ATH FINAL MATCH - The Grandaddy Of Them All - Surewhywouldntya vs LeeJM

beakerjoe

Well its been a few grueling weeks and many battles, but 16 competitors are now whittled down to just two fine debaters, Surewhywouldntya and LeeJM.

Lee battled hard, knocking out the trio of Kankan14, Imnotthehulk and Shagnasti on his road to the final while Cheese Wagstaff, BrianRegan and last years winner beakerjoe were all left in Surewhywouldntya's wake on his way to the final.

Both men are deserving finalists and both men will pose tremendous competition for each other in this, the final battle.

You both know the rules guys, heres the big question :

Q. Vince was Wrestlemania 33 in his sights and he poses you the toughest task yet. He wants you to do what he and his creative team has failed to do.

He wants you to get Roman Reigns over as a face!

So you have from today until Wrestlemania 33 get The Big Dawg over as a fan favourite. Whats your plan? How do you get someone so resented by the fans as a face to be cheered as a hero come April 2017?

Its up to you, you map out the plans for Roman from now until WM33, the only catch is your plan must have Roman portrayed as a bonafide babyface come Wrestlemania.

So whats your plan to try accomplish what Vince and his creative team have failed to do.

Good Luck fellas..... you'll need it.

SureYWouldntYa

I'm happy for this to conclude at Mania 33, all my answers have had storylines concluding at Mania as I believe that's the best place to have the ending to most feuds.

Monday night raw on the 29th August, it's the fatal 4 way between Owens, Big Cass, Rollins and Reigns for the Universal Championship. The way WWE have booked in the past you'd think Reigns is going to walk out the champion again, solidify him as the big dog and keep building the roman empire. I'm not going to do that, in fact I'm going to keep him away from the title altogether. Him being back so near the title after his failed test and limp reign would be poison to his career. I''m going to book him in a simple but effective way designed to actually give fans a reason to cheer him, and a reason to boo his opponent too.

Fatal 4 way time. The match is going as regular booking would expect you, Reigns and Big Cass on top most of the match. Just as Reigns seem to be gearing up for the final spear on Owens, he does his OOOOAAAAA thing, he gets booed as per. Out of nowhere Rusev attacks him and keeps him in the accolade, allowing Rollins to hit the pedigree on Owens and win the match. Reigns is understandably furious, and Rusev high tails it out of the arena before he gets a chance to get back at Rusev. Reigns wants a match at Clash of Champions for Rusev's US Title, but Stephanie denies him this match saying he doesn't deserve a match since he caused their match as Summerslam to be cancelled. Reigns is disappointed, but doesn't argue with Stephanie or attempt to make a smart remark that makes him look fake or stupid, he just says fine and gets on with things. He doesn't have a match scheduled for Clash of Champions, and he goes to Mick Foley asking for a match against someone, anyone at the event, he just wants to compete. Foley says if he wanted to compete he wouldn't have popped back in June and failed a wellness test. You had your chance at the top and you couldnt handle the pressure, you'll get your chance but not now says Foley. Now while comments like these will get cheers and jeers from a lot of the WWE universe, it is done to create some sympathy for Reigns, and moves like this start to create some sympathy for him.

Rusev is facing Sami Zayn for the US Title at Clash of Champions. Towards what seems to be the end of the match, Lana interferes and stops Zayn from hitting a move from the top rope. This allows Rusev time to come out and blast Zayn, before wedging his head between the ring and the steel steps. The ref tries to stop it but Lana hits him from behind knocking him out momentarily. Out of nowhere comes Roman Reigns hitting one of his giant spears after running down the ramp. He throws them in the ring before making Zayn cover Rusev and we have a new US champion. Reigns gets cheered here, he's interfering on behalf of a super face in Zayn and attacking a heel who's wronged him in Rusev.

Next night on Raw, Rusev is furious, screaming in Bulgarian and it seems he wants to face Reigns. Reigns wants Rusev too, but Stephanie won't allow it. The brawl at Summerslam was unacceptable and she won't sanction such a match between the 2 of them. Foley comes out and says he won't sanction such a match either. But they will have a match at Hell in a Cell, and it'll be an unsanctioned match. And the unsanctioned match they have is an all out real brawl. Usual WWE logic would have Reigns win by simple superman punch and spear combo. In this match it's not a normal combo. Roman hits the superman punch knocking Rusev off the ramp near the titantron. He then backs up across the ramp, before running off the ramp with a jumping spear onto Rusev below. A massive power move like this pops the crowd, Reigns hits the 123 and he finally gets cheered when he wins. How could he not get cheered after all that?

