Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

Son Of A Vidic

stankratz wrote: »

Martial showed last season that he's so much more than a Macheda or even a Januzaj, so I'm not overly worried about him. I'm not wholly sure what's going on with him on the pitch lately, but hopefully it's just temporary. Going on the ability he showed consistently last season, I'm sure it is just temporary and not that he had a fluke season.

It has to be remembered though that the boy (at 20, he is still that in the grand scheme of things) is going through a shít-fest of a break-up where there's a child caught in the middle. I don't usually give a hoot about players' private lives, but I clicked into a couple of articles on the United reddit about a month ago and some of the stuff being reported painted a messy picture. I'm not talking about mere press speculation and conjecture, I'm talking about an actual Twitter shít-flinging contest between Martial/his brother and the ex-girlfriend. One of the tweets Martial himself sent came out about 30 minutes after a United game he played in and played poorly, think it was the Hull game.

Anyway, there's no way his head can be anywhere near 100% focused on his football with all of that shíte going on in his personal life. Sending that tweet only minutes after a football match, this stuff must have been itching at him during the match. In case someone is thinking about replying "Well for £100k a week, he should be able to focus no problem" - Fúck off, you're an idiot who knows nothing about how the mind or even real life works, same as that sarky guy who proposed that a likely-crocked Phil Jones shouldn't be feeling too glum about his life because he's still picking up a paycheck. Money is not everything, even more so when your job is also your life's passion.

Any of you ever have a row with the OH before you left for work? Throughout your day/night's work it keeps coming back to you. What you said, what you should have said, what they said, what you're going to say once you get home, how are you going to patch it up, can it be patched up? The pay-grade may change, extremely, but the human mind remains the same. I really believe that Martial just has too much going on off-the-field at the moment for him to concentrate solely on the game he is playing. I haven't seen any new headlines on the United reddit in the last few weeks, nor have I gone searching elsewhere for an update on Martial's personal life so I don't know if shít is still being thrown on Twitter.

There's a bit of weight in Sir Alex's old 'I prefer my players married with children, it keeps them settled and centred' mentality. Not in all cases, but I think in Martial's situation he is a much better player when he is not suffering the repercussions of a woman badly scorned. Obviously for the benefit of two young adults and a baby, I hope they get it sorted, but honestly, I want Anthony Martial, The Stallion Who Will Mount The World, back in the team.

Giggsy11

zerks wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GNev2/status/778185383842545664

https://twitter.com/GNev2/status/778183240620380160

Why,oh why do ex United players who are pally with Rooney keep bringing up sh1t like this to deflect away from the fact that the guy is literally on his last legs at the club.
Neville of all people should know this as he knew to the minute when he was done after being skinned against WBA and not being able to run.

Neville has lost lot of credibility when he just attacked foreign players but not a word on English players.

Cantona's Collars

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Neville has lost lot of credibility when he just attacked foreign players but not a word on English players.

A lot of the lads live in the same area,socialise with each other etc.No wonder they won't criticise them.Imagine Nev tearing into Rooney on MNF and then meeting him on the golf course the next morning.

bucketybuck

alchemist33 wrote: »

Pep has demanded an apology before Yaya Toure gets a game at City again. Will the papers be full of criticism of Pep, treating a club stalwart so badly, alienating a player just like he did with English rose Joe Hart? Will they f*ck, because that doesn't fulfil the narrative the papers are writing. Pep's a gent and Jose's a bully, and anything he says will be magnified, just like all the supposed "throwing under a bus" he's been doing this week, which really has been pretty mild.

Pep won't get criticised because he's winning.

Liam McPoyle

alchemist33 wrote: »

Pep has demanded an apology before Yaya Toure gets a game at City again. Will the papers be full of criticism of Pep, treating a club stalwart so badly, alienating a player just like he did with English rose Joe Hart? Will they f*ck, because that doesn't fulfil the narrative the papers are writing. Pep's a gent and Jose's a bully, and anything he says will be magnified, just like all the supposed "throwing under a bus" he's been doing this week, which really has been pretty mild.

Of course not.

Pep is seen as a "nice guy".

The Jose / Eva gets trotted out with great aplomb but Pep lambasting his medical team while at BM is never mentioned.

José is an easy target and the fact he is with United now sickens many of our PL rivals because they know what a good manager he is.

I've no doubt that we will improve so I'm looking forward to reading back through some of the more gormless posts in the " is Jose done" thread when it happens.

Giggsy11

zerks wrote: »

A lot of the lads live in the same area,socialise with each other etc.No wonder they won't criticise them.Imagine Nev tearing into Rooney on MNF and then meeting him on the golf course the next morning.

