Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016 - Mod Note in OP, 13/9

magnumbud

magnumbud wrote: »

nail on the head

He was honestly put in a pure awkward position by the caller but you can see it in his eyes that he knows the caller was bang on

MUTV have Rooney covered
BBC have Rooney covered
Sky have Rooney covered

It's either someone he knows personally working in the media who have a fear of saying anything negative about him or the fact that he's English

It's a huge concern

Giggsy11

TheDoc wrote: »

Blind is just as competent as Carrick. And Blind has the added benefit of not ****ting a brick when he gets put under a bit of pressure.

Carrick is far superior player and passer of the ball. Easy to forget how easy it was to bypass our midfield when Blind played in his first season.

sky88

Dont get why so many are getting caught up with carricks performance last night his days as a starting dm in the premier league is gone. Been a great player but pundits and fans need to let go. This same thing happened with giggs and scholes.

TheDoc

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Im fairly sure blind "****ted a brick" when he backed out of the 50/50 with de bruyne which they scored from.

That would somewhat require Blind seeing De Bruyne....

That incident was so obviously Blind getting caught from De Bruyne coming from nowhere, after Bailly missed his header.

StringerBell

I would still maintain Blind was too willing to let the ball come rather go and meet it and remove the danger.

I don't think he pulled out of a 50/50 though or anything of the sort, De Bruyne caught him out by being going to meet the ball and make something happen instead of waiting for something.

Hococop

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He was honestly put in a pure awkward position by the caller but you can see it in his eyes that he knows the caller was bang on

MUTV have Rooney covered
BBC have Rooney covered
Sky have Rooney covered

It's either someone he knows personally working in the media who have a fear of saying anything negative about him or the fact that he's English

It's a huge concern

Agreed, first bit of defending he did was talk about what he did in the past and how this is only a blip, its not it has been said since last year on this chat that he is in decline.

I would like to see how he would perform if he was dropped for 2-3 games in a row, I know it has happened a few times but that was due to injury it would be interesting to see how he would perform then

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

They really have.

Zlatan has had more than a few loose touches and poorly placed lay-offs. But he has been more often playing in a more difficult role in that regard (right at the point). Overall, the two of them have been similar in terms of quality of first touch..

Just going to be one of these we collide on and fail to convince each other otherwise. So will respect your opinion on it .

Blind isn't as good a passer as Carrick and he isn't as good as Carrick at dealing with the ball under pressure. I'm not a fan of Carrick, but he is a far superior DM to Blind.

Same as above.


That's not me being smart btw, don't take it that way. I think we are posting on opposite sides of talking points enough to know we rarely convince each other, of the others argument (although think you did convince me with something once, and I actually think it might have been about Rooney a few years back :P )

I'm actually going to try temper my responses in general going forward about a few things. Probably appreciate some posters might be sick of me with the same old same old. And I probably should appreciate more people are going to see the game differently to what I see and value different things etc.

beno619

TheDoc wrote: »

Blind is just as competent as Carrick. And Blind has the added benefit of not ****ting a brick when he gets put under a bit of pressure.

Meh a lot of people forget Blind at the beginning of LVG's reign.

Lots of sideways passes and his lack of pace made him easy to bypass.

Its worth giving him another go but id have Carrick ahead of him.

bangkok

sky88 wrote: »

Dont get why so many are getting caught up with carricks performance last night his days as a starting dm in the premier league is gone. Been a great player but pundits and fans need to let go. This same thing happened with giggs and scholes.

