Do you think the LC is fair?

JC43

I think the leaving cert is just a memory test, - people that have good memory excel.
Also think that in college there should be more boarder degrees - how do students know what they want when two months ago they were putting up their hands for permission to go to the loo!

Mardy Bum

JC43 wrote: »

I think the leaving cert is just a memory test, - people that have good memory excel.

Every test is a memory test. Everything you do revolves around your memory. College exams are all memory tests. Your driving test is a memory test.

Memory is an absolutely vital part of cognition. Anybody with a poor working memory will be less intelligent. Anybody without a vacuous long term memory will also be less able.

Every advanced/professional job in the world is a memory test on a day to day basis.

TSMGUY

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Every test is a memory test. Everything you do revolves around your memory. College exams are all memory tests. Your driving test is a memory test.

Memory is an absolutely vital part of cognition. Anybody with a poor working memory will be less intelligent. Anybody without a vacuous long term memory will also be less able.

Every advanced/professional job in the world is a memory test on a day to day basis.

So the unseen poetry section is a memory test? Neat.

Moody_mona

Unseen poetry is with 20 marks out of 400. I don't know why you're being so dismissive of comments in a discussion.

I would argue that unseen poetry benefit from a good memory. I was awful at English, so I still needed to remember sentence starters or things I should be looking for, even in an unseen section or the comprehension.

TSMGUY

Moody_mona wrote: »

Unseen poetry is with 20 marks out of 400. I don't know why you're being so dismissive of comments in a discussion.

I would argue that unseen poetry benefit from a good memory. I was awful at English, so I still needed to remember sentence starters or things I should be looking for, even in an unseen section or the comprehension.

Because "all tests are a memory test" is both a sweeping generalization and patently false. I was dismissing it in a lighthearted way. Why are you so eager to police my tone?

Moody_mona

I don't think it's blatantly false though. I assure you I'm not trying to police your tone, but in the eleven pages of this thread I've found you to be dismissive of other people's opinions. I understand that you said you were disillusioned in your op but I still think you should be open to different viewpoints.

TSMGUY

Moody_mona wrote: »

I don't think it's blatantly false though. I assure you I'm not trying to police your tone, but in the eleven pages of this thread I've found you to be dismissive of other people's opinions. I understand that you said you were disillusioned in your op but I still think you should be open to different viewpoints.

I'm dismissive to ideas/opinions I find stupid but if I see a salient, intelligent post I'm the first to acknowledge it.

It is quite demonstrably false. Most IQ tests consist of pictorial matrices that have nothing to do with memory. To say "Every test is a memory test" is just plain wrong.

Mardy Bum

TSMGUY wrote: »

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Every test is a memory test. Everything you do revolves around your memory. College exams are all memory tests. Your driving test is a memory test.

Memory is an absolutely vital part of cognition. Anybody with a poor working memory will be less intelligent. Anybody without a vacuous long term memory will also be less able.

Every advanced/professional job in the world is a memory test on a day to day basis.

So the unseen poetry section is a memory test? Neat.

Yes. Do you know how to decipher the theme of a poem through analysing the imagery, techniques and mood? You learn this previous to the exam and then try to do it in the exam.

Mardy Bum

TSMGUY wrote: »

Moody_mona wrote: »

I don't think it's blatantly false though. I assure you I'm not trying to police your tone, but in the eleven pages of this thread I've found you to be dismissive of other people's opinions. I understand that you said you were disillusioned in your op but I still think you should be open to different viewpoints.

I'm dismissive to ideas/opinions I find stupid but if I see a salient, intelligent post I'm the first to acknowledge it.

It is quite demonstrably false. Most IQ tests consist of pictorial matrices that have nothing to do with memory. To say "Every test is a memory test" is just plain wrong.

Read some of the books I've mentioned earlier in the thread if you want to inform your opinion if you don't want to take my points on board.

Memory A Short Introduction by Oxford Press can be added to the list.

