Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

bangkok

Few papers saying some of the players are unhappy with how Jose has treated shaw at Watford game and then in the press conference after the game..

tayto lover

bangkok wrote: »

Few papers saying some of the players are unhappy with how Jose has treated shaw at Watford game and then in the press conference after the game..

That man has no class.
It's always someone else's fault, never his.

Simon Stone BBC

Apparently Luke Shaw has a long-standing groin injury, and will be going for a scan on it in the coming days.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37408252

Simon Stone BBC wrote:

Manchester United and England defender Luke Shaw will have a scan on a long-standing groin injury.


Shaw played 85 minutes of Sunday's 3-1 defeat by Watford, after which he was criticised by manager Jose Mourinho.


The Portuguese said the 21-year-old, who returned at the start of the season after breaking his leg last September, was too far away from Nordin Amrabat in the build-up to Watford's second goal.


Shaw has started all five of United's Premier League games so far.
The Red Devils, who have lost their past three matches, play League One side Northampton at Sixfields in the third round of the EFL Cup on Wednesday.

If it's long-standing and he has been playing through it, I'm not sure if the scan will affect his availability for selection this week. Then again, I saw another report elsewhere saying that he was feeling the effects of the injury going into the match against Watford.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

Few papers saying some of the players are unhappy with how Jose has treated shaw at Watford game and then in the press conference after the game..

I don't believe headlines from the rags, but you know what, if it is true the players can go **** themselves. After the crap they have served up for 3 years for them to be "unhappy" about the mildest of criticism is pure bullcrud. Maybe they should grow a collective set of balls and start being unhappy with each others performances, maybe we could get somewhere.

TheDoc

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't believe headlines from the rags, but you know what, if it is true the players can go **** themselves. After the crap they have served up for 3 years for them to be "unhappy" about the mildest of criticism is pure bullcrud. Maybe they should grow a collective set of balls and start being unhappy with each others performances, maybe we could get somewhere.

I actually heard the clip on Second Captains today. If anything it was a thinly veiled dig at Van Gaal, as he mentioned the players need to learn his methods, unlearn what they were taught and then it will become second nature.

If they did get upset about it I'd agree with Mourinho about questioning the mental fortitude of some of these players to play for United.

kippy

bangkok wrote: »

Few papers saying some of the players are unhappy with how Jose has treated shaw at Watford game and then in the press conference after the game..

I cant believe that anyone is surprised at Mourinhos behavior at this stage. Not in the door a wet week and he is already at his antics.

Pro. F

~Rebel~ wrote: »

It's not the old 10 role he played in where he was off the shoulder of the 9, ready for quick one-twos to break through the lines. It looks a bit more like the midfield role Lallana has at Liverpool right now...a more withdrawn 10, leaving a distinction between the attacking trio and the midfield trio. Getting up in support around the edge of the box, but far far from second striker territory. (Though Rooney looks a little more withdrawn than Lallana positionally)

Here's his heatmap from the weekend;

You're right, he wasn't a second striker (or 9-and-a-half in the terms Jose used). But to say that he was withdrawn, leaving a distinction from the attacking three is completely wrong.

If you compare Rooney's heat map to the other players in the team you see that Rooney was one of the most advanced four on the pitch. There was not distinct forward and midfield threes. This is important. There was actually four advanced players: CF Ibra; 10 Rooney; wide Rashford and other wing was Martial, Young or Mata at various stages. Rooney was mostly the third most advanced out of those four roles, but it was extremely close between all three behind Ibra. Then Pogba and Fellaini were the two CMs (distinctly deeper again), with Pobga getting forward more and Fellaini holding. This is Jose's normal set-up.

There's no point comparing it to Liverpool's players because the set-up and tactics are completely different. Liverpool are actually playing with three forwards and three midfielders. United are not.

Cantona's Collars

The morning papers saying Jones will be sold in January and £10 million is the value on him.
Some papers saying Jose won't be getting funds to sign anyone and more saying Isco is a target for £25 million.