They should shut up instead of pushing their agenda.

DARK-KNIGHT

stankratz wrote: »

Martial showed last season that he's so much more than a Macheda or even a Januzaj, so I'm not overly worried about him. I'm not wholly sure what's going on with him on the pitch lately, but hopefully it's just temporary. Going on the ability he showed consistently last season, I'm sure it is just temporary and not that he had a fluke season.

It has to be remembered though that the boy (at 20, he is still that in the grand scheme of things) is going through a shít-fest of a break-up where there's a child caught in the middle. I don't usually give a hoot about players' private lives, but I clicked into a couple of articles on the United reddit about a month ago and some of the stuff being reported painted a messy picture. I'm not talking about mere press speculation and conjecture, I'm talking about an actual Twitter shít-flinging contest between Martial/his brother and the ex-girlfriend. One of the tweets Martial himself sent came out about 30 minutes after a United game he played in and played poorly, think it was the Hull game.

Anyway, there's no way his head can be anywhere near 100% focused on his football with all of that shíte going on in his personal life. Sending that tweet only minutes after a football match, this stuff must have been itching at him during the match. In case someone is thinking about replying "Well for £100k a week, he should be able to focus no problem" - Fúck off, you're an idiot who knows nothing about how the mind or even real life works, same as that sarky guy who proposed that a likely-crocked Phil Jones shouldn't be feeling too glum about his life because he's still picking up a paycheck. Money is not everything, even more so when your job is also your life's passion.

Any of you ever have a row with the OH before you left for work? Throughout your day/night's work it keeps coming back to you. What you said, what you should have said, what they said, what you're going to say once you get home, how are you going to patch it up, can it be patched up? The pay-grade may change, extremely, but the human mind remains the same. I really believe that Martial just has too much going on off-the-field at the moment for him to concentrate solely on the game he is playing. I haven't seen any new headlines on the United reddit in the last few weeks, nor have I gone searching elsewhere for an update on Martial's personal life so I don't know if shít is still being thrown on Twitter.

There's a bit of weight in Sir Alex's old 'I prefer my players married with children, it keeps them settled and centred' mentality. Not in all cases, but I think in Martial's situation he is a much better player when he is not suffering the repercussions of a woman badly scorned. Obviously for the benefit of two young adults and a baby, I hope they get it sorted, but honestly, I want Anthony Martial, The Stallion Who Will Mount The World, back in the team.

Great post

secman

Quote.


José is an easy target and the fact he is with United now sickens many of our PL rivals because they know what a good manager he /quote].



Jose at United sickens a lot of United fans too, and he makes himself a target with his antics and boloxology baggage. Look I love United but I like many just don't like the choice of our current manager and the circus he creates.

Julez

secman wrote: »

Jose at United sickens a lot of United fans too, and he makes himself a target with his antics and boloxology baggage. Look I love United but I like many just don't like the choice of our current manager and the circus he creates.

We're all aware of Joses boloxology in the past, but have we really seen any of it so far with United? All I'm seeing is people blowing things out of proportion right now.

The_Kew_Tour

I think it's time to put up a "Is Martial goosed" thread at this stage.

Leroy42

I love the way that fans critcise a manager for daring to call out a player after a bad performance.

Fans are happy to scream abuse at players whenever they feel like it, but god forbid the manager actually speaks the truth.

Comes across as the MU players just haven't got the mentality to deal with adversity, the 1st sign of trouble and they fold. Instead of getting 'shocked' with Jose, how about Shaw comes out and says
'you know what, we all feel we let the team and the fans down. It's not good enough for MU to be losing to anybody, but to lose in such a fashion is unacceptable. As part of the team I must carry some of the blame. I am going to take the criticism to make me stronger.'

beno619

Pro. F wrote: »

4231 is in no way more of a defensive formation than 433. We started with Martial, Ibra, Rooney and Rashford in the same team on Saturday. Jose has clearly not been overly concerned with how we stop the opposition recently.

I dont get the distinction that we try to make on this thread.

4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 & 4-5-1 are one and the same really.

DM_7

beno619 wrote: »

I dont get the distinction that we try to make on this thread.

4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 & 4-5-1 are one and the same really.

Overall they are similar but they represent differant systems depending on the team you talk about.

For United.

4-3-3 would represent two forwards out wide running off a striker/forward (Martial and Rashford). Two wide players are coming inside a lot. Midfield player is getting forward rather than a forward dropping off the front.

4-5-1 represents one striker up front with a traditional wide player out on the touch line, only coming inside when ball is on opposite wing. Three midfield players with a defensive mindset and positioning (think Champions league away leg).

