The biased Media vs Trump!

alastair

FA Hayek wrote: »

The evidence that more college educated white males voted for Trump?
Again, it seems you have reached an emotional conclusion and vainly, poorly attempts to find 'evidence' to back this up.

No, the evidence of his clownish platform. Nothing emotional in a measured critical reading of that disaster. And even if you assume that the exit polls are right on that percentage, while being wrong on who won the election, that still leaves more college educated voters, male and female, casting their vote for Hillary.

FA Hayek

alastair wrote: »

No, the evidence of his clownish platform. Nothing emotional in a measured critical reading of that disaster. And even if you assume that the exit polls are right on that percentage, while being wrong on who won the election, that still leaves more college educated voters, male and female, casting their vote for Hillary.

More? Let me remind you that the exit polls predicted a comfortable Clinton victory. However, we all know what happened when the counting started. There fore it stands to reason that MORE, not less college educated voters voting for Trump if we take the result on face value.

Would love to hear your logic on this one. Not for the first time you are confusing your opinion with reality.

alastair

FA Hayek wrote: »

More? Let me remind you that the exit polls predicted a comfortable Clinton victory. However, we all know what happened when the counting started. There fore it stands to reason that MORE, not less college educated voters voting for Trump if we take the result on face value.

Would love to hear your logic on this one. Not for the first time you are confusing your opinion with reality.

Perhaps you should actually read the (Edison Research) exit polls you quote? College graduates in that very same poll voted Hillary by a 9 point margin. It's only the 'white' proviso that gives Trump the lead. But then, the same polls give the presidency to Hillary, so they're clearly not that accurate.

FA Hayek

alastair wrote: »

Perhaps you should actually read the (Edison Research) exit polls you quote? College graduates in that very same poll voted Hillary by a 9 point margin. It's only the 'white' proviso that gives Trump the lead. But then, the same polls give the presidency to Hillary, so they're clearly not that accurate.

Well at least you admit you are wrong. Clearly again, the exit poll predicted a Clinton win, yet we saw her lose. I would say even on the exit poll there are people who walked straight out of the voting booth and lied to the pollster about voting for Trump.

Christy42

FA Hayek wrote: »

Well at least you admit you are wrong. Clearly again, the exit poll predicted a Clinton win, yet we saw her lose. I would say even on the exit poll there are people who walked straight out of the voting booth and lied to the pollster about voting for Trump.

You can say what you like.

Polls tended to be off in areas with plenty of white voters without college degrees. Their voting patterns were under represented and misjudged by the polls.

The big thing people don't realise when there is a binary result (one or the other wins) is that the national polls were not off by much. She was predicted to win by 3-4 % and will win by 1-2%. They were worse when Obama beat Romney (but people didn't notice as they were off in a direction that helped the favourite).

I am curious about how many of the people who think they are that much better than the polls/aggregators would have been one of those shouting about "shy" Romney voters 4 years ago. I am curious to see how any of them would do long term vs the polls (well I have a good idea but it would be fun to see) It really looks like the polls underrepresented one segment of the population as opposed to Any "shy" voter effect. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/shy-voters-probably-arent-why-the-polls-missed-trump/

alastair

FA Hayek wrote: »

Well at least you admit you are wrong. Clearly again, the exit poll predicted a Clinton win, yet we saw her lose. I would say even on the exit poll there are people who walked straight out of the voting booth and lied to the pollster about voting for Trump.

I'm not admitting any such thing. If you buy into the accuracy of the exit polls that state Trump garnered a majority of white male college graduates (which you seemingly do) then you have to concede, on the basis of the same source, that Hillary won the vote of a majority of college graduates. You can't really cherry pick.

FA Hayek

alastair wrote: »

I'm not admitting any such thing. If you buy into the accuracy of the exit polls that state Trump garnered a majority of white male college graduates (which you seemingly do) then you have to concede, on the basis of the same source, that Hillary won the vote of a majority of college graduates. You can't really cherry pick.

I repeat, the exit polls underestimated the support Trump got. Therefore we can not take those exit polls at face value. If anything we could assume Trump won the majority of college graduates.

alastair

FA Hayek wrote: »

I repeat, the exit polls underestimated the support Trump got. Therefore we can not take those exit polls at face value. If anything we could assume Trump won the majority of college graduates.

