Just failed test for 4th time..Genuinely cant take it anymore

spurious

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

If you can come up with a good way for me to stop confusing effect and affect I'll consider the debt repaid.

Affect is usually a verb (though it can be a noun) and effect is usually a noun, except when it is a verb(!).

(A verb and E noun) The weather affected him so badly, it had a terrible effect on his swing.
(E verb) The new trainer he employed effected some positive changes regarding his swing.


For most daily usage though, affect is to change something and effect is the change that happens.

Kings Inns or bust

J_R wrote: »

The test candidate is fully advised by the examiner on how he wants the test conducted.

The tester should say - "Now, you should drive in your normal manner.

Any driving instructor who advises their pupils to exaggerate in the test does not know how to teach their pupils how and when to do proper, correct obs checks.

Told him adjust his mirrors correctly, then taught the when where how and whys of observation. And of course not to exaggerate. He passed no problem.

I've highlighted some points by editing your post.

Firstly we all know that the test bears almost no resemblance to how people drive day to day. In fact some argue that some of the techniques taught on the test are at best suboptimal, for example, the feeding the steering wheel technique. While important in older cars for maintaining control it's been shown in modern cars steering to not allow people the ability to react in emergency situations.

Secondly of course the correct observation should be done but it needs to be seen to be done. That doesn't involve an over exaggerated 'bobbing and ducking' it's a slight move to that the tester can just about see it. While I realise that you're not familiar with how this is done as it's not something you've taught it's a balance.

While I realise you have a sample of more than one, and I of only one I failed first time on not looking when I can assure you I was. I would actually have failed anyway on lack of progress as I was quite nervous and I was rightly failed but it only underscores how sure I was being on observation, not so that I would pass the test but so that I wasn't going to kill us all!

As an aside learn to drive when you're young. You'll be nowhere near as nervous as leaving it until later.

caldew

Very foolish to exaggerate anything on the test. Either your instructor is treating you as an fool telling you to do so, or you're treating the tester as an fool who can't do their job properly.
BTW the feeding the steering wheel technique is not a requirement for the test.

J_R

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

I've highlighted some points by editing your post.

Firstly we all know that the test bears almost no resemblance to how people drive day to day.
.

Hi,

unfortunately a very common misconception, IMHO promulgated by poor instructors

D0NNELLY

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

unfortunately a very common misconception, IMHO promulgated by poor instructors

You still feed the steering wheel?

GrumpyMe

D0NNELLY wrote: »

You still feed the steering wheel?

You don't have to "feed the steering wheel" to pass your test!
You have to display have full control of the vehicle.
One efficient way is use the steering wheel is to feed it.

Kings Inns or bust

GrumpyMe wrote: »

You don't have to "feed the steering wheel" to pass your test!
You have to display have full control of the vehicle.
One efficient way is use the steering wheel is to feed it.

Ah! So it's kind of an exaggerated thing we only do on the test.

OP, people are being quite hard on you - happens to whiney posts I'm afraid - but don't let it, or the fails get to you. Get an instructor and do as they suggest, if they say you don't need to be seen to be looking and you pass, perfect, you're still passed. If they do suggest you need to be seen, follow their advice. Again get rid if you don't pass.

Make sure you have a pre-test, an hour in with the instructor before you sit the test. You'll find it settles you down a bit. Make sure you're using an actual instructor and not Uncle Bob, the majority of us wouldn't pass a test today, bad habits are very easily picked up and easily passed on.

Mary63

Do you mean do the pre test immediately before the actual test kings inn or bust.

I have another teen ready to do the test now and really want him to pass first time too.

Milly33

I was going to say so you have failed three times and done the same thing mmm. Sorry OP but sounds like you are being a little cocky just because you think you can drive, does not mean you can.. That little look over your shoulder or glance to your left might save yours or someones life one day so dont knock it.. I was shocked listening to radio presenters saying they dont check their mirrors anymore or do half the things they done in the test to pass it, thats the whole point..You dont just get into a car and plough forward and backwards you need to have a bit of respect for those driving, for yourself and the road..

