Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2016/2017

marvin80

mansize wrote: »

https://twitter.com/mesutenthusiast/status/810595967766511616

3 leagues in 20 years is a very poor return

domrush

Basil3 wrote: »

You don't think we ever change tactics? I don't think it's anything to do with changing with the times. You can play and win with many styles of football.

I don't think Wenger approaches any game with a different mentality which makes him easy to predict. Hence constant struggles against teams from tactically very good managers such as Fergie, Mourinho ,Pulis, Koeman etc etc.

Defacto Wenger Tactics:

Attempt to pass it around opponent.

If this doesn't work wait far too late to make substitutes and try cross it into the box ad nauseoum.

KaiserGunner

Basil3 wrote: »

We ripped Chelsea to shreds last time we played them. Was that because we were under no pressure?

That was a great match and we fully deserved to smash them, don't know if it was to do with pressure or not. Was the standout brilliant performance of our season. Is frustrating because we know that the team is capable of doing that to most teams, but this season that performance has been an anomaly against the big sides.

You just have to look at the other matches this season against our rivals, Liverpool at home we weren't ready for the season and were woefully unprepared and got blown away.

Spurs at home, we were average and took the lead but gave away a stupid penalty to drop two points and in some ways were fortunate not to lose.

Man Utd away, we were abysmal yet again at Old Trafford against a poor enough Utd team at the time. Grabbed a last minute equaliser with the only shot by us in the game.

Man City away, abysmal yet again and were out played by a City team missing key players.

The two matches against PSG we were out played in large spells and were cut open time after time and if Cavani could finish it would have been ugly.

I'd love for Wenger to prove me wrong and fix this mess, there is still a long way to go in the season and anything is possible, but the performances against Everton and Man City away were really worrying, they reminded me of performances of the 2008-2012 sides that regularly crumbled under pressure in big games.

Richard Hillman

mansize wrote: »

I would day its because Mourinho is volatile and hangs his players out to dry.

Wenger doesn't publicly criticise his players- what does that achieve except disharmony?

It's a long-term/short-term thing. Guardiola, Mourinho, Conte or Klopp would not be able to manage a club for half the time Wenger has at Arsenal. They are too overbearing, but short term they can get results because the players are so heavily motivated.

With Wenger's style of management (which is similar to Ferguson's), the teams motivation needs to be player led. United had plenty of people in the later years that were essentially Captains. United had more captains and club captains than hot dinner's at one stage, but it didn't matter because there were so many leaders. When a player fecked up or was not pulling his weight, he'd have his teammates to answer to well before management may have even noticed.

It just doesn't seem like that at Arsenal. There isn't a player led push to become a great team. Unlike in the 90s and 00s where it was entirely player led, with Wenger overseeing things.

Even in Fergusons latter years, he wouldn't be a major face around the training field. He knew the players were driven enough to take care of themselves.

All of sports great dynasties were player led teams and a culture of winning, with a great coach overseeing things. Leinster Rugby, Australian Cricket team, New England Patriots (Bill Belicheck is quite stern though), Man Utd, New Zealand rugby team. All great teams where players would answer to their team mates before they would have to answer to the coach

mansize

marvin80 wrote: »

3 leagues in 20 years is a very poor return

How many managers won the EPL 3 times???

Richard Hillman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

All of sports great dynasties were player led teams and a culture of winning, with a great coach overseeing things. Leinster Rugby, Australian Cricket team, New England Patriots (Bill Belicheck is quite stern though), Man Utd, New Zealand rugby team. All great teams where players would answer to their team mates before they would have to answer to the coach

This is very true. Recently when the All Black's halfback was caught getting up to mischief in an airport toilet cubicle, it was the leaders within the team that decided he would be suspended. Management supported this and he was sent home.

I really do think this is where most Premier League teams are struggling right now. Out of all of the top teams in the Premier League, which could you say has a core of 3 or 4 players that are absolute leaders?

marvin80

mansize wrote: »

How many managers won the EPL 3 times???

