Football stadiums and stands - the good and the bad...

yabadabado · 13-05-2017 12:35pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You know when I first saw it finished and saw that small end I thought" Oh great another good 3/4 done stadium", but have to say once the place is full(or near full house) it still has a tremendous atmosphere and the chants stay inside the stadium.

Its modern, but it feels like it has still that Old Way feel about it. Have to say I love Lansdowne Road as much now as I do before it was Built again

I can't warm to new lansdowne at all,I can't believe they build it like that with the sloped off end.There had to be some other way around it.
I've been in it I'd say 50+ times at this stage and that away end still annoys me when I see it.
The facilities are good but the atmosphere isn't a patch on old Lansdowne imo.

I always thought they should have looked more in moving to the old glass bottle factory site.

MarkY91 · 13-05-2017 12:37pm

yabadabado wrote: »

I can't warm to new lansdowne at all,I can't believe they build it like that with the sloped off end.There had to be some other way around it.
I've been in it I'd say 50+ times at this stage and that away end still annoys me when I see it.
The facilities are good but the atmosphere isn't a patch on old Lansdowne imo.

I always thought they should have looked more in moving to the old glass bottle factory site.

I always think of what the away fans think when they see it. I reckon they laugh at it. I know I would.

Our 2 bog stadiums embarrass me with Their small ends. Shocking stuff

Dirty Dingus McGee · 13-05-2017 12:55pm

MarkY91 wrote: »

I always think of what the away fans think when they see it. I reckon they laugh at it. I know I would.

Our 2 bog stadiums embarrass me with Their small ends. Shocking stuff

Not really.The Seattle Seahawks stadium has something similar as does the New England Patriots stadium so it isn't really just an Irish thing, also for the 2 big stadiums in Dublin they have to have uneven shape due to planning/space restrictions.Stadiums of uneven shape look unique and actually have a bit of character to them and look a hell of a lot better than the bowl shape template that is used for most stadiums built in Europe in the last 20 years.

Richard Hillman · 13-05-2017 1:09pm

There was a small comment by a contributor on second captains this week about how the Emirates stadium didn't work out for atmosphere. He mentioned something about how the banks of the stands need to be steep to conduct an atmosphere.

If you look at Emirates, Lansdowne Road and Etihad stadium (to a lesser extent) they are all pretty flat first tiers and very quiet stadiums. Croke Park would be another one. Really flat and deep on 3 sides of the ground.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-05-2017 1:16pm

Not buying the No Atmosphere at Lansdowne bit. When its full its very good

MarkY91 · 13-05-2017 1:21pm

Ah but still. It's embarrassing to look at. Faircenligh with 1 fill tier the height of the other 3 sides bit it's just a row of about 10 seats. I'm pretty sure the England fans were singing "my garden shed is bigger than this" during the friendly??

I've been to the Aviva about 12 times at this stage and it's a beautiful stadium aside from my mentions above. I usually dislike the modern day stadium like the Emirates but the singing section at the Aviva makes a great atmosphere.

KaiserGunner · 13-05-2017 1:21pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

There was a small comment by a contributor on second captains this week about how the Emirates stadium didn't work out for atmosphere. He mentioned something about how the banks of the stands need to be steep to conduct an atmosphere.

If you look at Emirates, Lansdowne Road and Etihad stadium (to a lesser extent) they are all pretty flat first tiers and very quiet stadiums. Croke Park would be another one. Really flat and deep on 3 sides of the ground.

I don't really agree with that tbh. Just using the premier league as an example, there is really no atmosphere at all 20 stadiums on a match day. It's nothing to do with steepness of the stands as what's the excuse for the lack of atmosphere at the older stadiums? The Emirates and the Etihad are easy targets for comments on lack of atmosphere, but I've been to Anfield and Old Trafford and the atmosphere was no better.

KaiserGunner · 13-05-2017 1:24pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Not buying the No Atmosphere at Lansdowne bit. When its full its very good

Which when Ireland in the football is quite a rare thing. Half full for the majority of games.

MarkY91 · 13-05-2017 1:25pm

KaiserGunner wrote: »

I don't really agree with that tbh. Just using the premier league as an example, there is really no atmosphere at all 20 stadiums on a match day. It's nothing to do with steepness of the stands as what's the excuse for the lack of atmosphere at the older stadiums? The Emirates and the Etihad are easy targets for comments on lack of atmosphere, but I've been to Anfield and Old Trafford and the atmosphere was no better.

Been to anfield many times and the atmosphere was horrendous except for 2014 when we beat man city the year we came 2nd. It was magical that time.

