Neighbour Not Paying Management Fees

Paulw

Lantus wrote: »

Letters to revenue and prtb may help but are a long shot.

Letters to the Revenue or RTB won't get the management company any money. It will only impact on the unit owner and the Revenue or RTB.

No point in wasting company time with those routes. Just go the direct legal route, if needed. It takes a little time, but does work.

Antar Bolaeisk

starshine1234 wrote: »

I've tried to download lists from them as well and it was very difficult.

I can't remember exactly what the problem was but I was able to get the list in the end. I downloaded an .xls list.

Keep trying for the list. The system is very bad but it does work in the end. Finding a person or an address on the list can be very hard as there is no consistency, addresses are all over the place, and people can use the Irish language etc for their addresses.

It really is a terrible system.

I can find the list but every time I try to download the file it makes me log in, once I'm logged in I can't get back to the list without getting logged out again at which point the cycle repeats.

psinno wrote: »

Shortly after I moved into my current apartment the management company disabled all the key fobs and issued new ones to the owners who were fully paid up.

We recently did the whole changing of the locks routine (no fancy key fobs around here ) which is a relatively awkward exercise to be doing on a regular basis. I'm fairly certain this person didn't get a key at the time so I'm not sure how they're getting in and out.

c montgomery wrote: »

Back on topic for OP

I'm a director of a management company and we have had thus issue many times in the past.

We have a payback system in place. Pay before March 1st or arrange payment plan get 10% credit the following year. After this date a 1%levy is added per month to non paying owners until they pay.
This results in most paying before march 1st.

We had one who didn't pay for 4 years but then needed the management companies help on an issue so paid.
Another did not pay for 9 years, property was rented all the time. Property was sold last year and we recovered all the money plus levy.

In all cases we sent multiple solicitors letters but I'm sure they didn't care.
It's only when they need your help or the property is being sold that you'll get your money.

You should not have to pay for Windows in a private apartment, only shared spaces.

We do something similar, once the fees for the year are agreed upon at the AGM there's a timetable laid out for payment. If we pay within a certain time there's a E100 discount.

Lantus wrote: »

Antar,

I would be concerned that anyone other than the directors and agent has knowledge of non payers. That's a breach of data protection and the directors could face action against them on this matter.

The omc should not of made any repair on that unit where it didn't affect another unit VB if fees were unpaid. Windows as per the lease are nearly always the unit owners responsibility unless it was common area sections. Spending company money on private individuals property is at best negligent and at worst fraud and mis appropriation of company money.

The directors need to toughen up and apply the lease in any way possible to restrict services. Letters to revenue and prtb may help but are a long shot.

Removing access to a common entrance by changing locks is far more effective.

It's our own management company of which we're all members. Damage was in the common area.

Lantus

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

We recently did the whole changing of the locks routine (no fancy key fobs around here ) which is a relatively awkward exercise to be doing on a regular basis. I'm fairly certain this person didn't get a key at the time so I'm not sure how they're getting in and out.


It's our own management company of which we're all members. Damage was in the common area.

Not sure what you mean by your own omc? Is it a Ltd company by guarantee with the company in every contract lease at the point if sale? Or not? Occasionally the articles do allow payment schedules to be divulged. Generally it's a no no.

I would investigate the lock. In a large block they
May either be getting help from another tenant or their agent.

The way around this is keys that cannot be cut except by the original locksmith. We have issued these and had estate agents down to get copies cut within the hour. The locksmith rang to let me know. Really pissed them off as a lot of the landlord's were not paying fees. I would look at additional security as well beyond keys. Expensive but long term the only real solution.

Kings Inns or bust

OP, IF you can manage it it's a waiting game. Keep charging the management fee, keep adding the interest and keep billing for any damage you can prove, on the balance of probabilities, was the result of the occupants of the apartment in question. Anything that's witnessed or recorded on CCTV, make sure you are involving the guards.

Eventually the person will come to sell and that's when you can recoup your losses as they can't complete the sale without going through the OMC, assuming your company constitution and leases are properly drafted, of course. Doing anything else, locks, clamping etc. etc. is just a hassle for you.

I do stress that's if you're OMC can facilitate that. I do feel for people in smaller complexes. Then your only option is the legal route which is probably going to be ineffective once it comes to enforcement.