Maybe because he is the best dm we have and our best passer in the club. Age is only a number, just ask rashford or Ibra

Whatsisname

bangkok wrote: »

Maybe because he is the best dm we have and our best passer in the club. Age is only a number, just ask rashford or Ibra

Or ask Rooney

Cantona's Collars

The major worry I have for Saturday is Vardy running in behind Smalling if he plays,Smalling has the bad habit of pulling back players and with the new rules he's a red card waiting to happen.
For all the talk of Blinds lack of pace,one thing he does do well is read the game and tends to cut out the majority of balls before they even reach the striker.
Rooney will be 'rested' and after Jose's comments about "goals,goals,goals" last night and once more the main man not delivering this looks more like a certainty than wishful thinking.
Herrera deserves a start,he was stifled under LVG with his weird stay in one spot tactics and Jose alluded to trying to get that out of the players heads.

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Just going to be one of these we collide on and fail to convince each other otherwise. So will respect your opinion on it .

Same as above.

That's not me being smart btw, don't take it that way. I think we are posting on opposite sides of talking points enough to know we rarely convince each other, of the others argument (although think you did convince me with something once, and I actually think it might have been about Rooney a few years back :P )

I'm actually going to try temper my responses in general going forward about a few things. Probably appreciate some posters might be sick of me with the same old same old. And I probably should appreciate more people are going to see the game differently to what I see and value different things etc.

Yeah, we're not going to change each other's opinions on these two topics, and that's not a bad thing. But don't temper your responses on my account. Raw, undiluted Doc is good by me.

KH25

After watching last night, I would say Rooney had an ok game. I thought he had a few decent touches, showed some good movement,and did a decent defensive shift when needed.

However, all that being said, he's out of form. At this stage it looks like he's trying too hard and that's only exacerbating the problem. I think it would be best to bench him for a few games and take the spotlight off him for a while. If there's any hope of him getting close to the old Rooney, it's probably not going to happen with the media and some fans breathing down his neck and scrutinising every little mistake he makes.

Cantona's Collars

M.E.N have compiled all the times Fergie publicly criticised his own players:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-news-alex-ferguson-11918367

David Beckham, February 2000

Cristiano Ronaldo, April 2009

Jonny Evans, February 2010

Wayne Rooney, September 2011

Wayne Rooney, April 2012

Chris Smalling, April 2012

Wayne Rooney, October 2012

Nani, October 2012

Wayne Rooney, April 2013

KH25

KH25 wrote: »

After watching last night, I would say Rooney had an ok game. I thought he had a few decent touches, showed some good movement,and did a decent defensive shift when needed.

However, all that being said, he's out of form. At this stage it looks like he's trying too hard and that's only exacerbating the problem. I think it would be best to bench him for a few games and take the spotlight off him for a while. If there's any hope of him getting close to the old Rooney, it's probably not going to happen with the media and some fans breathing down his neck and scrutinising every little mistake he makes.

I find as frustrated as you can be you can still detail objectively what was witnessed.
I've nearly gone as far as jotting it down with a notepad! You can call it nitpicky or not but it's so blatantly obvious when you outright concentrate and observe him as a player recently.

bangkok

zerks wrote: »

M.E.N have compiled all the times Fergie publicly criticised his own players:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-news-alex-ferguson-11918367

David Beckham, February 2000

Cristiano Ronaldo, April 2009

Jonny Evans, February 2010

Wayne Rooney, September 2011

Wayne Rooney, April 2012

Chris Smalling, April 2012

Wayne Rooney, October 2012

Nani, October 2012

Wayne Rooney, April 2013

That has to be one of the worst written articles ever, I stopped reading after the 3rd one. At no point did he publicly criticise any of the first 3 players listed in that article

Flint Fredstone

zerks wrote: »

M.E.N have compiled all the times Fergie publicly criticised his own players:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-united-news-alex-ferguson-11918367

David Beckham, February 2000

Cristiano Ronaldo, April 2009

Jonny Evans, February 2010

Wayne Rooney, September 2011

Wayne Rooney, April 2012

Chris Smalling, April 2012

Wayne Rooney, October 2012

Nani, October 2012

Wayne Rooney, April 2013

It's mad how the one player that is seemingly beyond criticism by anybody at the club since Fergie left is the one that featured most in Fergie's list.

