Our dogs are making us homeless!

batdog16

Hi guys, first time posting! So basically at the start of August we moved into a new house (renting) and we were upfront about the fact that we have dogs (5). That was all fine, we moved in but it's a private landlord and we never got a lease (stupid mistake I know). Not long after we moved in the landlord popped over as we needed something fixed and the dogs started barking at him (not aggressively) as they had never met him before. This made the landlord uncomfortable and we've now been told he's changed his mind and we are only welcome to stay as tenants if we have one dog only and give away the rest. Obviously we're not going to do that so we have until the end of this month to find another home and move all our stuff out! 90 percent of places I enquire about don't accept any pets so I was looking for some advice on what to do - do we keep quiet about the dogs and run the risk of being thrown out again or how can we approach finding somewhere to accept us and our fur children?! Any advice welcome thanks!

Stheno

You'll need to be upfront about the dogs, I'm amazed you found a place to rent that accepted five dogs to be honest.

Where in the country are you?

batdog16

Working in Dublin, the place we're in at the moment is in Meath so I'm looking at the surrounding counties of Dublin cause of rent prices so Meath, Louth, Kildare, Wicklow - we'd take anywhere decent at this stage!

Stheno

batdog16 wrote: »

Working in Dublin, the place we're in at the moment is in Meath so I'm looking at the surrounding counties of Dublin cause of rent prices so Meath, Louth, Kildare, Wicklow - we'd take anywhere decent at this stage!

I'd suggest you start looking at rural properties to be honest, most of where you are looking to rent are madness at the moment.

Five dogs will put you at a serious disadvantage, could you try to rehome any of them?

batdog16

I don't think we could face rehoming any of them, they're like our children! I've accepted we'll have to find somewhere a good bit away from Dub, prop an hours drive in some direction!

VonVix

What kind of dogs do you have?

I have heard it said that if you give an additional deposit (because you have pets) in the form of cash, up front, that sometimes a landlord will be seriously tempted. Enquire even about properties that don't mention anything about pets, but bring it up after a viewing.

Some people even don't mention anything about their pets initially, they do the viewing, meet the landlord, wait to hear they have been chosen and THEN bring up the pets (plus extra deposit) Ireland is appalling when it comes to renting with pets.

You probably have done this already, but have you selected the "Pets Allowed" option on Daft.ie under the Advanced Options > Facilities setting?

Stheno

batdog16 wrote: »

I don't think we could face rehoming any of them, they're like our children! I've accepted we'll have to find somewhere a good bit away from Dub, prop an hours drive in some direction!

I honestly think you'll be going further

beechwood55

So will they be alone all day while you are gone to work? That may be problematic if they bark a lot and you have near neighbours.

zoe 3619

You're pretty lucky to have found a landlord that will take that many dogs.
Have a chat with him and see what his issues are,and how you can keep him happy.
Maybe an increased deposit in case they cause damage,offering to pay up front for carpet cleaning etc for when you leave.
Or offer to keep some of the dogs outside ina shed or kennel?

alroley

I would agree with the advice about giving an extra deposit. I found this worked when I was looking for somewhere. Places that don't mention pets allowed were okay with my dog when I said I would pay an extra deposit for him. But, I only have the one dog, and he's very small. Hope it works for you too though!

Do you have a reference about the dogs from any previous landlord? Being able to provide that may help?

Stheno

What breeds are the five dogs?

ShaShaBear

I do find when you move to smaller towns (the cheaper rent is a good indicator) you have more luck. I couldn't get anywhere in Louth with my old boy when I rented there, but since I moved home to Monaghan I've been in 3 different houses, all 3 totally fine with my dog. Granted, that's one dog. But the first house I rented now has a couple with three labs and I had three dogs in my current house at one stage too! We're an hour from Dublin and in the particular town I live in, you're on the motorway in about 10 minutes!

uck51js9zml2yt

The thread title is misleading.
OP you are making yourself homeless by having 5 dogs.
If you won't rehome them it's your choice.
They are not children.
If you found a house you like and an area that suits you, you've a choice to make.
The LL allowing you keep 1 dog is reasonable in my opinion.

sillysmiles

Arely Shy Tanner wrote: »

The thread title is misleading.
OP you are making yourself homeless by having 5 dogs.
If you won't rehome them it's your choice.
They are not children.
If you found a house you like and an area that suits you, you've a choice to make.
The LL allowing you keep 1 dog is reasonable in my opinion.