Roman is then named on the Raw team due to face a Smackdown team at a traditional Survivor Series match, alongside Cesaro, Big Cass, Big Show and Braun Strowman. The match comes down to the final 4 of Braun Strowman and Reigns against The Miz and Dolph Ziggler. Reigns sees off Dolph Ziggler before Braun Strowman turns on him ko'ing him and allowing The Miz to pick up the win for team Smackdown. Some of the roster is annoyed at Reigns for allowing Smackdown to pick up the bragging rights by winning, Big Show especially puts pressure on Reigns for not getting the job done, saying he shouldn't have trusted Strowman. Reigns and Big Show go on to have a match at Roadblock, with Reigns picking up the win. Show wants a rematch, but Reigns will only give it to him if he'll retire when he beats him at the Royal Rumble. Reigns is looking to something fans have asked for a long time, please retire Big Show.

Since he lost that title match in August, Reigns has been a bit quieter. Gone are the stupid remarks, sufferin succotash. He's just beating people he should be and going about his business in a place on the card people actually don't mind seeing him. Big Show points all this out, saying Reigns has lost his edge since coming back from his suspension, coincidence? Reigns comes out and says he didn't pop for steroids, he popped for adderall, and he took it to cope with the stress of life at the top. Fans didn't like him, the schedule was hard, it all came about too fast, too hard and he needed to take something to increase his energy. WWE were trying to make him the new Cena, but Roman says he's not the new Cena, nobody is. There's a reason people call Cena a machine for all his pr appearances. He's done trying to be the new Cena, he's just going to go out and be Roman Reigns.

The match at the Rumble is even enough, as would be expected for what appears to be Show's final match. Reigns hits the sit down powerbomb, and with that ends the career of Big Show. Show is visibly upset and annoyed at the end of the match, but shakes the hand of Roman Reigns anyway and all looks to be rosy on Show's final minutes. Braun Strowman comes from behind the 2 guys and attacks Reigns, laying him out. So what appears to be Show's final moments, going out gracefully, are ruined by Braun Strowman.

Strowman explains his actions by saying Big Show was his hero, can you guess why? He's been crap over the past few years, only winning a world title once in 15 years, a guy like Show, a guy like Strowman should be champ. He wasn't going to let his hero go on a whimper by being beaten, he's going to steal the thunder of the guy who got rid of his guy. Show interupts saying he had no right to attack Reigns like that, Show was man enough to challenge Reigns but if he couldn't overcome someone like Reigns this time he didn't want to have a career. They brawl before saying Strowman says if anyone is going to end Shows career it's going to be him. Before seemingly laying out Show for good Reigns comes out for the save, fighting over Strowman. Show wants a match at the February PPV against Strowman, Foley won't allow him as he's supposed to be retired. Show points out Foley lost a retirement match but went on to main event Mania 2 months later. Foley points out he didn't lose the match, Cactus Jack did and Mick Foley went on to Mania. Big Show isn't going to face Strowman, but Paul Wight is. They have a match at the February PPV, and Strowman beats Show easily. He attacks him after the match, and looks to be ending the career of Show by injury more than anything. Reigns again comes out for the save, before challenging Strowman to a match at Mania 33. Reigns goes on to beat the giant Strowman at Wrestlemania in a short match early in the card, a place in the card people actually want to see him. Strowman has been built up strong but people don't want to see him as a monster heel so he's going to part of the rebuild

You may notice I've barely had Reigns appear on Raw, that's by design. One big way of getting him cheered is to not have him there all the time. It's hard to turn him into a face while not turning him heel first, but making his appearances a little more sporadic allows him to become a bit of a special attraction. He needs for all the air to be let out of his tyre before inflating it slowly again. Other people on the card deserve a chance at the very top, and Reigns will get more time at the top in time. But putting him in feuds against heels who will get booed like Rusev, Big Show and Braun Strowman means he can rise a bit more organically. I think there's no other way to have him cheered as a babyface come Wrestlemania 33, he's not going to be welcome at the very top no matter what you try to do.

If you keep him away from the title scene for over 6 months people might actually want to see him back at the top when the time comes. He's established as a near silent babyface, just going out and kicking ass, he's not copying anyone and he's just going to do out and do his thing. And this way he's actually going to be liked.

LeeJM

First off apologies to everyone. Unfortunately real life has a way of putting obstacles in our path and taking all our time.

Now Roman F'N Reigns. To get this guy cheered by the majority of the audience is gonna take a hell of a job but I think I have a plan that will succeed.

This Monday on Raw Seth Rollins will win the Universal Title in the 4 way match. Roman will then win a triple threat match vs Cass & Kevin Owens to become #1 contender for the Title at Clash of Champions. Yes I know it all sounds very similar and in no way will Roman be getting cheers from the crowd leading in to Clash of Champions. And at the Network Event/PPV Seth Rollins would again cleanly pin Roman 1..2..3 and remain Universal Champion. Which leads us to the next night on Monday Night Raw.....