Nalz

"but it was extremely close between all three behind Ibra"

To be honest I thought Rooney seemed the deepest out of the four. Maybe it's due to the wayward passes I remember him playing which were mostly in front of Uniteds back 4

Rayne Wooney

Rooney had 7 touches within 30 yards of Watford's goal in 90 minutes. I just don't see what we gain from that, he is a man who needs to be in and directly around the box for me.

If you compare that to Ozil against Southampton or KDB against Bournemouth they have multiples of that amount and are a genuine threat.

He just doesn't do an effective job as a number 10 imo and I think we would be better playing Pogba there with Herrera and Fellaini behind if Jose needs to stick to his usual blueprint.

kippy

kippy wrote: »

I cant believe that anyone is surprised at Mourinhos behavior at this stage. Not in the door a wet week and he is already at his antics.

It's ridiculous Joe. It needs to stop or next thing, a Manchester United manager will be kicking a football boot off the ground towards a players face, and we can't be having that at our club. Worse still, some of these players might let some of this criticism sink in and realise that they aren't the finished article. What then? Jose needs to stop or be stopped with these antics.

Giggsy11

tayto lover wrote: »

That man has no class.
It's always someone else's fault, never his.

And the clueless are out with knives. Did you even watch any of his press conferences? He said many times that it's his mistake too.

Anyways not surprising from Wenger boys though, you lot are obsessed with Jose that you will fall for any tabloid headlines. Talking about class, easy to forget how Wenger was when he was in the mix for league title in last 90s and early 00s. Always moaning about other clubs.

Pro. F

Nalz wrote: »

"but it was extremely close between all three behind Ibra"

To be honest I thought Rooney seemed the deepest out of the four. Maybe it's due to the wayward passes I remember him playing which were mostly in front of Uniteds back 4

You are remembering wrong. You can check the heat maps for yourself on Squawka.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Rooney had 7 touches within 30 yards of Watford's goal in 90 minutes. I just don't see what we gain from that, he is a man who needs to be in and directly around the box for me.

If you compare that to Ozil against Southampton or KDB against Bournemouth they have multiples of that amount and are a genuine threat.

He just doesn't do an effective job as a number 10 imo and I think we would be better playing Pogba there with Herrera and Fellaini behind if Jose needs to stick to his usual blueprint.

Where are you getting these numbers from? I'd like to look at them. Really you should compare them in more than one set of fixtures and to more than just two players.

ShooterSF

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't believe headlines from the rags, but you know what, if it is true the players can go **** themselves. After the crap they have served up for 3 years for them to be "unhappy" about the mildest of criticism is pure bullcrud. Maybe they should grow a collective set of balls and start being unhappy with each others performances, maybe we could get somewhere.

I'd hope the players can take criticism but I'd prefer it doled out behind closed doors. It's a characteristic trait of Jose's I never liked. Then again people are really losing their sh*t after 5 league games and a match in a cup I'd rather field our kids and let them see how they get on in.

Korat

bangkok wrote: »

Few papers saying some of the players are unhappy with how Jose has treated shaw at Watford game and then in the press conference after the game..

I wonder who's feeding that to the press.

PhlegmyMoses

Korat wrote: »

I wonder who's feeding that to the press.

If people are thinking its Rooney, I can't think why that would be. On the surface, he is treating Rooney maybe better than he deserves.

I would be highly surprised if this story was true, let alone it being Rooney who leaked it.

Korat

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Korat wrote: »

I wonder who's feeding that to the press.

If people are thinking its Rooney, I can't think why that would be. On the surface, he is treating Rooney maybe better than he deserves.

I would be highly surprised if this story was true, let alone it being Rooney who leaked it.

It's obviously come from Rooney or his publicist. He's being slaughtered in press and by the fans, the easiest way to change the focus of the anger is to leak something about the manager. I've no doubt he did the same with LVG.

He probably feels justified in doing it as retaliation for Mourinho's comment that some players couldn't handle the pressure or responsibility. Even Rooney could work out that was referring to him.

