Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

jayo26

Pro. F wrote: »

He really wasn't. Like this is just completely untrue. I get that people think he isn't good enough, or that the team would be better off with different players in his position, but the criticism is going so far past that.

It's hyperbole to say he is atrocious but I will say a few things .... and I have generally stayed out of the rooney debate but watching him tonight ...... his decision making wasn't the best he smacked the ball into players ankle when attempting a cross and make a few passes.
He was constantly beaten for pace and the Northampton team are not even top class premierleague professionals and again his touch was not great ball did bounce off his legs and shins.

I don't think he is as bad as people are saying but the problem is what united are sacrificing to play him as a number 10 and playing a system that fits him into the team is he giving back enough to the team to make that worthwhile and in my opinion I don't think he is.

RobertKK

Keith from Wilmslow complained about the guests in the MUTV studio for defending Rooney.
Then a bit of a row broke out...MUTV is a bit like boards at the moment.

sky88

jayo26 wrote: »

It's hyperbole to say he is atrocious but I will say a few things .... and I have generally stayed out of the rooney debate but watching him tonight ...... his decision making wasn't the best he smacked the ball into players ankle when attempting a cross and make a few passes.
He was constantly beaten for pace and the Northampton team are not even top class premierleague professionals and again his touch was not great ball did bounce off his legs and shins.

I don't think he is as bad as people are saying but the problem is what united are sacrificing to play him as a number 10 and playing a system that fits him into the team is he giving back enough to the team to make that worthwhile and in my opinion I don't think he is.

I'd agree with you tonight was almost a falcao like performance were he was trying too hard to be good he forgot how to do the easy stuff

deaddonkey15

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Maybe except for you.

There was plenty of examples of bits of interplay around the Northampton box tonight where Rooney successfully controlled the football. To say he no longer has the ability to control a football is just so utterly stupid.

DM_7

sky88 wrote: »

Jays us is fenerbace away that could be a horrible little week.

Home thankfully.

League games are both away

Leroy42

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

There was plenty of examples of bits of interplay around the Northampton box tonight where Rooney successfully controlled the football. To say he no longer has the ability to control a football is just so utterly stupid.

The fact that you cite that are some sort of positive to Rooney, once touted as in the World Class bracket, sums up the problem.

He has gone from terrorising defences to being able to control the ball around the box against a D2 team.

Rooney was given yet another chance, and yet again failed to deliver. You can talk about good touches, link up play all you like but essentially he is supposed to be a 20 goal a year man (remember all his talk last year) and he couldn't even score tonight.

Maybe thats harsh, but this is top level football. Either you deliver or you are out. Why should it be any different for him

Bleating Lamb

How did Fonsu Mensue do?

deaddonkey15

Leroy42 wrote: »

The fact that you cite that are some sort of positive to Rooney, once touted as in the World Class bracket, sums up the problem.

He has gone from terrorising defences to being able to control the ball around the box against a D2 team.

Rooney was given yet another chance, and yet again failed to deliver. You can talk about good touches, link up play all you like but essentially he is supposed to be a 20 goal a year man (remember all his talk last year) and he couldn't even score tonight.

Maybe thats harsh, but this is top level football. Either you deliver or you are out. Why should it be any different for him

I wasn't citing it as a positive. I was citing it as proof that another poster's criticism of him was once again just blatantly untrue.

sky88

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

How did Fonsu Mensue do?

Not great was poor with the ball tbh. I just don't think he's a right back at all. I think he'll make a very good cb eventually tho.

DM_7

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I wasn't citing it as a positive. I was citing it as proof that another poster's criticism of him was once again just blatantly untrue.

Is his touch as good as Zlatan?

As good as Rashford or Herrera?

alchemist33

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

How did Fonsu Mensue do?

Almost scored with a cracking header.

Motionless when we conceded the penalty.

Otherwise unremarkable.

Pro. F

Leroy42 wrote: »

The fact that you cite that are some sort of positive to Rooney, once touted as in the World Class bracket, sums up the problem.

But you see, when people go ridiculously over board in their descriptions of the simple things that he is supposedly not able to do, there is no way to explain that they are wrong without pointing out that he can do them. Then you have some other poster (you in this case) going on about how that is not impressive enough. That information is not meant to be impressive, it is simply being put forward because people don't agree with what the OTT critics are saying.

Pro. F

DM_7 wrote: »

Is his touch as good as Zlatan?

As good as Rashford or Herrera?