TSMGUY

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Read some of the books I've mentioned earlier in the thread if you want to inform your opinion if you don't want to take my points on board.

Memory A Short Introduction by Oxford Press can be added to the list.

Look up any basic psychometric tests if you want to inform yours.

seavill

TSMGUY wrote: »

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Read some of the books I've mentioned earlier in the thread if you want to inform your opinion if you don't want to take my points on board.

Memory A Short Introduction by Oxford Press can be added to the list.

Look up any basic psychometric tests if you want to inform yours.

Any chance of you rebutting the points you disagreed with from my post now you are back in the thread

Which points were difficult to argue with

Mardy Bum

TSMGUY wrote: »

Look up any basic psychometric tests if you want to inform yours.

You quite clearly misunderstand what memory is. Memory is not just learning off sentences without understanding. Memory is also procedural which you use in exams. It is not just declarative.

Are you saying verbal reasoning, numerical reasoning, diagrammatic reasoning is not reliant on procedural memory?
Are you saying practising psychometric tests make no difference to success in them?

BrianBoru00

TSMGUY wrote: »

I'm dismissive to ideas/opinions I find stupid but if I see a salient, intelligent post I'm the first to acknowledge it.

It is quite demonstrably false. Most IQ tests consist of pictorial matrices that have nothing to do with memory. To say "Every test is a memory test" is just plain wrong.

No its not.

those pictorial matrices are solved by using your memory base to work out the answer.
You have already learned what a pattern is, how to recognise different patterns, how to count and this has been added to your memory. Its this knowledge/memory that allows you to add more information and build on the information already there.

TSMGUY

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

No its not.

those pictorial matrices are solved by using your memory base to work out the answer.
You have already learned what a pattern is, how to recognise different patterns, how to count and this has been added to your memory. Its this knowledge/memory that allows you to add more information and build on the information already there.

you're using the very vague and malleable definition of "memory" to defend views that are just plain wrong.

"Memory test" in conventional parlance (i.e. in terms of what's actually being discussed in this thread) = a test of memorized facts and figures with very little application of original thought or analysis.

Obviously any task other than taking a piss or the gag reflex is gonna involve memory. You're either being dense or facetious, at any rate, not "every test is a memory test" and your very loose plays with semantics doesn't change that fact. Matrix tests are not memory tests. If you can't understand that, I can't help you.

randylonghorn

Could I suggest that people have a look at the cognitive domain of Bloom's Taxonomy? Not that it answers all questions by a long shot, and experts have been arguing about it for 60 years, but it does get across the point that everything we do relies at base on memory, but it's our ability to work up the ladder into the higher orders that determines our capability as human beings and as "learners" (in the broadest sense of the word, and certainly not restricting it to academic learning).

And TSM, I'm seeing words like "stupid" and "dense" again! Just because you don't agree with an opinion doesn't make it stupid or fit to be dismissed. Plus it's just farking rude to sling those kind of terms around, so just stop or stay out of the thread. If you disagree with a point, argue courteously and back your point up, don't dismiss it as nonsense "coz you say so"!

And indeed, some of the points raised above are the stuff of arguments between professors with PhDs, 40 years experience and well-regarded publications ... if they're still arguing about them, it might suggest that there's going to be differing valid opinions in this thread too.

TSMGUY

randylonghorn wrote: »

Could I suggest that people have a look at the cognitive domain of Bloom's Taxonomy? Not that it answers all questions by a long shot, and experts have been arguing about it for 60 years, but it does get across the point that everything we do relies at base on memory, but it's our ability to work up the ladder into the higher orders that determines our capability as human beings and as "learners" (in the broadest sense of the word, and certainly not restricting it to academic learning).

And TSM, I'm seeing words like "stupid" and "dense" again! Just because you don't agree with an opinion doesn't make it stupid or fit to be dismissed. Plus it's just farking rude to sling those kind of terms around, so just stop or stay out of the thread. If you disagree with a point, argue courteously and back your point up, don't dismiss it as nonsense "coz you say so"!

