The biased Media vs Trump!

KingBrian2

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

You haven't addressed the practical issues of trying to build a wall. You're just talking about forces.

The argument being put is that it is outrageous. Clearly that is not true. Steps could easily be made to construct a border wall. Texas & California being ideal locations. The amount of devotion the US army is used to combat other threats could be redirected to set up line of fencing covering the state Texas from the Gulf of Mexico to the Rio Grande.

Their appears to be a lot leakage in terms of human trafficking from America to Mexico of a violent nature. Two military forces on either side of the border could halt the flow of weapons, drugs & crime to America. The entire region is so porous at this point it hinders the growth of good relations between the two sides.

KingBrian2

InTheTrees wrote: »

Riiiight. Sure. I understand now. It all sounds very practical...

So we wouldn't need a border on the bits that are impassable for entry huh?

Checkpoints on a number of routes sounds like a great idea. How convienient for the citizens. I can see you have this well thought out.

If you had passports you would be fine.

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

If you had passports you would be fine.

Right. There you go.

So your idea would be to have check points at certain openings in the wall where citizens with passports could pass back and forth?

It's quite the plan isn't it?

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

If you had passports you would be fine.

Interesting, so any person presenting at the border checkpoint will be allowed entry to either country?

KingBrian2

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Interesting, so any person presenting at the border checkpoint will be allowed entry to either country?

Once they have the right papers. It is a situation that applies in say Korea with the DMZ. Egypt & Israel have similar arrangements.

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Once they have the right papers. It is a situation that applies in say Korea with the DMZ. Egypt & Israel have similar arrangements.

So it would be like in Korea?

Citizens would have to get these "passports" and then they'd just go back and forth whenever?

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Once they have the right papers. It is a situation that applies in say Korea with the DMZ. Egypt & Israel have similar arrangements.

How much of illegal immigration into USA involves people without necessary papers i.e. Passport and either Visa or ESTA? Of the 11,000,000 illegals currently estimated in USA how many entered with no valid papers.

CMOTDibbler

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The argument being put is that it is outrageous. Clearly that is not true. Steps could easily be made to construct a border wall. Texas & California being ideal locations. The amount of devotion the US army is used to combat other threats could be redirected to set up line of fencing covering the state Texas from the Gulf of Mexico to the Rio Grande.

Their appears to be a lot leakage in terms of human trafficking from America to Mexico of a violent nature. Two military forces on either side of the border could halt the flow of weapons, drugs & crime to America. The entire region is so porous at this point it hinders the growth of good relations between the two sides.

I think you should actually read what Trump is proposing because you certainly don't seem to have the first clue.

I don't really blame you tbh, Trump isn't that sure about it either. He's so unsure of it, all he'll commit to on his own website is getting Mexico to pay for it.

Pro Hoc Vice

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I think you should actually read what Trump is proposing because you certainly don't seem to have the first clue.

I don't really blame you tbh, Trump isn't that sure about it either. He's so unsure of it, all he'll commit to on his own website is getting Mexico to pay for it.

That is what trump does. Comes up with an idea then is so vague those who follow fill in the blanks themselves. Get 100 trump supporters in a room a number will say the wall is a metaphor others will say it is built one way and will solve all illegal immigration others will say it will be built a totally different way but all 100 will think it's a great idea that will cost they have no idea to solve a problem they have no idea of the size.

KingBrian2

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I think you should actually read what Trump is proposing because you certainly don't seem to have the first clue.

I don't really blame you tbh, Trump isn't that sure about it either. He's so unsure of it, all he'll commit to on his own website is getting Mexico to pay for it.

Everyone realizes the situation cannot remain as is. You seem to believe allowing 11 million Mexicans freely arrive into the US causes no issues in society.

CMOTDibbler

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Everyone realizes the situation cannot remain as is. You seem to believe allowing 11 million Mexicans freely arrive into the US causes no issues in society.

Eleven million Mexicans? I really think you should check that figure.

I really, really do.

KingBrian2

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Eleven million Mexicans? I really think you should check that figure.

I really, really do.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Everyone realizes the situation cannot remain as is. You seem to believe allowing 11 million Mexicans freely arrive into the US causes no issues in society.

What 11 million Mexicans when will they arrive?

