Can we get a better "Declare car off-road" system by any chance?

amacca

Dorothy Shallow Rust wrote: »

The only ones who have to justify it are the dept of transport. Have you asked them?

Yes...after having to pay a full years tax on a motorbike I was doing a restoration project on...I eventually got through to a guy up in dublin castle supposedly in a position to do something about it who stonewalled in that irritatingly smug way only a guy who knows there is nothing you can do if he does nothing....I could have written letters/sent emails etc but really whats the point the machine grinds on right or wrong

thats part of my point....why shouldn't the system be set up fairly....what would be so wrong with allowing indefinite off road declaration?

the only two reasons I can come up with are :

1) its designed with the intention of generating extra revenue or keeping jobs alive through exploiting human error

2) its a poorly thought out unnecessarily clunky system that won't change until someone or some group with enough influence makes it happen

Sh1tbag OToole

CiniO wrote: »

We are arguing here what way should the off-road declaration system work, and at the same time, in other countries there are system without possibility to declare vehicle off the road at all.
F.e. Poland - you can't declare your vehicle off the road (unless it's HGV or BUS).

Maybe they should start something like that in Poland? What do they do with 'barn finds' there, impossible to use unless you pay 40 years of tax?

bear1

There is no tax as such, its included in the fuel.
But the car must always be insured and if it isn't then expect a fine to be sent to you.

amacca

CiniO wrote: »

We are arguing here what way should the off-road declaration system work, and at the same time, in other countries there are system without possibility to declare vehicle off the road at all.
F.e. Poland - you can't declare your vehicle off the road (unless it's HGV or BUS).

I can think of lots of countries where terrible things happen that are ok according to the law of the land or accepted local custom, does that mean we shouldn't want a fair system here?....I mean by that logic why should any progress occur at all.

Also I can think of countries where you can declare your vehicle off road indefinitely so why can't we do it here?

CiniO

amacca wrote: »

I can think of lots of countries where terrible things happen that are ok according to the law of the land or accepted local custom, does that mean we shouldn't want a fair system here?....I mean by that logic why should any progress occur at all.

Also I can think of countries where you can declare your vehicle off road indefinitely so why can't we do it here?

Well, I was taking the p1ss a bit, as while indeed in Poland there is no system for off-road declaration, but there is also no motortax, so hardly any problem with that anyway.

But indeed problem is with insurance, which must be on a car at all times, so system for declaring off the road for insurance purposes should be handy.
Otherwise, people have to pay insurance premium also on cars they don't use.

allthedoyles

Me thinks its a crazy system too . You have to predict the future by advising if you car is going to be off the road , and if the car has one month tax arrears to pay , then you have no choice but pay 3 months tax .

As it is not possible to pay one month tax .

Actually it is not even one month tax because if your tax is out of date by 1 day you have to tax it for 3 months before you can declare it off the road .

amacca

Well I suppose a least with insurance you are paying for something that can be useful when your off the road. Although thats still an unfair way of doing things presumably if the vehicle gets stolen you can claim for compensation.....

unlike being forced into paying a full years road tax on a vehicle that won't actually be on the road..... just because you forgot to renew its off road declaration....on an annual basis ffs

CiniO

amacca wrote: »

Well I suppose a least with insurance you are paying for something that can be useful when your off the road. Although thats still an unfair way of doing things presumably if the vehicle gets stolen you can claim for compensation.....

Only third party is obligatory, so no one would really buy fully comprehensive policy for off road car. So no theft cover included.

amacca

CiniO wrote: »

Only third party is obligatory, so no one would really buy fully comprehensive policy for off road car. So no theft cover included.

Then in my humble opinion sir it is probably just as much of a pile of steaming dog**** of a system as the one in this country that I have been moaning about for quite some time now

and bearing that in mind its time for amaccas bedtime, g'night to you all.

jca

allthedoyles wrote: »

Me thinks its a crazy system too . You have to predict the future by advising if you car is going to be off the road , and if the car has one month tax arrears to pay , then you have no choice but pay 3 months tax .

As it is not possible to pay one month tax .

Actually it is not even one month tax because if your tax is out of date by 1 day you have to tax it for 3 months before you can declare it off the road .

How is it crazy? The tax is out on my everyday car in September. I'll get an email renewal in early September if I decide I'm not going to tax it I just declare that from the 1st of October it'll be off the road. It's very simple.

allthedoyles

jca wrote: »

How is it crazy? The tax is out on my everyday car in September. I'll get an email renewal in early September if I decide I'm not going to tax it I just declare that from the 1st of October it'll be off the road. It's very simple.

its not simple and you will only realise this when you in a situation .

