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House needs some work, seller won't budge on price - thoughts?

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  • 26-08-2016 10:02am
    #1
    Floodzie
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭


    Hi,

    We are buying a house as cash buyers (family loan) so don't need to deal with banks.

    The house we are Sale Agreed on is old but has been done up to a high spec recently. The renovations were all done to a good standard.

    Our survey has highlighted some areas that should be addressed, and the surveyor has given us a rough quote of 20k. These mostly concern new regulations etc that came in just after the renovations were finished, but mainly it is a LARGE number of quite minor issues. The house is structurally fine, lived in recently, and there are no immediate concerns.

    The problem is that the seller won't budge on price. At all. We need to buy and they are happy to wait until the right offer comes along.

    We plan on paying for the work ourselves over the next few years, to prevent more serious issues and so we have the option to sell to a mortgaged purchaser in future (banks are very strict about surveys).

    There are a large number of cash buyers around at the minute, and houses in that area are getting snapped up.

    Has anyone been through this? It's quite stressful. We are going ahead with the sale, aware that the buyer should beware.

    I have heard of someone losing out on a sale because they wanted work done or the price reduced before they would buy.

    It's not a buyer's market right now, so is this the new normal?


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    #2
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Is the €20k of work to bring the house up to current regs or to actually address real issues?

    There's a big difference. It would cost me the guts of €100k to bring my house up to current regs, but I'm not going to. It's unnecessary.

    The house is structurally fine, recently renovated. Is there any work that actually needs to be done?


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    #3
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Floodzie wrote: »

    It's not a buyer's market right now, so is this the new normal?

    Have you not heard of the massive housing shortage? While it's not quite a sellers market yet , it's most certainly not a buyer market anymore

    How much are you paying for the house ? 20,000 off 100,000 is a big deal not so much off a 1,000,000 house


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    #4
    Floodzie
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Floodzie


    seamus wrote: »
    The house is structurally fine, recently renovated. Is there any work that actually needs to be done?

    There's nothing that we want done in terms of how we would use the house. The bedroom windows need to be changed because there are fire regs now that say the bottom half needs to open, currently they open from the top and I can see the issue of having to climb over a pane of glass if trying to get out. Also, the attic conversion can't be used as a bedroom until we install a fire door. These will be one of the first things we change.

    There are some tiles that need replacing too, and a long list of minor issues. The house is structurally and functionally fine (we don't even need the attic conversion for the time being).


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    #5
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    What's your question?
    You want them to drop the price, they've said no. You now need to decide if you're willing to pay the higher price or walk away, simple as.


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    #6
    Floodzie
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Floodzie


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Have you not heard of the massive housing shortage? While it's not quite a sellers market yet , it's most certainly not a buyer market anymore

    How much are you paying for the house ? 20,000 off 100,000 is a big deal not so much off a 1,000,000 house

    500k. Yes, 20k not a lot of money in comparison, but we will be completely broke after we buy the place. We'll only be able to afford a cheap couch and bed. That's it! :-)


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    #7
    Floodzie
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Floodzie


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    What's your question?
    You want them to drop the price, they've said no. You now need to decide if you're willing to pay the higher price or walk away, simple as.

    We've been looking for a few years, been gazumped once, and outbid about a half-dozen times. Our negotiating position is weak.

    Are sellers now refusing to lower prices as a rule?


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    #8
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    Floodzie wrote:
    We plan on paying for the work ourselves over the next few years, to prevent more serious issues and so we have the option to sell to a mortgaged purchaser in future (banks are very strict about surveys).

    Floodzie wrote:
    Our survey has highlighted some areas that should be addressed, and the surveyor has given us a rough quote of 20k. These mostly concern new regulations etc that came in just after the renovations were finished, but mainly it is a LARGE number of quite minor issues. The house is structurally fine, lived in recently, and there are no immediate concerns.


    Simple answer is you don't buy it someone else will. The seller is confident they'll get their price why should they drop the price. The market is not exactly over supplied at the moment.