I think it is disengenious to assume that it is that easy to rehome dogs to good home. I'm not sure why you seem to be attacking the OP for standing by his responsiblity to look after his dogs.

intheclouds

I dont understand how you thought you could have 5 dogs and be able to find somewhere to rent?

Surely that level of dog ownership requires you to own your own property?

I cant imagine any landlord accepting tenants who own 5 dogs. 1 or even 2 dogs maybe, but 5 is excessive.

uck51js9zml2yt

sillysmiles wrote: »

I think it is disengenious to assume that it is that easy to rehome dogs to good home. I'm not sure why you seem to be attacking the OP for standing by his responsiblity to look after his dogs.

I attacked no one.
If the op puts a dog over their own well-being and housing needs so be it,
The only thing disingenuous is blaming the dogs on their predicament.

Chuchote

Definitely look for a country place (with a good fence so your dogs can't roam). North Wexford is an hour from Dublin on the motorway now.
Odd landlord not to offer a lease, though; it might be worth talking to PTSB (tenancy board) to see could you get a longer notice period to allow you to house-hunt.

Markcheese

Its laudable that you're sticking by your dogs, bbbuuuttt if it was my property I wouldnt let some one with 5 dogs or even 3 rent it ...
Try reassure the existing land lord.
Are the dogs ever inside ?? Can you keep them out the back /in a run .. they will make ****e of the garden ..

Musketeer4

OP, that you found a landlord who initially accepted 5, FIVE! dogs means you were either incredibly lucky or else the landlord had a lapse of judgement and is now seeing sense.

Whatever about a landlord accepting one dog, five dogs is way beyond a reasonable risk for any sane land lord to take on.

You are going to find it virtually impossible to secure rental accomodation with that many dogs. Like, its hard enough even without any pets!

You need to get your priorities in order. What is more important to you? Dogs or having a roof over your head?

To be honest OP, you really need to own your own property to even consider owning that many animals. This situation you've gotten yourself into was not wise.

And they are not children. They are dogs.

Stoner

Musketeer4 wrote:

And they are not children. They are dogs.

True, I say the biggest thing was the smell, I've two dogs and it's a struggle to deal with the whiff.
I honestly don't know if any LL would accept 5 dogs.

cocker5

Musketeer4 wrote: »

OP, that you found a landlord who initially accepted 5, FIVE! dogs means you were either incredibly lucky or else the landlord had a lapse of judgement and is now seeing sense.

Whatever about a landlord accepting one dog, five dogs is way beyond a reasonable risk for any sane land lord to take on.

You are going to find it virtually impossible to secure rental accomodation with that many dogs. Like, its hard enough even without any pets!

You need to get your priorities in order. What is more important to you? Dogs or having a roof over your head?

To be honest OP, you really need to own your own property to even consider owning that many animals. This situation you've gotten yourself into was not wise.

And they are not children. They are dogs.

I don't see the relevance of this point to be honest. Being a responsible dog owner means keeping a dog for its life span - and when situations like this arise you try and find a way around -not get "rid" of the dogs.

on the other hand having 5 dogs without owning your own home is madness.. to be honest even owning one dog without being a property owner its very risky and not something i would do personally.

cocker5

Stoner wrote: »

True, I say the biggest thing was the smell, I've two dogs and it's a struggle to deal with the whiff.
I honestly don't know if any LL would accept 5 dogs.

smell?? my dog lives indoors and there is no smell... he is clipped tight (little hair no shedding), gets washed every few weeks , his beds are washed every week.. thats just poor hygiene on the owners behalf im afraid

Shint0

If you do end up having to move out and if you manage to find another property make sure you have it included in any lease that is drawn up that the dogs are permitted or if it's just a standard lease have an addendum attached to the same effect with any terms and conditions included e.g. if you need to pay an extra deposit for the pets.

As others have said you might struggle to find suitable accommodation that meets your criteria with that many dogs so trying to renegotiate with the current landlord might be your best option. He might have had a reason for not drawing up a lease just to see the state of play and if he felt they could be a nuisance or threatening he would have a right to terminate the tenancy on those grounds and serve you proper notice.