Kings Inns or bust

Mary63 wrote: »

Do you mean do the pre test immediately before the actual test kings inn or bust.

I have another teen ready to do the test now and really want him to pass first time too.

I'd suggest that personally. I did that on my second go round and passed, not on the first. I failed on the first for being too nervous and 'not looking', but I'll not reignite that particular argument! :pac:

dennyk

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Ah! So it's kind of an exaggerated thing we only do on the test.

Nah, push-pull is just a alternative method of steering. If you don't typically drive using push-pull, then you shouldn't use it during your test, as it will make your steering inputs clunky because you're not comfortable with it. I used hand-over-hand during my test and the tester didn't care one bit. As long as you maintain proper control of the wheel and the car (e.g. don't cross and lock your arms, steer one-handed, palm the wheel, steer with both hands on the same side of the wheel, etc.), the actual method you use doesn't matter.

GrumpyMe

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Ah! So it's kind of an exaggerated thing we only do on the test.

No - I said it is one efficient way to to use the steering wheel. It is NOT obligatory for passing the test!
As has been explained before don't go doing exaggerated sh1t, you may fail a test!
Just demonstrate that you have control of the vehicle.

Kings Inns or bust

GrumpyMe wrote: »

No - I said it is one efficient way to to use the steering wheel. It is NOT obligatory for passing the test!
As has been explained before don't go doing exaggerated sh1t, you may fail a test!
Just demonstrate that you have control of the vehicle.

As also explained you need to be seen to be doing what you need to be doing. How many of us steer in the same way as the test? Perhaps 10%. Hence it's an exagerated movement the majority of instructors would teach.

If you're asserting the test is flawed, instructors are flawed and the standard of driving here is terrible, well I'm with you there comrade.

GrumpyMe

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

As also explained you need to be seen to be doing what you need to be doing.

Testers are not idiots! They can see when someone is in control - the don't need any excessive or exaggerated movements to show you are in control.

dennyk

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

As also explained you need to be seen to be doing what you need to be doing. How many of us steer in the same way as the test? Perhaps 10%. Hence it's an exagerated movement the majority of instructors would teach.

How do you normally steer, then? I mean, if a new driver usually cruises around with one hand at 6 o'clock and the other wrapped around their cellphone/breakfast roll/schlong or something, then it's probably better that they don't pass their test anyway. Once you've learned to steer properly (using whichever method you prefer), I don't know why you wouldn't continue steering that way all the time.

For my test, I just drove the same way I've been driving for the past couple decades, without exaggerating anything or doing anything I wouldn't ordinarily do (other than reversing around a corner, natch), and passed with just a couple grade 2s, both fair enough and neither relating to observation or steering (one for going a bit fast on the road out of the test center, one for being a bit closer than the tester liked to a parked car once). I'll grant you every tester may have a different standard they look for, and some are surely better at their job than others, but I think some folks may be overthinking it, or failing because they legitimately neglected to do the right things sometimes, not because they didn't make it obvious enough when they did do 'em.

Kings Inns or bust

GrumpyMe wrote: »

Testers are not idiots! They can see when someone is in control - the don't need any excessive or exaggerated movements to show you are in control.

Again, that's not been my experience. I concede they're not idiots however they need to see the candidate is able. Now folks can insist all they like but as I say I've done numerous tests for various things, I've always been advised to be seen doing things, many driving instructors seem to suggest the candidate do X,Y or Z in order to pass the test so I'm just not buying that there is no advantage to it.

As I've said above I didn't on my first test and was marked down for it, I changed instructor, followed his advice and didn't get a single mark down on observation the second time, same test centre, same route.

Kings Inns or bust

dennyk wrote: »

How do you normally steer, then? I mean, if a new driver usually cruises around with one hand at 6 o'clock and the other wrapped around their cellphone/breakfast roll/schlong or something, then it's probably better that they don't pass their test anyway. Once you've learned to steer properly (using whichever method you prefer), I don't know why you wouldn't continue steering that way all the time.

For my test, I just drove the same way I've been driving for the past couple decades, without exaggerating anything or doing anything I wouldn't ordinarily do (other than reversing around a corner, natch), and passed with just a couple grade 2s, both fair enough and neither relating to observation or steering (one for going a bit fast on the road out of the test center, one for being a bit closer than the tester liked to a parked car once). I'll grant you every tester may have a different standard they look for, and some are surely better at their job than others, but I think some folks may be overthinking it, or failing because they legitimately neglected to do the right things sometimes, not because they didn't make it obvious enough when they did do 'em.

Ah yes, that reminds me - another one most people ignore as soon as they pass the test, the distance for passing parked cars.

Robeman

GrumpyMe wrote: »

Testers are not idiots! They can see when someone is in control - the don't need any excessive or exaggerated movements to show you are in control.

Does anyone test the testers or is there a quality check. If testers \ drivers matched up randomly then they all should have pretty much the same pass \ fail percentage. But based on centre stats this does not seem to be the case which suggest that different testers applying different standards.

witchgirl26

Robeman wrote: »

Does anyone test the testers or is there a quality check. If testers \ drivers matched up randomly then they all should have pretty much the same pass \ fail percentage. But based on centre stats this does not seem to be the case which suggest that different testers applying different standards.

They do check them. One of my tests, I had an additional tester in the back who was checking how the tester ran the whole process. I know a couple of other people who had the same.

J_R

Robeman wrote: »

Does anyone test the testers or is there a quality check. If testers \ drivers matched up randomly then they all should have pretty much the same pass \ fail percentage. But based on centre stats this does not seem to be the case which suggest that different testers applying different standards.

Hi,

Examiners all receive the same training at the same establishments, And throughout their career they are regularly checked by a supervisor sitting in on tests. Therefore they should mark fairly uniformly. However being human after a few years they develop their own little quirks and foibles. Some mark quite strict on some aspects in the test, others less so. But this should be no problem as test candidate should assume all aspects will be strictly marked. then is is irrelevant what examiner they get.

Examiners also move to different test centers, Forget exactly, but I think it used to be every third week they travelled and tested in a different center. (Bit of a fiddle really, real reason was to clock up and claim massive travelling expenses :eek:). Therefore it should also not matter at what center you do the test. (If you are at test standard)


Driving instructors on the other hand

loughrey2887

If you don't understand the importance of looking left and right, not only for the test but every single time you get into the car then I hope they fail you again and again and never give you a licence because you're a danger on the road. You can't know a road is empty if you haven't taken the time to look left and right because you're not god, you don't automatically know everything. These are not only basic driving skills but matters of common sense and if you haven't common sense then you're a lost cause for a lot of things in life.

loughrey2887

If you don't understand the importance of looking left and right, not only for the test but every single time you get into the car then I hope they fail you again and again and never give you a licence because you're a danger on the road. You can't know a road is empty if you haven't taken the time to look left and right because you're not god, you don't automatically know everything. These are not only basic driving skills but matters of common sense and if you haven't common sense then you're a lost cause for a lot of things in life, not just driving.

Speedwell

It took me four times to pass the driving test here in Ireland even though I'd been a safe driver in the US for 30 years. Admittedly a lot of the reason I failed the first three times was that I had never driven using a manual transmission car before I got here. But I was only dinged for "driving like an American" the first two times. The third and fourth time, I asked the tester if he had noticed many American quirks, and the third tester said, "You need to watch you don't do that" and the fourth said, "Yes, but you did so safely so I didn't worry about it". I know one of those things was hand-over-hand movement of the steering wheel in turning, but there's a right way and a wrong way to do that.

The only way I managed to pass at all is that I took the good advice of the testers each time and worked on the specific areas they recommended. Approach to roundabouts was my big issue... roundabouts are not like traffic lights, and it took a while for me to get that through my thick head.

Ben Gadot

bluewolf wrote: »

People will do all sorts of mad things on the road. Had someone overtake me on the right before while I was sitting there with my right indicator on about to turn. If I hadn't done my last mirror check I could have been smushed. Or people will wobble changing lanes in front of you, someone could be on their phone on the footpath on that junction and cross over the road without looking at you, and you need to have been looking at them.
Other people around you whether in cars or bikes or whatever are going to be distracted or incompetent or just simply assuming you can see them and it's your responsibility to be looking around and aware of what's around you at all times.
No more "fake glances".

The above and other posts like it blue are why I'm not bothered about learning to drive.

Having to count on other fcukwits to be safe is something I can't deal with.

dennyk

Ben Gadot wrote: »

The above and other posts like it blue are why I'm not bothered about learning to drive.

Having to count on other fcukwits to be safe is something I can't deal with.

Well, unless you never leave the house, you still have to count on them not to run you over while you're biking/walking/waiting for the bus. And even if you do stay home, you also have to count on them not to drive through your living room, or your neighbors not to accidentally set the place on fire. Shouldn't let that stop ya from learning to drive; you just have to be vigilant yourself and watch for folks doing dumb things.

exaisle

TheStook wrote: »

In 3 of my tests Ive gotten a total of 7 grade 2s between them.
In my 3rd test I got 17 grade 2s. Where's the consistency? I drove the exact same in every test.

3 times Ive failed from getting the harshest grade 3 imaginable.Im not making excuses, they were all grade 3s by the book. But cmon. Not looking left at a junction in an EMPTY estate where I could see the road to the left on approach anyway. But no im expected to do a fake glance regardless.

Im just losing all hope. This was my last chance to pass before starting college and now Ive to commute every single day for god knows how long on a bus with the worst schedule in Ireland.

Ive spent so much money on passing this test, around €1500 Id estimate at this point. Between the test fee, pretests and using my instructors car.

From what you've said, it may be time to change instructor. If he/she isn't making sure you've corrected your previous errors prior to doing the test, then they're not doing their job.
What you do in the test is to slightly emphasise all looks in the mirrors and to the left and right...to show the examiner that you DO look all the time (ie that you have acquired those good habits).
You haven't really mentioned what specific faults you've been failed on. If any relate to your control of the vehicle, rather than how you behave during the test (eg looking in the mirror etc), then you need more practice time in a vehicle. All of the required actions in the test need to be learned so that they become second nature....and in the test, they need to be emphasised.
Passing your test is only the first step in becoming a decent driver and that just proves that you have attained the minimum standard at which you can be let loose on the road alone.....it takes many years behind the wheel to become a competent driver.
You just haven't attained that standard yet, but don't give up...practice makes perfect.

coolbeans

TheStook wrote: »

But cmon. Not looking left at a junction in an EMPTY estate where I could see the road to the left on approach anyway. But no im expected to do a fake glance .

With respect your attitude here is a bit stinky. The number of times I've come across situations like this on me bicycle where the "fake glance" as you put it would have resulted in the avoidance of a collision rather than me being hit followed by the inevitable "he came out of nowhere" arising directly as a result of not looking enough is something to behold. In each case the motorist was to blame. None of them could be bothered with that last crucial glance. Maybe you'll remember this story fourth time round?

The Young Wan

Has anyone else noticed that the OP hasn't responded to anything? Perhaps they've been convinced that their way of driving isn't entirely safe?

Dravokivich

The Young Wan wrote: »

Has anyone else noticed that the OP hasn't responded to anything? Perhaps they've been convinced that their way of driving isn't entirely safe?

I wouldn't be too confident to assume that. The OP came here looking for an echo chamber.

GrumpyMe

The Young Wan wrote: »

Has anyone else noticed that the OP hasn't responded to anything? Perhaps they've been convinced that their way of driving isn't entirely safe?

Probably took a "fake glance" and didn't notice any replies.