Ferguson and Mourinho as well. Mourinho did it in the space of 5/6 years or so managing Chelsea.

tayto lover

mansize wrote: »

How many managers won the EPL 3 times???

George would have done it easily if he had been given time --

http://www.arsenal.com/history/grahams-glory-years

greendom

tayto lover wrote: »

George would have done it easily if he had been given time --

http://www.arsenal.com/history/grahams-glory-years

Don't think so. George's glory days were behind him long before he left. I think we'll be saying the same about Arsene.

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

Don't think so. George's glory days were behind him long before he left. I think we'll be saying the same about Arsene.

I disagree there. George would have won more.
Won the Cup Winners Cup in 94, sacked in '95.

GeorgeBailey

tayto lover wrote: »

I disagree there. George would have won more.
Won the Cup Winners Cup in 94, sacked in '95.

Arsenal became a decent cup side under George towards the end but were languishing pretty low in the table when he left.

GeorgeBailey

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Arsenal became a decent cup side under George towards the end but were languishing pretty low in the table when he left.

Wasn't getting the money to spend. That said, selling Rocky (who tbf was probably past his prime) and replacing him with John Jensen (more safe and defensive minded) signified a change in attitude on George's part. Teams found a way through us in the end and we hadn't the bit of flair to cope. Added to that the bung issue and Mersons cocaine addiction brought a shadow over the club

tayto lover

GeorgeBailey wrote: »

Arsenal became a decent cup side under George towards the end but were languishing pretty low in the table when he left.

There was a lot of controversy and turmoil going on at the time. I have no doubt George would have got Arsenal going again. He was able to vary tactics and always built on a solid defence. He hadn't much money to spend by all accounts either.

Anyway my post was directed at the post saying Wenger was the best and most successful manager. He was but he had a lot more time.

Quazzie

With every trophyless year that goes on, Wenger's legacy get's diluted more and more. I wonder which of our managers had the best record in terms of Trophie:Seasons managed?

emmetlego

Quazzie wrote: »

With every trophyless year that goes on, Wenger's legacy get's diluted more and more.

Pains me to agree, but it's true.

I do think this is but a blip and we will come out of it and get back on track, most likely too late for a title challenge. Chelsea will slip up. I mean, they should slip up. If they go and win their next 15 games on the trot, then good luck to them, they'll be worthy champions!

The worst part about yesterday's game, was the lack of real effort, desire, passion, hunger... It was awful to see. That was the club/team I love?? Didn't look like it to me!

tayto lover

emmetlego wrote: »

Pains me to agree, but it's true.

I do think this is but a blip and we will come out of it and get back on track, most likely too late for a title challenge. Chelsea will slip up. I mean, they should slip up. If they go and win their next 15 games on the trot, then good luck to them, they'll be worthy champions!

The worst part about yesterday's game, was the lack of real effort, desire, passion, hunger... It was awful to see. That was the club/team I love?? Didn't look like it to me!

Chelsea won 11 in a row.
I can't see them slipping-up nor will they. Even if they did lose 3 in a row which won't happen anyway can we win enough to catch them. We have to go to SB too. We barely drew with Spurs at home and lost to Liverpool and couldn't beat poor enough United and City teams at their place.

The league is as good as over for us. We won't win it again under Wenger.

Mickeroo

Quazzie wrote: »

With every trophyless year that goes on, Wenger's legacy get's diluted more and more. I wonder which of our managers had the best record in terms of Trophie:Seasons managed?

If it's in terms of ratios of entire tenure it's Graham: 6 in 9 years vs 9 in 20 for Wenger (not counting Charity Shields).

greendom

Mickeroo wrote: »

If it's in terms of ratios of entire tenure it's Graham: 6 in 9 years vs 9 in 20 for Wenger (not counting Charity Shields).