Monday 26th September. Roman comes out to open the show but this isnt the usual Roman. No smiles, no smirks, just keeps his head down and makes his way to the ring. Cole said Roman isnt scheduled out till later in the show. The crowd are merciless in their booing of Roman who still hasnt raised his head. With his head still bowed and the microphone to his mouth Roman begins to speak

"You are right to boo me! Hell if I were you guys I would boo me too. I have let you guys down again and again. I said Id beat Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania 31 and I didnt. I said I would rid the WWE of The Authority and I didnt. Im a 4 time WWE Champion and not 1 of those reigns has been worth a damn. I let you all down when I failed a Wellness Test. I let you all down again last night when Seth Rollins beat me in the middle of this ring."

Still Romans head remains bowed as all we can see his his hair over his face and shots of the fans reacting to Romans words as some continue to boo and cat call Roman

"Something isnt right. Somewhere along the line something has changed. I no longer feel like myself and I cant give my all anymore. I cant let you all down again. I need to go away for a while. I need to find out what has changed. I need to fix whatever it is that has gone wrong. I .........."

Kevin Owens music hits and Owens walks out alongside his new running buddies The Club. Roman still hasnt looked up as Owens and The Club walk towards the ring

KO "AWWWWW poor Roman is upset guys. He has let everyone down. I mean I know he lets me down everytime he comes out here looking the same way he has since he debuted 4 years ago. Roman its ok to change your clothes, The Shield are never coming back. And with you using the music and dressing the same way the last 4 years it feels like The Shield has never gone away.

And you dont just get to decide when you leave. You cant just walk away. You cost me MY Universal Title shot and what did you do? You blew it like always Roman. These fans couldnt care less about you. They dont care if you leave. I dont care if you leave but you aint leaving until..."

Owens and The Club jump Reigns and just absolutely destroy him. In a symbolic moment Owens rips Romans vest off and tosses it. Owens and The Club leave Roman a bloody mess and nobody from the locker room did anything as Roman has no allies.

This would be the last we would see of Roman Reigns on Raw in 2016. Meanwhile The Elite Club (yes Im ripping off The Elite and doing an Elite Bullet Club type deal) run roughshod over Raw. Gallows and Anderson win the tag titles at Hell in a Cell and Owens beats Big E for the US Title. Along the line they help Brian Kendrick screw Neville out of the Cruiserweight Title and then injure Neville so he is off tv for a while. The Elite Club is set now as a 4 man squad.

Coming out of the Royal Rumble, a returning Neville is still trying to get his rematch at Kendrick for the CW Title. The #1 contenders to the Tag Titles is a new team by the name of The Kings of Wrestling. Yes Chris Hero arrived on Raw in late November and immediately began tagging with Cesaro. They had beaten everyone except Guns N Gallows who refuse to face them. On a middle of January Raw, the main event is The Elite Club (Guns N Gallows & Kendrick w/Owens ringside) Vs Kings of Wrestling and Neville. The match quickly becomes a 4 on 3 beatdown as The Elite Club use their numbers advantage and pick apart their rivals.

Then unfamiliar music begins playing and the lights dim so that only a shadow is visible on the stage. We see a shaved head bowed and a man dressed in black trunks knee pads and white boots and as the song picks up the head slowly raises and we see its Roman Reigns. The Elite Club are shocked but its still 4 on 1 so they fancy their chances as Reigns methodically marches to the ring his eyes burning a hole through Owens. As Reigns enters Owens bails and Kendrick eats a spear. Then Gallows takes a spear. Anderson hits Reigns on the back with a chair but it has no effect. Anderson is dumped with a Last Ride Powerbomb by Roman. The fans are losing their sh*t. A new Roman Reigns has arrived.

Leading into WM Reigns only has one official match in which he beats Gallows with a spear followed by a Last Ride. Roman never speaks. His only words are The Elite Club. The reason he returned ; The Elite Club. The reason he changed his look ; The Elite Club. Whos Next Who is he gonna destroy ; The Elite Club.

At WM we get a 1 vs 1 with Neville beating Kendrick for the CW Title and then its 3 vs 3 Orlando Street Fight as The Elite Club (Owens & Guns N Gallows) vs Reigns & The Kings of Wrestling. Reigns gets the pin on Anderson with a Last Ride through a stack of chairs.

Well thats my plan. Have Roman admit his faults. He gets taken out by a new dominant heel faction and when he returns its as a brand new man. He no longer talks in 15 minute promos. Hes a man of action and his first goal is to destroy The Elite Club(awful name I know). If this wouldnt get Roman over as a babyface then nothing would.

SureYWouldntYa

Lee, I'm going to be harsh here, but I'm also going to tell the truth.

Your answer is a complete cop out to the question asked.

Unless Roman Reigns is legit injured, or popped again, there's no chance of him just being wrote off tv for 4 months. Doing this just to get the hot return is a cop out in booking terms.