If you can't take the exit poll at face value, then you've no idea where Trump's vote came from, so you'll have to forget this claim that a majority of white male graduate's votes went to Trump.

FA Hayek

I take the exit polls as flawed, as we all recognise now that they are not infallible.

FA Hayek

Sums it up.

alastair

FA Hayek wrote: »

I take the exit polls as flawed, as we all recognise now that they are not infallible.

Then don't pretend that the 'majority of white male graduate voters went with Trump' has any validity. Or, if you do, then equally the majority of college graduates voted Hillary. You don't get to cherry pick. Same source, same degree of credibility.

FA Hayek

alastair wrote: »

Then don't pretend that the 'majority of white male graduate voters went with Trump' has any validity. Or, if you do, then equally the majority of college graduates voted Hillary. You don't get to cherry pick. Same source, same degree of credibility.

Exit polls aside, the only poll that matters is the Electoral College, which Trump won. So, you can nit pick away at that if you want.

Going back to the topic at hand, it is clear as light is day that the media are complicit in this echo chamber effect. They should stop badgering people with their own opinions and just report the news as is, not engage in social crusades.

Case in point. Trump was actually the peace candidate here. Will he win a Nobel peace prize if he deescalated tensions with Russia?
This is something Liberal should be all over, yet because St. Hillary is not the person elected then Trump is all bad regardless. Again, shows us the hypocrisy of the left wing Mainstream Media.

alastair

FA Hayek wrote: »

Exit polls aside, the only poll that matters is the Electoral College, which Trump won. So, you can nit pick away at that if you want.

Eh no - it's you who referenced "the evidence that more college educated white males voted for Trump". If you now are conceding that the evidence in that regard is flawed, then we're done on this. Otherwise you'll have to resign yourself to the same poll that has college graduates voting for Hillary with a 9 point majority.

FA Hayek wrote: »

Going back to the topic at hand, it is clear as light is day that the media are complicit in this echo chamber effect. They should stop badgering people with their own opinions and just report the news as is, not engage in social crusades.

Case in point. Trump was actually the peace candidate here. Will he win a Nobel peace prize if he deescalated tensions with Russia?
This is something Liberal should be all over, yet because St. Hillary is not the person elected then Trump is all bad regardless. Again, shows us the hypocrisy of the left wing Mainstream Media.

Trump - the peace candidate that advocated for torture, the murder of families, of 'bombing the **** out of them', and 'taking their oil'? Best of luck with that pitch to the Nobel Institute. :rolleyes:

InTheTrees

FA Hayek wrote: »

Will he win a Nobel peace prize if he deescalated tensions with Russia?

I dont quite see how rolling over and caving in to the russians would earn anybody a nobel prize?

Permabear

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alastair

Permabear wrote: »

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Hmm.

1. Where did you read in the 'liberal media' that all white Trump voters are racist and stupid? Walks and talks like a straw man argument.

2. I note that you forgot to mention that Hillary nailed the Asian-American vote - the most highly educated group in the electorate.

3. Hillary had a clear majority in college graduates.

4. Objectively, the policy platforms can be judged on their credibility. Regardless of the party/candidate/ideology it's still entirely reasonable to state that buying into one of the platforms, over the other, is an act as dumb as a bag of rocks. Those who voted for Trump on the basis of his platform, as opposed to his party's ideology, or a greater dislike for the other candidate, are indeed duped by snake oil. The issue here isn't the ethnicity of the voters, it's the stupidity of voting for the platform.

Christy42

Permabear wrote: »

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I haven't seen a comment from the liberal media on the intellegence of minorities personally. I would imagine that minorities voting Democrat is Turkeys not voting for Christmas as opposed to anything else.

Snickers Man

Tippfella2C wrote: »

Anybody want Trump to win, simply to beat the haters, the biased tv show hosts in America trying to ruin his campaign, the biased news stations all against him!

Fox news has trumps side, but not sure if any others do . Way too many people on the bandwagon.. Trump says a lot of things that are correct

On a serious point, is there ANY non-biased media in the US? At least as regards TV? TV anchors seem to stake their reputations on espousing a particular point of view. It's what their audiences expect.

