The biased Media vs Trump!

Billy86

Calina wrote: »

Dude, you can build all the walls you like but frankly, if things are as awful in Mexico as you paint, it won't stop anyone. Ask anyone in Europe. People are risking drowning to get across the Mediterranean here to get away from Syria. A wall will not block a truly determined person and not only that, the bulk of your illegal residents arrived legally via the airports.

It's also willfully ignoring that a lot of illegals enter the country legally. Get a temporary work visa, tourist visa, etc... arrive in the US at whichever airport... disappear from authorities.

No magic wall is going to magically fix that.

KingBrian2

Billy86 wrote: »

It's also willfully ignoring that a lot of illegals enter the country legally. Get a temporary work visa, tourist visa, etc... arrive in the US at whichever airport... disappear from authorities.

No magic wall is going to magically fix that.

You do accept their is a problem.

Calina

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Most Americans have immigrant backgrounds. That is not in dispute. Nor is this really about immigration. What it really is about is illegal immigration which is a crime. Illegals should not be treated the same as citizens of America.

As for the Mediterranean, Europe needs to police that region and ensure that the refugees can return to their countries once the war & conflicts are over and not to take in a large number of migrants that may pose a danger.

Why will a wall work if the Mediterranean does not?

CMOTDibbler

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Well you are factually incorrect on that. Another thread on that very topic pointed out that most of the refugees are not even from Syria. So we keep throwing around numbers and who these people really are. Getting away from the fact that millions of illegals are entering America each year.

Millions? Millions are entering America each year?

Where do you get this stuff?

Billy86

Also to point out, more illegals from Mexico are leaving the US than entering, and that has been the case for about a decade - pointing to how much of an absolute fallacy the whole idea of bankrupting the entire US economy on the basis of a wall is.

KingBrian2

Calina wrote: »

Why will a wall work if the Mediterranean does not?

Their is already a Mexican American border delineated along the Rio Grande. An artificial wall can be strengthened from this. Europe is divided from Africa by a large sea, turbulent seas and multiple islands. The Caspian Sea & Russian Siberian regions also demark Europe's boundaries with the rest of the world. Europe had no business imposing military outposts all across the region from Gibraltar in the South to Finland in the North. It would require many more treaty's and arduous discussions in the European Parliament & Commission. In America Congress has the power to build Trump's wall.

Calina

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Their is already a Mexican American border delineated along the Rio Grande. An artificial wall can be strengthened from this. Europe is divided from Africa by a large sea, turbulent seas and multiple islands. The Caspian Sea & Russian Siberian regions also demark Europe's boundaries with the rest of the world. Europe had no business imposing military outposts all across the region from Gibraltar in the South to Finland in the North. It would require many more treaty's and arduous discussions in the European Parliament & Commission. In America Congress has the power to build Trump's wall.

Many miles of ocean is not stopping people attempting a crossing. Why and how will a wall stop them? The above quote of yours does not answer this question.

KingBrian2

Calina wrote: »

Many miles of ocean is not stopping people attempting a crossing. Why and how will a wall stop them? The above quote of yours does not answer this question.

You refuse to see with your eyes a land border already is in place between Mexico and America.



Beach in Tijuana at the border


This image really brought it home to me.

Billy86

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You refuse to see with your eyes a land border already is in place between Mexico and America.



Beach in Tijuana at the border


This image really brought it home to me.

Are you mad who has denied a large land border exists between USA and Mexico.

KingBrian2

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Are you mad who has denied a large land border exists between USA and Mexico.

People are suggesting that their is no border between America and Mexico only natural boundaries. Europe has natural boundaries with the Arab world and Africa. The only separation between America and Mexico are fences and entry points that are sporadically placed all along the Rio Grande. The border is porous and open to any and all Mexicans who want to escape the law enforcers in Mexico. It is a public health crisis.

Akrasia

KingBrian2 wrote: »

People are suggesting that their is no border between America and Mexico only natural boundaries. Europe has natural boundaries with the Arab world and Africa. The only separation between America and Mexico are fences and entry points that are sporadically placed all along the Rio Grande. The border is porous and open to any and all Mexicans who want to escape the law enforcers in Mexico. It is a public health crisis.