Yes, yes and no.

deaddonkey15

DM_7 wrote: »

Is his touch as good as Zlatan?

As good as Rashford or Herrera?

Debatable, depends on the situation. I would imagine a poor touch for those players is far more forgivable and less memorable for many here than one for Rooney. It's irrelevant to the point I was making however.

Amazing

Pointing out word for word what Rooney done throughout the match isn't enough

Muck pure and simple

Hyperbole bla bla bla

I think it's time to rub the eyes clean because they are washed out with pure denial at this stage

Bleating Lamb

sky88 wrote: »

Not great was poor with the ball tbh. I just don't think he's a right back at all. I think he'll make a very good cb eventually tho.

Bit disappointed to hear he was poor with the ball......had him lined up as a strong defensive midfielder in a couple of years in my head.

Leroy42

Pro. F wrote: »

But you see, when people go ridiculously over board in their descriptions of the simple things that he is supposedly not able to do, there is no way to explain that they are wrong without pointing out that he can do them. Then you have some other poster (you in this case) going on about how that is not impressive enough. That information is not meant to be impressive, it is simply being put forward because people don't agree with what the OTT critics are saying.

Yes, I get that, but my point was that whilst I understand that it was in response to a particular point there are no examples tonight of anything he did that would suggest he is on form.

Nothing. No bit of play that you or anybody can point to and say, Wow, thats why he is in the team, cos he can do that.

All that is left is to argue of whether is control around the box is poor or sufficient. The easy way to cut all this talk off is to simply point to the great things he has done. Unfortunately, they are very few and far between.

deaddonkey15

Pro. F wrote: »

But you see, when people go ridiculously over board in their descriptions of the simple things that he is supposedly not able to do, there is no way to explain that they are wrong without pointing out that he can do them. Then you have some other poster (you in this case) going on about how that is not impressive enough. That information is not meant to be impressive, it is simply being put forward because people don't agree with what the OTT critics are saying.

I might have to get this post framed. This is pretty much how a lot of Rooney debates escalate. It's weird, and disappointing, that you seem to be the only other logical and objective poster regarding Rooney on this thread.

deaddonkey15

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes, I get that, but my point was that whilst I understand that it was in response to a particular point there are no examples tonight of anything he did that would suggest he is on form.

Nothing. No bit of play that you or anybody can point to and say, Wow, thats why he is in the team, cos he can do that.

All that is left is to argue of whether is control around the box is poor or sufficient. The easy way to cut all this talk off is to simply point to the great things he has done. Unfortunately, they are very few and far between.

But I never said that he was in form? Or that his control around the box is sufficient?

Leroy42

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I might have to get this post framed. This is pretty much how a lot of Rooney debates escalate. It's weird, and disappointing, that you seem to be the only other logical and objective poster regarding Rooney on this thread.

Its only able to continue because he simply has done nothing of note. You guys are simply arguing whether the poor things pointed out by others are really poor, sufficient or being taken out of context.

Simple way to shut up the debate was for him to score a hat trick tonight (or such like). But again he fails to deliver

bangkok

adox wrote: »

Against Northampton.
He played really well against them but I wouldn't be using this game as a yardstick to who to pick at the weekend.

I'd have Herrera in the team on Saturday but that's not just based on tonight's performance.

I would also have Herrera in the team and play carrick to control and pass the ball, what we have been lacking. We will see the best of pogba then

deaddonkey15

Leroy42 wrote: »

Its only able to continue because he simply has done nothing of note. You guys are simply arguing whether the poor things pointed out by others are really poor, sufficient or being taken out of context.

No, I was just pointing out that it was untrue and a blatant lie.

Leroy42

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

But I never said that he was in form? Or that his control around the box is sufficient?

So what are you arguing then, semantics? You think the captain and top player is off form and has an insufficient touch and you think hyperbole is the problem?

bangkok

Rooney needs to be taken out of the team for his own sake. He was average tonight against league 1 opposition

Pro. F

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes, I get that, but my point was that whilst I understand that it was in response to a particular point there are no examples tonight of anything he did that would suggest he is on form.

Nothing. No bit of play that you or anybody can point to and say, Wow, thats why he is in the team, cos he can do that.

All that is left is to argue of whether is control around the box is poor or sufficient. The easy way to cut all this talk off is to simply point to the great things he has done. Unfortunately, they are very few and far between.

Actually I could post a fair bit of that. His off the ball movement, defensive work-rate and crossing. They were all good.

The conversation is moving very fast. You don't necessarily post everything you think about a topic when you are discussing.

