Becoming a personal trainer?

Marty McFly

Hi so I'm going to be loosing my job but will be getting a lump payment and my first thought has been change of career to something I will enjoy.

My first thoughts have been physical therapy or personal trainer.

For personal trainer I know elite fitness is highly recommended. I'm wondering which coarse or coarses would be best to do?

What level do you need to be at before beginning a coarse with elite fitness? What are the job prospects like? I'm in my early 30's and have a partner and two kids so job potential and earnings do need to be a big consideration.

Alf Veedersane

You might have seen this from a post last week but if you didn't, there's some great tips...

http://www.dominicmunnelly.ie/2014/10/5-reasons-why-you-shouldnt-become-a-trainer/

Marty McFly

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You might have seen this from a post last week but if you didn't, there's some great tips...

http://www.dominicmunnelly.ie/2014/10/5-reasons-why-you-shouldnt-become-a-trainer/

Cheers for that definitely worth a read.

The internship bit sounds like a great idea something I might try sound out were I train.

Transform

Marty McFly wrote: »

Hi so I'm going to be loosing my job but will be getting a lump payment and my first thought has been change of career to something I will enjoy.

My first thoughts have been physical therapy or personal trainer.

For personal trainer I know elite fitness is highly recommended. I'm wondering which coarse or coarses would be best to do?

What level do you need to be at before beginning a coarse with elite fitness? What are the job prospects like? I'm in my early 30's and have a partner and two kids so job potential and earnings do need to be a big consideration.

dont do it would be my answer.

If you were 21 with no commitments i would say yes but not in your situation

feck all trainers make more than €50,000 a year

BrokenArrows

Transform wrote: »

dont do it would be my answer.

If you were 21 with no commitments i would say yes but not in your situation

feck all trainers make more than €50,000 a year

Depends on what he was making before. 30-50k might be a big step up.
But ya, i wouldnt expect a PT to be earning much more than 30 on average.

Lets assume a self employed PT works 260 days in a year (average office worker) and charges €30 per hour. They would need to have 3.8 hours of paid training every single day to make 30k.

Also as a PT can be flexible to work bank holidays and weekends they can boost their income that way.

Although if he was very motivated and managed his business well he could manage to fill his days with paying clients. There is also the option of setting up an online business to supply customized training plans without having to actually train the people.

Hanley

You'll never make good money as a personal trainer.

The only way to make good money as a personal trainer is to view yourself as a business owner, and accept all of the problems and responsibilities that come along with that.

You might be lucky and find a gym that employs coaches and pays a good salary BUT there's such a deep pool of talent available that only the really exceptional people will get jobs like that.

Transform

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Depends on what he was making before. 30-50k might be a big step up.
But ya, i wouldnt expect a PT to be earning much more than 30 on average.

Lets assume a self employed PT works 260 days in a year (average office worker) and charges €30 per hour. They would need to have 3.8 hours of paid training every single day to make 30k.

Also as a PT can be flexible to work bank holidays and weekends they can boost their income that way.

Although if he was very motivated and managed his business well he could manage to fill his days with paying clients. There is also the option of setting up an online business to supply customized training plans without having to actually train the people.

online generally requires a presence or having been a trainer with experience previously

the industry is over run with part time trainers that need to get out of the industry rather than spending 10yrs of their life faffing about doing poor to average work

Transform

Hanley wrote: »

You'll never make good money as a personal trainer.

The only way to make good money as a personal trainer is to view yourself as a business owner, and accept all of the problems and responsibilities that come along with that.

You might be lucky and find a gym that employs coaches and pays a good salary BUT there's such a deep pool of talent available that only the really exceptional people will get jobs like that.

^^^ this so much.

its not feckin Las Vegas its Mosney

Hanley

Transform wrote: »

online generally requires a presence or having been a trainer with experience previously

the industry is over run with part time trainers that need to get out of the industry rather than spending 10yrs of their life faffing about doing poor to average work

I'd go one further and say "online training" isn't actually personal training at all.

It's actually a full time marketing job, and unless you get really lucky and are fat now / were previously and have a good story to back up your transformation, you're already dead in the water.

Transform

Hanley wrote: »

I'd go one further and say "online training" isn't actually personal training at all.