The locals blame "daytrippers" for the lack of atmosphere but funnily enough it's the locals turning up 5 minutes into a game and leaving anywhere from 80th min to final whistle. But it's the daytrippers fault, apparently.

Bridge93 · 13-05-2017 1:26pm

What do those who hate the small end suggest they do instead? They weren't allowed to build it like the rest of the ground.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-05-2017 1:26pm

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Which when Ireland in the football is quite a rare thing. Half full for the majority of games.

Ya but for games like Germany and Bosnia and even Wales it was very good.

I have been to pretty much all the big stadiums in big leagues at this stage and Lansdowne aint worst or even near it.

I was in San Siro at half full and it was rubbish. But been there when full too and was amazing

Brendan Flowers · 13-05-2017 1:30pm

Bridge93 wrote: »

What do those who hate the small end suggest they do instead? They weren't allowed to build it like the rest of the ground.

There could be a very obvious reason why not and I might be making a fool of myself even asking, but could they not have made the pitch surface a significant distance below ground level? I know they still wouldnt have been able to do that end like the rest of the ground but it would have allowed for a bigger stand.

kksaints · 13-05-2017 1:34pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Not buying the No Atmosphere at Lansdowne bit. When its full its very good

Don't think it even needs to be full. Atmosphere has been very good for the FAI Cup finals I have attended. Think for a good atmosphere its more that you need opposition fans to sort of bounce off which you don't always get at Ireland internationals.

Bridge93 · 13-05-2017 1:35pm

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

There could be a very obvious reason why not and I might be making a fool of myself even asking, but could they not have made the pitch surface a significant distance below ground level? I know they still wouldnt have been able to do that end like the rest of the ground but it would have allowed for a bigger stand.

From living in the area the water table is extremely close to the surface. It's the nature of living so close to the coast I think. Pretty unsubstantial rain leaves a lot of surface water around Sandymount. Digging down not very far would present severe problems with drainage

Fr Tod Umptious · 13-05-2017 2:10pm

There was a feature on the BBC website showing the premier league teams that have moved on the last few decades.

One thing I noticed was the stadiums in for example Sunderland, Middleborough, Hull, Leicester, Southampton, etc are all very generic, none of them seem a whole lot different from the other.

I can see why too though, they are all smaller market teams and thus these generic 25k-35k stadiums are about a good as they can get for their budget

Here is the link actually

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39892733

Richard Hillman · 13-05-2017 2:33pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Not buying the No Atmosphere at Lansdowne bit. When its full its very good

I agree but it's like that at Arsenal too for big games. Without the singing section at LR, it would be seriously dead.

And fittingly this is the section the FAI want gone :pac:

NIMAN · 13-05-2017 2:39pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Not buying the No Atmosphere at Lansdowne bit. When its full its very good

Stadiums don't make atmosphere, fans do.

The reason the older Lansdowne Road was noisier is likely down to the fact that fans these days don't make as much noise as they did 20 years ago.

Agree with kksaints, have been at a few FAI Cup finals with maybe 15-18000 fans, and the atmosphere was good. Probably just because we were beating Pats again!

yabadabado · 13-05-2017 2:56pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

And fittingly this is the section the FAI want gone :pac:

Do they ? First I've heard of that.

kksaints · 13-05-2017 2:59pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Stadiums don't make atmosphere, fans do.

The reason the older Lansdowne Road was noisier is likely down to the fact that fans these days don't make as much noise as they did 20 years ago.

Agree with kksaints, have been at a few FAI Cup finals with maybe 15-18000 fans, and the atmosphere was good. Probably just because we were beating Pats again!

Weren't there at 2014 were you?

That had the best atmosphere at any match that I can remember

yabadabado · 13-05-2017 2:59pm

Bridge93 wrote: »

What do those who hate the small end suggest they do instead? They weren't allowed to build it like the rest of the ground.

If the site wasn't big enough for a new modern stadium then they should have looked elsewhere.

Why try to squeeze something on to the site and have to compromise from day one.This was going to be the national football/rugby stadium for the next 60 years.

Richard Hillman · 13-05-2017 3:04pm

yabadabado wrote: »

Do they ? First I've heard of that.

Have you ever seen the security around it? The only section at LR that get bag checks and pat downs at the entrance are at the 114 section. The only section in the entire stadium to have stewards permanently stationed in the walkways to ensure nobody unfurls a John Delaney related banner.

When England arrived there were more stewards around the singing section than the England end :pac:

If John Delaney could get away with ending it, he would. He is playing a long term game in trying to make it into a place where nobody wants to be.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-05-2017 3:05pm

kksaints wrote: »

Don't think it even needs to be full. Atmosphere has been very good for the FAI Cup finals I have attended. Think for a good atmosphere its more that you need opposition fans to sort of bounce off which you don't always get at Ireland internationals.

