4 month driving ban in Europe. How do I get my licence if I go to Ireland?

budgie35

I have just received a four month driving ban in Europe and will get my licence back in December. My question is: by coming back to Ireland how will I receive my licence. Must I stay in Europe until December? I just need advise on this matter or who should I possibly contact with regard to this query. Ta

Red Kev

In which country was the licence revoked?
Is the licence Irish or of that other country?
Were you resident in that country at the time or in Ireland?
Are you still resident there, or are you resident in Ireland?

budgie35

Red Kev wrote: »

In which country was the licence revoked?
Is the licence Irish or of that other country?
Were you resident in that country at the time or in Ireland?
Are you still resident there, or are you resident in Ireland?

France
Irish Licence
Resident in France
Still here but possibly going back to Ireland before December and just want to know if I did go back how do I get my licence back also
Thank you so much for your help and answer

Del2005

budgie35 wrote: »

France
Irish Licence
Resident in France
Still here but possibly going back to Ireland before December and just want to know if I did go back how do I get my licence back also
Thank you so much for your help and answer

Contact the equivalent of a solicitor in France.

CiniO

Did French authorities took your licence document?
If so - IMO they did it unlawfully.

I'm not sure if that's the best advice, and if I were you I would consult solicitor in Ireland to make sure it's legal, but I would just report my licence as stolen to NDLA in Ireland and apply for replacement.

You were banned in France and only in France, so French authorities had no right to take your Irish licence off you IMO.

Red Kev

CiniO wrote: »

Did French authorities took your licence document?
If so - IMO they did it unlawfully.

He is a resident of France so they have every right to take his licence.

I'm not sure if that's the best advice, and if I were you I would consult solicitor in Ireland to make sure it's legal, but I would just report my licence as stolen to NDLA in Ireland and apply for replacement.

This was my first thought, but it's a dodgy move and I'd get advice from a EU specialist solicitor first.

You were banned in France and only in France, so French authorities had no right to take your Irish licence off you IMO.

Again, they have every right to take his licence. Being irish abroad does not give you any special rights or privileges over and above local law.



OP: This is the judgement on EU law that applies to you: http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=163879&pageIndex=0&doclang=EN&mode=req&dir=&occ=first&part=1

Esentially they can take the licence off you. Where it gets complex is that you seem to want to quit your residency in France and move back to Ireland. Sorry, but unless the answer is buried in that (or a more recent) judgement, then I don't know the answer to that. You would need to get advice off a solictor who has experience in this area (not cheap).

BTW, they banned you for 4 months as that's the max that they can ban you under that process, any more and it would be a more serious charge, so you got lucky there.


EDIT: Can't find any info on it pertaining to Ireland, but it's an offence to drive in Germany when banned in another EU country.

Your case depends on what the French will do now that you've quit your residency, so contact a solicitor (preferably in France).

Chromosphere

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/driving_offences.html

Gives some information on it.

EU Disqualification: Transfers an order made in one EU state to another where the disqualified person resides. Although the 1998 EU Convention on Driving Disqualifications (98/C 216/01) which allows for such transfer of disqualification orders is not yet in force, it is hoped that this will become law. The Convention relates to disqualification for offences that involve:
- reckless or dangerous driving of a motor vehicle
- hit-and-run driving
- driving a motor vehicle while under the influence of alcohol or other substances affecting or diminishing the driver's mental and physical abilities
- driving a vehicle faster than the permitted speed
In advance of the Convention coming into force, the mutual recognition of driving disqualifications between Ireland and the UK (including Norther Ireland) came into operation from 28 January 2010. (Does not include disqualifications resulting from the accumulation of penalty points.)

If you're living in France and the licence has been taken off you and you reapply in Ireland and use that licence during the ban in France, I suspect you might be up for contempt of court or similar type offences. I would strongly advice against it.