It's actually a full time marketing job, and unless you get really lucky and are fat now / were previously and have a good story to back up your transformation, you're already dead in the water.

fitness industry - pity or glamour is the new currency not skill or ideas

jive

Transform wrote: »

fitness industry - pity or glamour is the new currency not skill or ideas

As someone who doesn't work in the industry it is hilarious. As people who do work in the industry it must be really annoying though.

Transform

jive wrote: »

As someone who doesn't work in the industry it is hilarious. As people who do work in the industry it must be really annoying though.

ah its not really as the ones continually sell the pity story or are 'aspiring' (insert goal here) ______
really dont actually work with many clients and havent a long term sellable business

Plus most people have their bu11shlt sensors so switched on now that they can spot the fakers and dysfunctional a mile off and if they cant then thats their own fault.

Hanley

Transform wrote: »

ah its not really as the ones continually sell the pity story or are 'aspiring' (insert goal here) ______
really dont actually work with many clients and havent a long term sellable business

Plus most people have their bu11shlt sensors so switched on now that they can spot the fakers and dysfunctional a mile off and if they cant then thats their own fault.

"first time bikini competitor"

No, asshole. You're some skinny chick on a diet who may or may not step on stage in the next 2-5 years, asshole.

COH

'PT in training' is my new favourite term... especially the ones who also claim to be elite strength & performance coaches :pac:

Mellor

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Lets assume a self employed PT works 260 days in a year (average office worker) and charges 30 per hour. They would need to have 3.8 hours of paid training every single day to make 30k.

I think you way off with 3.8 hours tbh.
Sure, 3.8x30x260=almost 30k

But you are forgetting tax. To clear 30k, you have to turn over maybe 40k. Which is 5 hours per day.
And offices workers don't do 260 days, (5days x 52weeks), it's about 230days average. So that's 5.8hours, per day. Plus you'll probably be paying a gym rent. So your looks at 6+ hours of billable time per day. Which is not going to happen I'd imagine.

If you want to be taking home 30k, you need be able to charge more than 30/hr

Transform

Mellor wrote: »

I think you way off with 3.8 hours tbh.
Sure, 3.8x30x260=almost 30k

But you are forgetting tax. To clear 30k, you have to turn over maybe 40k. Which is 5 hours per day.
And offices workers don't do 260 days, (5days x 52weeks), it's about 230days average. So that's 5.8hours, per day. Plus you'll probably be paying a gym rent. So your looks at 6+ hours of billable time per day. Which is not going to happen I'd imagine.

If you want to be taking home 30k, you need be able to charge more than 30/hr

and this is one of the main reasons 90% of trainers havent a pot to piss in and need to just get out of the industry and stop wishing for free clothing and supplements

how the youth expect to compete with seasoned professionals without interning is just amazing

eire1

Might be a stupid question but do you get paid at all to intern or does it depend on the trainer/gym?

BabyE

Good luck if your not some pretty boy or some Mountain type monster. The fitness industry is a ****ing sham tbh. Hit the gym but stay the **** out unless you match either of the aformentioned criteria.

FAILSAFE 00

The real money is in group classes, boot camp, etc. It maximises your income per hour instead of 1-1 training.

I'd recommend NTC in Dublin for a recognised personal training certification. I know countless people who qualified there since 2001.

Get certified, insured and get qualified in some group class activity that attracts customers.

Avoid going into Fitness Instruction. There is very little money in it and you end up becoming a gym cleaner.

micks

Mellor wrote: »

I think you way off with 3.8 hours tbh.
Sure, 3.8x30x260=almost 30k

But you are forgetting tax. To clear 30k, you have to turn over maybe 40k. Which is 5 hours per day.
And offices workers don't do 260 days, (5days x 52weeks), it's about 230days average. So that's 5.8hours, per day. Plus you'll probably be paying a gym rent. So your looks at 6+ hours of billable time per day. Which is not going to happen I'd imagine.

If you want to be taking home 30k, you need be able to charge more than 30/hr

Some the same lads running it down were validating the guts of €60 p/hr in this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057638963

which is it?