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

Where are you getting these numbers from? I'd like to look at them. Really you should compare them in more than one set of fixtures and to more than just two players.

Whoscored.com if you click on chalkboard then touches.

Strong rumors that Rooney is going to be dropped for Saturdays game
First Massive call Jose needs to make IMO

Giggsy11

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Strong rumors that Rooney is going to be dropped for Saturdays game
First Massive call Jose needs to make IMO

According to the sun...

Apart from then no one is reporting and the papers that report are using Sun as the source.

Mantis Toboggan

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Strong rumors that Rooney is going to be dropped for Saturdays game
First Massive call Jose needs to make IMO

From where?

DARK-KNIGHT

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Strong rumors that Rooney is going to be dropped for Saturdays game
First Massive call Jose needs to make IMO

Desperately needs to happen

No more protecting Rodney's club image or legacy he simply is not good enough

Lord TSC

Giggsy11 wrote: »

According to the sun...

Apart from then no one is reporting and the papers that report are using Sun as the source.

You'll see the likes of them trying to report it now to look like they are ITK. It's a very obvious decision to make, so they can say it now and if it happens, they look like they had inside sources. Be like me saying "Inside sources say De Gea will start at the weekend".

Giggsy11

Giggsy11 wrote: »

According to the sun...

Apart from then no one is reporting and the papers that report are using Sun as the source.

Tyson Fury wrote: »

From where?

Giggsy11 could be correct, although I had not spotted that it was The Sun.
Multiple links on Twitter

larchielads

Ah lads relax in here would ye!! there's only a couple of games gone,not a couple of games left!

Giggsy11

Lord TSC wrote: »

You'll see the likes of them trying to report it now to look like they are ITK. It's a very obvious decision to make, so they can say it now and if it happens, they look like they had inside sources. Be like me saying "Inside sources say De Gea will start at the weekend".

Yeah is very likely scenario. At least it's good media are reporting many stories questioning his place.

Giggsy11

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Giggsy11 could be correct, although I had not spotted that it was The Sun.
Multiple links on Twitter

In the football365 link you posted it was mentioned.

Manutd_4life

https://twitter.com/anthonymartial/status/778126794302054400

Good to see but his form atm is stupid bad!! Can't see him lasting at the club if he continues like this

Giggsy11

Giggsy11 wrote: »

In the football365 link you posted it was mentioned.

yes, my bad

KH25

Manutd_4life wrote: »

https://twitter.com/anthonymartial/status/778126794302054400

Good to see but his form atm is stupid bad!! Can't see him lasting at the club if he continues like this

Bit dramatic! It's just a slump. Happens to a lot of players.

Not the first time the Martial wont last thing has been posted...
He's 20.
He's so talented and has huge potential.
But he needs time to develop and improve.
He was always going to have a slump.
It's Jose & the backroom staffs job to encourage and continue his development.
A bit of calm perhaps?

Mantis Toboggan

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Not the first time the Martial wont last thing has been posted...
He's 20.
He's so talented and has huge potential.
But he needs time to develop and improve.
He was always going to have a slump.
It's Jose & the backroom staffs job to encourage and continue his development.
A bit of calm perhaps?

Januzaj

brinty

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Januzaj

Martial showed it over a season with United and a couple of seasons with Monaco including in the champions league

Janujaz had a handful of good games for us

Hardly the same

Mantis Toboggan

brinty wrote: »

Martial showed it over a season with United and a couple of seasons with Monaco including in the champions league

Janujaz had a handful of good games for us

Hardly the same

Possibly, but that's not to say that he could go the same way as Adnan, who was one of the best young players in the world at one stage.

tossy

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Possibly, but that's not to say that he could go the same way as Adnan, who was one of the best young players in the world at one stage.

Was he ? What world ? He was overrated - mostly by us ( united fans).

Cantona's Collars

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Possibly, but that's not to say that he could go the same way as Adnan, who was one of the best young players in the world at one stage.