4-2-3-1 would be with a second striker dropping off the front.

The_Kew_Tour

4-3-3 imo is much more effective if you are playing the more High Pressure game.

Pro. F

beno619 wrote: »

I dont get the distinction that we try to make on this thread.

4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 & 4-5-1 are one and the same really.

Yeah, They're all just names and what one fella will call a 433 another will call 42121 or something.

A distinction that is worth making though is whether or not we are playing with a number 10, or two box-to-box midfielders in front of a DM. Another distinction worth making is how many players we are getting forward and how many attacking players are in the line-up. Jose had Rashford, Rooney, Ibra and Martial all starting on Saturday and all getting forward, so safe to say he has not been overly cautious thus far.

Pro. F

DM_7 wrote: »

4-2-3-1 would be with a second striker dropping off the front.

Would you call Oscar at Chelsea a second striker dropping off the front? I'd just call that a number 10. He's doing the same thing now with United.

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

Would you call Oscar at Chelsea a second striker dropping off the front? I'd just call that a number 10. He's doing the same thing now with United.

No. My post was just some examples of why a small variation in a formation can represent a differant set up. I used the examples given to show the possible variety.

On Rooney, overall he has more responsibility than Oscar to get beyond Ibra than Oscar had at Chelsea to get ahead of the striker. It was one of the reasons I could excuse the selection of Rooney in that role, if he continues to have a role that is more midfield involved than getting in the box then I think he is a poor choice to have that role.

bucketybuck

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I think it's time to put up a "Is Martial goosed" thread at this stage.

I think the comparisons with Januzaj are very apt to be be honest. Not least because people seem to forget that Martial tailed off in the 2nd half of last season so this poor form isn't just a recent development. And yes, Januzaj was hyped in the same way Martial has been and there are no guarantees whatsoever that Martial won't follow the same path. Hell, if not Januzaj then just look at Depay for an example of what could happen. Ripping it up to shitting it up in one season, no mean feat.

Do I think Martial is a busted flush? Who knows, I certainly hope not, but what he is showing is very, very worrying.

The_Kew_Tour

I mentioned yesterday I read a piece back around end July (was actually August 2nd)that Jose seems start very slow at clubs. It was written by Gentleman named Mick Holden who is betting points total ratings expert. This is maybe looking it it from different angle but stats are same.

Anyway here what he said

"Jose doesn't have a good early season record especially away from home. His Chelsea side lost 3 of their 7 matches in August and September last season but the trail of Disappointment stretches much further them that.

In three seasons at Real Madrid, Jose suffered defeats to Levante, Granada and Seville, while other vulnerable points were dropped at short prices against Mallorca, Levante and Racing Santander. In 2 years at Inter he suffered defeats to Milan and Sampdoria.

All told, Jose away record over the last eight years reads W9 D8 L8, an average points of 1.40 per game which is a big drop on the 2.11 points he averages on the road at all times of the year."

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

Another distinction worth making is how many players we are getting forward and how many attacking players are in the line-up. Jose had Rashford, Rooney, Ibra and Martial all starting on Saturday and all getting forward, so safe to say he has not been overly cautious thus far.

Rooney got forward sweet f.a. on Sunday. Thats part of the problem. The other is that we lack attacking pace in the team when we have Fellani, Rooney ,Ibra and Mata when he does play. Its no wonder we have covered much less ground than most of The other teams.
It needs to be Rooney or Ibra up top but not both in the one team

Pro. F

Robson99 wrote: »

Rooney got forward sweet f.a. on Sunday. Thats part of the problem.

Not true.

Robson99 wrote: »

The other is that we lack attacking pace in the team when we have Fellani, Rooney ,Ibra and Mata when he does play. Its no wonder we have covered much less ground than most of The other teams.
It needs to be Rooney or Ibra up top but not both in the one team

I think (and have said it plenty before) that lack of pace could be a problem. Maybe two quick wide players would be enough, maybe not.

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

I think (and have said it plenty before) that lack of pace could be a problem. Maybe two quick wide players would be enough, maybe not.

We have two in Rashford and Martial. Thats not enough.
We need more pace in the middle of the park to get forward and Rooney just dont have it anymore.

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

Not true.

Well going by my eyes and the heat map he was barely in the Watford box. But maybe we are wrong. There no defending him last Sunday - he was puke

Manutd_4life

Leceister have been decent tonight . Not a clue though if we can win though after that tragedy last weekend.

The extra 30 minutes is always nice from our perspective

Liam McPoyle

Manutd_4life wrote: »

Leceister have been decent tonight . Not a clue though if we can win though after that tragedy last weekend.