So the solution is to build a 40 foot tall concrete wall the entire length of the border?

KingBrian2

Akrasia wrote: »

So the solution is to build a 40 foot tall concrete wall the entire length of the border?

The solution is not to let more Mexicans and illegals continue to enter and let the border force fall into disrepair.

Calina

KingBrian2 wrote: »

People are suggesting that their is no border between America and Mexico only natural boundaries. Europe has natural boundaries with the Arab world and Africa. The only separation between America and Mexico are fences and entry points that are sporadically placed all along the Rio Grande. The border is porous and open to any and all Mexicans who want to escape the law enforcers in Mexico. It is a public health crisis.

I have not suggested there is no border. I have asked you to explain why a wall will stop people crossing the border when a significantly more dangerous and challenging sea crossing does not stop people trying to cross elsewhere.

Overheal

Recently what I've seen of the "media bias" against Trump amounts to this:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-has-gotten-nearly-3-billion-in-free-advertising-2016-05-06

And that was in May. Media bias my arse.

As for the wall we've had plenty of time to talk about this, and it just won't work. Got a cup of coffee? Let's go into the overview:

I mean beat your chest all you want that Trump is oppressed, an honest, self-made man who definitely never used illegal underpaid labor to build his properties and never lies and tells it like it is and believes global warming is a hoax except when he doesn't etc etc etc. - but that's all it will be, rabble and chest beating. It won't be factual.

Akrasia

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The solution is not to let more Mexicans and illegals continue to enter and let the border force fall into disrepair.

A solution for stopping illegal immigration is to 'not let them in'?

Is the solution to not letting them in a 40 foot pre cast concrete wall across the entire land border with mexico?

CMOTDibbler

KingBrian2 wrote: »

People are suggesting that their is no border between America and Mexico only natural boundaries. Europe has natural boundaries with the Arab world and Africa. The only separation between America and Mexico are fences and entry points that are sporadically placed all along the Rio Grande. The border is porous and open to any and all Mexicans who want to escape the law enforcers in Mexico. It is a public health crisis.

Do you actually know what a border is? Just answer that, no deflection, no waffle. What is a border?

KingBrian2

Overheal wrote: »

Recently what I've seen of the "media bias" against Trump amounts to this:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-has-gotten-nearly-3-billion-in-free-advertising-2016-05-06

And that was in May. Media bias my arse.

As for the wall we've had plenty of time to talk about this, and it just won't work. Got a cup of coffee? Let's go into the overview:

I mean beat your chest all you want that Trump is oppressed, an honest, self-made man who definitely never used illegal underpaid labor to build his properties and never lies and tells it like it is and believes global warming is a hoax except when he doesn't etc etc etc. - but that's all it will be, rabble and chest beating. It won't be factual.

Clinton is not clean herself. She benefited directly from her husband's trade deals around the world. She claims to represent a liberal alternative in America yet the facts show that far from improving the lives of those in the poorest countries, current trade deals have helped the powerful. All of the refugees are from the poorest Nations in the world courtesy of American policies to date. Trump was nowhere near the White House when all these trade deals were reached and huge sums of money exchanged hands.

Overheal

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Clinton is not clean herself. She benefited directly from her husband's trade deals around the world. She claims to represent a liberal alternative in America yet the facts show that far from improving the lives of those in the poorest countries, current trade deals have helped the powerful. All of the refugees are from the poorest Nations in the world courtesy of American policies to date. Trump was nowhere near the White House when all these trade deals were reached and huge sums of money exchanged hands.

I've scratched through the parts of your post that were a complete deflection.

It appears the rest of your post failed to address anything I contributed to this thread.

KingBrian2

Overheal wrote: »

I've scratched through the parts of your post that were a complete deflection.

It appears the rest of your post failed to address anything I contributed to this thread.

You tend to walk away from the conversation when I bring up the need to stop large numbers of illegal immigrants entering the country. Call them whatever you want unauthorized, undocumented, illegal or unprocessed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/business/30leonside.html

While it would be completely misleading to paint a picture that all illegal immigrants are causing crimes in America. Substantial numbers are contributing to a growing crime rate. This is bad news for citizens and immigrants who want to come to America and be recognized as legal citizens.