The result is that America suffers from a cultural bipolar disorder. You can only be one or the other. Liberal or Conservative. Blue collar or Elite. Pro Gun (I can carry any firearm any where any time) or anti gun (take them all away no hunting no clay pigeon shooting no vermin control). Doesn't seem to make for any shade of grey at all.

Former president Bill Clinton was on the Daily Show before the election and said that America is increasingly siloed, thanks no doubt to media "echo chambers" where people only listen to what they want to hear.

In his day he said the country was split so that about 40 per cent each would always vote either Rep or Dem and the remaining 20 per cent was up for grabs at election time. Now, he said, the floating vote is down to 10 per cent.

Whatever you think about Clinton, I think he's right on this point. And I don't think it's healthy for America. Or the rest of us.

Mr Joe

Snickers Man wrote: »

On a serious point, is there ANY non-biased media in the US? At least as regards TV? TV anchors seem to stake their reputations on espousing a particular point of view. It's what their audiences expect.

The result is that America suffers from a cultural bipolar disorder. You can only be one or the other. Liberal or Conservative. Blue collar or Elite. Pro Gun (I can carry any firearm any where any time) or anti gun (take them all away no hunting no clay pigeon shooting no vermin control). Doesn't seem to make for any shade of grey at all.

Former president Bill Clinton was on the Daily Show before the election and said that America is increasingly siloed, thanks no doubt to media "echo chambers" where people only listen to what they want to hear.

In his day he said the country was split so that about 40 per cent each would always vote either Rep or Dem and the remaining 20 per cent was up for grabs at election time. Now, he said, the floating vote is down to 10 per cent.

Whatever you think about Clinton, I think he's right on this point. And I don't think it's healthy for America. Or the rest of us.

The Liberals fully took over the the mainstream media and just use it as a vehicle for propaganda. Hell they even do it on Comedy Central, all of those Daily Show type guys and Amy Schumer types, were just churning out not so subtle hatred at conservatives and Trump. These people were actually in tears when Hillary lost....:pac:

People don't trust the mainstream media anymore. I can't turn on RTE news or radio, without their extreme Liberal agenda being thrown in my face. They have zero balance, look at ther coverage of this election. I manage less than 2 minutes and turn off in disgust.

alastair

Mr Joe wrote: »

The Liberals fully took over the the mainstream media and just use it as a vehicle for propaganda. Hell they even do it on Comedy Central, all of those Daily Show type guys and Amy Schumer types, were just churning out not so subtle hatred at conservatives and Trump. These people were actually in tears when Hillary lost....:pac:

People don't trust the mainstream media anymore. I can't turn on RTE news or radio, without their extreme Liberal agenda being thrown in my face. They have zero balance, look at ther coverage of this election. I manage less than 2 minutes and turn off in disgust.

That would mean you don't trust the mainstream media, not 'people'. Plenty of people watching RTE news without any disgust whatsoever.

Snickers Man

Mr Joe wrote: »

The Liberals fully took over the the mainstream media and just use it as a vehicle for propaganda. Hell they even do it on Comedy Central, all of those Daily Show type guys and Amy Schumer types, were just churning out not so subtle hatred at conservatives and Trump. These people were actually in tears when Hillary lost....:pac:

People don't trust the mainstream media anymore. I can't turn on RTE news or radio, without their extreme Liberal agenda being thrown in my face. They have zero balance, look at ther coverage of this election. I manage less than 2 minutes and turn off in disgust.

Who are "The Liberals"?
Who are "The Mainstream Media"? Does that include Fox? Hannity? Starnes? Coulter etc?

These are just labels you're throwing around. Arbitrary meaningless tags that mean whatever you want them to mean. Straw men whose arguments you can construct all by yourself and then demolish with all the skill that comes from knowing where the holes are because, after all, you put them there yourself? This is clever?

This is an example of the Silos or Echo Chambers people talk about now, and they apply equally to Clinton as well as Trump supporters. It's a huge problem for America and indeed for the modern world.

IF Donald Trump is the answer, it must have been a damn silly question.

Snickers Man

FA Hayek wrote: »

Not for the first time you prove my point.

You would think the media would be impartial, report the news and the facts.