Leroy42

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

No, I was just pointing out that it was untrue and a blatant lie.

Why though, why do you think that makes a difference? Do you think that having a sufficient or really poor touch is not a problem?

People get carried away in football all the time, hell the EPL is built on it. Rooney is on 300k a week which is scarily over the top for any player but he seemed happy to take it when the going was good.

If you live by exaggeration then don't be surprised when you are judged by it

Nalz

Missed the game, my first arrived today at 11:43am. Another United fab enters the world.

Delighted

Heard a certain player was below par again? Howd the rest do? Rojo do anything to warrant his place in the squad?

deaddonkey15

Leroy42 wrote: »

So what are you arguing then, semantics? You think the captain and top player is off form and has an insufficient touch and you think hyperbole is the problem?

I'll break it down for you so it's nice and simple for you to understand.

Someone else: "Rooney doesn't have the ability to control a football anymore"
Me: "Well actually, he does. He controlled a football plenty of times tonight".

Feel free to PM me if you'd like me to explain it further.

Leroy42

Pro. F wrote: »

Actually I could post a fair bit of that. His off the ball movement, defensive work-rate and crossing. They were all good.

The conversation is moving very fast. You don't necessarily post everything you think about a topic when you are discussing.

But not great? Against on much poorer side, a training match really and knowing he was under pressure and the team is under pressure you seem happy that he played adequately?

Pro. F

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I might have to get this post framed. This is pretty much how a lot of Rooney debates escalate. It's weird, and disappointing, that you seem to be the only other logical and objective poster regarding Rooney on this thread.

There are actually plenty of logical and objective posters on the topic, even ones who think Roone should be dropped. But then there are also lots of people who are going OTT.

Leroy42

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I'll break it down for you so it's nice and simple for you to understand.

Someone else: "Rooney doesn't have the ability to control a football anymore"
Me: "Well actually, he does. He controlled a football plenty of times tonight".

Feel free to PM me if you'd like me to explain it further.

No need to be condescending. I know you obviously feel you are right. If you are happy with his display tonight then fair enough, we just want different things for the team.

deaddonkey15

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why though, why do you think that makes a difference? Do you think that having a sufficient or really poor touch is not a problem?

Because it's not conducive to a mature discussion.

Leroy42 wrote: »

People get carried away in football all the time, hell the EPL is built on it. Rooney is on 300k a week which is scarily over the top for any player but he seemed happy to take it when the going was good.

Why wouldn't he?

Leroy42 wrote: »

If you live by exaggeration then don't be surprised when you are judged by it

What are you talking about?

Pro. F

Leroy42 wrote: »

But not great? Against on much poorer side, a training match really and knowing he was under pressure and the team is under pressure you seem happy that he played adequately?

Meh. You can act as if a player has to be great in order to be good enough for where United want to be, but it isn't the case. There wasn't a single player who was great playing for United tonight. That is not a problem.

bucketybuck

Nalz wrote: »

Heard a certain player was below par again?

I hear his crossing was good. And his defensive work rate.

Pity he was playing as a striker.

wiz569

Nalz wrote: »

Missed the game, my first arrived today at 11:43am. Another United fab enters the world.

Delighted

Heard a certain player was below par again? Howd the rest do? Rojo do anything to warrant his place in the squad?

Congrats m8,delighted for you

deaddonkey15

Leroy42 wrote: »

No need to be condescending. I know you obviously feel you are right. If you are happy with his display tonight then fair enough, we just want different things for the team.

I'm not condescending. I don't know how better to explain my exchange with another poster that has apparently made you quite upset. I never said I was happy with his performance.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

I hear his crossing was good. And his defensive work rate.

Pity he was playing as a striker.

Make sure to leave out the off the ball movement that I mentioned. Not like that is important for the position or anything.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Make sure to leave out the off the ball movement that I mentioned. Not like that is important for the position or anything.

Rooney was bang average tonight. Nothing more nothing less

brinty

Nalz wrote:

Missed the game, my first arrived today at 11:43am. Another United fab enters the world.

Congratz mate
Hope mother and baby are happy and healthy
I didn't see it either so can't comment on it personally
But there seems to be two people defending said player
One in a constructive and reasoned manner
The other being an absolute (insert your word of choice) and taking the opposing view to 95% of posters for the sake of it

Leroy42

Anyway, they won, that is the main thing. Hopefully Jose learned something tonight that helps the team (and in case anybody thinks otherwise, that is not a reference to dropping Rooney).