While the rates are decreasing as shown in the research first of all that data is already out of date and that number could very easily move back up again if serious measures are not taken and soon.

Overheal

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You tend to walk away from the conversation when I bring up the need to stop large numbers of illegal immigrants entering the country. Call them whatever you want unauthorized, undocumented, illegal or unprocessed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/business/30leonside.html

While it would be completely misleading to paint a picture that all illegal immigrants are causing crimes in America. Substantial numbers are contributing to a growing crime rate. This is bad news for citizens and immigrants who want to come to America and be recognized as legal citizens.

Did you not read my post? This is the first post I've put in Politics in - months? maybe? - specifically about the top of illegal immigrants entering the country. How can the claim possibly be made that I am/tend-to walk away from the conversation? The mind boggles.

KingBrian2

Overheal wrote: »

Did you not read my post? This is the first post I've put in Politics in - months? maybe? - specifically about the top of illegal immigrants entering the country. How can the claim possibly be made that I am/tend-to walk away from the conversation? The mind boggles.

Allow me to clarify the points to date have all concentrated on arguing that America should not have a border wall, it won't stop all the illegals they say from entering the country like Europe. People will keep coming. I agree with this analysis people will keep coming unless you restrict the flow of people as opposed to having a porous border as I have emphasized. With America it is even easier than Europe as America already has a land border with Mexico unlike Europe. Clear demarcation is in many cases already present.

Billy86

Overheal wrote: »

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You tend to walk away from the conversation when I bring up the need to stop large numbers of illegal immigrants entering the country. Call them whatever you want unauthorized, undocumented, illegal or unprocessed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/business/30leonside.html

While it would be completely misleading to paint a picture that all illegal immigrants are causing crimes in America. Substantial numbers are contributing to a growing crime rate. This is bad news for citizens and immigrants who want to come to America and be recognized as legal citizens.

Did you not read my post? This is the first post I've put in Politics in - months? maybe? - specifically about the top of illegal immigrants entering the country. How can the claim possibly be made that I am/tend-to walk away from the conversation? The mind boggles.

I should remind you that you're talking to a poster who thinks Trumps' call to ban all Muslims is only a call to ban Jihadists. And the reasoning behind that is that the poster claims that Trump only wants Jihadists banned and not all Muslims (despite repeatedly outlining he means all Muslims from outside the US) is because they think all Muslims should not be banded together because that would be wrong. So by their reasoning it can't mean all Muslims because you can't refer to Muslims as one group.

Yet that same poster also thinks that the US "has a Muslim problem".

I'll let you read into that what you will, re what you were talking about in the quote I just posted.

KingBrian2

Billy86 wrote: »

I should remind you that you're talking to a poster who thinks Trumps' call to ban all Muslims is only a call to ban Jihadists. And the reasoning behind that is that the poster claims that Trump only wants Jihadists banned and not all Muslims (despite repeatedly outlining he means all Muslims from outside the US) is because they think all Muslims should not be banded together because that would be wrong. So by their reasoning it can't mean all Muslims because you can't refer to Muslims as one group.

Yet that same poster also thinks that the US "has a Muslim problem".

I'll let you read into that what you will, re what you were talking about in the quote I just posted.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-26-of-young-us-muslims-ok-bombs/

You are stigmatized today in America if your a Muslim and people are blaming Trump for this.:eek:

Overheal

Well like I posted first, you should watch the video which does a good job pointing out things that are an issue with this, such as there are places you simply can't build a barrier along the border, and that whatever border you do build will be defeated by a magnitudes-cheaper countermeasure: a 50ft wall will be challenged by a 51ft ladder and a rope. And most immigration doesn't happen across the border on foot/ground anyway, or that which does is done on legally obtained visas, which are then overstayed. Closing the border in the ideal model (ie. on paper, not accounting for air resistance, humidity, delta-gravity at elevation, etc. etc.(kidding)) even if you do stop the immigration problem you disrupt the economy, especially agricultural which relies quite heavily on seasonal migrant labor. Oh, and you kill off the Pygmy Owls - watch the video. Think of the Pygmy Owls.