Generally landlords don't like to go to all the trouble of finding tenants, letting the property and having to terminate the tenancy after such a short period then readvertise it again so his concerns might have been genuine. As it stands if you had no lease in place and if he has served you proper notice without changing his mind then you will have to look elsewhere.

bmwguy

I love dogs, I have posted about my Labrador here before. But, if I was renting out my 3 bed house in a Dublin suburb, there is absolutely no way I would choose you and your 5 dogs over someone with no dogs.

I did rent my house out for a year before when I moved to limerick on a 1 year project and I got an estate agent to do it for me. He turned down 1 couple because they had a 2 year old child, in his experience they write on walls with crayons etc, he eventually went with a couple with 2 kids aged between 10 and 12.

The potential damage of 5 dogs is absolutely huge, remember the landlord does not know your dogs and won't care if you say they are well behaved etc.

The reason he could do this was choice, he had a huge choice of potential tenants, demand exceeded supply as we all know in Dublin.

Your only choice would be to go somewhere that the landlord is only delighted to have a tenant, so look at areas not in demand. This is going to take you out of normal Dublin commuter belt.

On the upside, rent will be cheaper, you might get bigger garden more suited to dogs, no neighbours on top of you that dogs might annoy.

On the downside, you will be traveling a lot more on your commute

beveragelady

Who do so many people think it's helpful to point out that the OP's situation is of his or her own making? At no point did the OP try to blame the state, the church, the EU or any other outside force for the fact that five dogs make househunting difficult.

I had one dog when I lived in Dublin and when it was time to move house I discovered that it was easier to leave my job and find another one in the country than it was to find a house that would accept my dog. Plenty of people thought I was mental, but I had a responsibility to him that didn't evaporate as soon as he became inconvenient.

Your best bet is probably to find a rural location and talk to people there. Plenty of farmers built nice new houses and moved into them during the Celtic tiger, so they often have more modest homes available to rent. Some (not all, I know, I know) farmers have an aversion to making their business known so they mightn't like to advertise that they have a property to rent. Ask in a local pub, put the word out that you're looking for a place. You might find yourself in a draughty bungalow but there's a decent chance the dogs wont be a problem. The fact is that a landlord who has made a serious investment in a property won't consider allowing dogs, and that's completely understandable. You're looking for someone who isn't particularly houseproud who's just glad of a bit of income from the rent.

Good luck!

A_Sober_Paddy

Arely Shy Tanner wrote: »

The thread title is misleading.
OP you are making yourself homeless by having 5 dogs.
If you won't rehome them it's your choice.
They are not children.
If you found a house you like and an area that suits you, you've a choice to make.
The LL allowing you keep 1 dog is reasonable in my opinion.

For a lot of people their dogs are their children

mcgiggles

I don't know why people are so hell bent on telling the OP to get rid of his/her dogs. They obviously have never been a dog owner!! As the tv ads say, dogs are for life not just for Christmas.

My fella and I moved into a house recently, and told the LL we have a dog and a cat, and he said he didn't care if we had 10 dogs, as long as the house came back to him in the same state that it was when we moved in then its no problem at all. Not all people are against animals.

I don't think its very fair of your LL to turn around and change his mind, yes he is entitled to his opinion and it is his house, but to say that its okay, then say its not okay isn't very fair on you. At least he could have peace of mind that the house would never get broken into :P Mention to him about an extra security deposit and see what he says... don't be put off if ads don't mention pets, let them meet you at a viewing and then bring it up later, if they feel comfortable with you then the dog situation may not be as bad in their eyes.

Good luck!

Dogs aren't toys, telling OP to just get rid of them is a little harsh. We all know dogs are part of the family and you don't just dump them when they become inconvenient

She hasn't blamed anyone else for this either


good luck op

Carlos Orange

bluewolf wrote: »

We all know dogs are part of the family and you don't just dump them when they become inconvenient

Calling being homeless inconvenient seems like a bit of an understatement.

quad_red

zoe 3619 wrote: »

You're pretty lucky to have found a landlord that will take that many dogs.
Have a chat with him and see what his issues are,and how you can keep him happy.
Maybe an increased deposit in case they cause damage,offering to pay up front for carpet cleaning etc for when you leave.
Or offer to keep some of the dogs outside ina shed or kennel?

