew both of their eyes, and goal face still needed a defender in it.

Blaming Fell for that goal, instead of the overall defencesive organisation, is wrong.

Pro. F

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Okay, fair point, I'll admit you're right on that.

However, care to elaborate on how you feel Rooney is doing in this team and if we have the potential to be better with him out of it.

Fair play.

I think he tanked early in the second half yesterday and I would have subbed him then. Although, to be fair to Jose, he had already been forced into a sub with Martial and, in the second half, he only subbed attackers on for defenders. So you can see his logic.

Up until that second half yesterday I think Rooney has very much been a net positive and - along with Ibra, Fell and Pogba - has been one of our best players. I think the wide players have been a huge problem (Rashford might well be the fix for one side) in that front six.

Would we do better without Rooney? I think if Herrera came in (or maybe Carrick) to that CM and Pogba pushed up to number 10, that might work. We would maybe get a better base of possession and defensive shape and Pogba might play well in that #10 role. Pogba didn't play at #10 behind a single striker at Juve, and Hererra and Fellaini are relatively untested as a pair, so we'd have to see how it all worked out.

Overall, I think that could work, but I'm not overly convinced by it. And I think the overall problems in the team run a good bit deeper than that proposed fix would address.

TitianGerm

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Perhaps you should clearly state it then. On current and past 3 year form you wouldn't put United much ahead of them.

I know you mentioned form over the last three years but in fairness he is right. Feynoord are minnows compared to United.

If they were in the PL they would be a bottom half club at best.

Rayne Wooney

Seems to be a case of Murphy's law with us, everything seems to be going wrong.

The players even look unfit two months into the season.

markc91

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Seems to be a case of Murphy's law with us, everything seems to be going wrong.

The players even look unfit two months into the season.

Speaking of looking unfit...http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/manchester-united-have-covered-less-ground-than-any-other-premier-league-team-this-season/86911