I've a feeling the off field carry on with him and some "I wanna be famous no matter what" woman and then his wife leaving him has affected him.He just doesn't look like he has his head in the games he's played lately since all that came out.

jaykay74

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Possibly, but that's not to say that he could go the same way as Adnan, who was one of the best young players in the world at one stage.

:eek:

Did he ever venture out of the decent prospect stage ?

TheDoc

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Strong rumors that Rooney is going to be dropped for Saturdays game
First Massive call Jose needs to make IMO

They had the gawl to label it an exclusive.

It's no obvious at this point if he's not dropped its total negligence.


In truth, I think I saw that on Twitter this morning and its by Neil Ashton. He has no ties into the club and no real inside tracks and can be a bit speculative with his "exclusives". It's a bit brazen to make that call way ahead of before the team will be properly picked by Mourinho himself.

TheDoc

Januzaj was never one of the best young players in the world. That is lapping up United PR that came from the manager, players and former players. He got some inflated worth from his international declaration, but there has been very little to indicate he would be good enough for our first team.

Very much a case of shining light in a dark season.

Mitch Connor

whatever about the arguments on Rooney in terms of his play - I think the United side, in general, has looked unbalanced, and that is what needs to be fixed.

Mourinho needs to decide on a formation and play style, and then pick the players that are best for that. Whether that means dropping Rooney, Ibrahimovic, Martial, I don't care.

Get a working 11 on the pitch and then let players fight for places on form - nothing else.

For all the crap I have given Rooney over the seasons, at this point, Martial has been rubbish so far this season and doesn't deserve to start either. Ibrahimovic has been disapointing last couple of games too - very poor on Sunday imo.

---

De Gea
Valencia

---

Bailly----Blind----Shaw

---

Schneiderlin--Fellaini

---

Pogba
Mata

---

Rashford

---

Rooney/Ibra

That is how I would go, for the moment.

v3ttel

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Good to see but his form atm is stupid bad!! Can't see him lasting at the club if he continues like this

This shows how ridiculous modern football fans are.

The lad is 20.

No 20 year old (bar Ronaldo/Messi) is going to play well consistently for their entire career without a dip in form.

He was our only glimmer of hope in an attacking sense last year.

He has a huge amount of potential.

There is nobody else in our squad who have proven themselves to be close to the level he reached on the LW last year.

We're FOUR games into a new Premier League season and you "can't see him lasting at the club". I mean, good Jesus......WTF?

The world is gone mad.

beno619

v3ttel wrote: »

This shows how ridiculous modern football fans are.

The lad is 20.

No 20 year old (bar Ronaldo/Messi) is going to play well consistently for their entire career without a dip in form.

And Ronaldo was a pretty frustrating player to watch at 20.

Rayne Wooney

Martial made last season far less embarrassing that it should have been. Practically carried us near the end and was a huge part in the cup win.

The best young talent in the league for me on his day, hopefully he can get his form back.

TheDoc

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Martial made last season far less embarrassing that it should have been. Practically carried us near the end and was a huge part in the cup win.

The best young talent in the league for me on his day, hopefully he can get his form back.

Was really always going to suffer issues in his second season. Should be no surprise to anyone.

And that's fine, I'm not concerned with what Martial is doing at 20. I'm concerned with what he will be doing at 24-29, and hopefully its with us, and hopefully it's up front.

For all the talk about Rashford this season, it's Martial I see being our main striker for the years to come, not Rashford.

Fully expect Martial to be out of the team tomorrow and at the weekend. And that's fine. He's has had good game time, played poorly and needs withdrawing/resting. Bring him back into the team once confidence is restored and the team is winning again.

Expecting to see Memphis start on the left tomorrow, Young/Lingard on the right Zlatan/Rooney or Rashford up front. Feel it will be a 4-3-3 considering the opposition and needing to really force the team firing. I'd be pretty annoyed to see 4-2-3-1. Mourinho needs to take some risks and stop being so concerned about how we stop the opposition.

Wouldn't be overly annoyed to see Rooney start up front With the thinking that a)He will want to put in a performance to silence some critics and b)He could lash a good few goals and build some confidence back and maybe get a spark.