Ideally we all tax our cars before end of month , but if you decide to tax it in 1st week of October and your car breaks down ( or any other numerous reasons ) on 2nd Oct before you tax it .

Now you gonna have to tax it for 3 months before you can declare it off-road .

CiniO

IMO all declarations should be scrapped.
People should be able to tax their car whenever they wish and for how long they wish.

F.e. if I want to tax my car for 6 months in January let tax expire by the end of June, then be without tax for July, August, and tax it again from September, there should be no problem with that and no declarations needed whatsoever.

It would work same as now, but save lots of hassle/paperwork/public money.

jca

CiniO wrote: »

IMO all declarations should be scrapped.
People should be able to tax their car whenever they wish and for how long they wish.

F.e. if I want to tax my car for 6 months in January let tax expire by the end of June, then be without tax for July, August, and tax it again from September, there should be no problem with that and no declarations needed whatsoever.

It would work same as now, but save lots of hassle/paperwork/public money.

That's the way it used to be but as usual in Ireland people were abusing the system and driving around untaxed, going to the cop shop telling lies that the car was off the road etc etc.

jca

allthedoyles wrote: »

its not simple and you will only realise this when you in a situation .

Ideally we all tax our cars before end of month , but if you decide to tax it in 1st week of October and your car breaks down ( or any other numerous reasons ) on 2nd Oct before you tax it .

Now you gonna have to tax it for 3 months before you can declare it off-road .

Suck it up buttercup, the joys of a continuous based tax system I'm afraid!! If people hadn't being abusing the old setup..... you know the rest...

amacca

jca wrote: »

Suck it up buttercup, the joys of a continuous based tax system I'm afraid!! If people hadn't being abusing the old setup..... you know the rest...

You still have neglected to answer the question I asked earlier

what is wrong with being allowed to declare off road indefinitely?

savagethegoat

there's nothing wrong with it, it's just a half thought-out system applied by people who had little grasp of what they were doing. The 3/6/12 month scenario confirms that

Greenmachine

Dorothy Shallow Rust wrote: »

If you want to use a car legally that's declared off road, you need to tax it.
Taxing overrides the SORD and cancels it. A new declaration is then needed.

What new declaration is needed?

goz83

jca wrote: »

Suck it up buttercup, the joys of a continuous based tax system I'm afraid!! If people hadn't being abusing the old setup..... you know the rest...

Ah, now I see. So, let's make the system a pain in the hole for everyone who wants to declare their car off the road for an unknown period of time, because some people abused the system before. Correct? That seems to be what you are saying. However, those same people are now just using the change of ownership and don't even need to bother visiting a copshop anymore. Nobody wins and we all get shafted. I declared a vehicle off the road over a year ago. The reminder never arrived in the post, so I would have been liable for tax had I not sold the car to a lad....who happened to live up North....and lets not get into the joke of a system for selling a car to someone out of the state. That's a separate thread on our pitiful system.

Greenmachine wrote: »

What new declaration is needed?

When the car is taxed, a new declaration is then needed if taking it off the road again.

Greenmachine

goz83 wrote: »

Ah, now I see. So, let's make the system a pain in the hole for everyone who wants to declare their car off the road for an unknown period of time, because some people abused the system before. Correct? That seems to be what you are saying. However, those same people are now just using the change of ownership and don't even need to bother visiting a copshop anymore. Nobody wins and we all get shafted. I declared a vehicle off the road over a year ago. The reminder never arrived in the post, so I would have been liable for tax had I not sold the car to a lad....who happened to live up North....and lets not get into the joke of a system for selling a car to someone out of the state. That's a separate thread on our pitiful system.



When the car is taxed, a new declaration is then needed if taking it off the road again.

so declare car off the road for up to a year. Pay a minimum of 3 months tax, for the privilege of declaring my still off the road car off the road. Is that how this current system works.

savagethegoat

you can declare it off the road for a further period before the current SORD expires. You don't need to tax it at the end if the SORD period if you don't want to.

jca

amacca wrote: »

You still have neglected to answer the question I asked earlier

what is wrong with being allowed to declare off road indefinitely?

Nothing, it just isn't available with the present setup. The best you can do is pick the 12 month option.

amacca

Well then the present system is a big steaming pile of faeces afaic