Car dealer using SIMI forms when not SIMI registered

Sam_The_Dog

Hi,

I am new to this. But the below is basically the problem that I currently have.

I recently bought a car from a dealer. After a few days I noticed a fault with the engine. In order to get to the point of having them look at it I had to badger them with phone calls, and was always told, "such and such will ring" you back or "I can't handle your request". But I always ended up doing the chasing, eventually I got to the point where we reached an agreement to bring it in and have it assessed.

The car has been back with them twice now for what would seem to be major repair, the first time it was there for over a week, I away for this week and picked it up when I returned. The second time was yesterday, for a fault which I believe to be caused by the attempt to rectify the first fault, because it wasn't there beforehand, and it appeared the day after I picked the car up. This time it is apparently being sent to an authorised main dealer to be inspected.

After being entirely unhappy with the service received from the dealer, I decided to lodge a complaint with SIMI, whom I rang and was informed by them in writing that this dealer is 100% not a SIMI dealer and should not be using their forms. But they cannot deal with my complaint, that it is a matter between me and the dealer.

Has anyone else been in this situation or known of an experience like this? What are the legal issues here?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Mc Love

SIMI would have done nothing anyway - they work for the dealers not the general public

bazz26

Maybe have a chat with the Citizen's Advice Bureau. Their legal advise is free and they may be able to advise if you have a chance of getting any recourse through the small claims court to have the garage resolve the car's issues.

Sam_The_Dog

Thanks, the issue with having them repair the car is that they have already tried and failed, and in the process of doing this they created a new problem. Which leads me to believe that they are completely incompetent.

Does using the simi forms when they are not a member not make all contracts related to the vehicle invalid? Surely there are legal issues here with regard to misrepresentation and false and misleading information.

biko

They are a real dealer yeah? With a business you went to?

As regards to the usage of SIMI forms. I suppose all you can do is inform SIMI in writing that dealer XYZ is using their forms and let them handle the rest - but then I'm not a lawyer..

Sam_The_Dog

biko wrote: »

They are a real dealer yeah? With a business you went to?

As regards to the usage of SIMI forms. I suppose all you can do is inform SIMI in writing that dealer XYZ is using their forms and let them handle the rest - but then I'm not a lawyer..

i have already informed Simi, who can only send a letter telling them to stop. The problem here is that they are part of a group with several premises. One part of the group is a member, the one i went to is not. They do not however have the address on the forms.

I am sure they will find some loophole.

Bigus

Are they refusing to repair the car now ?

Sam_The_Dog

They are sending it to a main dealer to have it inspected. I have informed them verbally and will do also in writing that I am unwilling to take the car back.

They have had the chance to repair and made a new problem, which actually sounds worse. They need a main dealer to investigate this problem . Which should be a good indicator of how competent their own mechanics are.

Ericdravancrow

It's a case of "goods not fit for purpose" demand your money back.

Bigus

Ericdravancrow wrote: »

It's a case of "goods not fit for purpose" demand your money back.

"Goods not fit for purpose" can be open to interpretation for second hand goods, could be dependent on the age of the vehicle.

I think , if the garage are prepared to fix the car, this doesn't apply (instant refund)even with a new car , depending on what's wrong with it I suppose.

There was somebody on here with a nearly new fiesta that the main dealer was finding hard to fix , but at least they got the loan of a car while it was being investigated.

OP. How old is the car and what's wrong with it ? Or what make is it ?

Sam_The_Dog

Car is 4 years old. Makes a rattling noise on startup, they attempted a fix by replacing the flywheel. Then it started to make a snapping/banging noise when started and changing gear, was also l leaking oil.

its basically because of this i have absolutely no faith in them to repair it correctly. And it seems that they have no confidence in their own technicians otherwise they wouldn't be sending it to a main dealer for repair.

in my mind, they had an opportunity to repair and messed it up, i was willing to accept the car back up until that point.
i just want my money back. Its just not worth the hassle.