True, it does not need to be full, but if you look at stadiums that have good atmosphere when only 50% or so full most of the fans are bunched into the lower section or section where they are all together.

Stadiums where fans are all over the stadium would have same effect even for FAI Cup final. Thankfully they don't.

fullstop · 13-05-2017 3:06pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Have you ever seen the security around it? The only section at LR that get back checks and pat downs are at the 114 section. The only section in the entire stadium to have stewards permanently stationed in the walkways to ensure nobody unfurls a John Delaney related banner.

When England arrived there were more stewards around the singing section than the England end :pac:

If John Delaney could get away with ending it, he would. He is playing a long term game in trying to make it into a place where nobody wants to be.

Yep, it's disgraceful, was very noticeable during the Wales game on tv with a steward on every 2nd step.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-05-2017 3:07pm

Im usually in around the singing section, and have to say stewards seem be always on lookout for Flags and Banners.

Was at Georgia game and you could see more stewards around that part of Stadium then anywhere. Not that they're 100s more about 5 or 10

yabadabado · 13-05-2017 3:12pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Have you ever seen the security around it? The only section at LR that get bag checks and pat downs at the entrance are at the 114 section. The only section in the entire stadium to have stewards permanently stationed in the walkways to ensure nobody unfurls a John Delaney related banner.

When England arrived there were more stewards around the singing section than the England end :pac:

If John Delaney could get away with ending it, he would. He is playing a long term game in trying to make it into a place where nobody wants to be.

I know all about the security as I am in 114 for most games but I have yet to hear of FAI closing the singing section and was told by a fairly reliable source there was discussions about making it bigger(113 I think) as it is fully sold out with ST sales the last 2 years .IfJD is playing a long term game it ain't working as SS has never been as popular.

Bridge93 · 13-05-2017 4:38pm

yabadabado wrote: »

If the site wasn't big enough for a new modern stadium then they should have looked elsewhere.

Why try to squeeze something on to the site and have to compromise from day one.This was going to be the national football/rugby stadium for the next 60 years.

Well they would be compromising by moving from where they are too? I imagine it was cheaper first off to build on land that they owned then have to buy the plot elsewhere and then build.
It is also one of the most easily accessible international stadiums in the world. Moving would compromise this. The old glass bottle factory would have been alright. But matchday would cause absolute mayhem with traffic trying to get across the city or use the toll bridge. Its a bit of a walk from the DART and busy bus routes too.

This is leaving aside the fact I think it looks fine as it is. Its different from the standard modern bowl design. Do we really need a 65,000 seater stadium? We fill it maybe 6/7 times a year.

NIMAN · 13-05-2017 6:06pm

kksaints wrote: »

Weren't there at 2014 were you? That had the best atmosphere at any match that I can remember

Yeah I was at that one too, but I much preferred 2012.

Richard Hillman · 13-05-2017 7:25pm

yabadabado wrote: »

I know all about the security as I am in 114 for most games but I have yet to hear of FAI closing the singing section and was told by a fairly reliable source there was discussions about making it bigger(113 I think) as it is fully sold out with ST sales the last 2 years .IfJD is playing a long term game it ain't working as SS has never been as popular.

It's not a case of closing it, it is about making it so inhospitable that people just don't want to be there any more.

Fr Tod Umptious · 13-05-2017 8:55pm

yabadabado wrote: »

If the site wasn't big enough for a new modern stadium then they should have looked elsewhere.

Why try to squeeze something on to the site and have to compromise from day one.This was going to be the national football/rugby stadium for the next 60 years.

Were you around in the late 90s early 2000s when this whole debate about a new stadium was going on ?

LR was the best option for a new stadium.

Ad it's a fine stadium, 50k capaciy is about right.

It will last a long time.

OldMrBrennan83 · 14-05-2017 12:16am

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Bridge93 · 14-05-2017 12:45am

Patww79 wrote: »

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How is having the national stadium close to the centre of the biggest city in the country a horrible location? You have:

Train access which outside the m50 wouldn't have

Buses from all directions which would have to be privately organised to get people who don't drive out to this new venue. Away fans would need organised buses too. These are more expensive than public transport.

Walking distance from the centre of Dublin if you so wish, Dublin centre being a pretty natural start point for a lot of people arriving into the city.

Parking spaces are at a premium but there are a large number of park and rides scattered across the city at every major dart station and a few Luas stops. Parking does exist in the area if you know where to look or google it.

Pubs, restaurants etc which are needed. If people have to drive they can't drink. Whether you like it or not a lot of people enjoy a drink before/during/after an event.