Even if they're the best behaved dogs in the world, a period of time with a five dogs in a house will require industrial cleaning to 'return' to its previous state (get rid of the smell, hair etc.).

Professional cleaning of carpets, curtains, beds, couches etc.

Maybe factor that in and guarantee a prospective landlord that you're giving money for such a total clean in advance?

Sad Professor

I sympathise, OP. I rent with two dogs and finding somewhere to accept pets is very difficult. And there's always the fear that the landlord will come along mid-tenancy and say he's changed his mind, as happened to you. I've seen a few instances of this happening to tenants recently. I guess in the current market a lot of landlords are deciding they don't want to take any chances and will have no problem finding another tenant.

It's not just dogs. Landlords don't really want tenants with children either as they worry they'll damage the property. So if you had 5 young children I reckon you'd have similar problems finding a place. Generally unless you are a young professional couple who looks like you'll only be renting for a few years, you are probably going to encounter difficulties in the Irish rental market.

I started a thread in the A&P forum recently discussing the advantages of unfurnished properties and a few landlords who rented unfurnished suggested it made them more likely to allow pets. So maybe try searching for unfurnished properties. They are somewhat rare in Ireland though and generally at the high end of the market.

Failing that all you can really do, OP, is try offering a pet deposit and reassure the landlord that you will pay for any damage the dogs cause.

degsie

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

For a lot of people their dogs are their children

A lot of people need a reality check.

Ms Doubtfire1

degsie wrote: »

A lot of people need a reality check.

I am flabbergasted by the amount of people actually saying you should give up your dogs. All I can say to these people is : don't ever get a dog - you're not good enough to own one. Or any pet for that matter.well maybe a goldfish.

Op, a similar thread was on accommodation a while back. if you are longer than 6 month in the premises, you are protected under part4. LL can't cancel the lease unless under very specific circumstances. if you are not more than 6 months, don't be discouraged will find somewhere. Don't check only daft, check done deal, and even the local supermarket.and place adds in supermarkets in the towns you considder. Go for small rural towns. offer more rent or offer to pay extra each month for a renovation funds if required. A friend of mine rents with 8 dogs. I have one but i have 17 cats. good luck!

testaccount123

OP, you should post in the Accommodation & Property forum if you want some actual advice around housing instead of the opinions of people who think dogs are children

Ms Doubtfire1

testaccount123 wrote: »

OP, you should post in the Accommodation & Property forum if you want some actual advice around housing instead of the opinions of people who think dogs are children

I'd disregard that advice. Won't get you anything but grief.OP< think i just found one or 2 properties that could be feasible. Have pm'd you.

intheclouds

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

I am flabbergasted by the amount of people actually saying you should give up your dogs. All I can say to these people is : don't ever get a dog - you're not good enough to own one. Or any pet for that matter.well maybe a goldfish.

Oh for gods sake, there is no need to be so dramatic.

If I had the choice between being homeless or rehoming my dog I would of course have to rehome my dog. You think that because of that Im not "good" enough to own a dog. Grow up.

Sometimes peoples life circumstances change and they have to make difficult decisions. It is the responsible and mature decision to make to rehome an animal rather than become homeless and all the risks associated with that.

There is also something called personal accountability and thinking for the future. If you are renting it is a bit silly to take on the responsibility for 5 dogs because your circumstances do not allow for it.

Ms Doubtfire1

intheclouds wrote: »

Oh for gods sake, there is no need to be so dramatic.

If I had the choice between being homeless or rehoming my dog I would of course have to rehome my dog. You think that because of that Im not "good" enough to own a dog. Grow up.

Sometimes peoples life circumstances change and they have to make difficult decisions. It is the responsible and mature decision to make to rehome an animal rather than become homeless and all the risks associated with that.

There is also something called personal accountability and thinking for the future. If you are renting it is a bit silly to take on the responsibility for 5 dogs because your circumstances do not allow for it.

