Cycling Ireland Leisure Commission

morana

if a commission was established what would it do, promote etc.?

would it "police" leisure events? promote a leisure league (how does that work)?

Organise a CI leisure event?

ednwireland

The problem you have is that you have events from a gorified club spin with food at the end to a very professionally organised.
I don't see anything wrong with either as long as you know what it is.
Leisure league errrrrrrrr its not a race cant see that flying

Eamonnator

Is The Great Dublin Bike Ride organised by C.I.?
I seem to remember a Leisure League about 20 years ago, organised by C.I.
I think there was a Mountain Bike as 1st prize, or am I dreaming?


Sorry Morana, I realise, I'm not answering your questions.

morana

i just wondered what a commission could do?

ford2600

morana wrote: »

i just wondered what a commission could do?

Stop thinking like racing cyclists!:)

As I see it there is a massive increase in numbers of leisure cyclist who do club spins at weekends with maybe a mid week spin solo. They glaring weakness I see is lads are clueless on how to find nice solo (or small group) suitable routes. Yet the country is full of them, laneways made for the bike. Maybe start and initiative for clubs to discover/map local routes using ridewithgps/strava or whatever.

Touring cyclists. Develop bike friendly routes linking our ports with tourists hot spots
Ringaskiddy to Waterford, Ringaskiddy to Killarney, Rosslare to Kilkenny etc etc.
Team up with Bord Failte to promote it and maybe offer touring licence/insurance to make it self financing.
This country is made for touring by bike but most seem to be on the wrong roads. Who better than cycling Ireland to promote it and develop it.

Every club has a least one guy who loves knows boreens develop it for our own cyclist and overseas cyclists.

ted1

Family cycles would be good. I plan on dragging the kids down to the new greenway in Waterford.

Seaswimmer

ford2600 wrote: »

Stop thinking like racing cyclists!:)

As I see it there is a massive increase in numbers of leisure cyclist who do club spins at weekends with maybe a mid week spin solo. They glaring weakness I see is lads are clueless on how to find nice solo (or small group) suitable routes. Yet the country is full of them, laneways made for the bike. Maybe start and initiative for clubs to discover/map local routes using ridewithgps/strava or whatever.

Touring cyclists. Develop bike friendly routes linking our ports with tourists hot spots
Ringaskiddy to Waterford, Ringaskiddy to Killarney, Rosslare to Kilkenny etc etc.
Team up with Bord Failte to promote it and maybe offer touring licence/insurance to make it self financing.
This country is made for touring by bike but most seem to be on the wrong roads. Who better than cycling Ireland to promote it and develop it.

Every club has a least one guy who loves knows boreens develop it for our own cyclist and overseas cyclists.

This is an excellent point.

Recently back from a couple of weeks in Ireland in camper van where we cycled most days. Wife is a functional cyclist and about 20k would be her max in one go. Using a fairly basic map we managed to find really quiet roads with lovely rural scenery, friendly people, and generally good road surfaces.

On more than one occasion we discussed how easy it would be to put a few signposts up with a picture of a bike and maybe a route number/letter coupled in with a basic route map.

We did come across some in Skibereen/Baltimore area where there are a number of signposted loop options. It should be easy to replicate this throughout the country.

Mercian Pro

With regard to Sportives, I think a lot more could be done by CI both as guidance for the organising clubs and quality approval of events. I think this could be done while still allowing a wide variety of approaches ranging from tightly managed mass events such as the ROK or Dublin Bike Ride to more self-sufficient sportives like the Mick Byrne. There is also the issue of value for money and how much charities get when they are named as beneficiaries. At present their main focus seems to be on safety and risk assessments (and their possible impact on insurance premiums!)

Beasty

Act as a liaison with organisers. Share experience and good practice. With that all leisure events can aspire to match the better examples.

In terms of "policing" I have mentioned elsewhere on various occasions that CI do have a section on how to organise events. That goes into things such as management plans, and how they should be shared with local policing authorities and councils well in advance of the event. These things, if done properly, require a lot of work to compile and even more to put into practice. A properly constructed and implemented management plan is crucial to protect clubs and their committee members should anything go wrong. In this increasingly litigious society I am sure CI will be looking at these plans in the event of insurance claims. If they are defective its possible the clubs themselves as well as the organisers could be subject to legal action. Hence I think there is plenty CI can do, probably in the form of a leisure commission, to support clubs in their leisure activities

wav1

Cycling Leinster have agreed with Cycling Ireland just this week after lots of talks to finance a full time Events person[official title TBC] to oversee mostly leisure events,meet with organisers pre events,ensure all the boxes are ticked in relation to events being run as safely as possible etc etc etc.To be employed by CI and financed from Leinster.Financed by the extra e5 levy on the leisure licences agreed at last years AGM which was to go to the provinces.I know its not perfect but should help somewhat.This employee also will have ears open at all times to listen to what the bulk of leisure members expect/want going forward.Again its a start.

brocbrocach

wav1 wrote: »

Cycling Leinster have agreed with Cycling Ireland just this week after lots of talks to finance a full time Events person[official title TBC] to oversee mostly leisure events,meet with organisers pre events,ensure all the boxes are ticked in relation to events being run as safely as possible etc etc etc.To be employed by CI and financed from Leinster.Financed by the extra e5 levy on the leisure licences agreed at last years AGM which was to go to the provinces.I know its not perfect but should help somewhat.This employee also will have ears open at all times to listen to what the bulk of leisure members expect/want going forward.Again its a start.

