Marie Stopes clinic suspends services

Smondie

Tasden wrote: »

Does that act not still stand until it is ammended, regardless of whether the 8th ammendment is repealed or not? I thought only the constitutional right of the unborn, which you refer to above, is removed, not the legislation surrounding abortions. The legislation is made and changed in line with the constitutional rights, or lack thereof. Is this not right?

The act would have to be amended if the 8th is repealed as it is currently wrote as the unborn having rights. If the unborn have no rights there is no need for any of the conditions in the act to be met.

astrofool

Smondie wrote: »

Your quote about how I want to brow beat the Christian fellowship in to people highlights how narrow minded you are on this issue. I have provided loads of other links. And you ignore other mp's that have commented in the article.

It is best practice to be seen by doctors and the nhs still go by this procedure in thier clinics. http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Abortion/Pages/Introduction.aspx
The department of health didn't include it in the guidelines because it is not explicitly stated in the act and would require a change in leglislation to do so. Private clinics do not have to as it is not explictly stated.

The guidelines are not just about nurses giving tablets:
It gives the example of nurses administering the necessary drugs in medical abortions but does not rule out the possibility of them carrying out surgical procedures....

But abortion providers said the guidelines did not go far enough. Tracey McNeill, the director of Marie Stopes International, said: “It is entirely unnecessary for women to see a doctor.

“Nurses are often much better at dealing with the emotional and psychological needs of women.”

What are you on about imposing my beliefs on others? You do know this is a discussion board and not compulsary reading? Can you not make your point without the aggressive tone?

To be fair, any responses I make are directed at others who are reading this thread to expose you as a charlatan with a thinly veiled agenda on this issue.

You are not trying to expose "safety" concerns on these places, you're somehow trying to conflate what happened with the UK Marie Stopes clinics that, we Irish, send our women over to, with some other battle in the war on abortion.

If you're that concerned about the safety of the clinics, then we should open them here, and you can watch over them yourself and ensure they are at least achieving a level of excellence comparable to the average Irish hospital. Agreed?

Just remember, when you get pregnant, don't get an abortion. When the urge overtakes you, don't, you don't believe in it. Leave the rest of the population to make their own choice.

Smondie

astrofool wrote: »

To be fair, any responses I make are directed at others who are reading this thread to expose you as a charlatan with a thinly veiled agenda on this issue.

You are not trying to expose "safety" concerns on these places, you're somehow trying to conflate what happened with the UK Marie Stopes clinics that, we Irish, send our women over to, with some other battle in the war on abortion.

If you're that concerned about the safety of the clinics, then we should open them here, and you can watch over them yourself and ensure they are at least achieving a level of excellence comparable to the average Irish hospital. Agreed?

Just remember, when you get pregnant, don't get an abortion. When the urge overtakes you, don't, you don't believe in it. Leave the rest of the population to make their own choice.

Expose me as charlatan? What planet are you on?

The Care Quality Commission carried out the inspection and wrote the reports not me! :pac:


Any sign of you producing those standards abortion clinic are held to?

astrofool

Smondie wrote: »

---

Repealing the 8th as i understand it.

The 8th amendment recognises the right to life of an unborn child. By repealing the eight all rights of the unborn will be removed, resulting in the introduction of abortion on demand without the need to meet any conditions.

---

For someone so invested in this issue, not knowing the answer to the above should be a criminal offence.

Repealing the 8th does no such thing, in any way, in the slightest under any circumstances at all. Just to be clear, you are completely 100% categorically wrong on the above statement.

What repealing the 8th does do is allow the oireachtas to implement legislation covering the rights of the unborn, varying from the exact same situation we have today, up to legal abortion for those who want an abortion. The democratically elected legislature would set the circumstances that abortion is allowed under, instead of the constitution.

If the 8th was repealed today, nothing would change until the legislation around abortion also changed.

astrofool

Smondie wrote: »

Expose me as charlatan? What planet are you on?

char·la·tan
ˈSHärlədən,ˈSHärlətn/
noun
noun: charlatan; plural noun: charlatans
a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill; a fraud.