True he's not factoring in tax but you are not factoring in expenses
As a PT/fitness instructor - self employed can write off - clothes.food,supplements etc required for the job


I do agree with the consensus though - as statistically something like 90-95% of start up businesses fail

Dtp1979

BabyE wrote: »

Good luck if your not some pretty boy or some Mountain type monster. The fitness industry is a ****ing sham tbh. Hit the gym but stay the **** out unless you match either of the aformentioned criteria.

What the fcuk are you talking about?

eeguy

The fitness industry is overrun by people who love to work out, did a few PT courses and are marketing themselves as trainers.

It's a bad idea for these reasons.
1 you have to get a decent client base to make any money.
2 your client base fluctuates throughout the year. You'll make money in Jan and before the Summer hols, but very little apart from that.
3 Your schedule has to suit your clients, so youre up for 6am classes, lunchtime classes, after work classes and 8 and 9pm classes.
4 Fitness at the moment is a fad which will eventually fall out of favour.
5 You'll need to maintain a constant social media presence across ALL platforms to keep your brand alive and compete with everyone else.
6 You'll need to be constantly inventing new ways to hook clients.
7 You'll never get paid if you're sick or injured or just want a holiday. Injury is a big one, since you'll need to be in top shape to keep your clientele. No one wants a fat PT.

There's many more, but I'd say it's not worth it. You're actually better off doing a craft or trade for the time you'll put into PT work.

CM24

BabyE wrote: »

Good luck if your not some pretty boy or some Mountain type monster. The fitness industry is a ****ing sham tbh. Hit the gym but stay the **** out unless you match either of the aformentioned criteria.

That's rubbish. There's definitely a large market of people that would be put off by the pretty boy or Mountain type of trainer. Look at Pat Divilly's clientele. They seem to be mostly middle aged people that just want to lose the belly and get reasonably fit.

I remember there was a thread here a while back about how Roy Keane's physique was voted as the ideal amongst Irish men.

Mellor

micks wrote: »

Some the same lads running it down were validating the guts of €60 p/hr in this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057638963

which is it?

Either you didn't understand my post, or I'm not understanding yours.

Which is what?
My post above was showing how you'll have to be very busy to earn €30k on €30/hr. The post you linked suggesting that c. €52-54/hr was reasonable (for 1/2 hour sessions). I don't see the confusion. 30 is a lot less than 52.

True he's not factoring in tax but you are not factoring in expenses
As a PT/fitness instructor - self employed can write off - clothes.food,supplements etc required for the job

I'm aware I that expenses can be written off on against tax. But I didn't include the expenses. So I'm not sure how that's a counter point, if anything it back my point up further.
Expenses can be written off, but they still have to be paid for by the business. If he job has 5k of expenses per year (could well be more), then he needs to earn 5k on top (which is tax free). So now he needs €45k per year to take home €30k. Which is 6.5hrs per day at €30/hr.

As I said previously;

If you want to be taking home 30k, you need be able to charge more than 30/hr

The previous poster was looking at hourly rate as takehome, based on 52 weeks. That's naive and it's probably what a lot of people actually think at the start.
They figure that they'll do 4 hours a day @€;30, 5 days a week (€600), which is $30k over 50 weeks, leaving them time of at Xmas and a week in Ibiza in the summer.

Nervous Wreck

eeguy wrote: »

The fitness industry is overrun by people who love to work out, did a few PT courses and are marketing themselves as trainers.

It's a bad idea for these reasons.
1 you have to get a decent client base to make any money.
2 your client base fluctuates throughout the year. You'll make money in Jan and before the Summer hols, but very little apart from that.
3 Your schedule has to suit your clients, so youre up for 6am classes, lunchtime classes, after work classes and 8 and 9pm classes.
4 Fitness at the moment is a fad which will eventually fall out of favour.
5 You'll need to maintain a constant social media presence across ALL platforms to keep your brand alive and compete with everyone else.
6 You'll need to be constantly inventing new ways to hook clients.
7 You'll never get paid if you're sick or injured or just want a holiday. Injury is a big one, since you'll need to be in top shape to keep your clientele. No one wants a fat PT.

There's many more, but I'd say it's not worth it. You're actually better off doing a craft or trade for the time you'll put into PT work.

Breaking News: Being self-employed is challenging.