Where are you going to get land to build a stadium and car park that could hold 20,000 cars if not more? The cost would be horrific

Most the games played by the national teams are at night. While those going back down the country would be doing so anyway if that was their plan after the game, trying to get that volume of traffic back into Dublin in the late evening/night would be a massive turnoff for people seen as they've no choice but to be stuck in traffic at 10pm (there's no public transport to take).

When you're in a city or town the crowd can naturally disperse in a number of directions p, help the flow and congestion getting out. Any happen if everyone is going to the same carpark and same roads

OldMrBrennan83 · 14-05-2017 6:56am

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Bridge93 · 14-05-2017 2:58pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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And how is it any easier to get to a ground with no transport bar cars?

OldMrBrennan83 · 14-05-2017 3:00pm

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Bridge93 · 14-05-2017 3:02pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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And if you don't drive? Or you're an away fan? Or want to have a drink? The traffic caused if everyone drove would be far worse than any busy train or bus

OldMrBrennan83 · 14-05-2017 3:05pm

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Bridge93 · 14-05-2017 3:12pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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None of the roads in the midlands, or anywhere in the country are equipped to take that volume if traffic, it would be chaos. It isn't job done you haven't a clue.

Your second point is pure nonsense and derails any remnant of sense you may have had. Let's not care about those who can't drive. Great idea for those trying to get crowds to games. Major stadium in main city shocker. It has to be built somewhere. Would it be any better in Galway? Or cork? A single stadium will be in one location, your argument seems to be it's not beside me so **** it. Every major international ground in the world is in the capital or a major city.
None of them are built in the middle of nowhere with no infrastructure to support them

inforfun · 14-05-2017 3:41pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

http://www.archdaily.com/800531/omas-masterplan-for-feyenoord-city-in-rotterdam-approved

Feyenoord's new ground has been approved.
The old ground will be kept (sort of) to include appartments, shopping areas, a park,...

I ll miss De Kuip

https://twitter.com/FOXSportsnl/status/863762906436993024

Zebra3 · 14-05-2017 4:32pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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I'll make a wild guess.

You don't work in town planning.

OldMrBrennan83 · 14-05-2017 4:35pm

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Zebra3 · 14-05-2017 5:11pm

They build huge stadiums outside cities in the US.

Takes hours for people to drive to them and to drive back.

OldMrBrennan83 · 14-05-2017 5:14pm

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Oat23 · 14-05-2017 5:23pm

inforfun wrote: »

I ll miss De Kuip

Off topic but we haven't got an Eredivisie thread and I wanted to say congrats on winning the league.

14-05-2017 6:32pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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Funny, I live 90k from it and it takes less than a couple of hours for me to get to it by public transport.

pappyodaniel · 15-05-2017 4:49am

Looks class, not your typical gaa ground and they've retained it's original best feature, the bowl.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/a-tour-of-p%C3%A1irc-u%C3%AD-chaoimh-the-old-ground-in-its-best-new-clothes-1.3082675

dan1895 · 15-05-2017 7:49am

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Looks class, not your typical gaa ground and they've retained it's original best feature, the bowl.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/a-tour-of-p%C3%A1irc-u%C3%AD-chaoimh-the-old-ground-in-its-best-new-clothes-1.3082675

Looks like something that a second division Spanish team might of thrown up in the 90's. Very uninspiring design for something built in 2017.

Jelle1880 · 15-05-2017 9:19am

It seems nice but whoever thought of building a ground with uncovered areas in Ireland...

inforfun · 15-05-2017 2:25pm

Oat23 wrote: »

Off topic but we haven't got an Eredivisie thread and I wanted to say congrats on winning the league.

Thanks!

GoldFour4 · 20-05-2017 5:19pm

Not sure whether this has been posted. Philadelphia Union stadium in MLS.

fullstop · 20-05-2017 10:12pm

Patww79 wrote: »

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It's absolutely not a disaster, and great that it's so close to the city. Look at somewhere like ANZ Stadium in Sydney, out in the western suburbs. They have to put on trains especially for events there, massive queues to get said trains, an hour journey out from the city, one or two ****ty bars in the Olympic Park outside the ground, rammed. Not enough restaurants to cater for more than a couple of hundred people. The stadium is soulless and people end up leaving early to avoid queueing for an hour to get a train back to the city, or to get to one of the massive carparks, some of which are half an hours walk away.

Even Stade de France of Amsterdam Arena (although I haven't been there in years) are good examples of building in the arse hole of nowhere of a city and have nothing going for them except the stadium itself.

Stadia near the middle of cities are great and can make for a great atmosphere and occasion - LR, The Millennium are good examples.

Football stadiums and stands - the good and the bad...

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