You're making claims that have no back up in reality, with a knowledge of the subject that borders on the dangerous.

Smondie

astrofool wrote: »

For someone so invested in this issue, not knowing the answer to the above should be a criminal offence.

Repealing the 8th does no such thing, in any way, in the slightest under any circumstances at all. Just to be clear, you are completely 100% categorically wrong on the above statement.

What repealing the 8th does do is allow the oireachtas to implement legislation covering the rights of the unborn, varying from the exact same situation we have today, up to legal abortion for those who want an abortion. The democratically elected legislature would set the circumstances that abortion is allowed under, instead of the constitution.

If the 8th was repealed today, nothing would change until the legislation around abortion also changed.

Yes it does. If you actually read what the eight amendment states you might understand a bit more.

But you know it will as you then state:

astrofool wrote: »

up to legal abortion for those who want an abortion

or in other words abortion on demand which is what I said!

Smondie

astrofool wrote: »

You're making claims that have no back up in reality, with a knowledge of the subject that borders on the dangerous.

Any link to the higher standards abortion clinics are held to as you claimed. It seems you who are making claims not backed up with reality!

If you can't produce them you must be a Charlatan.

veronymus

Smondie wrote: »

The act would have to be amended if the 8th is repealed as it is currently wrote as the unborn having rights. If the unborn have no rights there is no need for any of the conditions in the act to be met.

The Act most certainly would not have to be amended. It operates harmoniously with article 40 of the Constitution but is not dependant on it. If the eight amendment were to be repealed, it would not follow that the Act is defunct. It might however be vulnerable to a constitutional challenge on the grounds that it is incompatible with the right to privacy/bodily autonomy/family life etc.

Incidentally, the Act to which you refer confers no rights on the unborn; they are to be found in the Constitution. The word 'right' does not feature once. But if we are to read between the lines with regard to 'rights', in my opinion, it is much more correctly described as an Act which circumscribes the rights of pregnant women.

thee glitz

If it's being widely abused, the licensing system should be abandoned. The nhs could then ensure that all requirements have been met where an abortion is necessary, and that the procedure is carried out with care. I'm not surprised that an enterprise designed to circumvent government guidelines might be a bit dodgy.

Tasden

astrofool wrote: »

For someone so invested in this issue, not knowing the answer to the above should be a criminal offence.

Repealing the 8th does no such thing, in any way, in the slightest under any circumstances at all. Just to be clear, you are completely 100% categorically wrong on the above statement.

What repealing the 8th does do is allow the oireachtas to implement legislation covering the rights of the unborn, varying from the exact same situation we have today, up to legal abortion for those who want an abortion. The democratically elected legislature would set the circumstances that abortion is allowed under, instead of the constitution.

If the 8th was repealed today, nothing would change until the legislation around abortion also changed.

This was my understanding of repealing the eighth. And I think there is a lot of confusion about what it actually means Tbf. Even in this thread it is being discussed in the same context as late term abortions and abortions on demand. And these things could indeed be legislated for if the 8th ammendment were to be removed however I think discussing the two in the same context confuses people and actually further cements the fears of people who actually do want to liberalise (?) abortion laws. I understand that if you repeal it then there is no longer the same protection for the unborn over the woman and with that may come legislation that people do not necessarily agree with but the issue people are being asked to possibly vote on is repealing the eighth and so what that actually means should be highlighted more imo.

Smondie

thee glitz wrote: »

If it's being widely abused, the licensing system should be abandoned. The nhs could then ensure that all requirements have been met where an abortion is necessary, and that the procedure is carried out with care. I'm not surprised that an enterprise designed to circumvent government guidelines might be a bit dodgy.

Thr chief executive of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, calls for the resignation of the Marie stopes chief over huge failures that led to the suspension of services


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3752228/Marie-Stopes-chief-faces-calls-resign-huge-failure-led-halting-abortions-clinics.html

Smondie

Judge calls for urgent review into 'what went wrong' after prosecutors drop the case against medics over a woman died following an abortion

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3668082/Judge-calls-urgent-review-went-wrong-prosecutors-drop-case-against-medics-woman-died-following-abortion.html