This will take time, the players need time to get out of the funk of the last few years. Good start, followed by a very poor week. Lets hope that was just a blip and things can start to improve.

At the very least this last week has hopefully curbed peoples expectations. Some seemed to think that Utd were title contenders. They still might be but it should be a welcome surprise rather than an expectation.

limnam

Leroy42 wrote: »

But not great? Against on much poorer side, a training match really and knowing he was under pressure and the team is under pressure you seem happy that he played adequately?

Stop with this utter nonsense.

No one's saying he played a blinder but whats been spouted on every single touch is just tripe.

Carrick had a great game but did exactly what rooney did in the video against watford with his over hit pass into no one.

Schenederlin had some poor touches and questionable decision making.
Young made mistakes, ibra made mistakes. Blind was dodge rojo was woeful. All of these are premiership players playing weaker opponents all making simple mistakes.

So what will we do? Retire the whole bloody team?

Most of what rooney did was perfectly acceptable, nice touches, nice lay offs. spread the ball when needed. Didn't take on shots and chose better options etc. If all the hyperbole off recent times wasn't going on no one would have blinked an eye lids at that performance.

put the sun and the playstation controller down and get out and play a bit of ball ffs

how.gareth

bangkok wrote: »

Rooney was bang average tonight. Nothing more nothing less

Yep I think that's the most honest and fair assessment, he looked a lot more hungry to get on the ball and did a bit of his old busting a gut to get back and help out, his touch was a bit ropey at times and he didn't create much in the danger area but as a team we would have been just as poor I think even if he hadn't played

jayo26

Nalz wrote: »

Missed the game, my first arrived today at 11:43am. Another United fab enters the world.

Delighted

Heard a certain player was below par again? Howd the rest do? Rojo do anything to warrant his place in the squad?

Super congratulations pal wishing you and family all the best.

secman

Nalz wrote: »

Missed the game, my first arrived today at 11:43am. Another United fab enters the world.

Delighted

Heard a certain player was below par again? Howd the rest do? Rojo do anything to warrant his place in the squad?

A big welcome to baby Marcus Ander Michael Nalz

yes there

limnam wrote:

Stop with this utter nonsense.

The reek of irony

Flint Fredstone

Nalz wrote: »

Missed the game, my first arrived today at 11:43am. Another United fab enters the world.

Delighted

Heard a certain player was below par again? Howd the rest do? Rojo do anything to warrant his place in the squad?

Congrats man. My fella is only 3 and a half months old, I've had about 6 hours sleep since he was born. Good times :pac:

Jayop

It might be better if we call this the Rooney thread and take the United general talk to the actual Rooney thread. I know that All United talk is allowed in here so there's nothing those of us who are totally and utterly fed up with it can do but my God it's absolutely horrible to read here day after day the same arguments regurgitated over and over. We get it, the vast majority think he's dung, completely finished and they want him gone. A few think he did OK in the first few games and badly since, and a few think he's still a player who can do it for United. Really, is there a single other thing we could talk about besides him??


Anyway, City next up in the cup. Not too annoyed about that apart from the fact it's a big game in a time we could probably have done without it. Decent chance to get one over them assuming they'll be resting players too. We've both got interesting runs coming up.

United
24/9 Leicester H
29/9 Zorya H
2/10 Stoke H
17/10 Liverpool A
20/10 Fenerbahce H
23/10 Chelsea A
25/10 City H (cup)
29/10 Burnley H
3/10 Fenerbahce A
6/11 Swansea A

City
24/9 Swansea A
28/9 Celtic A
2/10 Spurs A
15/10 Everton H
19/10 Barca A
23/10 Soton H
25/10 United A (cup)
29/10 West Brom A
1/11 Barca H
5/11 Boro H

That's the next ten games from each of us. The game is no more inconvenient to us than it is to them with us both playing our games either side of it on the same dates. The only down side is we have Chelsea away on the game before it while thy have Southampton Home.

Jayop

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Congrats man. My fella is only 3 and a half months old, I've had about 6 hours sleep since he was born. Good times :pac:

Is that why you're so grumpy lately??

Lithium93_

Yeah the Rooney thing has been done to death at this point, that's a dead horse that can't be kicked any longer.. Some will back him to the hilt, some will say he's ****e and there will be those who couldn't give flying fuck about Rooney..

Flint Fredstone

Jayop wrote: »

Is that why you're so grumpy lately??

Me? Grumpy? Don't know what you're talking about :pac: