New JC English (disaster)

Jamfa · 21-09-2016 5:43pm

Stewie Griffin wrote: »

I'm curious: What happens to the Collection of Student Texts? (I'm ASTI)

After the students select two of their texts the teacher assesses them & bringa a sample to a SLAR. The Collection itself and the 2 texts selected stay in the school as they are classroom-based assessments.

Stewie Griffin · 21-09-2016 7:36pm

Again, people might be laughing at my lack of knowledge, but are ASTI teachers permitted to have an SLAR?

implausible · 21-09-2016 8:11pm

Stewie Griffin wrote:

Again, people might be laughing at my lack of knowledge, but are ASTI teachers permitted to have an SLAR?

No, the SLAR is part of the assessment, so the directive prohibits it. You can get the students to put together a collection of their best work and draft and redraft pieces, but you cannot assess it using the descriptors or hold a SLAR meeting.

Jamfa · 21-09-2016 8:17pm

Stewie Griffin wrote: »

Again, people might be laughing at my lack of knowledge, but are ASTI teachers permitted to have an SLAR?

The revised English specification & Framework for JC were voted on by ASTI members in Sept 2015 & rejected. I take it you didn't vote last year.

Stewie Griffin · 21-09-2016 8:18pm

Yeah, I thought that, but was starting to wonder if I had misread it.

Even the differing interpretations of directives etc that are evident on this thread alone merely highlights the complete mess that English teachers are in. It also seems that there is no obvious urgency to bring about a resolution to the situation either.

Hope I'm wrong, but things seem to be drifting along.

Stewie Griffin · 21-09-2016 8:20pm

@jamfa

I voted. Happy enough to take the advice from those who know more about the ins and outs of the situation than me.

r93kaey5p2izun · 21-09-2016 8:27pm

This is about the new Science rather than English but perhaps English teachers might know the answer from their own experiences:

Science teachers are supposed to get 8 hours planning time this year using paid substitution. Should this include those teachers who happen not to have 1st Years this year but will in subsequent years?

So far we have had absolutely no time to plan a new scheme of work or look at depth of treatment of the vague statements of learning or look at resources required for the whole new section on Earth and Space. This really requires input from all members of the department and not just those with 1st Years right now.

Jamfa · 21-09-2016 8:28pm

Stewie Griffin wrote: »

@jamfa

I voted. Happy enough to take the advice from those who know more about the ins and outs of the situation than me.

Good stuff. My advice is to read all the documents from the NCCA which are on www.curriculumonline.ie. Neither the ASTI or DES seem to have much interest in the plight of English teachers and this December is looming fast.

Jamfa · 21-09-2016 8:32pm

Eli Happy Swamp wrote: »

This is about the new Science rather than English but perhaps English teachers might know the answer from their own experiences:

Science teachers are supposed to get 8 hours planning time this year using paid substitution. Should this include those teachers who happen not to have 1st Years this year but will in subsequent years?

So far we have had absolutely no time to plan a new scheme of work or look at depth of treatment of the vague statements of learning or look at resources required for the whole new section on Earth and Space. This really requires input from all members of the department and not just those with 1st Years right now.

The professional time is available for all registered science teachers & can involve planning for next year etc. Did you go to inservice last year?

Stewie Griffin · 21-09-2016 8:34pm

Yes, I agree completely. I'm only starting to really get familiar with the course in the last few weeks. There is a serious amount to absorb.

r93kaey5p2izun · 21-09-2016 8:44pm

Jamfa wrote: »

The professional time is available for all registered science teachers & can involve planning for next year etc. Did you go to inservice last year?

Yes I did. It was completely useless. There was also no information on these hours at that time. And no advice on depth of treatment other than thatdwe should "unpack" the statements as a department and do whatever we thought was suitable.

Thanks for the information. Is it written anywhere as principal thinks only current 1st Year teachers need the time?

evolving_doors · 21-09-2016 8:56pm

Jamfa wrote: »

Good stuff. My advice is to read all the documents from the NCCA which are on www.curriculumonline.ie. Neither the ASTI or DES seem to have much interest in the plight of English teachers and this December is looming fast.

You can also see that English teachers had no interest in their own subject either.

Here's the number of respondents to the initial JC consulatation process in 2008Here. How many English teachers are there in the country?

untitled.jpg

Jamfa · 21-09-2016 9:00pm

Gebgbegb wrote: »

You can also see that English teachers had no interest in their own subject either.

Here's the number of respondents to the initial JC consulatation process in 2008Here. How many English teachers are there in the country?

untitled.jpg

Only 5300

Jamfa · 21-09-2016 9:01pm

Eli Happy Swamp wrote: »

Yes I did. It was completely useless. There was also no information on these hours at that time. And no advice on depth of treatment other than thatdwe should "unpack" the statements as a department and do whatever we thought was suitable.

Thanks for the information. Is it written anywhere as principal thinks only current 1st Year teachers need the time?

Details are in Circular 24/2016: https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/cl0024_2016.pdf
Check with your ETB about claiming the hours.

evolving_doors · 21-09-2016 9:03pm

Jamfa wrote: »

Only 5300

No!.... 53

Jamfa · 21-09-2016 9:08pm

Gebgbegb wrote: »

No!.... 53

There are 5300 registered English teachers.

evolving_doors · 21-09-2016 9:37pm

Jamfa wrote: »

There are 5300 registered English teachers.