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    #9
    Floodzie
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Floodzie


    nhunter100 wrote: »
    Simple answer is you don't buy it someone else will. The seller is confident they'll get their price why should they drop the price. The market is not exactly over supplied at the moment.

    You're right. I'm old-school, it used to be that a survey showed how much money you could get off the Sale Agreed price, rather than how much money you'll need to spend after purchase! :-)


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    #10
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    I dont really understand what the problem is - the house is not up to current regs - but nothing is except recent builds. And when the regs change, they will be out of date too.

    I dont see why you would be spending 20k to rectify things that dont need to be rectified?

    The seller is right not to budge, no one expects a house to be up to current regs unless it is a new house.


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    #11
    Floodzie
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Floodzie


    intheclouds wrote: »

    I dont see why you would be spending 20k to rectify things that dont need to be rectified?

    It's so we have the option to sell in 10 years, and also to prevent more serious issues (for example some tiles need replacing which can cause water seepage etc)


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    #12
    nhunter100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    Floodzie wrote:
    You're right. I'm old-school, it used to be that a survey showed how much money you could get off the Sale Agreed price, rather than how much money you'll need to spend after purchase! :-)


    You've already said the seller is not moving off price. So your options are limited, pay the asking or walk away. Good luck either way.


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    #13
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Floodzie wrote: »
    It's so we have the option to sell in 10 years, and also to prevent more serious issues (for example some tiles need replacing which can cause water seepage etc)

    A few tiles isnt going to cost 20k.

    You will still be able to sell in 10 years - why would you think you cant?


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    #14
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Floodzie wrote: »
    We've been looking for a few years, been gazumped once, and outbid about a half-dozen times. Our negotiating position is weak.

    Are sellers now refusing to lower prices as a rule?

    Your risking being outbid or gazumped again for the sake of 4% ?


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    #15
    Floodzie
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Floodzie


    intheclouds wrote: »
    A few tiles isnt going to cost 20k.

    You will still be able to sell in 10 years - why would you think you cant?

    It's not just tiles, there is some insulation needing replacing, a minor issue with plumbing, a roof rafter is weak and should be replaced eventually... the list goes on.

    In 10 years, if we want to sell and the buyer has a mortgage, then the bank will not lend the money if there are issues highlighted by a survey.


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    #16
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Why buy your house with one eye already on selling it?

    You haven't highlighted where you're buying, but sellers do drop the price if they want to sell and aren't getting interest in it.


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    #17
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    Floodzie wrote: »
    It's so we have the option to sell in 10 years, and also to prevent more serious issues (for example some tiles need replacing which can cause water seepage etc)

    Anything you do now will be out of date in 10 years time anyway. Just buy, and update when you go to sell.


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    #18
    Floodzie
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Floodzie


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Your risking being outbid or gazumped again for the sake of 4% ?

    I think you're right. I just want someone to tell me to buy!! :-)


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    #19
    intheclouds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,175 ✭✭✭intheclouds


    Floodzie wrote: »
    It's not just tiles, there is some insulation needing replacing, a minor issue with plumbing, a roof rafter is weak and should be replaced eventually... the list goes on.

    In 10 years, if we want to sell and the buyer has a mortgage, then the bank will not lend the money if there are issues highlighted by a survey.

    What? Where did you hear this?


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    #20
    Floodzie
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Floodzie


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Why buy your house with one eye already on selling it?

    You haven't highlighted where you're buying, but sellers do drop the price if they want to sell and aren't getting interest in it.

    We don't really want to sell, but it would be nice to know we have the option.


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    #21
    Floodzie
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Floodzie


    intheclouds wrote: »
    What? Where did you hear this?

    A work colleague recently bought a house and had to jump through hoops first because of subsidence issues.


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    #22
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    The issues you highlight seem a lot more minor than subsidence, in which the entire structure of the building could be at risk.