So while it's unlikely to happen, but I could see it "maybe" happening, I wouldn't be overly annoyed to see Rooney start up front.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Feel it will be a 4-3-3 considering the opposition and needing to really force the team firing. I'd be pretty annoyed to see 4-2-3-1. Mourinho needs to take some risks and stop being so concerned about how we stop the opposition.

4231 is in no way more of a defensive formation than 433. We started with Martial, Ibra, Rooney and Rashford in the same team on Saturday. Jose has clearly not been overly concerned with how we stop the opposition recently.

sky88

I think the problem we are having in the last 3 games is that there is just too many of the top players not performing. Martial, rooney have been terrible all season. Zlatan has been bad since the start obviously the goals have masked that somewhat but his play in general has been poor.

Pogba if your going to play him in a 2 i dont think fellani who has actually played well is the man to be beside but im not sure we have the player to make that work.

Martial showed last season that he's so much more than a Macheda or even a Januzaj, so I'm not overly worried about him. I'm not wholly sure what's going on with him on the pitch lately, but hopefully it's just temporary. Going on the ability he showed consistently last season, I'm sure it is just temporary and not that he had a fluke season.

It has to be remembered though that the boy (at 20, he is still that in the grand scheme of things) is going through a shít-fest of a break-up where there's a child caught in the middle. I don't usually give a hoot about players' private lives, but I clicked into a couple of articles on the United reddit about a month ago and some of the stuff being reported painted a messy picture. I'm not talking about mere press speculation and conjecture, I'm talking about an actual Twitter shít-flinging contest between Martial/his brother and the ex-girlfriend. One of the tweets Martial himself sent came out about 30 minutes after a United game he played in and played poorly, think it was the Hull game.

Anyway, there's no way his head can be anywhere near 100% focused on his football with all of that shíte going on in his personal life. Sending that tweet only minutes after a football match, this stuff must have been itching at him during the match. In case someone is thinking about replying "Well for £100k a week, he should be able to focus no problem" - Fúck off, you're an idiot who knows nothing about how the mind or even real life works, same as that sarky guy who proposed that a likely-crocked Phil Jones shouldn't be feeling too glum about his life because he's still picking up a paycheck. Money is not everything, even more so when your job is also your life's passion.

Any of you ever have a row with the OH before you left for work? Throughout your day/night's work it keeps coming back to you. What you said, what you should have said, what they said, what you're going to say once you get home, how are you going to patch it up, can it be patched up? The pay-grade may change, extremely, but the human mind remains the same. I really believe that Martial just has too much going on off-the-field at the moment for him to concentrate solely on the game he is playing. I haven't seen any new headlines on the United reddit in the last few weeks, nor have I gone searching elsewhere for an update on Martial's personal life so I don't know if shít is still being thrown on Twitter.

There's a bit of weight in Sir Alex's old 'I prefer my players married with children, it keeps them settled and centred' mentality. Not in all cases, but I think in Martial's situation he is a much better player when he is not suffering the repercussions of a woman badly scorned. Obviously for the benefit of two young adults and a baby, I hope they get it sorted, but honestly, I want Anthony Martial, The Stallion Who Will Mount The World, back in the team.

alchemist33

Pep has demanded an apology before Yaya Toure gets a game at City again. Will the papers be full of criticism of Pep, treating a club stalwart so badly, alienating a player just like he did with English rose Joe Hart? Will they f*ck, because that doesn't fulfil the narrative the papers are writing. Pep's a gent and Jose's a bully, and anything he says will be magnified, just like all the supposed "throwing under a bus" he's been doing this week, which really has been pretty mild.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/GNev2/status/778185383842545664

https://twitter.com/GNev2/status/778183240620380160

Why,oh why do ex United players who are pally with Rooney keep bringing up sh1t like this to deflect away from the fact that the guy is literally on his last legs at the club.
Neville of all people should know this as he knew to the minute when he was done after being skinned against WBA and not being able to run.