Also, if you have lost your licence, you have to report it in a Garda station and make a written statement as to how it was lost.
So, technically speaking you would have to inform the NDLS and the Gardai here that you have had it taken off you as part of a disqualification in France. Otherwise, you would be lying if you provided them with any explanation which omitted the facts.

savagethegoat

you are banned from driving in France but physically taking the license off you doesn't ban you from driving in Ireland. The actual license record is stored on computer.

budgie35

savagethegoat wrote: »

you are banned from driving in France but physically taking the license off you doesn't ban you from driving in Ireland. The actual license record is stored on computer.

But if i got stopped by the Gardai I wouldn't have my licence. Also would I be covered by Insurance and would I need to explain my situation to the insurance broker also. Thanks for the reply

cml387

budgie35 wrote: »

But if i got stopped by the Gardai I wouldn't have my licence. Also would I be covered by Insurance and would I need to explain my situation to the insurance broker also. Thanks for the reply

This is the bit that might be the problem.
Would you be required to tell an insurance company of the conviction on renewal?
My guess is yes.

budgie35

cml387 wrote: »

budgie35 wrote: »

But if i got stopped by the Gardai I wouldn't have my licence. Also would I be covered by Insurance and would I need to explain my situation to the insurance broker also. Thanks for the reply

This is the bit that might be the problem.
Would you be required to tell an insurance company of the conviction on renewal?
My guess is yes.

Yes I was thinking the same thing unfortunately but I'm not a liar and would prefer to be honest than to have problems down the tracks. However with regard to driving with no license do you think I could apply for a replacement on return to Ireland? Or should I speak to the Gardai? I've emailed the driving licence place for further information so hopefully it is just a ban in France. Thanks for the help

budgie35

cml387 wrote: »

budgie35 wrote: »

But if i got stopped by the Gardai I wouldn't have my licence. Also would I be covered by Insurance and would I need to explain my situation to the insurance broker also. Thanks for the reply

This is the bit that might be the problem.
Would you be required to tell an insurance company of the conviction on renewal?
My guess is yes.

Yes I was thinking the same thing unfortunately but I'm not a liar and would prefer to be honest than to have problems down the tracks. However with regard to driving with no license do you think I could apply for a replacement on return to Ireland? Or should I speak to the Gardai? I've emailed the driving licence place for further information so hopefully it is just a ban in France. Thanks for the help

pippip

I would suspect there is a legal procedure for the licence to be returned to you once you leave the country and are no longer living there. May be a messy procedure and no doubt alot of paperwork.

Oafley Jones

CiniO wrote: »

Did French authorities took your licence document?
If so - IMO they did it unlawfully.

I'm not sure if that's the best advice, and if I were you I would consult solicitor in Ireland to make sure it's legal, but I would just report my licence as stolen to NDLA in Ireland and apply for replacement.

You were banned in France and only in France, so French authorities had no right to take your Irish licence off you IMO.

Seriously Cinio how about you start checking stuff before posting. Your advice is nearly always wrong.

CiniO

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Seriously Cinio how about you start checking stuff before posting. Your advice is nearly always wrong.

And what is wrong with this advice?

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

And what is wrong with this advice?

The OP has a driving ban so they will most likely void their insurance if they follow your advice. In my years of driving I was always asked if I was banned or convicted, there was never a question of where just if.

Marcusm

Chromosphere wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/driving_offences.html

Gives some information on it.



If you're living in France and the licence has been taken off you and you reapply in Ireland and use that licence during the ban in France, I suspect you might be up for contempt of court or similar type offences. I would strongly advice against it.

Also, if you have lost your licence, you have to report it in a Garda station and make a written statement as to how it was lost.
So, technically speaking you would have to inform the NDLS and the Gardai here that you have had it taken off you as part of a disqualification in France. Otherwise, you would be lying if you provided them with any explanation which omitted the facts.

The 1998 directive was repealed by regulation in January 2016 as insufficient Member States had ratified it. There is thus, with the exception on the bilateral agreement between the UK and Irelland, no mutual recognition of bans across member states.

France is entitled to ban the OP within its jurisdiction, however, his entitlement to drive is based on an Irish qualification. Due to the principle of territoriality, France does not have the ability to ban him from driving worldwide or interfering with his entitlement to drive outside its national borders.