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

Do you read what you post or just grab a Google search result and not actually look at what the result says. If you did you would see in your own link 11 million illegals of which 5.8 million are Mexican (funny down 1.1 million in last few years) and about 5 million of the 11 million entered with all the documents you talked about.

KingBrian2

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Do you read what you post or just grab a Google search result and not actually look at what the result says. If you did you would see in your own link 11 million illegals of which 5.8 million are Mexican (funny down 1.1 million in last few years) and about 5 million of the 11 million entered with all the documents you talked about.

It remains the case that massive illegal immigration in the millions is occurring in large parts of America. Did you not read the comment section? Many Americans are uncomfortable with this level of migration. This is how fascism starts and intercommunal conflict emerges when the people are shunned.

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Did you not read the comment section? Many Americans are uncomfortable with this level of migration. This is how fascism starts and intercommunal conflict emerges when the people are shunned.

The article you posted a link to said the numbers are falling.

They peaked in 2007 and have been falling ever since.

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It remains the case that massive illegal immigration in the millions is occurring in large parts of America. Did you not read the comment section? Many Americans are uncomfortable with this level of migration. This is how fascism starts and intercommunal conflict emerges when the people are shunned.

Will you please stop putting words in my mouth. You like many on this forum make claims and when called out just deflect. You said 11,000,000 Mexicans when you by your own research shown you to be very challenged with the truth you change the narrative. 10 years ago 6.9 million illegal Mexicans in US today according to your own figures 5.8 million. According to your own info 40% of the 11 million illegals (many of them Irish) arrive with necessary passports, Visa or ESTA.

In Obamas presidency he has deported 2.8 million illegals. So yes I guess he agrees with the contributors that illegal immigration is a problem that he takes more seriously than Trump who wants to spend billions building a wall to elimate a problem that is reducing anyway.

Do you with draw your claim that there are 11,000,000 illegal Mexicans in the USA.

KingBrian2

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Will you please stop putting words in my mouth. You like many on this forum make claims and when called out just deflect. You said 11,000,000 Mexicans when you by your own research shown you to be very challenged with the truth you change the narrative. 10 years ago 6.9 million illegal Mexicans in US today according to your own figures 5.8 million. According to your own info 40% of the 11 million illegals (many of them Irish) arrive with necessary passports, Visa or ESTA.

In Obamas presidency he has deported 2.8 million illegals. So yes I guess he agrees with the contributors that illegal immigration is a problem that he takes more seriously than Trump who wants to spend billions building a wall to elimate a problem that is reducing anyway.

Do you with draw your claim that there are 11,000,000 illegal Mexicans in the USA.

According to the research gathered and to the attitudes of communities near the border the number of illegals in America is not understated. Population centres in New Mexico & Arizona will experience much higher numbers of illegal Mexicans than New York or Ohio. The figures could be slightly higher or slighter lower but let their be no mistake, massive inflows of immigrants are crossing the border causing strains for police forces and the locals. The present situation cannot remain as is.

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

According to the research gathered and to the attitudes of communities near the border the number of illegals in America is not understated. Population centres in New Mexico & Arizona will experience much higher numbers of illegal Mexicans than New York or Ohio. The figures could be slightly higher or slighter lower but let their be no mistake. Massive inflows of immigrants are crossing the border causing strains are police forces and the local. The present situation cannot remain as is.

Do you accept 1 2.8 million deported in past 8 years and 2 1.1 million less Mexicans illegally in the USA. Simple questions. You make the claim of massive but don't provide and proof. Your only proof you supplied makes you out to either be a spoofer or unable to read your own research.

BTW according to research of attitudes Americans think they live in a society with more crime than the 70's yet fact is crime is now at 1970 levels after falling year on year since 1992. If not difficult for Americans to believe there is more crime if Donald Trump is telling them lies.

CMOTDibbler

KingBrian2 wrote: »

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/19/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

So you're wrong. As I said. Thanks for the link, but I already knew what the facts were. Which is why I called you on it.

So back to the wall, which you still have to explain how it gets built when there are rivers and other geographical features that make it impossible to build.

And how it will stop immigration from countries other than Mexico.