It wouldn't even be a positive to get fans to cheer him, IWC heroes like Owens, Kenderick and Anderson/Gallows are going to be cheered by a lot of crowd when they beat up Reigns.You need to put him against real heels, people and characters who most of the fans don't like, such as Rusev, Big Show and Strowman.

With my answer, I don't have him full on leave, because that's not something that would be done and isn't practical either. When has someone ever been booked off for that amount of time just because it might fit the storyline. In my scenario, having him appear less makes him more of a special attraction. He's not being pushed down the fans throats again in this rebooking, with you he comes in and destroys 4 guys, not much of a rebooking is it.

Your scenario just isn't going to get him cheered, you could have Kevin Owens castrate Reigns and the same people that boo Reigns and cheer Owens would still boo Reigns and cheer Owens. I get that you're making him into this silent killer, ala Goldberg, much like I've done myself. I just think you're not doing it in the right way or using the right people against Reigns, coupled with having him conveniently leave only to come back and do the same old shtick means Roman Reigns still gets booed. Silent or not.

LeeJM

Your answer is a complete cop out to the question asked.

Unless Roman Reigns is legit injured, or popped again, there's no chance of him just being wrote off tv for 4 months. Doing this just to get the hot return is a cop out in booking terms.

Not a cop out at all. Roman was over to a major degree before his booking was turned to sh*t, just think back to RR 14. Never hear the term absence makes the heart grow fonder?

It wouldn't even be a positive to get fans to cheer him, IWC heroes like Owens, Kenderick and Anderson/Gallows are going to be cheered by a lot of crowd when they beat up Reigns.You need to put him against real heels, people and characters who most of the fans don't like, such as Rusev, Big Show and Strowman.

So Owens, GnG and Kendrick arent real heels but Rusev, Big Show and Strowman are?? Strowman is not a heel for beating up jobbers the same way Ryback wasnt a heel when he beat up jobbers. Rusev is more over than most babyfaces and Big Show well lets not go there. Owens, GnG and Kendrick are more than capable of generating heat and getting over as b*stard heels. Hell Kendrick is getting over as a heel in the CWC! A silent, vengeful new look Roman going after them 100% gets cheered, of this I have no doubt.

With my answer, I don't have him full on leave, because that's not something that would be done and isn't practical either. When has someone ever been booked off for that amount of time just because it might fit the storyline. In my scenario, having him appear less makes him more of a special attraction. He's not being pushed down the fans throats again in this rebooking, with you he comes in and destroys 4 guys, not much of a rebooking is it.

So because its never been done before in WWE lets never ever try it?! How creative.......As for when someone has been booked off for that amount of time just for storyline purposes, well there was this one guy in WCW, I think you might have heard of called Sting. And him being booked like that lead to Sting being the second most over babyface in wrestling in 1997 (behind Steve Austin). He comess back and rescues some major fan favourites and destroys 3 dispensable heels while the leader Owens bails out. Its called getting a hot return, look at the Undertaker returning at Judgement Day 2000 and destroying like 6 guys in seconds.

Your scenario just isn't going to get him cheered, you could have Kevin Owens castrate Reigns and the same people that boo Reigns and cheer Owens would still boo Reigns and cheer Owens. I get that you're making him into this silent killer, ala Goldberg, much like I've done myself. I just think you're not doing it in the right way or using the right people against Reigns, coupled with having him conveniently leave only to come back and do the same old shtick means Roman Reigns still gets booed. Silent or not.

So my idea is like yours but its the same old shtick?! Ill say again Owens, Kendrick and GnG are good enough to get genuine heat and that is the only way Roman is ever gonna get cheered unless he turns and then organically turns face when the fans want to cheer him again.


Now your idea. You said you were gonna be harsh and tell the truth. Im gonna do the same. If your idea was on tv I may stop watching Raw. Harsh I know but I just dont see how or why anybody could enjoy it.

Fatal 4 way time. The match is going as regular booking would expect you, Reigns and Big Cass on top most of the match. Just as Reigns seem to be gearing up for the final spear on Owens, he does his OOOOAAAAA thing, he gets booed as per. Out of nowhere Rusev attacks him and keeps him in the accolade, allowing Rollins to hit the pedigree on Owens and win the match. Reigns is understandably furious, and Rusev high tails it out of the arena before he gets a chance to get back at Rusev. Reigns wants a match at Clash of Champions for Rusev's US Title, but Stephanie denies him this match saying he doesn't deserve a match since he caused their match as Summerslam to be cancelled. Reigns is disappointed, but doesn't argue with Stephanie or attempt to make a smart remark that makes him look fake or stupid, he just says fine and gets on with things. He doesn't have a match scheduled for Clash of Champions, and he goes to Mick Foley asking for a match against someone, anyone at the event, he just wants to compete. Foley says if he wanted to compete he wouldn't have popped back in June and failed a wellness test. You had your chance at the top and you couldnt handle the pressure, you'll get your chance but not now says Foley. Now while comments like these will get cheers and jeers from a lot of the WWE universe, it is done to create some sympathy for Reigns, and moves like this start to create some sympathy for him.