Cantona's Collars

bangkok wrote: »

That has to be one of the worst written articles ever, I stopped reading after the 3rd one. At no point did he publicly criticise any of the first 3 players listed in that article

The first one was Becks being bawled out of it for being late and journos seeing it so Becks was left out of the squad.

The second was caught on camera on the sidelines where he was roaring at Evan to wake up,nothing out of the ordinary there.It happens at every game.

The third was Rooney taking a sh1t penalty: "I don’t know what Wayne was trying to do with the penalty," Ferguson fumed. "I was dumbstruck by that one."

4th, "I think Wayne is the type of player who has to play on the edge in a game really," Ferguson told MUTV. “When it's a really close and competitive game. When it gets to that casual bit, he's worse than the rest of them. He gets so casual about it.” The club website did not hesitate running the quotes.

5th, "If you lose a goal at a set-piece you only have yourself to blame at this level," Ferguson said. He later admitted it was a mistake to single out Smalling.

6th, "He (Rooney) is very stocky, he is going to have to train well all the time, there is no doubt about that.”

7th, "We were playing really good football at that point and all we needed to do was see the game out by keeping possession.

"But Nani decided to try and beat a player, lost the ball and they got a penalty kick against us.”

8th, "I took him off because Villa were a very fast, young side, full of running, and their substitute was running past Wayne." Ferguson is unlikely to be of the same view as the multitude of blinkered television pundits that Rooney belongs in midfield in the current United side.

RobertKK

Rooney looks burnt out and in need of a long break from the game/change of career.

Just saying how it appears. Getting burnt out is a serious issue for anyone.

TheDoc

When a manager publicly criticised a player, it was always seen as laying down a marker/challenge to the player to sort it out and lift their performance. Koeman just did it with Barkley.

The United players shouldn't be acting any different. They need to take it on the chin, get angry, get embarrassed and put it right. It's worse when managers just blindly protect their players, when fans know its not the case.

Also saw Mourinhos MUTV interview last night late. I only saw his Sky one and was a bit "oh dear, he looks a bit deflated already" then kinda grasped it was one of his things he does when hes unhappy with how Sky pundits or general media misquote or annoy him.

223vmax

https://www.facebook.com/ChevroletFC/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

Live feed MUFC mascot training drills with 1st team

Rossi IRL

Rooney and Ant Crolla on Thursday Night Focus tonight.

Cantona's Collars

So who is on match thread duty this weekend? I'll be on the beer in Manchester.

sky88

zerks wrote: »

The first one was Becks being bawled out of it for being late and journos seeing it so Becks was left out of the squad.


4th, "I think Wayne is the type of player who has to play on the edge in a game really," Ferguson told MUTV. “When it's a really close and competitive game. When it gets to that casual bit, he's worse than the rest of them. He gets so casual about it.” The club website did not hesitate running the quotes.

i actually think this is one of the problems with rooney. hes always benefited from having a fast paced team around him. At england and united now for the last number of seasons has been pedestrian since before fergie left.

I think the real problem with him is he is burnt out. hes been playing at the top level since he was 16 playing full season near enough every season. He is going to slow down with age but its happened quickly with him. Lets face it hes never been like a ronaldo were he kept himself in extremely good shape all the time.

I think dropping him for good amount of time will do the team good and hopefully give him a renewed purpose and light a fire under him to regain some kind of form.

Cantona's Collars

sky88 wrote: »

i actually think this is one of the problems with rooney. hes always benefited from having a fast paced team around him. At england and united now for the last number of seasons has been pedestrian since before fergie left.

I think the real problem with him is he is burnt out. hes been playing at the top level since he was 16 playing full season near enough every season. He is going to slow down with age but its happened quickly with him. Lets face it hes never been like a ronaldo were he kept himself in extremely good shape all the time.

I think dropping him for good amount of time will do the team good and hopefully give him a renewed purpose and light a fire under him to regain some kind of form.