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    #23
    Floodzie
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Floodzie


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    You haven't highlighted where you're buying, but sellers do drop the price if they want to sell and aren't getting interest in it.

    It's an up and coming part of Dublin, very close to a better area (1 min walk). Another similarly priced house was sale agreed in a couple of months.


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    #24
    Floodzie
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Floodzie


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    The issues you highlight seem a lot more minor than subsidence, in which the entire structure of the building could be at risk.

    You're right, they are minor. I suppose if we were to sell we could wait to see what the survey and bank said...

    Some issues (like the windows, tiles and fire door) we will get fixed anyway.


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    #25
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    Floodzie wrote: »
    It's an up and coming part of South Dublin, very close to a better area (1 min walk). Another similarly priced house was sale agreed in a couple of months.

    It was a reference to you asking if sellers are refusing to reduce asking price as a rule. If they get no interest and want to sell, they reduce. If they're getting enough interest at the price they're asking, why would they.


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    #26
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Floodzie wrote: »
    I think you're right. I just want someone to tell me to buy!! :-)
    As you seem to have been poorly advised in terms of the current requirements for the house so let me offer some more advice...
    Floodzie wrote: »
    500k. Yes, 20k not a lot of money in comparison, but we will be completely broke after we buy the place. We'll only be able to afford a cheap couch and bed. That's it! :-)
    Buy it.


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    #27
    Floodzie
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Floodzie


    kbannon wrote: »
    As you seem to have been poorly advised in terms of the current requirements for the house so let me offer some more advice...


    Buy it.

    Ha - ok! :-)


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    #28
    Penalty
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭Penalty


    I think you need to understand what the survey is saying.

    It costs 20k to bring the house to CURRENT building regs. There is no problem with the house as it met the regulations when it was built. It does not need to be brought up to current regs to sell. It only matters was it built in accordance with the planning permission and regs at the time of completion.

    99% of houses sold do not met current regs. No seller is going to reduce their sale price to reflect the cost of upgrading the house to current regs.

    Its up to you to decide if you want to upgrade your house.

    If you want to change the window that's on you not the seller. If its something you want to do to give you piece of mind afterwards then thats your choice.

    Things like the tiles will need to be done as you say to stop leakage but relatively small costs and are you going to lose the house over that.


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    #29
    One_Of_Shanks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭One_Of_Shanks


    We had some minor stuff come back from our surveyor when buying too, a lot of small things. So we asked them for reduction in price but they refused.

    Long story short, we've been happily living there for a year now, did all the minor repairs as we went along and no regrets.

    I'd go ahead if I was you, if it's the home you want don't lose it over something that can be quite easily sorted.


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    #30
    tommythecat
    Registered Users Posts: 722 ✭✭✭tommythecat


    All of the issues you mentioned are fairly regular ones that a lot of houses have. The banks will lend for any of these issues. Subsidence is a very different structural issue to a firedoor and window replacement or indeed some damp etc. You need to forget about selling in 10 years and worry about now. I certainly wouldn't drop my sales price for essentially comsmetic work

    4kwp South East facing PV System. 5.3kwh Weco battery. South Dublin City.



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    #31
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Floodzie wrote: »
    In 10 years, if we want to sell and the buyer has a mortgage, then the bank will not lend the money if there are issues highlighted by a survey.
    No, this is not correct.

    The bank sends a valuer, not a surveyor. As one valuer put it to me, their job is to make sure that there is in fact a house standing at the given address which can be lived in, and nothing more. They go in, count the rooms, make a few measurements and leave again, 15 minutes work.

    They report on the condition of the house with just 3 grades - Good, Fair or Poor. "Poor" means, "abandoned wreck, no roof". "Fair" means, "In need of substantial renovation, barely fit for habitation".

    Tbh, the stuff you're talking about is minor stuff, standard work that anyone would have to do on moving in. Nothing sounds like an issue that needs to be correct in the short or medium term.


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