So Rusev screws him and then the heel Commish and face GM both castrate him and call him a drug user and say he cant handle being a top guy, eh ok. Not seeing the sympathy here if a beloved GM like Foley is the one calling him out.

Rusev is facing Sami Zayn for the US Title at Clash of Champions. Towards what seems to be the end of the match, Lana interferes and stops Zayn from hitting a move from the top rope. This allows Rusev time to come out and blast Zayn, before wedging his head between the ring and the steel steps. The ref tries to stop it but Lana hits him from behind knocking him out momentarily. Out of nowhere comes Roman Reigns hitting one of his giant spears after running down the ramp. He throws them in the ring before making Zayn cover Rusev and we have a new US champion. Reigns gets cheered here, he's interfering on behalf of a super face in Zayn and attacking a heel who's wronged him in Rusev.

So you have Rusevs long US title reign end in a screw job that makes the winner look like a guy who got lucky that the real star was the one who really beat Rusev? So Reigns gets booed for interfering in what Im sure would be a great match, Zayn looks like a loser who got lucky and Rusev should get sympathy for being screwed out of his title. Yea still not seeing any cheers here.

Next night on Raw, Rusev is furious, screaming in Bulgarian and it seems he wants to face Reigns. Reigns wants Rusev too, but Stephanie won't allow it. The brawl at Summerslam was unacceptable and she won't sanction such a match between the 2 of them. Foley comes out and says he won't sanction such a match either. But they will have a match at Hell in a Cell, and it'll be an unsanctioned match. And the unsanctioned match they have is an all out real brawl. Usual WWE logic would have Reigns win by simple superman punch and spear combo. In this match it's not a normal combo. Roman hits the superman punch knocking Rusev off the ramp near the titantron. He then backs up across the ramp, before running off the ramp with a jumping spear onto Rusev below. A massive power move like this pops the crowd, Reigns hits the 123 and he finally gets cheered when he wins. How could he not get cheered after all that?

So Reigns beats the guy he screwed previously. Still not a babyface here no matter how many big moves he does. Also Rusev is the one taking the risk here with the bump off the stage, so yea Rusev still being booked as the face IMO. Still no cheers for Reigns.

Roman is then named on the Raw team due to face a Smackdown team at a traditional Survivor Series match, alongside Cesaro, Big Cass, Big Show and Braun Strowman. The match comes down to the final 4 of Braun Strowman and Reigns against The Miz and Dolph Ziggler. Reigns sees off Dolph Ziggler before Braun Strowman turns on him ko'ing him and allowing The Miz to pick up the win for team Smackdown. Some of the roster is annoyed at Reigns for allowing Smackdown to pick up the bragging rights by winning, Big Show especially puts pressure on Reigns for not getting the job done, saying he shouldn't have trusted Strowman. Reigns and Big Show go on to have a match at Roadblock, with Reigns picking up the win. Show wants a rematch, but Reigns will only give it to him if he'll retire when he beats him at the Royal Rumble. Reigns is looking to something fans have asked for a long time, please retire Big Show.

So Reigns pins a fellow face in Ziggler (still being a heel) before Strowman swerves him and the Raw locker room blames Roman? Big Show is a heel again then? So Reigns beats Show again (bet the crowd would love that match) and then wont give Show a rematch unless he retires? Real fan favourite this Roman is, his fellow roster mates hate him and he wants to force a guy to retire, what a hero!

Since he lost that title match in August, Reigns has been a bit quieter. Gone are the stupid remarks, sufferin succotash. He's just beating people he should be and going about his business in a place on the card people actually don't mind seeing him. Big Show points all this out, saying Reigns has lost his edge since coming back from his suspension, coincidence? Reigns comes out and says he didn't pop for steroids, he popped for adderall, and he took it to cope with the stress of life at the top. Fans didn't like him, the schedule was hard, it all came about too fast, too hard and he needed to take something to increase his energy. WWE were trying to make him the new Cena, but Roman says he's not the new Cena, nobody is. There's a reason people call Cena a machine for all his pr appearances. He's done trying to be the new Cena, he's just going to go out and be Roman Reigns.

A Big Show Roman Reigns promo battle, thats really gonna get him over! Also saying he is less than Cena isnt really gonna help. Still no cheers.

The match at the Rumble is even enough, as would be expected for what appears to be Show's final match. Reigns hits the sit down powerbomb, and with that ends the career of Big Show. Show is visibly upset and annoyed at the end of the match, but shakes the hand of Roman Reigns anyway and all looks to be rosy on Show's final minutes. Braun Strowman comes from behind the 2 guys and attacks Reigns, laying him out. So what appears to be Show's final moments, going out gracefully, are ruined by Braun Strowman.