BrokenArrows

Mellor wrote: »

I think you way off with 3.8 hours tbh.
Sure, 3.8x30x260=almost 30k

But you are forgetting tax. To clear 30k, you have to turn over maybe 40k. Which is 5 hours per day.
And offices workers don't do 260 days, (5days x 52weeks), it's about 230days average. So that's 5.8hours, per day. Plus you'll probably be paying a gym rent. So your looks at 6+ hours of billable time per day. Which is not going to happen I'd imagine.

If you want to be taking home 30k, you need be able to charge more than 30/hr

I was talking about the before tax salary. (Who gives their salary as the after tax amount when asked?)

Office workers do "work" 260 days but one of the benefits of an office job is paid holidays and bank holidays off. No such benefit being self employed.

Transform

eire1 wrote: »

Might be a stupid question but do you get paid at all to intern or does it depend on the trainer/gym?

I aint paying ANYONE to intern until they can train my 65yr old mother

eeguy

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Breaking News: Being self-employed is challenging.

Some industries are more challenging than others..;)

Transform

eeguy wrote: »

The fitness industry is overrun by people who love to work out, did a few PT courses and are marketing themselves as trainers.

It's a bad idea for these reasons.
1 you have to get a decent client base to make any money.

Boo hoo - thats a factor in EVERY industry

2 your client base fluctuates throughout the year. You'll make money in Jan and before the Summer hols, but very little apart from that.

Mine doesn't vary much the entire year and i have averages going back 10 years to mine from. Yes you get the odd week here and there where it can be 50% lower so i get 50% busier doing work thats going to make me pull in more clients the next week, i welcome the 'break'

3 Your schedule has to suit your clients, so youre up for 6am classes, lunchtime classes, after work classes and 8 and 9pm classes.

Yup, I dont work tuesday evenings, friday evenings or past 12pm saturdays, clients suddenly 'find' the time when you dont give them 20 options to pick from. Hours are long yes.

4 Fitness at the moment is a fad which will eventually fall out of favour.

WTF - are you out of your mind! The economy is growing again in dublin and an aging population that cares about their health are all getting in to fitness and they can affort it

5 You'll need to maintain a constant social media presence across ALL platforms to keep your brand alive and compete with everyone else.

Yes and no as i see some people focusing on 1-2 max and doing an excellent job. Its the content thats key NOT puking all over social media with zero opinion on anything and telling people to go for your dreams

6 You'll need to be constantly inventing new ways to hook clients.

Thats my favorite part of my job but i wouldn't call it "hooks", id call it cool and relevant material that engenders trust and belief in what i have to sell

7 You'll never get paid if you're sick or injured or just want a holiday. Injury is a big one, since you'll need to be in top shape to keep your clientele. No one wants a fat PT.

Are you kidding, we injured all the time, its just degrees of pain. I manage ok as im 40 now and look fairly alright. We all want a holiday, just earn more to deserve taking one.

There's many more, but I'd say it's not worth it. You're actually better off doing a craft or trade for the time you'll put into PT work.

I totally agree with the last point also - dont do it, being a PT is NOT suitable for 90% of the people that try because A) they are doing it for the wrong reasons (all about themselves, not about helping others) they treat it like a hobby and have zero and i mean zero systems in place to work with clients so everything looks like an exercise of the week and bootcamp session.

brownej

I was chatting to my brothers girlfriend at the weekend and she had just finished her PT course.
She is a full time teacher but is looking to do PT in the evenings weekends and during the holidays to make extra cash.
She was saying some of her firends had already done this and were making some nice extra cash.

OP as a new entrant to the PT market, this is what you are competing against!!!!
It takes ages to become established like transform or Hanley but you need to get clients and you will be competing with the parttime trainers.

Transform

This is relevant

From Phil Learney

Personal training on the surface is a glamorous profession.

Getting paid an impressive hourly rate.

Training professional athletes.

Training celebrities.

Travel the world with the aforementioned people.

Reality is.....

If you're good at what you do your session rate will be divided over multiples of hours prepping sessions, plans and supporting your clients. For most of you, because of this fact you'll actually take home something along the lines of minimum wage.

Income divided by hours working.