Oh, and when you force all those companies (#freemarket) to come back to America or get "taxed the **** out of" you're going to deflate the Mexican economy even more, which is just going to make more mexicans go out and buy ropes and ladders, frankly. Not sure how this got so far off the topic of his "media bias" but suffice to say his immigration/economic policy is a complete self-imploding mess.

Pro Hoc Vice

KingBrian2 wrote: »

People are suggesting that their is no border between America and Mexico only natural boundaries. Europe has natural boundaries with the Arab world and Africa. The only separation between America and Mexico are fences and entry points that are sporadically placed all along the Rio Grande. The border is porous and open to any and all Mexicans who want to escape the law enforcers in Mexico. It is a public health crisis.

Quote the posts?

KingBrian2

Overheal wrote: »

Well like I posted first, you should watch the video which does a good job pointing out things that are an issue with this, such as there are places you simply can't build a barrier along the border, and that whatever border you do build will be defeated by a magnitudes-cheaper countermeasure: a 50ft wall will be challenged by a 51ft ladder and a rope. And most immigration doesn't happen across the border on foot/ground anyway, or that which does is done on legally obtained visas, which are then overstayed. Closing the border in the ideal model (ie. on paper, not accounting for air resistance, humidity, delta-gravity at elevation, etc. etc.(kidding)) even if you do stop the immigration problem you disrupt the economy, especially agricultural which relies quite heavily on seasonal migrant labor. Oh, and you kill off the Pygmy Owls - watch the video. Think of the Pygmy Owls.

Oh, and when you force all those companies (#freemarket) to come back to America or get "taxed the **** out of" you're going to deflate the Mexican economy even more, which is just going to make more mexicans go out and buy ropes and ladders, frankly. Not sure how this got so far off the topic of his "media bias" but suffice to say his immigration/economic policy is a complete self-imploding mess.

It is media bias as Trump did not start this call for greater border measures and having a wall that would prevent large number of illegal immigrants entering the US.

This is a long running issue and the Mexican gvt gets off scot free. Death squads roam the Mexican countryside and many Mexicans seek political and economic sanctuary in America. They have nowhere else to turn to.

Why are we making the Californians, Texans & Arizona suffer at the hands of illegals overstaying their visit? Trump is the only politician speaking for those damaged by the reprehensible policies of allowing this broken system to continue as is.

KingBrian2

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Quote the posts?

Those who advocate open borders know who they are.

Akrasia

KingBrian2 wrote: »

It is media bias as Trump did not start this call for greater border measures and having a wall that would prevent large number of illegal immigrants entering the US.

This is a long running issue and the Mexican gvt gets off scot free. Death squads roam the Mexican countryside and many Mexicans seek political and economic sanctuary in America. They have nowhere else to turn to.

Why are we making the Californians, Texans & Arizona suffer at the hands of illegals overstaying their visit? Trump is the only politician speaking for those damaged by the reprehensible policies of allowing this broken system to continue as is.

What are you talking about. Trump's wall was pretty much the only policy he stood firmly behind for the entire Primary campaign. He focused hugely on immigration in his rhetoric and his rallies. Trump didn't start the topic of immigration, it's been going on since humans left the african plains a million years ago, but he choose to make it the pillar of his campaign, and it comes across as extremely dishonest for a trump supporter to claim media bias just because the media doesn't stop mentioning Trump's own platform while the election is still in progress.

I've never seen such cry babies as Trump fans who say the media is biased against him.

There is nothing in the media reporting of Trump that is not a direct consequence of things Trump himself has said or done. This is the one campaign where the media doesn't have to make things up or exaggerate claims to make him look bad. All they have to do is reprint his own words, or repost unedited video of his own campaign speeches or his own tweets.

If anything, the media is going too easy on him, because half of the crazy stuff he says doesn't even a fraction of the coverage it would get if Hillary or any other candidate had said it.

Overheal

Why are you calling him a politician? I assumed half of his appeal was based on the fact that he wasn't one.

Also I don't know why you begin by saying "It is media bias against Trump" - what exactly is the media bias? Are the analyses, projections, limitations, circumventions, problems etc. etc. with building a border wall - and thus the reporting on them - a media bias against Trump? How is that? Right now the argument sounds like this:

Everyone: "Water is wet"
Trump: "No it isn't"
Media: "Yes it is"
Supporters: "BIAS!"