And indeed, some of the points raised above are the stuff of arguments between professors with PhDs, 40 years experience and well-regarded publications ... if they're still arguing about them, it might suggest that there's going to be differing valid opinions in this thread too.

I thought "dense" was a polite way of calling someone stupid:D

Alright, in all seriousness, sorry to anyone I may have offended. I was saying your arguments are stupid, not you, but even that isn't "civil", so my bad.

BrianBoru00

TSMGUY wrote: »

you're using the very vague and malleable definition of "memory" to defend views that are just plain wrong.

Senses relating to the action or process of commemorating, recollecting, or remembering. - courtesy of the Oxford English dictionary - in what way is that vague ?

"Memory test" in conventional parlance (i.e. in terms of what's actually being discussed in this thread) = a test of memorized facts and figures with very little application of original thought or analysis.

Obviously any task other than taking a piss or the gag reflex is gonna involve memory. You're either being dense or facetious, at any rate, not "every test is a memory test" and your very loose plays with semantics doesn't change that fact. Matrix tests are not memory tests. If you can't understand that, I can't help you.

Contradicted yourself there


Using big words doesn't make your points valid and it doesn't make you come across as more intelligent than average.

I can't decide if your a WUM or actually genuinely believe what your saying.

As other posters have pointed out - you're very unlikely to have any original thought or analysis on anything you study at second and even to undergraduate degree level.

You also referred to the A level system inferring it was a fairer system without any back up to prove it.

One question - Can you give an example of an A level course where you would come up with an original thought or analysis? In fact any course anywhere that's not a post grad?

TSMGUY

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Senses relating to the action or process of commemorating, recollecting, or remembering. - courtesy of the Oxford English dictionary - in what way is that vague ?



Contradicted yourself there


Using big words doesn't make your points valid and it doesn't make you come across as more intelligent than average.

I can't decide if your a WUM or actually genuinely believe what your saying.

As other posters have pointed out - you're very unlikely to have any original thought or analysis on anything you study at second and even to undergraduate degree level.

You also referred to the A level system inferring it was a fairer system without any back up to prove it.

One question - Can you give an example of an A level course where you would come up with an original thought or analysis? In fact any course anywhere that's not a post grad?

Alright pal, if I've agreed to be civil and avoid personal insults, you could do the same. Instead of casting aspersions on my intelligence and critiquing my use of language, stick on the topic.

I didn't contradict myself and my choice of words was perfectly suited to articulating my viewpoint - if you're some philistine who knee-jerk associates "big fancy learning words" with pretension, that's your issue.

I didn't contradict myself. Let me spell it out in very plain language as you seem to have an aversion to these awful "big words" I'm using.

"Memory test" in everyday speak = A test that involves spewing facts/figures without the use of analysis/insight/novelty, NOT any test that requires the cognitive function of memory. Do you understand me now?

You're just making stuff up now. I used statistics showing the disparity in top grade distribution, I illustrated the greater choice in subjects and the modular nature of exams being a plus. How is that "no evidence"?

Yes, gladly. Maybe, hmmmmm..... The Critical Thinking A-Level for one?

BrianBoru00

.....so your just avoiding the simple question I've asked in order to "stick on the topic".

"Memory test" in everyday speak = A test that involves spewing facts/figures without the use of analysis/insight/novelty, NOT any test that requires the cognitive function of memory.

Is that your own definition???

TSMGUY

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

.....so your just avoiding the simple question I've asked in order to "stick on the topic".


Is that your own definition???

You didn't reply to a single argument in my post whereas I did reply to some of your points. You see the hypocrisy in that, right?

No, it's the definition that everyone else was using ITT before you hijacked it with your irrelevant cognitive science tangents and painfully literal use of scientific language in a non-scientific context. If anyone's punching above their weight intellectually here, it's certainly not me. Are you gonna address what I said about A levels or just more unwarranted snark? I presume the latter.

randylonghorn

Oh enough, that zipping sound ye just heard was my patience flying out the window!!