KingBrian2

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Do you accept 1 2.8 million deported in past 8 years and 2 1.1 million less Mexicans illegally in the USA. Simple questions. You make the claim of massive but don't provide and proof. Your only proof you supplied makes you out to either be a spoofer or unable to read your own research.

BTW according to research of attitudes Americans think they live in a society with more crime than the 70's yet fact is crime is now at 1970 levels after falling year on year since 1992. If not difficult for Americans to believe there is more crime if Donald Trump is telling them lies.

Continuing to deport Mexicans like what President Obama and President Bush did is not going to solve the crisis. The number will return to 11 million. Mexico is a horrible mess to live in. The Mexicans only want to escape and head back up.

Entire districts of Mexicans are waiting to head into America. Many are themselves migrants from other Latin American states all looking to north of the border. Trump has correctly identified the construction of a border wall as a way of removing the threat of illegal immigration.

The Mexican authorities will finally have to get serious about corruption and gvt abuse. If one looks at the Mexican side of the border the conditions for the locals are horrible now by comparison quite recently a new very controversial law was passed in Arizona which by some amounted to racial profiling.

We will see more States embracing laws like this to keep the numbers of illegal immigrants down and this is no permanent solution. Only by maintaining a strong border will the need for the deportations and intercommunal discord end.

Calina

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Continuing to deport Mexicans like what President Obama and President Bush did is not going to solve the crisis. The number will return to 11 million. Mexico is a horrible mess to live in. The Mexicans only want to escape and head back up.

Entire districts of Mexicans are waiting to head into America. Many are themselves migrants from other Latin American states all looking to north of the border. Trump has correctly identified the construction of a border wall as a way of removing the threat of illegal immigration.

The Mexican authorities will finally have to get serious about corruption and gvt abuse. If one looks at the Mexican side of the border the conditions for the locals are horrible now by comparison quite recently a new very controversial law was passed in Arizona which by some amounted to racial profiling.

We will see more States embracing laws like this to keep the numbers of illegal immigrants down and this is no permanent solution. Only by maintaining a strong border will the need for the deportations and intercommunal discord end.

Dude, you can build all the walls you like but frankly, if things are as awful in Mexico as you paint, it won't stop anyone. Ask anyone in Europe. People are risking drowning to get across the Mediterranean here to get away from Syria. A wall will not block a truly determined person and not only that, the bulk of your illegal residents arrived legally via the airports.

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Do you accept 1 2.8 million deported in past 8 years and 2 1.1 million less Mexicans illegally in the USA. Simple questions. You make the claim of massive but don't provide and proof. Your only proof you supplied makes you out to either be a spoofer or unable to read your own research.

BTW according to research of attitudes Americans think they live in a society with more crime than the 70's yet fact is crime is now at 1970 levels after falling year on year since 1992. If not difficult for Americans to believe there is more crime if Donald Trump is telling them lies.

Continuing to deport Mexicans like what President Obama and President Bush did is not going to solve the crisis. The number will return to 11 million. Mexico is a horrible mess to live in. The Mexicans only want to escape and head back up.

Entire districts of Mexicans are waiting to head into America. Many are themselves migrants from other Latin American states all looking to north of the border. Trump has correctly identified the construction of a border wall as a way of removing the threat of illegal immigration.

The Mexican authorities will finally have to get serious about corruption and gvt abuse. If one looks at the Mexican side of the border the conditions for the locals are horrible now by comparison quite recently a new very controversial law was passed in Arizona which by some amounted to racial profiling.

We will see more States embracing laws like this to keep the numbers of illegal immigrants down and this is no permanent solution. Only by maintaining a strong border will the need for the deportations and intercommunal discord end.

When was there 11million illegal Mexicans?

KingBrian2

Calina wrote: »

Dude, you can build all the walls you like but frankly, if things are as awful in Mexico as you paint, it won't stop anyone. Ask anyone in Europe. People are risking drowning to get across the Mediterranean here to get away from Syria. A wall will not block a truly determined person and not only that, the bulk of your illegal residents arrived legally via the airports.

Well you are factually incorrect on that. Another thread on that very topic pointed out that most of the refugees are not even from Syria. So we keep throwing around numbers and who these people really are. Getting away from the fact that millions of illegals are entering America each year.