Bigus

Fair enough you want your money back,but the law says they're entitled to repair it, as the new fiesta driver found out here on boards too, never mind a 4 year old car.


Any way good luck, either way.

Sam_The_Dog

The law states they are entitled to repair. As i mentioned above, they tried to but messed it up to such an extent that the car was worse after.

I doubt anyone would trust a place after that.

colm_mcm

You don't accept that a main dealer should have more specific knowledge on a brand they sell new, service every day, and receive bulletins direct from the manufacturer. You can hardly expect a used car garage to have main dealer level knowledge.
You are using the fact that they're getting a main dealer involved as a stuck to beat them with - which is a bit of a sh1tty attitude. Yes having an issue with a car isn't ideal, but you need to be reasonable too.

the paperwork thing is a little unusual, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. The SIMI is a lads club that prints order books and creates an impression of superiority in return for an annual fee. It is of little benefit to the consumer, the fact that the garage group is a member in one if its sister garages would be enough to tell me the books aren't stolen!

Hope it works out well for you, but take it handy in the meantime. The fact that they're actually doing something is promising.

Sam_The_Dog

I accept your point and so far I have been as reasonable as possible. The main dealer should have more knowledge that is obvious, but to accept a car back after having only had it a few weeks and having what I perceive to be major mechanical issues, regardless of who does the repairs, would be madness considering I will be paying it off for the next 3 to 4 years

colm_mcm

You've only had the car a few weeks, but the car is still 4 years old. If it were a new car it would clearly be a manufacturing fault and you could reasonably question your faith in the car/manufacturer. In this case, something has worn out, something was replaced which didn't fix the original fault but uncovered another one. It happens on used cars.

Not to belittle your opinion or what you're feeling or anything, but unless you are a mechanic or similar, your perception of what a major mechanical issue is may not match up with the reality of it. There may be a very simple solution to the issue.
As an example, you unplug one ignition coil on a car and it sounds like it's banjaxxed. Clearly not the solution here, but you get my point?

Bigus

How much cheaper was the car than a new version of the same ? , because that is relevant to how worn it can be if you only paid a fraction of the new cost, cost is even relevant to the claims court, notwithstanding that it has to be fit for purpose.

Fair enough motor dealers are no angels but A lot of people would never even consider buying a secondhand TV or washing machine, but with cars it's a different story because of the figures involved ,so we all have to consider secondhand , with all the issues that can bring.

however a secondhand car is not New, even if it's bloody expensive.

If you bought privately you'd be on your own with no hope of a fix or refund, so if they fix it or get a main dealer to fix it, what's the problem?

Keep us informed either way please.

Are you stuck without transport in the meantime ?

Sam_The_Dog

They gave me a car but only after i insisted i needed one to get to work. Having originally been told that they weren't able to do this.
As they are one of the largest dealers in the country, I felt I could trust them. But more fool me.

The simi thing may be down to registered address and company name, i accept that.

In the meantime i have done my own research by googling the original uk plate.
It is a former corporate lease/long term rental car. This was not disclosed.
I found it listed on several uk sites from prices ranging from 4000 - 9000.
I have 2 history check reports stating that the car has had 2 owners, advertised as one.

something here stinks, i accept i am partially at fault for not checking the details fully before agreeing to the purchase. But as i mentioned above i felt i could trust them as they are one of the largest dealers in the country.

Cerco

IMHO the vendor is trying hard to resolve your issue by sending it to a main dealer. They are / should be best placed to resolve the problem.
I think you should await the outcome of their diagnosis before jumping to any conclusions. Your perception of a major problem is just that , a perception, until you have more information.
While I understand your frustration I think I would wait. If the main dealer fails to resolve the issue then you would have a much stronger case.

The issue of using SIMI forms could be just be a case of using them for simplicity (instead of designing their own) However if they are representing themselves as SIMI members then that is a different story.

colm_mcm

most company cars are leased. no big deal.
to be honest none of what you found out should be of any concern. none of this would enitle you to a refund.

