How far down the toilet has boxing gone?

sxt

Both Amateur and Professional,elite level.

You have the Olympics . Nothing more needs to be said.

Than you have professional boxing where you can be a "world champ" for years without having a meaningful opponent ,cherry picking tailored opponents holding out for that "big fight" that should have happened 3 years ago!. The sport is in the hands of lawyers and sleasy business men

I salute the rise of MMA where allmost none of this takes place. The fights people want to see, happen. the best fight the best.

Floyd Mayweather and Amir Khan calling out McGregor for a fight shows how low Boxing has sunk as a sport

Hopefully there will be a shakedown in the murky world of Boxing And the sport will get back on track soon

ricero

I have give up on pro boxing after the last couple of years of the fans being cheated time and time again. Mma is the game for me now where the best fight the best and their cards are stacked with quality fights unlike boxing

Henno30

The sport is too fragmented for anything good to happen at the moment. Too many factions at war with each other for good fights to happen with any sort of consistency. The Haymon expedition has only made things worse. At this point it's obvious that he engineered the TR-GBP 'cold war' from the outset, in cahoots with Richard Shaefer. He has used a massive slush fund to deepen the problems in the sport (crap matchmaking, inflated purses for glorified tune-ups) rather than eradicate them.

I think the core business model of the sport is bust, and it is going to take an almighty crash for the rebuilding to begin. That might mean PBC declaring bankruptcy, HBO cancelling boxing for good, or who knows what else. However it goes, it needs to get a lot harder for promoters to avoid working with each other, and for top names to avoid fighting each other. We're going nowhere until that happens.

walshb

Pro boxing is on a different level to amateur boxing as regards competitiveness and structure. At least in amateur boxing they have set rules and regulations linked to organisations and countries. All under the one big umbrella. Is it perfect? No. It never has been. Like a lot of other sports. But it's so much more structured and competitive than the wheelings and dealings of the pro game.

mansize

Well when all the fighters are under the one umbrella promotor like UFC it's a very different dynamic.

If fragmentations and individual fighters having seperate promoters occour you'll see how very political it can become

walshb

I never liked the UFC is great comparison to boxing as regards the best meeting the best. One is a historically global icon of a sport, and the other is a fledgling sport struggling to be accepted as a sport. Let's wait a little bit before comparing them.

FTA69

Likewise the fighters of the UFC get a shocking, terrible deal. The lads are making almost a billion dollars for these people and get a tiny percentage in return. They need to unionise ASAP.

mansize

FTA69 wrote: »

Likewise the fighters of the UFC get a shocking, terrible deal. The lads are making almost a billion dollars for these people and get a tiny percentage in return. They need to unionise ASAP.

This is true, it makes me cringe when I hear people decry football players getting slated for their inflated wages, but do people not see all the money BSKYB, Murdoch the Chairmen etc are making from it???

The ones that provide the entertainment should be getting the lions share.

Diddley Squat

The current young generation are only mildly interested in boxing.
MMA is certainly the one at the moment. I don't hear any young people talk about boxing at all.

Im not a fan of MMA and i'm a massive boxing fan - have been all my life.
At the same time , Im telling it as I see it.

That McGregor fight brought in 1.6 million PPV's ? thats the figure I heard.

Once MMA provides a fair wage for the fighters and the sport gains history I think it leaves boxing for dust.

Its very sad - boxing has made little effort to compete with the rise of MMA.
The Mayweather Pac fight was the one where casual fans tuned in and paid over hard earned cash. That fight was absolute let down and did huge damage to the sport on the face of things.

I just listened to The Boxing Coalition podcast , I was surprised to see the whole show was dedicated to UFC this week - ??? wtf

I go to my online bookies to bet on the upcoming or live Friday boxing - now basically none are offering live odds on these boxing fights - at the same time the MMA lower rank fights are available live - basically having replaced boxing.

Thats a market reaction - theres a shift happening and it is happening very quickly.

Greedy promoters and poor match ups should take the blame for a large part of boxing's decline.

Larsso30

Mcgregor constantly wants his name linked with Floyd too...