Each manager had his own issues to deal with but Graham didn't have oil men buying up clubs or a stadium to be financed.

Mickeroo

greendom wrote: »

Each manager had his own issues to deal with but Graham didn't have oil men buying up clubs or a stadium to be financed.

Graham and Wenger are the most successful managers the club ever had to be fair, the club has never come close to United/Liverpool levels of dominance.

Now I look again though, Joe Shaw managed us for just under 6 months in 1934 and won a title, so that's a trophy every half a season :P

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

Each manager had his own issues to deal with but Graham didn't have oil men buying up clubs or a stadium to be financed.

Were there oil men buying up clubs then? Doubt it.

Mr.Micro

marvin80 wrote: »

3 leagues in 20 years is a very poor return

Does qualification for the Champions league count. There should be a trophy for that, lol.

Mr.H

tayto lover wrote:

Were there oil men buying up clubs then? Doubt it.

Money clubs are not a new thing

Blackburn!!!!

Hell united where subject to interest from sky who wanted to buy heir exclusive rights to show their games every week before the premier league stepped in.

Liverpool and united constantly broke their transfer records.

Money might have had a different value but it was as much as issue pro rata and per capita for Graham as bit is for Wenger

tayto lover

Mr.H wrote: »

Money clubs are not a new thing

Blackburn!!!!

Hell united where subject to interest from sky who wanted to buy heir exclusive rights to show their games every week before the premier league stepped in.

Liverpool and united constantly broke their transfer records.

Money might have had a different value but it was as much as issue pro rata and per capita for Graham as bit is for Wenger

All clubs break their transfer record at some time or another. I remember when we bought Alan Ball for 220 thousand in 1971.

There were very few money clubs back in the day yhough.

gosplan

Lots of excuses in here today.

A week ago we looked at two games and said 'wow, if we win these it could get really interesting'.

We had a goal lead in both games and totally and utterly **** ourselves ... twice.

Nothing to do with money or PL trophies or opponents.

Pressure on, everything to play for, ball in our court. **** ourselves.

Not good enough. Whether you're fighting relegation in the 4th tier or going for the league, you don't just roll over and lose games like that.

mansize

Quazzie wrote: »

With every trophyless year that goes on, Wenger's legacy get's diluted more and more. I wonder which of our managers had the best record in terms of Trophie:Seasons managed?

Probably Chapman

mansize

gosplan wrote: »

Lots of excuses in here today.

A week ago we looked at two games and said 'wow, if we win these it could get really interesting'.

We had a goal lead in both games and totally and utterly **** ourselves ... twice.

Nothing to do with money or PL trophies or opponents.

Pressure on, everything to play for, ball in our court. **** ourselves.

Not good enough. Whether you're fighting relegation in the 4th tier or going for the league, you don't just roll over and lose games like that.

Strength and depth is a money issue

mansize

Mr.H wrote: »

Money clubs are not a new thing

Blackburn!!!!

Hell united where subject to interest from sky who wanted to buy heir exclusive rights to show their games every week before the premier league stepped in.

Liverpool and united constantly broke their transfer records.

Money might have had a different value but it was as much as issue pro rata and per capita for Graham as bit is for Wenger

United sold merchandise across the globe to finance their spending

You need success for that to be profitable though

mansize

Quazzie wrote: »

With every trophyless year that goes on, Wenger's legacy get's diluted more and more. I wonder which of our managers had the best record in terms of Trophie:Seasons managed?

Currently we're 1 season without a trophy tbf

mansize

tayto lover wrote: »

George would have done it easily if he had been given time --

http://www.arsenal.com/history/grahams-glory-years

If he hadn't broke the rules...

mansize

marvin80 wrote: »

Ferguson and Mourinho as well. Mourinho did it in the space of 5/6 years or so managing Chelsea.