Ok, so that's the new syllabus based on the input of 1% of English teachers. Would you say that's a high level of interest?

man_no_plan · 21-09-2016 9:42pm

Completely off topic.

Can ASTI members apply for and be appointed to secondment positions or associate trainer positions with JCT?

If they did would they be excommunicated?

Jamfa · 21-09-2016 9:45pm

man_no_plan wrote: »

Completely off topic.

Can ASTI members apply for and be appointed to secondment positions or associate trainer positions with JCT?

If they did would they be excommunicated?

Yes. A colleague of mine is a whole school associate & also member of ASTI. Most people on secondment maintain their union nembership but pay a reduced rate.
The irony is that a lot of CPD to TUI members on the junior cycle is being provided by ASTI members.

Icsics · 21-09-2016 10:01pm

man_no_plan wrote: »

Completely off topic.

Can ASTI members apply for and be appointed to secondment positions or associate trainer positions with JCT?

If they did would they be excommunicated?

I'd say at this stage it's nearly impossible to be excommunicated...!

History Queen · 21-09-2016 10:06pm

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ok, so that's the new syllabus based on the input of 1% of English teachers. Would you say that's a high level of interest?

I know it doesn't explain the huge proportion of techers that didn't respond but the reason I and three colleagues didn't respond is because we were still in college...we were not teachers at the time

Jamfa · 21-09-2016 10:12pm

Icsics wrote: »

I'd say at this stage it's nearly impossible to be excommunicated...!

I think you can only be excommunicated from the Catholic Church.

doc_17 · 22-09-2016 10:16am

There are 14 hours of professional time available for teachers of English. Is that per year? Or if you have 1st only do you get less?

Jamfa · 22-09-2016 3:12pm

doc_17 wrote: »

There are 14 hours of professional time available for teachers of English. Is that per year? Or if you have 1st only do you get less?

The 14 hours is for all English teachers in your school regardless of which years you have. Next year it's 22 hours for all junior cycle teachers. All this was part of the ballot by both unions in sept 2015.

evolving_doors · 22-09-2016 5:54pm

History Queen wrote: »

I know it doesn't explain the huge proportion of techers that didn't respond but the reason I and three colleagues didn't respond is because we were still in college...we were not teachers at the time

Ah ya, that's fair enough, but I find most of the English teachers I know in the ASTI are starting to get in a flap asking questions now as if it is something new!

53 out of 5300 is pretty bad though. Although I don't think for a minute that the ' survey ' wasnt a sham and foregone conclusion. Weve discussed how these surveys are loaded before.

judeboy101 · 22-09-2016 6:03pm

Eli Happy Swamp wrote: »

This is about the new Science rather than English but perhaps English teachers might know the answer from their own experiences:

Science teachers are supposed to get 8 hours planning time this year using paid substitution. Should this include those teachers who happen not to have 1st Years this year but will in subsequent years?

So far we have had absolutely no time to plan a new scheme of work or look at depth of treatment of the vague statements of learning or look at resources required for the whole new section on Earth and Space. This really requires input from all members of the department and not just those with 1st Years right now.

I'd be more worried that students can go through primary and secondary school, not knowing they have a kidney or that plants produce flowers and seeds!!

Jamfa · 22-09-2016 7:28pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

I'd be more worried that students can go through primary and secondary school, not knowing they have a kidney or that plants produce flowers and seeds!!

Does that mean that anyone who didn't study science doesn't know they have kidneys?

judeboy101 · 22-09-2016 8:13pm

Jamfa wrote: »

Does that mean that anyone who didn't study science doesn't know they have kidneys?

Theoretically yes, but in reality they will probably hear their friends talking about it and form some dysfunctional attitude towards the proper use of the loop of henle

r93kaey5p2izun · 23-09-2016 12:55am

judeboy101 wrote: »

I'd be more worried that students can go through primary and secondary school, not knowing they have a kidney or that plants produce flowers and seeds!!

Oh believe me, I'm very unhappy with the specification. I think it is a disgrace and have made this clear in submissions when it was up for consultation and since it was finalised. But sure all you get is glib responses like that above. This nonsense push for skills without content knowledge will end in tears. Not to mention the pathetic retrograde steps in assessment.

political analyst · 29-09-2016 12:54pm

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0929/820143-education/

Fianna Fáil TD Thomas Byrne asked Minister Bruton if he could guarantee that students in ASTI schools would not lose marks.

Mr Bruton said he could not make that guarantee.

In a statement issued this morning, Mr Byrne said that children in ASTI schools are facing punishment in their State examinations due to matters outside their control.

"The Government should not be using students' grades as a bargaining chip with unions. We cannot allow a situation to develop where children are penalised as a result of this industrial dispute.

"The minister needs to change his attitude on this immediately," Mr Byrne added.

I thought that the ASTI's demands on the JCSA had been met before the most recent ballot on that issue. So why did the ASTI still reject it?

New JC English (disaster)

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