Well, it is what it is.The dogs are there. A solution must be found and in my world that would NEVER include leaving a loyal friend behind. Maybe I'm not practical. But I am as loyal to my dog as he or she is to me. If my Ll would cancel my lease on me I would move.If that means I have to drive 2 hours each day to work i would do that.If that means I might have to find a job somewhere in an area where I can rent and keep my dogs I would do that. one thing I'd NEVER do is give up my dog. Or my cats.You are talking about rehoming an animal as if that is easy. You want to have a look at the number of dogs killed each year because they were not wanted or people couldn't care for them anymore.For whatever reason.

intheclouds

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

Well, it is what it is.The dogs are there. A solution must be found and in my world that would NEVER include leaving a loyal friend behind. Maybe I'm not practical. But I am as loyal to my dog as he or she is to me. If my Ll would cancel my lease on me I would move.If that means I have to drive 2 hours each day to work i would do that.If that means I might have to find a job somewhere in an area where I can rent and keep my dogs I would do that. one thing I'd NEVER do is give up my dog. Or my cats.You are talking about rehoming an animal as if that is easy. You want to have a look at the number of dogs killed each year because they were not wanted or people couldn't care for them anymore.For whatever reason.

Well I am delighted for you that your world makes such a thing possible.

Its not the same for everyone. People have different needs, different circumstances.

So the judgemental "youre not good enough to own a dog" doesnt really help anyone faced with a difficult decision.

Ms Doubtfire1

intheclouds wrote: »

Well I am delighted for you that your world makes such a thing possible.

Its not the same for everyone. People have different needs, different circumstances.

So the judgemental "youre not good enough to own a dog" doesnt really help anyone faced with a difficult decision.

Calling someone silly doesn't either.And i'd say the OP posting here is more part of my world than he/she will ever be of yours.:D

SAMTALK

Some people love dogs and treat them as family, while other people are notanimal lovers.

This does not give anyone the right to treat op the way some are just because she has 5 dogs.

It is her choice and she/he is only looking for advice not judgement.

We have dogs and whilst I wouldnt call them my children I would be heartbroken if I had to rehome them.

cocker5

I have to agree with poster's here I would never rehome my dog, a dog is for life and all that… your circumstances changes…
so what make changes, make the effort, make it work….. like you would with any family member, it may not be easy but it’s the reality of being a good dog owner.

The issue with Ireland is the first option for many dog owners (I use that term loosely) is to rehome… grow a pair – figure / find solutions… there are ALWAYS solutions, they may not be quick or easy but they are there and that a fact!

Shint0

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

Op, a similar thread was on accommodation a while back. if you are longer than 6 month in the premises, you are protected under part4. LL can't cancel the lease unless under very specific circumstances. if you are not more than 6 months, don't be discouraged will find somewhere.

It did say in the OP that they only moved in at the start of August and without a lease so the landlord is within his rights to serve notice without even having to give a reason.

I agree that they will probably need to extend their criteria and may have to commute further to find a property willing to accommodate them. People have to make sacrifices all the time for other reasons usually based on finances or wanting a bigger property within their budget but might be further away from work and not just in relation to pet ownership. If the OP is willing to make the required sacrifices for their dogs then hopefully they will find somewhere suitable.

Ms Doubtfire1

Shint0 wrote: »

It did say in the OP that they only moved in at the start of August and without a lease so the landlord is within his rights to serve notice without even having to give a reason.

you are right, saw that after I posted.

Mary63

I have property I rent and I wouldn't even consider someone with five dogs,I would think they were a bit odd and not very clean.

There is a smell in a houses with more than one dog,owners are probably immune to it but its very unpleasant.Why would anyone who is gone from the house all day want five dogs,what do the dogs do all day,are they outside in all weather or inside all day.

The landlord is totally correct to do what he wants with his own property,he probably nearly got sick with the smell in the house when he called and lucky for him he can ask the tenants to move.

Definitely don't keep quiet about the dogs,you have no right to do this when you are renting a property that belongs to someone else.If you buy your own property you can have as many dogs as you like.I know my management company has a no pets clause in the lease and I would want tenants evicted if they brought a dog into my property.

intheclouds

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

Calling someone silly doesn't either.And i'd say the OP posting here is more part of my world than he/she will ever be of yours.:D

I did not call anyone silly. I said it was a bit silly to take on the responsibility for 5 animals if you are renting and I stand by that.

I dont know what your last statement means unless its an attempt to insult me (but youd hardly be getting personal would you?).

Its good to be loyal to your pet - but you must be loyal to yourself in the first instance or else your per suffers anyway!

How do you think the 5 dogs would survive homelessness? Dont you think the dog warden would be straight on that?