The extra 30 minutes is always nice from our perspective

Cue us to go to ET tomorrow evening.

:mad:

Manutd_4life

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Cue us to go to ET tomorrow evening.

:mad:

Along with a 1 or 2 injuries

J. Marston

Shaw has a minor groin tear. 50/50 for the Leicester game.

Please start Blind there and not Rojo.

Bleating Lamb

J. Marston wrote: »

Shaw has a minor groin tear. 50/50 for the Leicester game.

Please start Blind there and not Rojo.

Have to say I was unimpressed to see how Jose singled out Shaw for Watfords second goal....something Sir Alex would never do.Reports as well that Shaw has been struggling for weeks with groin injury.
Why not let him get to 100% fitness before starting him in games if that was the case?! CJB did an excellent job at left back a few times last season and could have played first few games of season.

Lord TSC

Ducker has an article up for the Telegraph saying the "players" aren't happy with the singling out of Shaw (which is weird, cause imo the quotes were more about Jose admitting HE had work to do, not the players).

Gary Neville responds...

https://twitter.com/GNev2/status/778339872310525952

https://twitter.com/GNev2/status/778340721958977536

Leaks already after one bad week! Embarrassing!!

(when asked why he's taking the story as true) Absolutely not . However I can sense a piece that's had info passed on and one that's speculative!

Sand

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Have to say I was unimpressed to see how Jose singled out Shaw for Watfords second goal....something Sir Alex would never do.Reports as well that Shaw has been struggling for weeks with groin injury.
Why not let him get to 100% fitness before starting him in games if that was the case?! CJB did an excellent job at left back a few times last season and could have played first few games of season.

Id say he played him because Shaw said he could play, and wanted to play and the medical staff said he could play. I don't think claims of fitness or playing through the pain are good excuse after you've made an error - if the injury was a factor then why weren't you saying you couldn't play?

I don't think Mourinhos comments on Shaw were all that harsh - just an honest observation. Shaw is a grown man, if even the mildest criticism crushes him then he would not have survived in a Ferguson team.

Pro. F

Robson99 wrote: »

We have two in Rashford and Martial. Thats not enough.
We need more pace in the middle of the park to get forward and Rooney just dont have it anymore.

We have four for the two wide positions in Rashford, Martial, Lingard and Young. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that it will end up being Rashford and Martial as the two wide players.

I also wouldn't be so quick to assume that Ibra and Rooney won't work in the centre. And if lack of pace is the problem then Ibra is just as much of an issue as Rooney.

Robson99 wrote: »

Well going by my eyes and the heat map he was barely in the Watford box. But maybe we are wrong. There no defending him last Sunday - he was puke

Well going by my eyes and the heat map he was in the box enough.

Lord TSC

Sand wrote: »

I don't think Mourinhos comments on Shaw were all that harsh - just an honest observation. Shaw is a grown man, if even the mildest criticism crushes him then he would not have survived in a Ferguson team.

To me, the comments read as Jose admitting that he as manager still had work to do. He wasn't calling Shaw "Crap" or anything. He used an example of a player who was still in a mindset that the manager has to get him out of.

But that doesn't suit the narrative of the easy story, I guess...

Rayne Wooney

A player leaking info after a bad week is a frightening development. It seems to be a soap opera at United.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Whoscored.com if you click on chalkboard then touches.

As far as I can see, this just gives a picture of all the touches on the pitch and a total number. So do you just count them up yourself to get how many were within 30 yards of goal? If so, how do you measure it?

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

As far as I can see, this just gives a picture of all the touches on the pitch and a total number. So do you just count them up yourself to get how many were within 30 yards of goal? If so, how do you measure it?

you click on the touches box down at the bottem first then on an individual player at the side to limit it to just their touches

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

you click on the touches box down at the bottem first then on an individual player at the side to limit it to just their touches

Oh yeah, I mean when you have done that, it just gives you a picture of all the touches for that player. Are you just counting them yourself then to see how many are within 30 yards of goal?

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

Oh yeah, I mean when you have done that, it just gives you a picture of all the touches for that player. Are you just counting them yourself then to see how many are within 30 yards of goal?

Yeah I'm assuming the pitch is to scale otherwise it would be a fairly pointless excercise collecting all that data. The average pitch is about 58 yards a half, the 18 yard line and the centre circle being 10 yards at it's furthest point you can guess round about where 30 yards is.

30 yards was just an example, I could probably have made the same point with 40 yards because the games I looked over Ozil and KDB seemed to be operating closer to goal than Rooney was my main point.