And as for which is most popular, boxing holds ppv records and while its in a slump right now spare me the mma has taken over nonsense

Henno30

Larsso30 wrote: »

Mcgregor constantly wants his name linked with Floyd too...

And as for which is most popular, boxing holds ppv records and while its in a slump right now spare me the mma has taken over nonsense

What do PPV records count for? The UFC draws millions of viewers several times a month, and has divisions where fights between #1 and #2 are a regular occurrence, not some rare event that the fans must be bled to pay for.

The growth of MMA is staggering. That boxing fans can only point to the one-off circuses that are made into PPV events buy way of counter-argument is further evidence of how bad things are. The sport is an absolute shambles. I doubt it has ever been worse.

TheNap

I think people are getting mixed up between McGregor numbers and UFC numbers .

Without McGregor the UFC struggles with PPVs.

They had a WWE star fighting last weekend in order to get buys . It was a circus . It still didnt get over 500k buys.

Take McGregor away and boxing is in a lot healthier position than the UFC.

In Britain i dont think boxing has ever been as popular.

Yurt2

Larsso30 wrote: »

Mcgregor constantly wants his name linked with Floyd too...

And as for which is most popular, boxing holds ppv records and while its in a slump right now spare me the mma has taken over nonsense

3 of McGregor's PPV event buy rates would put him in the top 10 all-time boxing PPVs. Only Tyson and Mayweather are bigger draws in combat sports history. If he strings together another of victories he might just surpass them both, although Pac / Mayweather will be tough to top.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay-per-view

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/highest-grossing-boxing-ppv-fights-of-all-times/

CatFromHue

BT Sport have the UFC and show the fights live, it's not PPV over here either.

If you have BT Sport you get all the events on that.

Dick phelan

Bar McGregor the UFC hasn't a single fighter that most of the general public would no of, Also people forget America isn't the world, yes boxing has declined in America but if you want to know the true standing of a sport examine where the top fighters are coming from, In the UFC basically all the champions are either American or Brazilian and McGregor of course is Irish, Contrast it in boxing where you have elite fighters from all over the world, in the p4p top 10 you'v got, Gonzalez Nicaragua, Kovalev Russia, Ward and Crawford USA, Canelo Mexico, GGG, Kazakhstan, Rigondeaux Cuba, Pacquiao Filipino, Fury British ect,

Worldwide boxing isn't in decline in fact it's booming even amateur wise look at the quality of nations like Uzbekistan, Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan, Cuba, Ireland, UK, Azerbaijan ect far more competitive then it ever was 25 years ago. America has latched onto MMA because they'v stopped producing a lot of the elite fighters where's MMA is far less competitive, Americans don't like watching sports they don't dominate hence why the'v switched off boxing.


What has changed in boxing is the power has swung away from the States, of course mega fights will still happen in Vegas, NYC ect but there's no way 10 years ago a fighter of GGG's standing would have gone to the UK to fight, likewise some really big fights happening in Russia and China has emerged with some Pacquiao fights as well. If Americans would rather watch MMA that doesn't bother me but worldwide boxing is still miles ahead of MMA and that isn't changing anytime soon.

Dick phelan

Also it's worth pointing out the UFC is one organisation within MMA, does anyone outside of hardcore fans watch any other MMA shows? There's what maybe 50 UFC shows a year compared with boxing which has hundreds every year from all over the globe.

Dick phelan

Regarding money the UFC lads are getting totally screwed by Dana white, With those numbers McGregor should be getting 20-25 million quid if not more, apparently he only got 3m for the fight with Diaz which is a record basic purse for the UFC, forget Floyd even Amir Khan apparently got 10m for the Canelo fight, now i know McGregor probably got far more then 3m when you add on bonuses but even if he go double the basic purse that's still terrible when Khan as the B side got a lot more for a fight that did less buys.

walshb

Conor gets a PPV revenue percentage. Circa 1.6 million buys. Not sure the revenue from PPV; the live gate was 7+ million. Considerably lower than big boxing gates. I'd say Conor got 10+ million. Not at all screwed. It's still a fledgling sport.