Sam_The_Dog

They were so far as I can tell deliberately misleading about their affiliation with SIMI and the history of the car.
Tried and failed to repair the car, clearly it has some sort of issue otherwise they wouldn't be forwarding it to someone else to try and fix.
Resisted most of my attempts to get them to reassess the vehicle and have it checked out by them as they clearly state under the warranty that I should do.

I admit I have been naive to a certain extant. But i am fully aware of my rights under consumer law, and one of them is to get a refund. Its my money they have, and i am entitled under law to ask for it back.

bazz26

Sam_The_Dog wrote: »

They were so far as I can tell deliberately misleading about their affiliation with SIMI and the history of the car.
Tried and failed to repair the car, clearly it has some sort of issue otherwise they wouldn't be forwarding it to someone else to try and fix.
Resisted most of my attempts to get them to reassess the vehicle and have it checked out by them as they clearly state under the warranty that I should do.

I admit I have been naive to a certain extant. But i am fully aware of my rights under consumer law, and one of them is to get a refund. Its my money they have, and i am entitled under law to ask for it back.

I think you're being a bit unfair here. They are sending it to a main dealer to fix it because they don't have the expertise to fix it.

What would you have them do instead? From the sound of it you seem to want a refund no matter happens now.

Sam_The_Dog

That is exactly the stance i am taking.

Its easy to say when its not your money to let them get it fixed and take it back and pay for it for the next few years.

bazz26

It's nothing to do with who's money it is. There are far worse slippery chancers out there who would have shut their door on your face. Good luck though, I hope it works out for you.

colm_mcm

Sam_The_Dog wrote: »

... But i am fully aware of my rights under consumer law, and one of them is to get a refund. Its my money they have, and i am entitled under law to ask for it back.

You need to brush up on consumer law.

Sam_The_Dog

Is it the part about misleading information or defective products? I've read through them, I'm not one to copy and paste paragraphs to try and myself look smart. But i know enough to know that i am well within my rights to look for a refund.

I also thank you for your input, but at the end of the day I came on here looking for advice not to be insulted or start an argument.

colm_mcm

Did I insult you? I am simply pointing out that you need to re-read what you think you saw about being entitled to a refund. It isn't an automatic right, and the seller has the option to repair.

Maybe you'd prefer everyone to tell yer absolutely right and the bad man sold you an awful car and of course you'll get your money back from the dodgy dealer.
You can cherry pick whatever bits of sale of goods act you like the look of, but you didn't buy a new product.

Sam_The_Dog

As i stated previously they have had the opportunity to repair and failed. Therefore they have two options left, refund or replacement. The law doesn't state how many attempts at repair they should get.

colm_mcm

That's exactly it, the law doesn't say they get only one opportunity to repair, especially if there are seperate issues like the one that cropped up after the first repair.

Even in a new car, you could have recurring issues and not get a refund.
Not telling you this to discourage you from trying whatever you think is right, just hoping you really know what your rights are and how these things pan out in reality.

Sam_The_Dog

Even though it was the result of the attempt to the repair the first issue that created the second. In my book that's enough.
Replaced a dual mass flywheel and other related components and a day or two later the car is audibly banging when changing gear and starting and also leaking oil. Then pass it on to someone else to try and repair their damage.
I'm supposed to be ok that i guess,

colm_mcm

It's not the best situation, but you can't confuse your wants with your rights, or a warranty being a guarantee that the car will never have a problem.

Ideally they'd have gotten the repair right first time, but stuff goes wrong, maybe the part was the wrong one, maybe the issue was misdiagnosed from the outset, maybe the part was faulty, maybe it was installed incorrectly, who knows. What matters is a main dealer is fixing it at great expense to the garage and no expense to you. You will have a car with new parts that will probably be in better condition than the other cars you'd be looking at if you got your refund.