Strowman is the only one that would be cheered here. The RR is a smark crowd and your story with Roman and Show isnt getting either of them cheered. I imagine it would get a Sheamus Randy Orton style crowd reaction. So yea still no cheers.

Strowman explains his actions by saying Big Show was his hero, can you guess why? He's been crap over the past few years, only winning a world title once in 15 years, a guy like Show, a guy like Strowman should be champ. He wasn't going to let his hero go on a whimper by being beaten, he's going to steal the thunder of the guy who got rid of his guy. Show interupts saying he had no right to attack Reigns like that, Show was man enough to challenge Reigns but if he couldn't overcome someone like Reigns this time he didn't want to have a career. They brawl before saying Strowman says if anyone is going to end Shows career it's going to be him. Before seemingly laying out Show for good Reigns comes out for the save, fighting over Strowman. Show wants a match at the February PPV against Strowman, Foley won't allow him as he's supposed to be retired. Show points out Foley lost a retirement match but went on to main event Mania 2 months later. Foley points out he didn't lose the match, Cactus Jack did and Mick Foley went on to Mania. Big Show isn't going to face Strowman, but Paul Wight is. They have a match at the February PPV, and Strowman beats Show easily. He attacks him after the match, and looks to be ending the career of Show by injury more than anything. Reigns again comes out for the save, before challenging Strowman to a match at Mania 33. Reigns goes on to beat the giant Strowman at Wrestlemania in a short match early in the card, a place in the card people actually want to see him. Strowman has been built up strong but people don't want to see him as a monster heel so he's going to part of the rebuild

So again Roman jumps a heel after a match and Roman is the face?! And he goes on to end Strowmans unbeaten run at WM, thats really gonna get over in Orlando....Your plan has changed nothing. Roman is still the one attacking others and being the heel IMO. He screws a guy out of his title before destroying him at the next PPV. He beats and retires a beloved star from the Attitude Era and then ends the unbeaten run of a younger guy. Yea not seeing the cheers at all here. Nothing has changed except maybe Roman being even more of a d*ck. Of course Vince will read your idea and think its magic and look how many cheers Vinces booking gets Roman right now.

SureYWouldntYa

Not a cop out at all. Roman was over to a major degree before his booking was turned to sh*t, just think back to RR 14. Never hear the term absence makes the heart grow fonder?

And when he returned at TLC '14 he got a pop too. Doesn't mean you actually booking him to leave isn't a cop out in booking terms. Of course it's hard to get Roman cheered, but you're going for the easiest route to get him that initial push towards the crowd cheering him. There's very little chance Roman going after these guys gets him cheered off the bat.

Putting him out of action for storyline reasons for 4 months isn't practical. Does he get paid for this time by WWE even though he's doing nothing? I'm going to assume he's near the top earners, so they'd be paying him a lot to sit at home.

So Owens, GnG and Kendrick arent real heels but Rusev, Big Show and Strowman are?? Strowman is not a heel for beating up jobbers the same way Ryback wasnt a heel when he beat up jobbers. Rusev is more over than most babyfaces and Big Show well lets not go there. Owens, GnG and Kendrick are more than capable of generating heat and getting over as b*stard heels. Hell Kendrick is getting over as a heel in the CWC! A silent, vengeful new look Roman going after them 100% gets cheered, of this I have no doubt.

I picked those 3 guys for Roman to face because they're heels the crowd actually doesn't like and boos. They get booed, KO doesn't get booed because he's such a charismatic character, he's literally the worst guy you could put against Roman. Rusev, while appreciated for his heel work, gets booed. Different kinds of heel to be putting against Roman, one makes sense if you want Roman to be cheered, one doesn't.

Strowman isn't just a heel, he's someone who if Roman went up against people would actually cheer Roman. The whole point of picking Strowman, and the whole point of our answers.

So because its never been done before in WWE lets never ever try it?! How creative.......As for when someone has been booked off for that amount of time just for storyline purposes, well there was this one guy in WCW, I think you might have heard of called Sting. And him being booked like that lead to Sting being the second most over babyface in wrestling in 1997 (behind Steve Austin). He comess back and rescues some major fan favourites and destroys 3 dispensable heels while the leader Owens bails out. Its called getting a hot return, look at the Undertaker returning at Judgement Day 2000 and destroying like 6 guys in seconds.

And how did they follow up on Sting after Starrcade '97? How did he fare in the match? Good storyline at the time, final execution didn't work. Also he wasn't properly gone the whole time, he'd appear to scare the NWO, ie being used for storyline purposes and fullfilling a role. In your world Roman has his feet on the couch for 4 months, since he's injured he can't go doing much in public. No PR appearances or anything like that, since he's storyline injured.

So you build up this "Elite Club" only to call them "dispensable heels" and feed them to Roman. Sure fire way to get Roman over as a face, booking people strong for months who the crowd actually appreciate, (the big difference between these guys and Braun Strowman), only to feed them to Roman.