Big Ears

The fact that most of this thread has been dedicated to a boxing vs MMA (UFC mainly) argument is nearly confirmation that it has gone downhill somewhat.

In reality we should be comparing boxing to boxing (in other eras).
The sport has severe problems at the moment, for a long time it's been difficult to get the best 2-3 guys in a division to fight each other for various reasons. Nowdays we struggle to get top 10 guys from to fight each other at all !

The GGG vs Brook and Chocolatito vs Cuadras fights at the weekend were fantastic and will help to elevate the sports position, but it really seems a sorry state if you look at the year as a whole.

Looking at the Ring p4p and what the top 10 fighter in it have done this year:
1. Roman Gonzalez-Beat McWilliams Arroyo & Carlos Cuadras, nothing too bad with that really, but he's the best in the world and no one bar the hardcore fans even know who he is !

2. Sergey Kovalev- Beat Jean Pascal (again) and Isaac Chilemba. There was no need for a 2nd Pascal fight, and while Chilemba is okay he was coming off a loss to get the fight. Thankfully is scheduled to face Ward (Finally !)

3. GGG- Beat Dominic Wade & Kell Brook. Wade is a no name, and Brook while a big name was coming up two weight classes. It turned out to be a good event, but could of been labelled a ridiculous show had Golovkin landed cleaner with that left in the first.

4. Andre Ward- Beat Sullivan Barrera & Alexander Brand. I'm bored just typing about it.

5. Terence Crawford- Beat Hank Lundy and Victor Postol. The first was a complete mismatch, the second not too bad a fight on paper tbf, but Crawford is just stupidly good.

6. Guillermo Rigondeaux- Beat Jazza Dickens. It was an underwhelming fight when made, and it was every bit as underwhelming in the ring.

7. Vasyl Lomachenko- Beat Roman Martinez. There'd be nothing wrong with that fight if Loma fought 4-5 times a year....he doesn't.

8. Canelo Alvarez- Beat Amir Khan in a ridiculous match up. Next fight is against Liam Smith because Canelo has finally decided he wants to stop pretending he's a Middleweight.

9. Shinsuke Yamanaka- Beat Liborio Solis. Nothing too much wrong with that, but no one knows this guy outside of Japan except the hardcore fans. Fighting Anselmo Moreno (again) next, competitive bout but not very appealing.

10. Carl Frampton- Beat Scott Quigg and Leo Santa Cruz, better quality wins than anyone else on the list above him. Infact those wins are the reason he's probably on the list.

So we're 9 months in to this year, and this is what the top guys have done. Some special mentions btw to Wladamir Klitschko, Tyson Fury and Miguel Cotto who haven't fought this year, and Manny Pacquiao (vs Bradley for the millionth time), Danny Garcia (vs Guerrero) and Adonis Stevenson (vs Thomas Williams jnr) who've fought once this year so far.

So considering the above, how are people supposed to get excited ?

Dick phelan

I mean boxing can be absolute bollox at times but this year we will have gotten Gonzalez vs Cudras, Ward vs Kovalev, Crawford vs Postol, Frampton vs Quigg and LSC x2, Crolla vs Linares, Usyk vs Glowacki, Klitschko vs Fury, Thurman vs Porter, Salido vs Vargas, Bellew vs Makabu. Boxing indeed suffers from an image problem and what doesn't help is the divisions where the best fights do seem to happen are ones people have little interest in, Cruiserweight is class atm as is Flyweight, SuperFlyweight ect, Compared to last year which was god awful this years been decent enough imo, Thurman v Porter, Frampton v LSC, Salido vs Vargas, Gonzalez vs Cudras all delivered big time.

Dick phelan

People go on about the UFC taking over but the reality is McGregor basically carries the sport from a casual perspective, the UFC has failed to build up new superstars in the sport hence why they had CM punk fighting at the weekend to get buys, Jon Jones is a mess, Anderson Silva gone, GSP gone, Rousey god knows, Bar McGregor what other major draw have the UFC got if McGregor left the UFC tomorrow they'd have nobody capable of getting half the 1.6m buys Mcgregor got.