The problem with leaving him out is the argument "he needs games to play himself into form".This is a common thing with Rooney. When he is out of the side it's as if he forgets he is a footballer and then returns to the team out of shape and out of form.At the moment it is a lose lose scenario,play him and he's having a detrimental effect on the team,leave him out and we make the problem of his poor form worse and have to start at square one again.
He will have to rid himself of his mentality of "if I'm fit,I play" and accept he is no longer the player he was back in 2009/2010 and that we have better equipped players to step in and take his place.

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

He will have to rid himself of his mentality of "if I'm fit,I play" and accept he is no longer the player he was back in 2009/2010 and that we have better equipped players to step in and take his place.

Yeah, he's a bollocks for selecting himself every week.

KH25

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I find as frustrated as you can be you can still detail objectively what was witnessed.
I've nearly gone as far as jotting it down with a notepad! You can call it nitpicky or not but it's so blatantly obvious when you outright concentrate and observe him as a player recently.

Nothing wrong with being objective about it. As I've said I think he should be benched. He's not playing well enough in my view to merit starting almost every game.

My point really is that I think some people are taking every single mistake he makes and using it as a stick to beat him with, no matter how small the mistake.

Case in point, Zlatan puts Fellaini through last night, keeper saves and it rebounds to Rooney (at a decent pace) who tries to control it but doesn't manage to. Now to me, it's not a huge mistake and it could happen to most players. It's not as bad as say wasting a 2 on 1 with a shocking pass. He was on the end of some amount of abuse for that moment in here last night.

I'm all for objectivity but some people seem to have an unrelenting vendetta against him.

Flint Fredstone

Since Rashford made his debut, Agüero is the only Premier League player to have scored more than him in all competitions.

Good going kid.

bangkok

zerks wrote: »

The first one was Becks being bawled out of it for being late and journos seeing it so Becks was left out of the squad.

The second was caught on camera on the sidelines where he was roaring at Evan to wake up,nothing out of the ordinary there.It happens at every game.

The third was Rooney taking a sh1t penalty: "I don’t know what Wayne was trying to do with the penalty," Ferguson fumed. "I was dumbstruck by that one."

4th, "I think Wayne is the type of player who has to play on the edge in a game really," Ferguson told MUTV. “When it's a really close and competitive game. When it gets to that casual bit, he's worse than the rest of them. He gets so casual about it.” The club website did not hesitate running the quotes.

5th, "If you lose a goal at a set-piece you only have yourself to blame at this level," Ferguson said. He later admitted it was a mistake to single out Smalling.

6th, "He (Rooney) is very stocky, he is going to have to train well all the time, there is no doubt about that.”

7th, "We were playing really good football at that point and all we needed to do was see the game out by keeping possession.

"But Nani decided to try and beat a player, lost the ball and they got a penalty kick against us.”

8th, "I took him off because Villa were a very fast, young side, full of running, and their substitute was running past Wayne." Ferguson is unlikely to be of the same view as the multitude of blinkered television pundits that Rooney belongs in midfield in the current United side.

First one was actually beckham missed training on Friday altogether and was told to go home when he arrived for training onsaturday. They played Leeds on the Sunday

Flint Fredstone

KH25 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with being objective about it. As I've said I think he should be benched. He's not playing well enough in my view to merit starting almost every game.

My point really is that I think some people are taking every single mistake he makes and using it as a stick to beat him with, no matter how small the mistake.

Case in point, Zlatan puts Fellaini through last night, keeper saves and it rebounds to Rooney (at a decent pace) who tries to control it but doesn't manage to. Now to me, it's not a huge mistake and it could happen to most players. It's not as bad as say wasting a 2 on 1 with a shocking pass. He was on the end of some amount of abuse for that moment in here last night.

I'm all for objectivity but some people seem to have an unrelenting vendetta against him.