I suspect that France has overreached its powers by withholding the physical license and should, if requested by the OP, return it to him for use outside the national territory of France.

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Seriously Cinio how about you start checking stuff before posting. Your advice is nearly always wrong.

I have to say that I think that is very unfair on CiniO; whilst he can often take things over literally and, I think he is wrong in suggesting that the OP misrepresent the position to NDLS by stating that it is stolen, I think he is well founded in asserting that France's ban does not extend to a ban in Ireland or indeed any other country which allows an Irish license holder to drive.

GM228

CiniO wrote: »

Did French authorities took your licence document?
If so - IMO they did it unlawfully.

I'm not sure if that's the best advice, and if I were you I would consult solicitor in Ireland to make sure it's legal, but I would just report my licence as stolen to NDLA in Ireland and apply for replacement.

You were banned in France and only in France, so French authorities had no right to take your Irish licence off you IMO.

They had every right under French Law.

There's also this provision as per EU Directive 2006/126/EU in relation to the recognition, exchange and withdrawal of other EU member states driving licenses.

Subject to observance of the principle of territoriality of criminal and police laws, the Member State of normal residence may apply its national provisions on the restriction, suspension, withdrawal or cancellation of the right to drive to the holder of a driving licence issued by another Member State and, if necessary, exchange the licence for that purpose.

Marcusm wrote: »

I suspect that France has overreached its powers by withholding the physical license and should, if requested by the OP, return it to him for use outside the national territory of France.

The same laws apply here under the Road Traffic (Licensing of Drivers) Regulations 2006.

The law allows for any Irish or foreign driving licence to be handed up to the court. Any licences which are handed up under a disqualification order are returned to the relevant issuing authority, they are not returned directly back to the driver.

I believe most countries operate this way AFAIK.

budgie35

Another problem, the authorities in France want me to change to a French licence and return my Irish licence to authorities in Ireland. Can they make me change or could I say I return to Ireland and wait to get my Irish one back after 4 months? Need advise on this thanks

shrapnel222

budgie35 wrote: »

Another problem, the authorities in France want me to change to a French licence and return my Irish licence to authorities in Ireland. Can they make me change or could I say I return to Ireland and wait to get my Irish one back after 4 months? Need advise on this thanks

As long as your Irish licence is valid, then you can drive with it in France, however as soon as you get points, a disqualification or a suspension, you are obliged to exchange it.

Falcon L

shrapnel222 wrote: »

budgie35 wrote: »

Another problem, the authorities in France want me to change to a French licence and return my Irish licence to authorities in Ireland. Can they make me change or could I say I return to Ireland and wait to get my Irish one back after 4 months? Need advise on this thanks

As long as your Irish licence is valid, then you can drive with it in France, however as soon as you get points, a disqualification or a suspension, you are obliged to exchange it.

Most European countries want you to exchange to their national licence if you reside in their country. Rules for residency are pretty standard throughout Europe (183 day rule). Spain is pretty hot on this as there are a lot of British residents who don't change their licences, or registration for that matter. Recent years have seen a clampdown.

1hnr79jr65

This thread is all the proof Ian Bailey needs to stop him being extradited to France where they treat the Irish unfairly

Del2005

Falcon L wrote: »

Most European countries want you to exchange to their national licence if you reside in their country. Rules for residency are pretty standard throughout Europe (183 day rule). Spain is pretty hot on this as there are a lot of British residents who don't change their licences, or registration for that matter. Recent years have seen a clampdown.

They might want you to exchange your licence but under EU law you don't have to until it expires, plenty of people with good till 70/dead licences still driving around Europe.

Vehicle registration is a different matter

fullstop

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Seriously Cinio how about you start checking stuff before posting. Your advice is nearly always wrong.

Ah sure he's a French Law expert is he not?

And Cinio doesn't worry too much about legalities when it comes to driving anyway.

shrapnel222

Del2005 wrote: »

They might want you to exchange your licence but under EU law you don't have to until it expires, plenty of people with good till 70/dead licences still driving around Europe.

Vehicle registration is a different matter

you are obliged to exchange it once you do something and get points/suspension/disqualification