You'll work unsociable hours, your day will be split most likely into 2, possibly 3 blocks starting very early and finishing generally very late.

As its an 'image' based industry a lot of what you earn will be spent on your 'image'.

Training celebrities....

If you're lucky enough to train celebrities it'll generally be for free unless you've got the 'clout' should we say to command a fee.

I've turned down 3 'A' listers and multiple minor celebs for the fact they thought they were doing me the favour and wanted my time for nothing.

Alongside this fact, in most cases they can't mention you and when they do most interviewers will cut your name from the text as 'you' bring no value to the piece.

They don't do you a favour and if your entire reputation is based around you training 'someone' at 'some point' you're looking at a very short career.

Training athletes.....

If you want to train athletes you'll largely need to be in the clubs they reside at and generally work your way through the ranks in that club. Alternatively you will need to be a part of the federations their sport is built around. VERY few professional athletes earn enough to actually pay for personal training. That may surprise you but you're probably thinking immediately of the few hundred premier league footballers that earn more than enough.

I've been lucky enough to have trained some amazing athletes and very talented actors and actresses over my years as a coach. They probably however account for less than 5% of the people I actually train.

I train people, people who want to manage their physiques and diets better. They want to be able to have a social life, to have a drink with friends. Enjoy good food and stay fit and healthy. Each one of them wants to, and by default ends up looking and feeling better than they did to start with. The 'looking' part generally based on societies present ideal. One that will, as always change yearly to something new.

I could sell the 'glamour' of personal training but I'd prefer to sell the reality.

It's a tough industry with a very easy entry point. Most people that start in the industry will leave the industry (that's fact not speculation). It's long hours, it's hard.

It is however hugely gratifying and rewarding. It's an industry that takes a long time to establish yourself in but it's achievable and far easier than ever before.

That success doesn't rely on you having a six pack.

It relies on you having drive, compassion, a willingness and openness to learn. The balls to admit when you're wrong and a work ethic no different to any other industry or profession in which you want to make it.

All the tools and resources are on a plate for you. You just have to learn to use them correctly.

Just to chime in, there's no way I'd recommend PT as a career choice - especially with a young family.

I've been a PT for approximately 15 years, and have always been able to build up a decent client base wherever I've been. It's an enjoyable 'job', but that's all it is - a job. The only way you will make money is to go into group fitness (which is highly saturated and pretty cut-throat), or open your own PT studio with other trainers working for you.

Being a PT gave me the freedom to spend lots of time with my kids as they grew up, but now they're at school age, I'm moving into another career and keeping my PT as a bit of extra cash.

A few things you should probably know before making the choice:

- If you don't like early mornings and/or late nights, don't bother.
- Qualifications mean very little. I've met some amazing trainers who have only done quite short courses, and useless trainers who have uni degrees.
- In this part of the world, summer and Xmas are killers. They are two times in the year when you will have a real lull.
- How you relate to people is infinitely more important than impressing people with fancy training plans or exercises.
- You won't make any money in a salaried PT position.
- If you're self-employed, you're constantly thinking about lost income when not working.

That's my 2c. Good luck if you go for it.

Transform

this is a good article also - how do i learn to be a great coach

Mellor

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Mellor wrote: »

I think you way off with 3.8 hours tbh.
Sure, 3.8x30x260=almost 30k

But you are forgetting tax. To clear 30k, you have to turn over maybe 40k. Which is 5 hours per day.
And offices workers don't do 260 days, (5days x 52weeks), it's about 230days average. So that's 5.8hours, per day. Plus you'll probably be paying a gym rent. So your looks at 6+ hours of billable time per day. Which is not going to happen I'd imagine.

If you want to be taking home 30k, you need be able to charge more than 30/hr

I was talking about the before tax salary. (Who gives their salary as the after tax amount when asked?)

Office workers do "work" 260 days but one of the benefits of an office job is paid holidays and bank holidays off. No such benefit being self employed.

Only seen your reply just now.

Sure, an employee usually quotes their before tax salary, but a self employed PT doesn't have a salary.
That's not just semantics either. There's a massive difference between a 30k salary and a 30k turnover for a self employed person. That's the point, people need to be aware of that if they are serious about PT as a career, and not just expected to hourly rate = cash in pocket.