Look at this like this take Denmark population est 5 million. Take Israel est population 5 that transplant all those people to America. That is an enormous amount of people in a country. They speak their own language, own laws and own behaviors. You can't keep bringing in huge number of illegals in without problems.

So some of the people on here might speak about how racist Trump might sound and how my figures are inexact yet for the people on the ground they do see massive numbers of illegals not coming in through correct channels.

KingBrian2

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

When was there 11million illegal Mexicans?

In 2014 11 million undocumented migrants were recorded in the country. 56% were mostly Mexicans and when taken with other Latin Americans the significant numbers came from South America.

Calina

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Well you are factually incorrect on that. Another thread on that very topic pointed out that most of the refugees are not even from Syria. So we keep throwing around numbers and who these people really are. Getting away from the fact that millions of illegals are entering America each year.

Look at this like this take Denmark population est 5 million. Take Israel est population 5 that transplant all those people to America. That is an enormous amount of people in a country. They speak their own language, own laws and own behaviors. You can't keep bringing in huge number of illegals.

So some of the people on here might speak about how racist Trump might sound and how my figures are inexact yet for the people on the ground they do see massive number of illegals not coming in through correct channels.

Whether you like it or not, there are people risking their lives to cross the Mediterranean in boats. By May this year the UN estimated than more than 2500 people drowned this year alone trying to cross the Med. Now you can argue the toss on where they came from although a lot of them do come from Syria. The point is if a crossing across the Med is not stopping people, no wall you build on the Mexican border will stop people either. Nothing you say about where people come from will address that fact.

Now for the rest of your post.

The population of the US is ca 320 million people. Were the Danes stupid enough to decamp to America, America would absorb them fine. The US was founded on people decamping to America. The fact remains that in the past, there have been large numbers of people speaking several different languages. For many years, English wasn't even the most widely spoken language and in parts of the northeast, German was.

The US could and has absorbed many people. It would not exist as a nation if it did not. However, one of the key issues I have is that Trump's mother was born in Scotland and his father was of immigrant stock too. He's not just racist. He's a hypocritical twerp.

Calina

KingBrian2 wrote: »

In 2014 11 million undocumented migrants were recorded in the country. 56% were mostly Mexicans and when taken with other Latin Americans the significant numbers came from South America.

56% of 11 million is not 11 million. At most it's about 6 million. IF you want to argue the toss on your figures, stop claiming 11 million Mexicans when you know it's not 11 million Mexicans.

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

So we keep throwing around numbers and who these people really are. Getting away from the fact that millions of illegals are entering America each year.

You yourself posted a link saying the numbers are decreasing.

If thats the case why is a wall needed?

KingBrian2

Calina wrote: »

Whether you like it or not, there are people risking their lives to cross the Mediterranean in boats. By May this year the UN estimated than more than 2500 people drowned. Now you can argue the toss on where they came from although a lot of them do come from Syria. The point is if a crossing across the Med is not stopping people, no wall you build on the Mexican border will stop people either. Nothing you say about where people come from will address that fact.

Now for the rest of your post.

The population of the US is ca 320 million people. Were the Danes stupid enough to decamp to America, America would absorb them fine. The US was founded on people decamping to America. The fact remains that in the past, there have been large numbers of people speaking several different languages. For many years, English wasn't even the most widely spoken language and in parts of the northeast, German was.

The US could and has absorbed many people. It would not exist as a nation if it did not. However, one of the key issues I have is that Trump's parents were immigrants. He's not just racist. He's a hypocritical twerp.

Most Americans have immigrant backgrounds. That is not in dispute. Nor is this really about immigration. What it really is about is illegal immigration which is a crime. Illegals should not be treated the same as citizens of America.

As for the Mediterranean, Europe needs to police that region and ensure that the refugees can return to their countries once the war & conflicts are over and not to take in a large number of migrants that may pose a danger.

KingBrian2

InTheTrees wrote: »

You yourself posted a link saying the numbers are decreasing.

If thats the case why is a wall needed?

I also posted that deportations in of themselves won't work. You select what you want to hear and use it against me. You deny their is massive illegal immigration and are fine with the current policy of rounding up Mexicans and sending them back home. I'm saying both are bad polices that are linked and Trump's wall does act as a deterrence against illegal immigration.