Good on ye, well done!
I think it'd be good for this Events person/CI to have qualitymark powers i.e. event X gets the CI stamp of approval but event Z doesn't because of inadequate marshalling plans, opaqueness re where the money is going, etc

Beasty

brocbrocach wrote: »

Good on ye, well done!
I think it'd be good for this Events person/CI to have qualitymark powers i.e. event X gets the CI stamp of approval but event Z doesn't because of inadequate marshalling plans, opaqueness re where the money is going, etc

The sheer number of events would make that difficult to implement. Currently they don't have the resource to check management plans let alone their implementation (unless something goes wrong). The additional resource mentioned by wav will hopefully be replicated in the other provinces, but I suspect they will have their hands full helping and advising without trying to "grade" events (and then face the wrath of clubs who do not like the results of such grading)

morana

wav1 wrote: »

Cycling Leinster have agreed with Cycling Ireland just this week after lots of talks to finance a full time Events person[official title TBC] to oversee mostly leisure events,meet with organisers pre events,ensure all the boxes are ticked in relation to events being run as safely as possible etc etc etc.To be employed by CI and financed from Leinster.Financed by the extra e5 levy on the leisure licences agreed at last years AGM which was to go to the provinces.I know its not perfect but should help somewhat.This employee also will have ears open at all times to listen to what the bulk of leisure members expect/want going forward.Again its a start.

just for leinster I presume and it will be replicated in the 3 other provinces??

wav1

morana wrote: »

just for leinster I presume and it will be replicated in the 3 other provinces??

yes the person employed will be leinster only.wouldnt presume about other provinces.

Leroy42

So CI want leisure cyclists to take out a licence, pay annual membership, are imposing an additional €5 levy next year but don't have the time to actually check the events for safety and compliance?

Leisure cycling is a growing sector (but hardly a surprise at this stage) and like any business CI needs to adapt to the changing demands. If CI don't have the resources they should get the resources rather than just throw the towel in (whilst still collecting the money!).

There should be minimum standards set to allow a CI endorsed Leisure event to take place. Level of medical care, number of marshalls, road signage etc. If these are met CI should be endorsing events, and by extension not endorsing others. Do CI have these standards for racing? Then if they want to take the leisure cyclists money they need to follow the same template.

Mercian Pro

Any idea wav1 (or others) how this is going to affect the cost of one day licences for sportives? This was a very contentious issue a few months back when a substantial hike was introduced and then withdrawn or postponed.

ford2600

Leroy42 wrote: »

So CI want leisure cyclists to take out a licence, pay annual membership, are imposing an additional €5 levy next year but don't have the time to actually check the events for safety and compliance?

Leisure cycling is a growing sector (but hardly a surprise at this stage) and like any business CI needs to adapt to the changing demands. If CI don't have the resources they should get the resources rather than just throw the towel in (whilst still collecting the money!).

There should be minimum standards set to allow a CI endorsed Leisure event to take place. Level of medical care, number of marshalls, road signage etc. If these are met CI should be endorsing events, and by extension not endorsing others. Do CI have these standards for racing? Then if they want to take the leisure cyclists money they need to follow the same template.

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/events/how-to-organise-a-cycling-ireland-event/risk-assessment-statement3

Have ever read this?

You can download risk assessment template also

if in doubt

Leroy42 wrote: »

So CI want leisure cyclists to take out a licence, pay annual membership, are imposing an additional €5 levy next year but don't have the time to actually check the events for safety and compliance?

Leisure cycling is a growing sector (but hardly a surprise at this stage) and like any business CI needs to adapt to the changing demands. If CI don't have the resources they should get the resources rather than just throw the towel in (whilst still collecting the money!).

There should be minimum standards set to allow a CI endorsed Leisure event to take place. Level of medical care, number of marshalls, road signage etc. If these are met CI should be endorsing events, and by extension not endorsing others. Do CI have these standards for racing? Then if they want to take the leisure cyclists money they need to follow the same template.

Is taking out a licence and paying annual membership not the same thing? The €5 levy was introduced at last years AGM and is already in place. Leisure events are subject to the same risk assessment as races and clubs need to go through the same process to get them registered - if clubs aren't meeting these requirements then I assume their event wouldn't be insured and it's not a position I'd like my club to find itself in.