Letree

Move to the countryside, nobody in towns or cities wants to live beside 5 dogs. You might think they don't bark much but your neighbours will think otherwise.

cocker5

Mary63 wrote: »

I have property I rent and I wouldn't even consider someone with five dogs,I would think they were a bit odd and not very clean.

There is a smell in a houses with more than one dog,owners are probably immune to it but its very unpleasant.Why would anyone who is gone from the house all day want five dogs,what do the dogs do all day,are they outside in all weather or inside all day.

The landlord is totally correct to do what he wants with his own property,he probably nearly got sick with the smell in the house when he called and lucky for him he can ask the tenants to move.

Definitely don't keep quiet about the dogs,you have no right to do this when you are renting a property that belongs to someone else.If you buy your own property you can have as many dogs as you like.I know my management company has a no pets clause in the lease and I would want tenants evicted if they brought a dog into my property.

So what you saying is houses with one dog have no smell but houses with more than one dog - smell??

Thats a ridiculous statement in fairness ... having dogs (1 or more) does not mean they smell or a home smells - it all comes down to the dog owners hygiene level nothing to do with the amount of dogs.

Mary63

The smell of one dog might be just about bearable but you double that and you have a problem.There is no way five dogs wouldn't smell,it would be overpowering.

I can smell dog as soon as I walk into a house,its nothing to do with hygiene really,dogs are dirty by nature and they like rolling in muck,they wont clean themselves the way a cat will.If you live with dogs you will smell of wet dogs,you won't notice it because you have got used to it but as soon as someone steps into your hall they will get it.

Anyway the landlord didn't like being rushed at by five dogs and I think he is being reasonable saying keep one and get rid of the other four if you want to stay in his property.If you don't then you need to start looking but no landlord in their right mind in an urban area is going to want five dogs.

PaddyWilliams

[QUOTE=beveragelady;100763634]Who do so many people think it's helpful to point out that the OP's situation is of his or her own making? At no point did the OP try to blame the state, the church, the EU or any other outside force for the fact that five dogs make househunting difficult.

I had one dog when I lived in Dublin and when it was time to move house I discovered that it was easier to leave my job and find another one in the country than it was to find a house that would accept my dog. Plenty of people thought I was mental, but I had a responsibility to him that didn't evaporate as soon as he became inconvenient.

Your best bet is probably to find a rural location and talk to people there. Plenty of farmers built nice new houses and moved into them during the Celtic tiger, so they often have more modest homes available to rent. Some (not all, I know, I know) farmers have an aversion to making their business known so they mightn't like to advertise that they have a property to rent. Ask in a local pub, put the word out that you're looking for a place. You might find yourself in a draughty bungalow but there's a decent chance the dogs wont be a problem. The fact is that a landlord who has made a serious investment in a property won't consider allowing dogs, and that's completely understandable. You're looking for someone who isn't particularly houseproud who's just glad of a bit of income from the rent.

Good luck![/QUOTE]


I think people are highlighting this due to the Post title 'Our dogs are making us homeless'.

It's not the dogs' fault at all and people are pointing that out.

cocker5

Mary63 wrote: »

The smell of one dog might be just about bearable but you double that and you have a problem.There is no way five dogs wouldn't smell,it would be overpowering.

I can smell dog as soon as I walk into a house,its nothing to do with hygiene really,dogs are dirty by nature and they like rolling in muck,they wont clean themselves the way a cat will.If you live with dogs you will smell of wet dogs,you won't notice it because you have got used to it but as soon as someone steps into your hall they will get it.

Anyway the landlord didn't like being rushed at by five dogs and I think he is being reasonable saying keep one and get rid of the other four if you want to stay in his property.If you don't then you need to start looking but no landlord in their right mind in an urban area is going to want five dogs.

It has everything to do with hygiene - lots of people have a dog (or dogs) including myself and my house is spotless with no smell. Our dog is an indoor dog, washed regularly, has his coat clipped tight, beds washed weekly... IF he ever rolls in something on one of our many mountain walks he is washed straight away when we get home and blow dried... no smell of wet dog... you must be referring to dogs who spend most of their time dumped in back gardens - its all about hygiene - its up to the owners to keep their dog smell free, clean and tidy... not the dog

Ms Doubtfire1

oh dear god what a poster.bless you ignore button.