I've no problem admitting he gets less leeway than most from me.
It's his own high standards, his wages, his transfer requests, his smoking, his fitness issues at the start of most seasons.
There's probably more but in summary, he's made his bed...

Nalz

magnumbud wrote: »

nail on the head

perfect!

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

Blind isn't as good a passer as Carrick and he isn't as good as Carrick at dealing with the ball under pressure. I'm not a fan of Carrick, but he is a far superior DM to Blind.

With the ball Carrick is better. Covering space & positional sense they are equal. Tackling and dispossessing players Blind wins for me.

KH25

KH25 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with being objective about it. As I've said I think he should be benched. He's not playing well enough in my view to merit starting almost every game.

My point really is that I think some people are taking every single mistake he makes and using it as a stick to beat him with, no matter how small the mistake.

Case in point, Zlatan puts Fellaini through last night, keeper saves and it rebounds to Rooney (at a decent pace) who tries to control it but doesn't manage to. Now to me, it's not a huge mistake and it could happen to most players. It's not as bad as say wasting a 2 on 1 with a shocking pass. He was on the end of some amount of abuse for that moment in here last night.

I'm all for objectivity but some people seem to have an unrelenting vendetta against him.

I will reference the point you made about somebody jumping on his back when the ball came at him really fast and he was unable to control it. I assume this is what you talking about.
I get that, its understandably and shouldn't be used to shoot him down. To note I didn't mention this in my critic of him.

Me personally I picked out multiple instances or mediocrity and all within reason of what should be expected from a footballer of his caliber and he wasn't able to perform said tasks.

The response on the other hand was just aggressive, dismissive and insulting from certain poster but I'm not going into that.

My points stands that I believe it was reasonable to outline those clear blunders that I observed.

And this is not just last night. He's doing the same things over and over.

KH25

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

I've no problem admitting he gets less leeway than most from me.
It's his own high standards, his wages, his transfer requests, his smoking, his fitness issues at the start of most seasons.
There's probably more but in summary, he's made his bed...

That's fine. Sure I've berated him when sitting in front of the telly for some performances. I remember the player he was (which might be an unfair comparison now) and I expect better.

I just think it can be a bit mad how we all give Bangkok stick for berating Fellaini over everything (although that doesn't really happen anymore), yet it seems some people do the same to Rooney and don't see the contradiction.

KH25

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I will reference the point you made about somebody jumping on his back when the ball came at him really fast and he was unable to control it. I assume this is what you talking about.
I get that, its understandably and shouldn't be used to shoot him down. To note I didn't mention this in my critic of him.

Me personally I picked out multiple instances or mediocrity and all within reason of what should be expected from a footballer of his caliber and he wasn't able to perform said tasks.

The response on the other hand was just aggressive, dismissive and insulting from certain poster but I'm not going into that.

My points stands that I believe it was reasonable to outline those clear blunders that I observed.

And this is not just last night. He's doing the same things over and over.

Just want to point out I'm not having a go at you or your posts. I'm just saying that some of the arguments I'm seeing are getting ridiculous.

v3ttel

magnumbud wrote: »

nail on the head

This guy is spot on, but you've got to remember the MUTV guys are not going to lambast the players or manager on their own TV channel, nevermind the club captain. Even Paddy said when Mourinho was appointed "did you really think we weren't bored to tears with LVG" when people starting giving them stick for not turning on Van Gaal last season.

The fact that even Sammy admitted that Rooney has been "having a tough time" shows how poor he has been recently. He does deserve to be dropped.

On an unrelated topic, I was reading a piece on Yaya Toure and his situation at City. They called Pep's dealing of the situation as "blissful assuredness" where he puibicly came out and said Yaya would not play again unless he apologized. If Mourinho had done that, they media would be burning effigies of him.

Blissful assuredness..... f*ck off.

Rayne Wooney

Playing 90 minutes yesterday must be a way to "rest" him Saturday morning.