Big Ears

Dick phelan wrote: »

I mean boxing can be absolute bollox at times but this year we will have gotten Gonzalez vs Cudras, Ward vs Kovalev, Crawford vs Postol, Frampton vs Quigg and LSC x2, Crolla vs Linares, Usyk vs Glowacki, Klitschko vs Fury, Thurman vs Porter, Salido vs Vargas, Bellew vs Makabu. Boxing indeed suffers from an image problem and what doesn't help is the divisions where the best fights do seem to happen are ones people have little interest in, Cruiserweight is class atm as is Flyweight, SuperFlyweight ect, Compared to last year which was god awful this years been decent enough imo, Thurman v Porter, Frampton v LSC, Salido vs Vargas, Gonzalez vs Cudras all delivered big time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLNvqRyafnk

Replace Banana bread with Bellew. Ironically the uploader is named Callum Smith, a fighter who's had a very disappointing and uninteresting year so far. For someone who is supposedly the heir apparent at Super-Middleweight (If you ask Eddie Hearn), it's been shocking.

Also that list just doesn't cut the mustard for me, and saying last year was worse doesn't help !
Crolla vs Linares isn't a bad fight, but it leaves such a sour taste in the mouth knowing Crolla and Flanagan will never fight while one is with Matchroom and the other with Warren. Who's the best Lightweight in Britain ?, it's hard to tell, so let's find out by having them fight everyone bar each other :rolleyes:

Frampton, Quigg & LSC all won't be put in with Rigondeaux. Ward & Kovalev was forever in the making and we still won't see either man in with Stevenson anytime soon. The only reason Gonzalez can fight type guys is the lighter weight guys make so little money, they can't afford to avoid him.

I was thinking in my head, am I just being stubborn, or was it really much better not that long ago. So I picked a random year, 2009 (So 7 years ago) for comparison. We had:
Manny Pacquiao vs Ricky Hatton
Manny Pacquiao vs Miguel Cotto
Juan Manuel Marquez vs Juan Diaz I
Shane Mosley vs Antonio Margarito
Floyd Mayweather vs Juan Manuel Marquez
Marcos Maidana vs Victor Ortiz
Bernard Dunne vs Ricardo Cordoba
Bernard Dunne vs Poonsawat Kratingdaenggym
Andre Berto vs Luis Collazo
Sergio Martinez vs Paul Williams I
Juan Manuel Lopez vs Rogers Mtagwa
Ande Ward vs Mikkel Kessler
Carl Froch vs Jermain Taylor
Carl Froch vs Andre Dirrell
Lucien Bute vs Librado Andrade II
Jermain Taylor vs Arthur Abraham
Michael Katsidis vs Jesus Chavez
Yonnhy Perez vs Joseph Agbeko I
Vic Darchinyan vs Jorge Arce
Tim Bradley vs Lamont Peterson
Tim Bradley vs Kendall Holt
Wladamir Klitscho vs Ruslan Chagaev
David Haye vs Nicolay Valuev
Jhonny Gonzalez vs Toshiaki Nishioka
Giovani Segura vs Cesar Canchilla II
Chris John vs Rocky Juarez II
Marco Huck vs Ola Afolabi I
and of course Martin Rogan vs Sam Sexton !

A great mix of big fights (and events) and entertaining fights that really delivered. Unfortunately it makes 2016 seems like ****, and I bet if you looked at any of the few years before 2009, or after (until about 2012) you also find they look much better than 2016.
Once promoters became exclusive to networks things really started to go downhill, and it's just kept going that way since

Richard Hillman

Boxing has a massive image problem. Its needs to distance away from the whole dingey gym and eastend gangster image. The likes of the Kinehans being involved says it all. This was acceptable back in the day but times have changed.

We're all a bit snobbier now a days and seeing somebody who is dog rough, and would probably be a career criminal if boxing didnt save him, doesn't really cut the mustard anymore.

Then you have shady characters all throughout the sport. From refs to judges, fighters, promoters, fans. All great for a Guy Ritchie film but again, it doesn't cut it in real life.

The issue with the multiple belts is another farcical problem. It also seems like the fighters stop caring about being a world champion soon as they win it once.