Give me an example of a TV station in the English speaking world that practices that to the exclusion of all commentary or analysis

ancapailldorcha

Mr Joe wrote: »

The Liberals fully took over the the mainstream media and just use it as a vehicle for propaganda. Hell they even do it on Comedy Central, all of those Daily Show type guys and Amy Schumer types, were just churning out not so subtle hatred at conservatives and Trump. These people were actually in tears when Hillary lost....:pac:

That's some victim fantasy you have there. There's no shortage of right wing media from Fox News and other Murdoch outlets to Breitbart. You also have the various tabloids such as the Daily Mail.

Snickers Man

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I don't believe Trump's white college-educated voters are stupid; I think they're cack-down-the-leg-of-their-trousers scared. As identified by the late Christopher Hitchens in the clip below. He wasn't always right, but occasionally he was on the money. Like here. And when talking about Ayn Rand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An6CeNRCBvo

Trent Houseboat

Trump: *Something racist*
Media: "Trump: *Something racist*"
Alt-Right: It's a jewish conspiracy
Trump: It's a liberal conspiracy. You can't trust the media. ISIS Bigly. Emails.
Average Person: I clearly can't trust mainstream media video of Trump saying something horrible in his own words, but I do trust the facebook story started by Macedonian teens about the Clinton body count.

There's a quote from Justified that I'm going to paraphrase(butcher):
If you run into a biased medium in the morning you ran into a biased medium.
If you run into biased media all day, you're the one with biases.

Mr Joe

alastair wrote: »

That would mean you don't trust the mainstream media, not 'people'. Plenty of people watching RTE news without any disgust whatsoever.

Yeah the same types who live in a bubble and are still in shock Trump got elected and Brexit passed.

RTE and BBCs coverage went much like this:

Presenter: Hillary Clinton is an amazing woman isn't she?

Guest A: Oh yes she is an absolute inspiration to us all, especially women and minorities.

Guest B: Yes she is an example to us all. I tell my children she is someone to look up to!

Presenter: And what about that Trump guy, total racist idiot isn't he?

Guest A: An absolute vile hateful misogynist sexist homophobic racist bigot.

Guest B: Yes total scumbag and his supporters are even worse. I don't think these idiots have any education.

Presenter: Of course they don't, his supporters are just dumb rednecks!

Guest A: Hahaha yes they are, can't wait until these racist losers are put in their place.

alastair

Mr Joe wrote: »

Yeah the same types who live in a bubble and are still in shock Trump got elected and Brexit passed.

RTE and BBCs coverage went much like this:

Presenter: Hillary Clinton is an amazing woman isn't she?

Guest A: Oh yes she is an absolute inspiration to us all, especially women and minorities.

Guest B: Yes she is an example to us all. I tell my children she is someone to look up to!

Presenter: And what about that Trump guy, total racist idiot isn't he?

Guest A: An absolute vile hateful misogynist sexist homophobic racist bigot.

Guest B: Yes total scumbag and his supporters are even worse. I don't think these idiots have any education.

Presenter: Of course they don't, his supporters are just dumb rednecks!

Guest A: Hahaha yes they are, can't wait until these racist losers are put in their place.

Your personal creative writing isn't really convincing on any front. Sorry.

Mr Joe

alastair wrote: »

Your personal creative writing isn't really convincing on any front. Sorry.

Sadly I don't need to be too creative. It's going out on the airwaves daily. But since you agree with it you are happy enough for only your side of the fence to get a hearing.

alastair

Mr Joe wrote: »

Sadly I don't need to be too creative. It's going out on the airwaves daily. But since you agree with it you are happy enough for only your side of the fence to get a hearing.

Trump got his hearing and what you mistake for 'bias' is the expected and rational reaction to what he had to say. Nothing strange in that.

Snickers Man

Mr Joe wrote: »

Sadly I don't need to be too creative. It's going out on the airwaves daily. But since you agree with it you are happy enough for only your side of the fence to get a hearing.

Let's just be clear. Do you actually admire Trump, (and if so why?) or do you just take delight in antagonising people who don't?

Seriously. Is "I don't like CNN New Anchors" your criterion for choosing a candidate by opting for the one you think they like the least?

And is that a good policy? Just asking.