Owens, Kendrick and GnG are good enough to get genuine heat

You're right, have them attack the New Day/Enzo&Cass and you'll have them booed

Have them opposite Reigns without any character development apart from Roman getting attacked once equals the cool heels once again

They're not the heels to put against Reigns in order to get him cheered

If your idea was on tv I may stop watching Raw.

I didn't say what else was going on with Raw at the time. I have Roman in a lower card role, not in the main event. That role is free for the likes of KO, Rollins, and several others people would actually want to see there. I think you'd be lying if you said you'd stop watching in the reality of my scenario.

I'd also say I'd stop watching Raw, but you've jumped 4 months in time so can't watch Raw in that time.

Reigns gets booed for interfering

Did people boo Goldberg when he interfered to allow Eddie to beat Brock? Did anyone care that that's how Eddie won the title? People liked Eddie, they wanted to see him win. People like Zayn, they want to see him win.

Rusev interfered first in Roman's title match, why would he get sympathy when Reigns gets him back?

Roman should start to get cheered now in my world, but in your world he's doing nothing. Resting at home to come back when it suits, people loved that in the 2016 Rumble.

Still no cheers for Reigns

At least I'm trying.

Reigns pins a fellow face in Ziggler (still being a heel)

Okay this is my fault here, I forgot to say Ziggler is a heel, in reality it looks like he'd heading that way and I forgot to point that out.

A Big Show Roman Reigns promo battle, thats really gonna get him over! Also saying he is less than Cena isnt really gonna help. Still no cheers.

It's something that has to be done to serve a storyline purpose. Finally getting Big Show to retire is a move that would get near anyone cheers.

And again, I'm trying to book a path for Roman. You have him doing all of 3 things in your entire story, get attacked and leave, return, beat up the guys the crowd appreciates. Great character development.

I imagine it would get a Sheamus Randy Orton style crowd reaction

You'd be right if this was any other match than a match where if Roman wins the guy nobody likes leaves. What's that? A reason to actually cheer Roman.

Roman jumps a heel

He's not jumping him, he's saving someone. Again, what's that? A reason to actually cheer Roman.

a beloved star from the Attitude Era

Sure seems beloved with all the please retire chants. A beloved star is Kevin Owens or Gallows/Anderson.

Vince will read your idea and think its magic

He'll read your idea and fire you on the spot. If we're to present a storyline to Vince, my idea has him actually doing something and developing as a character. Yours has him doing nothing for 4 months.


So to end things on my end. My idea puts Roman in a place in the card we wouldn't mind actually seeing him, against people nobody wants to see win. He's actually performing on the card too, not leaving for months to come back and do the same old shtick. My answer also actually answers the question asked, having Roman leave for 4 months isn't booking.

LeeJM

And when he returned at TLC '14 he got a pop too. Doesn't mean you actually booking him to leave isn't a cop out in booking terms. Of course it's hard to get Roman cheered, but you're going for the easiest route to get him that initial push towards the crowd cheering him. There's very little chance Roman going after these guys gets him cheered off the bat.

So the challenge was to get Roman cheered and your problem with my plan is I went the easiest route?? Seems like I went the logical route. The route that would yield the result that we were tasked with achieving. And there is every chance a new look Roman, a vengeful Roman gets mega cheered going after some real heels, not a face near retirement and a green giant that nobody wants to see unless he is squashing jobbers.

Putting him out of action for storyline reasons for 4 months isn't practical. Does he get paid for this time by WWE even though he's doing nothing? I'm going to assume he's near the top earners, so they'd be paying him a lot to sit at home.

Of course they would be paying him! He has a contract with a downside. And this is a multi million dollar company so paying Roman while he is off tv isnt a big deal. A total non issue.

I picked those 3 guys for Roman to face because they're heels the crowd actually doesn't like and boos. They get booed, KO doesn't get booed because he's such a charismatic character, he's literally the worst guy you could put against Roman. Rusev, while appreciated for his heel work, gets booed. Different kinds of heel to be putting against Roman, one makes sense if you want Roman to be cheered, one doesn't.

Kevin Owens is very much capable of being booed. Just go look at his run as leader of SCUM in ROH. Your idea is to continue on a feud in which Roman is being booed while you continue to book him as the heel.

Strowman isn't just a heel, he's someone who if Roman went up against people would actually cheer Roman.

Nope.

And how did they follow up on Sting after Starrcade '97? How did he fare in the match? Good storyline at the time, final execution didn't work

Whats that got to do with my answer?! WCW was a mess so of course they messed up such an easy home run story! You asked for an example of a time when a star was off tv for 4 months or longer and I gave you an example of a star being off tv for nearly 15 months and becoming a mega star because of it.