Great news the Leinster commission are making this move with an events officer, considering the levy that's funding this was proposed by the Munster Commission at the AGM it'd be interesting to know if they and the other provinces plan on doing something similar to Leinster.

Leroy42

Beasty wrote: »

The sheer number of events would make that difficult to implement. Currently they don't have the resource to check management plans let alone their implementation (unless something goes wrong). The additional resource mentioned by wav will hopefully be replicated in the other provinces, but I suspect they will have their hands full helping and advising without trying to "grade" events (and then face the wrath of clubs who do not like the results of such grading)

ford2600 wrote: »

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/page/events/how-to-organise-a-cycling-ireland-event/risk-assessment-statement3

Have ever read this?

You can download risk assessment template also

I was replying to Beasty assertion that CI don't have the resources to undertake that assessments. It is all well and good having a document posted on line, but if no-one is actively checking its implementation then it will fail (much like the Irish habit of introducing new laws but with no resources to actually carry them out!).

I don't disagree about the resources, and the Leinster role is very welcome but surely if CI see the value in Leinster they should be implementing it across the country? They cannot blame a lack of resources, they need to find a way to have the resources to undertake what is required.

Chips Lovell

Are you volunteering to do it?

Leroy42

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Are you volunteering to do it?

No.

And? you're point is what exactly?

I would be prepared to do it for a reasonable wage, although I would imagine that there are better qualified people than myself that could hit the ground running with it rather than having to find their feet. But of course if the terms are attractive I will consider it.

Chips Lovell

All of the work of the Commissions is done by Cycling Ireland members who volunteer to do the job.

if in doubt

Leroy42 wrote: »

I was replying to Beasty assertion that CI don't have the resources to undertake that assessments. It is all well and good having a document posted on line, but if no-one is actively checking its implementation then it will fail (much like the Irish habit of introducing new laws but with no resources to actually carry them out!).

I don't disagree about the resources, and the Leinster role is very welcome but surely if CI see the value in Leinster they should be implementing it across the country? They cannot blame a lack of resources, they need to find a way to have the resources to undertake what is required.

Any club holding a leisure event needs to submit a completed copy of the risk assessment to CI a couple of weeks before the event takes place. From what I can gather this is reviewed by CI and then they'll "authorise" the event the same as they would a road race or other competitive event.

Actually getting out to an event to see if this is being implemented first hand though is a different matter, considering the number of events on the calendar you'd need a lot more than one person per province to do this effectively. Last month CI were looking for people to take part in an event safety programme, so I'd imagine this had some sort of focus on actually going to events to make sure risk assessments and safety plans were being implemented.

Leroy42

if in doubt wrote: »

Any club holding a leisure event needs to submit a completed copy of the risk assessment to CI a couple of weeks before the event takes place. From what I can gather this is reviewed by CI and then they'll "authorise" the event the same as they would a road race or other competitive event.

Actually getting out to an event to see if this is being implemented first hand though is a different matter, considering the number of events on the calendar you'd need a lot more than one person per province to do this effectively. Last month CI were looking for people to take part in an event safety programme, so I'd imagine this had some sort of focus on actually going to events to make sure risk assessments and safety plans were being implemented.

I'm not disagreeing with any of this. i fully understand how time consuming and difficult it is. But, CI have been set up with this in mind. They take licence fee of behalf of members on the notion that they are doing something. Simply claiming that it takes too much work to do something is not enough.

Sending a form in is nothing more than a box ticking exercise. Yes, if something happens it could lead to consequences if the work that was said to have been done wasn't but that its too late. The crash etc has already happened and CI are left to run around in damage imitation mode.

In regards to volunteering, the commission might be voluntary but the Leinster Rep is not, and neither should it be. CI should have quality mark, given to events that pass the test. This doesn't mean every single part of every single event needs to be checked, but a correct process, which I agree is already in place, followed up by the necessary spot checks and action taken if conditions are not met should be implemented.

There is a huge area of development that can be driven by getting people involved in cycling early and it has clear that there is always a certain % of sportive type riders that progress to racing. Make it a safe, enjoyable events and get families involved and the sport will naturally grow. So investment in that area leads to improvements in all areas.

Sorry, I should state that this is in my opinion, I accept that it doesn't necessarily make it true.

brocbrocach

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

All of the work of the Commissions is done by Cycling Ireland members who volunteer to do the job.

This is in the context of an events co-ordinator/liason being employed by Leinster, funded by a small part of the leisure licence.

Beasty

Clearly the person in question is not in place yet. Given the number of leisure events on in each province it would be impossible for them to attend and assess each one. Hopefully though part of their remit will be to evaluate management plans and their implementation on a sample basis. That way if there are common errors or poor practice occurring then can liaise with all clubs to improve the quality of events and share best practices.