Kings Inns or bust

Sorry I can't edit posts for some reason. I just wished to express some doubts over the legalities of changing locks etc. even in common areas. I suspect if tested it would be quite expensive for the OMC.

Lantus

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Sorry I can't edit posts for some reason. I just wished to express some doubts over the legalities of changing locks etc. even in common areas. I suspect if tested it would be quite expensive for the OMC.

It's a fairly standard approach for a lot of omcs. They own the common areas and owners have right of access as per the main contract lease. The lease will typically state subject to all fees being paid however.

Marcusm

Lantus wrote: »

It's a fairly standard approach for a lot of omcs. They own the common areas and owners have right of access as per the main contract lease. The lease will typically state subject to all fees being paid however.

Standard but probably not lawful. The right of way is required to achieve the quiet enjoyment covenant of the lease which is absolute unless the lease is forfeit. A number of people have suggested that the covenants are interdependent but have not tabled any relevant clauses. I'd love to see them if they exist. (And no, I am not condoning any non payers or late payers.)

Lantus

Marcusm wrote: »

Standard but probably not lawful. The right of way is required to achieve the quiet enjoyment covenant of the lease which is absolute unless the lease is forfeit. A number of people have suggested that the covenants are interdependent but have not tabled any relevant clauses. I'd love to see them if they exist. (And no, I am not condoning any non payers or late payers.)

I guess it will take a court case to decide. Omcs need better powers of enforcement though. The existing legal system of debt collection is too lengthy and costly. Companies are failing or being taken to the brink of failure through non payers. Developments are bevoming run down and often have faults from day 1.

The mud act is toothless and almost impossible to enforce.

Kings Inns or bust

Lantus wrote: »

I guess it will take a court case to decide. Omcs need better powers of enforcement though. The existing legal system of debt collection is too lengthy and costly. Companies are failing or being taken to the brink of failure through non payers. Developments are bevoming run down and often have faults from day 1.

The mud act is toothless and almost impossible to enforce.

They do and they don't really. As I say there is an issue in regard to smaller complexes but ultimately self-interest takes over at some point. Enforcement is a tricky one, how do you get blood out of a stone?

Ultimately OMC's have the perfect judgement mortgage on apartments without ever having set foot in court or accruing legal fees.

Lantus

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

They do and they don't really. As I say there is an issue in regard to smaller complexes but ultimately self-interest takes over at some point. Enforcement is a tricky one, how do you get blood out of a stone?

Ultimately OMC's have the perfect judgement mortgage on apartments without ever having set foot in court or accruing legal fees.

What do you mean by perfect judgement mortgage?

Kings Inns or bust

Lantus wrote: »

What do you mean by perfect judgement mortgage?

A way of recovering debt is to place a mortgage over someone's property. One might not have the means to pay €15K in back management fees but there is an asset there which can be encumbered. The OMC generally have the power to require arrears in management fees are paid before any sale closing so the net effect is the same.

Lantus

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

A way of recovering debt is to place a mortgage over someone's property. One might not have the means to pay €15K in back management fees but there is an asset there which can be encumbered. The OMC generally have the power to require arrears in management fees are paid before any sale closing so the net effect is the same.

Is this not generally sought after normal debt recovery? I don't think you can jump straight to a judgement mortgage in terms of legal process. So several expensive trips to court to get this.

Also, it's not an ideal solution. It lasts 10 years before you need to renew it. Insurance and critical maintenance is required annually.

Edit: waiting for a property sale with no legal judgement typically only nets you the last 6 years of fees. That's the statute of limitations.

Kings Inns or bust

Lantus wrote: »

Is this not generally sought after normal debt recovery? I don't think you can jump straight to a judgement mortgage in terms of legal process. So several expensive trips to court to get this.

Also, it's not an ideal solution. It lasts 10 years before you need to renew it. Insurance and critical maintenance is required annually.

Edit: waiting for a property sale with no legal judgement typically only nets you the last 6 years of fees. That's the statute of limitations.

You're kinda making my point for me there.

There is no real alternative for OMCs. If it comes to it they'd have to start eviction proceedings. By that point though there's very little chance there will be a functioning OMC and therefore the properties become almost unmarketable.

Edit: You're referring, I believe, to S11 of the SoL - I don't believe management fees fall under that section.