Pro. F

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Yeah I'm assuming the pitch is to scale otherwise it would be a fairly pointless excercise collecting all that data. The average pitch is about 58 yards a half, the 18 yard line and the centre circle being 10 yards at it's furthest point you can guess round about where 30 yards is.

Cool, thanks for the explanation. I wanted to check in case there was an easier way you had for doing this, because I find it a lot of work and not that precise. Although just looking at the images is certainly still useful.

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

30 yards was just an example, I could probably have made the same point with 40 yards because the games I looked over Ozil and KDB seemed to be operating closer to goal than Rooney was my main point.

I really think we would need a good bit more than one or two players compared in one or two matches before we can draw useful conclusions on this.

Rayne Wooney

Pro. F wrote: »

Cool, thanks for the explanation. I wanted to check in case there was an easier way you had for doing this, because I find it a lot of work and not that precise. Although just looking at the images is certainly still useful.



I really think we would need a good bit more than one or two players compared in one or two matches before we can draw useful conclusions on this.

Against Watford you could say with some confidence that Rooney only had 8 touches within 30 yards of their goal if you look at that one. You are correct though, 5 or 6 more games and a pattern might emerge. His touch map in the first and third game looked far better than Watford I believe and he got a goal and an assist to show for it.

J. Marston

Bit tired of all the behind the scenes skulduggery when the shít has hit the fan over the last few years. Don't even like Mourinho but I'm all for him swinging the axe at a few of the gossips in the team.

Literally, if needs be.

Rayne Wooney

Jose can axe whoever he likes as far as I'm concerned, we're in the territory now of players having too much power if they can turn on 3 managers.

What are we going to do, keep sacking managers until there's one who won't criticise them for coming 5th? Fergie would have torn their heads off.

Cantona's Collars

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Jose can axe whoever he likes as far as I'm concerned, we're in the territory now of players having too much power if they can turn on 3 managers.

What are we going to do, keep sacking managers until there's one who won't criticise them for coming 5th? Fergie would have torn their heads off.

So whoever has been leaking stuff was around under Fergie according to what was said about Jose to the press,that narrows things down considerably

Rayne Wooney

zerks wrote: »

So whoever has been leaking stuff was around under Fergie according to what was said about Jose to the press,that narrows things down considerably

It would have to be Carrick or Rooney

I can't see anybody else in the dressing room having much clout, they are all relatively new and haven't got the medal haul to question managers like Van Gaal and Mourinho.

Hococop

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It would have to be Carrick or Rooney

I can't see anybody else in the dressing room having much clout, they are all relatively new and haven't got the medal haul to question managers like Van Gaal and Mourinho.

Players from that time,
De gea
Smalling
Jones
Valencia
Young
Carrick
Rooney

Then again could be the media making up more stuff again to sell papers

Cantona's Collars

Hococop wrote: »

Players from that time,
De gea
Smalling
Jones
Valencia
Young
Carrick
Rooney

Then again could be the media making up more stuff again to sell papers

We have had 3 years of leaks to the media.Rooney and his agent have been named before.Only 2 out of that list could be regarded as "senior players" who hold a bit of clout in the dressing room.

bmcc10

Whoever the leak is (Rooney) get the disease out of the club, Soft shower of fcuks.

Hank Scorpio

Neville should keep his gob shut. He's defended Rooney relentlessly lately so put 2 and 2 together. Media attack Rooney, Rooney leaks crap about Mourinho to put pressure on him and has his mate Gary back him up.

Ferguson was right about Rooney towards the end of his tenure to want rid of him. This will be a media sh/tstorm and only harm the team, hopefully Mourinho comes out on top and finally gets rid of this old guard sh/te that still exists at the club.

Unearthly

Hococop wrote: »

Players from that time,
De gea
Smalling
Jones
Valencia
Young
Carrick
Rooney

Then again could be the media making up more stuff again to sell papers

Line them all up and take drops of their blood, and burn the blood to see who it is.

It worked in some film I saw before

duffman13

This was on redcafe from back in July after Jose's first press conference.

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/details-about-leaks-at-united.419544/

It stuck with me for whatever reason and points the finger of blame firmly in Rooneys direction. Worth a quick read but there appears to be a leak inside the club and the club at this stage have to know where it is coming from!

Lord TSC

Lord TSC wrote: »

To me, the comments read as Jose admitting that he as manager still had work to do. He wasn't calling Shaw "Crap" or anything. He used an example of a player who was still in a mindset that the manager has to get him out of.

But that doesn't suit the narrative of the easy story, I guess...

It's amazing how these "leaks" happen with no other club