Not bad company...

gosplan

mansize wrote: »

Strength and depth is a money issue

With due respect mansize, we were against Everton and a depleted City. Strength in depth had nothing to do with those results.

domrush

mansize wrote: »

Strength and depth is a money issue

Don't see how depth can be the issue. We've a large squad. The team should be able to cope without a CB for a couple of games without imploding.

City didn't play a striker against us and were missing arguably their most essential MF whilst playing a backline that have played together a couple of times this season with an average age over 30 I'd imagine. Don't get me started on Everton.

Wenger spent 100 mil this Summer on 3 players and by the looks of it was only right on one of them. (Unsure about Perez but why buy him if you won't play him)

tayto lover

mansize wrote: »

If he hadn't broke the rules...

That's the killing part. He was a great tactician and had his teams playing with strength and conviction to a set plan. He could also change and adapt to different styles. Other teams feared us and no team bullied us.

greendom

gosplan wrote: »

Lots of excuses in here today.

A week ago we looked at two games and said 'wow, if we win these it could get really interesting'.

We had a goal lead in both games and totally and utterly **** ourselves ... twice.

Nothing to do with money or PL trophies or opponents.

Pressure on, everything to play for, ball in our court. **** ourselves.

Not good enough. Whether you're fighting relegation in the 4th tier or going for the league, you don't just roll over and lose games like that.

I don't think anyone was blaming the last 2 defeats on a lack of money. I certainly wasn't.

Quazzie

Quazzie wrote: »

With every trophyless year that goes on, Wenger's legacy get's diluted more and more. I wonder which of our managers had the best record in terms of Trophie:Seasons managed?

Graham won 6 trophies in 8 and a half seasons. A decent return. Fair to say that Football was very different for much of his era. In the 80s the pitches were still atrocious in parts.

Bear in mind that the European cup/UCL only allowed the champions of each country up to 1997/98 which meant that the other two competitions were stronger at that time.

1987 League Cup (His first season)
1989 League Title
1991 League Title
1993 FA cup and League Cup double
1994 Cup Winners Cup

In Wenger's first 8 Seasons he won 3 league titles and 3 FA cups. he was unfortunate not to win another double in 1999, A uefa cup in 2000 and an FA cup in 2001. I couldnt fault the teams efforts back then. Today though i think the word 'effort' is used very very generously when describing our application on the field of play

Mickeroo

Mickeroo wrote: »

Graham and Wenger are the most successful managers the club ever had to be fair, the club has never come close to United/Liverpool levels of dominance.

Now I look again though, Joe Shaw managed us for just under 6 months in 1934 and won a title, so that's a trophy every half a season :P

That was the year Herbert Chapman died i think. Very tragic. Attended a game to watch Sheffield Wednesday who were our following opponents in early January and got a bout of pneumonia.

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

That was the year Herbert Chapman died i think. Very tragic. Attended a game to watch Sheffield Wednesday who were our following opponents in early January and got a bout of pneumonia.

What would he have got if he was watching that rubbish yesterday?

greendom

greendom wrote: »

Each manager had his own issues to deal with but Graham didn't have oil men buying up clubs or a stadium to be financed.

All seater stadiums constrained Arsenal greatly as our max capacity was 38500 people so George had a bit to contend with.

Jack Walker was spending quite a bit at Blackburn. Ferguson spent quite a bit on Roy Keane and Andy Cole at the time too. Que Newcastle in the summer of 1995 who bought Les Ferdinand and David Ginola. They later bought Asprilla. Middlesborough outbidded us for Juninho too. Chelsea bought in Vialli, Gullit, Mark Hughes around 1995 (they didnt come cheap in terms of salary). They later bought Zola and Di Matteo. Liverpool bought Stan Collymore for what was a British record in the summer of 1995 (8.5m)

DarraghF197

After listening to Gary Neville's analysis of Arsenal's downfall yesterday on MNF, which I respect as being very accurate most times, the three areas I would consider we lacked yesterday were:

1. Fatigue. I remember Neville saying at the first half that Man City can move from one side to the other and it won't make a difference in trying to break down Arsenal. However it did cause our players to run a lot, which I'm always very weary of as an Arsenal fan as Arsenal aren't a team renowned for their fitness.