......Fellaini......
Herrera Pogba
Mata Ibra Rashford

Flint Fredstone

MUTV is like a Nth Korean propaganda channel.

Lord TSC

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

......Fellaini......
Herrera Pogba
Mata Ibra Rashford

If thats the personnel we're going with, I wonder would a different formation not be better, to get everyone in their proper positions. Something like...

De Gea
Valencia - Bayley - Blind - Shaw
Herrera - Fellaini - Pogba
Mata
Rashford - Zlatan

...using the wingbacks for width and going a bit more narrow up top.

Kerrydude1981

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Playing 90 minutes yesterday must be a way to "rest" him Saturday morning.

......Fellaini......
Herrera Pogba
Mata Ibra Rashford

I know it was Northampton but I do think there is need for Carrick to be involved,even if he just plays for an hour or comes on for the last 20 minutes just to settle things down I think he is needed.

Leroy42

Why not start with Zlatan and have Rooney come on. (or the other way around). Get the most from both of them in their favored positions. its a pretty daunted prospect to have to shut out Zlatan only to have a rested Rooney come off the bench.

J. Marston

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why not start with Zlatan and have Rooney come on. (or the other way around). Get the most from both of them in their favored positions. its a pretty daunted prospect to have to shut out Zlatan only to have a rested Rooney come off the bench.

There's nothing daunting about Rooney these days.

Flint Fredstone

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why not start with Zlatan and have Rooney come on. (or the other way around). Get the most from both of them in their favored positions. its a pretty daunted prospect to have to shut out Zlatan only to have a rested Rooney come off the bench.

What if Zlatan is playing well?

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Me personally I picked out multiple instances or mediocrity and all within reason of what should be expected from a footballer of his caliber and he wasn't able to perform said tasks.

Nope. You picked out five instances of completely unremarkable play and acted as if they were bad play when they weren't.

Leroy42

J. Marston wrote: »

There's nothing daunting about Rooney these days.

New lease of life. take the pressure of having to do midfield and tracking back. Lead striker, stay up top and get goals.

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

What if Zlatan is playing well?

Of course if he is really playing well Jose can make the call, but even if he is playing well, getting something different on is nearly always a good tactic. If he is playing well we should be in front so bringing on Rooney should create more oppurtuniites as Zlaton would start to tire. If we are drawing of behind, then likelyhood is that he isn't playing that well and we need something different.

Of Course we could always bring them both on and move to 442 or whatever

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

Nope. You picked out five instances of completely unremarkable play and acted as if they were bad play when they weren't.

I asked you not to quote me about Rooney or discuss any Rooney posts with me.
You just can't resist.

Discodog

You can have all the supposed analysis & counter analysis. The simple fact is that Rooney is not performing at the level required & no where near the level of a world class striker & captain.

How many goals would a United striker be expected to score ?

I think that Rashford could easily be our top scorer at the end of the season.

Pro. F

Lord TSC wrote: »

If thats the personnel we're going with, I wonder would a different formation not be better, to get everyone in their proper positions. Something like...

De Gea
Valencia - Bayley - Blind - Shaw
Herrera - Fellaini - Pogba
Mata
Rashford - Zlatan

...using the wingbacks for width and going a bit more narrow up top.

I think defensively that would probably be something like 4411 with Rashford on one wing and Pogba on the other. Not necessarily a bad thing. Pogba did a fair bit of that type of thing at Juve and Rashford has the legs for that striker-defending-on-the-wing role.

Nalz

Pro. F wrote: »

I think defensively that would probably be something like 4411 with Rashford on one wing and Pogba on the other. Not necessarily a bad thing. Pogba did a fair bit of that type of thing at Juve and Rashford has the legs for that striker-defending-on-the-wing role.

Hey Pro F I'm now a Daddy!! High 5 dude

brinty

Nalz wrote:

Hey Pro F I'm now "your" Daddy!! High 5 dude

Fyp....
Wink wink