So you build up this "Elite Club" only to call them "dispensable heels" and feed them to Roman. Sure fire way to get Roman over as a face, booking people strong for months who the crowd actually appreciate, (the big difference between these guys and Braun Strowman), only to feed them to Roman.

So fans appreciate my heels but dont care about the guy you selected and you still expect that Roman will be cheered in your world?? Sounds more like booing or even worse crickets! I called Kendrick and GnG dispensable heels as thats what they are. The real prize is getting to Owens. And any booker worth his salt is able to have a heel lose one night and then get his heat back the following night. Its how storylines progress and characters move onto new feuds. The Elite Club would move on to a new target after Roman. Maybe change brands and go after AJ or Ambrose etc.....

You're right, have them attack the New Day/Enzo&Cass and you'll have them booed

Have them opposite Reigns without any character development apart from Roman getting attacked once equals the cool heels once again

They're not the heels to put against Reigns in order to get him cheered

Without character development?! Are you just ignoring my whole idea. I had Roman admit he had failed the fans and that he had let them and himself down far too many times. He acknowledged that something was wrong and he was going away to fix it. And then when he returns he is a new man! New look, new music, new moves! THAT IS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!

Did people boo Goldberg when he interfered to allow Eddie to beat Brock? Did anyone care that that's how Eddie won the title? People liked Eddie, they wanted to see him win. People like Zayn, they want to see him win.

Rusev interfered first in Roman's title match, why would he get sympathy when Reigns gets him back?

Roman should start to get cheered now in my world, but in your world he's doing nothing. Resting at home to come back when it suits, people loved that in the 2016 Rumble.

Sami Zayn is not Eddie Guerrero! Eddie had built such a rapport with the fans by 2003 that he had to be turned face because we wouldnt boo him! Eddie could have shot somebody and he wasnt getting booed. Sami Zayn wishes he had that rapport with fans. And I like Sami but Eddie he is not!

People also like Rusev. We enjoy his shtick and to see his lengthy run ended because of Roman isnt getting Roman cheered. Its loading sympathy onto Rusev because that b*stard Reigns wont leave him be. He is absent in my world because we are sick of him right now. But you know as soon as he is gone we will all be clamouring for his return.

At least I'm trying.

You are! But so is WWE right now so ye have that in common as well as the lack of cheers for Roman.

It's something that has to be done to serve a storyline purpose. Finally getting Big Show to retire is a move that would get near anyone cheers.

It really wouldnt. If that was the case WWE would be running a storyline with Show as the biggest heel imaginable putting his career on the line in all his feuds.

And again, I'm trying to book a path for Roman. You have him doing all of 3 things in your entire story, get attacked and leave, return, beat up the guys the crowd appreciates. Great character development.

3 things?! He loses another championship match. He admits to the fans and himself he has failed them. He gets bloodied and laid out to get over a new heel act. He changes nearly everything about himself in his return. Where are you not seeing the character development?!

You'd be right if this was any other match than a match where if Roman wins the guy nobody likes leaves. What's that? A reason to actually cheer Roman.

Roman jumps a heel

He's not jumping him, he's saving someone. Again, what's that? A reason to actually cheer Roman.

So Roman beats a guy nobody cares about so he should be cheered. Then Roman jumps Strowman who is attacking Big Show so he should be cheered even though nobody cares about Big Show? So Roman should be cheered for saving someone that nobody cares about? You are wrapping yourself in knots there mate.

Sure seems beloved with all the please retire chants. A beloved star is Kevin Owens or Gallows/Anderson.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the please retire chants havnt happened for a while now. We all know he is retiring at WM. And damn right Owens and GnG are beloved! Which means they will be hated all that much more when they become true d*ckhead heels.

He'll read your idea and fire you on the spot. If we're to present a storyline to Vince, my idea has him actually doing something and developing as a character. Yours has him doing nothing for 4 months.

Your idea is to basically book Roman as a heel and then book him against Strowman at Mania. Listen Vince will love that........the fans wont though. Roman never develops in your story! He is literally the very same guy as he is now. Except even faces like Mick Foley and Big Show and the whole Raw locker room now hate him too.

In those 4 months off I basically reinvent Roman. He is still a 4 time champ but he is a new man. New demeanor. New look. New music. No more sh*t promos. No more f*cking about with Big Show or the Authority. Just Roman with a purpose, a sole goal. To destroy the heels.

Its a simple choice really. SWWY has booked Roman to remain the same basically. Messing around with Rusev, leading into a confusing feud with Big Show which leads into a feud with Strowman which nobody except Vince McMahon wants to see. All the while Roman looks, talks and acts like a heel while seeking babyface approval.

Whereas I book Roman to admit his faults. He takes a hellish beating to establish a new heel act. And when he returns everything about him has changed. Fans would go batsh*t for new Roman.

beakerjoe

POLL UP EVERYBODY!

beakerjoe

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beakerjoe

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