2. Giroud not coming on earlier. I was pretty pi**ed off when the Ox came on before him, although Iwobi was useless so either attacker would have been an upgrade. Cech was kicking out the ball every time Arsenal had possession and he had no one to aim for. We constantly lost the ball as the defenders had to pass it back to the 'keeper due to Man City's high pressure before Cech kicked it out to some player like Özil where he'd be pushed off the ball by a more powerful player.

3. The 10-man team not advancing to put on high pressure. It's like the back four were so fixated on keeping this deep line with counter-attacking play that we had such a stretched team at times with only Alexis and maybe one or two others actually pushing on. It was frustrating to watch. I couldn't understand why Koscielny wasn't leading the back line to advance forwards.

Quazzie

mansize wrote: »

I wouldn't want Simone.

My first choice is Leipzig, Howe probably second. Not Simone.

Who would you guys put in charge?

Do you mean Ralph Hasenhüttl? If so the following post from you makes little to no sense, because I highly doubt you heard of this manager more that 6 months ago. In fact you didn't seem to know his name even now. Do you care to explain why you would choose this manager over so many others?

mansize wrote: »

If only I jumped on the latest fads

mansize

Quazzie wrote: »

Do you mean Ralph Hasenhüttl? If so the following post from you makes little to no sense, because I highly doubt you heard of this manager more that 6 months ago. In fact you didn't seem to know his name even now. Do you care to explain why you would choose this manager over so many others?

Arsene seems to prefer him and I bow to his knowledge and experience

mansize

If we had enough money to have quality XI and subs Özil and Sanchez wouldn't have to play as many games

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Quazzie wrote: »

Do you mean Ralph Hasenhüttl? If so the following post from you makes little to no sense, because I highly doubt you heard of this manager more that 6 months ago. In fact you didn't seem to know his name even now. Do you care to explain why you would choose this manager over so many others?

I honestly wouldn't waste my time...

mansize

mansize wrote: »

Arsene seems to prefer him and I bow to his knowledge and experience

Where has Arsene Wenger stated his preference for him??? Care to provide a source??

Quazzie

mansize wrote: »

Arsene seems to prefer him and I bow to his knowledge and experience

Have you any link to where Wenger has stated that he prefers Ralph Hasenhüttl?

mansize

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/2294046/arsenal-news-gunners-contact-rb-leipzig-boss-ralph-hasenhuttl-as-they-seek-arsene-wengers-successor/amp/?client=safari


It's the model of working under Wenger and willingness to do so. It would appear from reports that Wenger is involved in this.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

mansize wrote: »

If we had enough money to have quality XI and subs Özil and Sanchez wouldn't have to play as many games

I genuinely don't know whether you're trolling or if you believe the shìt you write here.

FIFTH richest club in the WORLD...Only behind Real, Barca, man united and Bayern.

Our squad is great...On paper, Wenger buys good players still...But can he motivate them, can he fuk.

Quazzie

mansize wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/2294046/arsenal-news-gunners-contact-rb-leipzig-boss-ralph-hasenhuttl-as-they-seek-arsene-wengers-successor/amp/?client=safari


It's the model of working under Wenger and willingness to do so. It would appear from reports that Wenger is involved in this.

Where does it state in that article that Ralph Hasenhüttl is the choice of Arsene Wenger?

mansize

Quazzie wrote: »

Where does it state in that article that Ralph Hasenhüttl is the choice of Arsene Wenger?

I explained how I qualified that. It seems that Wenger and he would have a working relationship so Wenger would have to be involved in appointing his successor- do you believe he should be involved or not?

mansize

I hold no sway in the words of Gary Neville- he's paid by sky to be a controversial reactionary pundit- the Katie Hopkins of football.

Those who can manage, those who can't pundit...