House needs some work, seller won't budge on price - thoughts?

68 lost souls

68 lost souls wrote: »

They aren't they are getting a family loan so no official mortgage but will have to repay family memebrs, very messy

No reason for it to be messy, a lot of people have great relationships with their parents and it would be a very straight forward thing to set up.

riclad

IT.S ok in my opinion to ask for a price reduction ,if offer is subject to survey ,
And survey finds major faults ,eg dry rot,rising damp, leaks ,which will need need fixing to make the house livable in,or to stop further structural
damage to the building.
in the case it sounds like the 20k is being spent on alot of small things,
new roof tiles ,maybe more insulation ,Fire door ,or pvc windows etc
The whole point of a survey is to check will buyer need to fix major problems ,is there any structural problems which will cost 1000,s of euros
to fix.
Some people will stop the transaction if they find they will need to
spend large amounts on basic repairs to the building .
To make it liveable or safe to live in.
so the 20k is being mostly spent to bring the house up to 2016
regs ,things which another buyer may not bother doing .

which makes the case for asking for a price reduction weak.

The_Conductor

Floodzie wrote: »

It's not just tiles, there is some insulation needing replacing, a minor issue with plumbing, a roof rafter is weak and should be replaced eventually... the list goes on.

In 10 years, if we want to sell and the buyer has a mortgage, then the bank will not lend the money if there are issues highlighted by a survey.

These are all pretty general issues.
You paid a surveyor to come up with a shopping list of issues.
He/she has done so.
There is nothing critical in your list- save perhaps doing the couple of roofing tiles before the winter- everything else can wait.

As other posters have correctly pointed out- unless you are going to buy a brand new house- you are not going to purchase a house which complies with current building regulations.

Some of the current regulations by the way- may be counter to conservation orders on older buildings etc (such as your afore mentioned windows that open from the top rather than the bottom)..........

Your surveyor did a thorough job- and has given you a remediation list to be fulfilled.

If the seller went and spent 20-30k doing the items on your list- it would not add 20-30k to the value of the property.

The state of the market is quite simply- repairs or renovations to properties- does not add value to them. A burnt out shell of a property may make the same as a thoroughly modernly renvovated property of the exact same size a few doors down.

The buyer is not budging on price- that is entirely normal- if you annoy him/her- they may put up past the psychological 500k mark- safe in the knowledge they will have a cash buyer take it off their hands within a few weeks- I'm quite familiar with a few properties in the Dunlaoghaire Rathdown area of South Dublin recently- where buyers tried to play games with surveys- and ended up being told to take a hike by the sellers.........

It is not a buyers market- other than the mantra about cash being king holding true. But that said- in some areas of Dublin- sales, such as they are- rapidly approaching the 100% cash sale mark- if the area is a high demand area- the buyer may deduce, correctly, that they can get another cash buyer without too much difficulty.

I'm just going to put it out there- if you are stretching yourself to the extent that you can't even afford a few bits of Ikea furniture after you purchase the property- and are agonising over what appears on the face of it to be a pretty general repair list- perhaps you should look at property in a lower price bracket that doesn't stretch you to the same extent?

If I were in your position- and could make the figures work- I'd simply use the surveyors report as a to-do list over the next few years- I'd go through the items, one by one, assigning them a priority level (the roof tiles being level one- possibly the plumbing too- everything else a lower priority).

The flipside of this though- is if I genuinely couldn't see myself staying there past the 10 year mark- I'd have to seriously question why I was buying the property in the first place......... 10 years is a very short time to own a property- and there is absolutely no guarantee it'll be worth more in 10 years time- look at whats coming down the road in the next 10 years-

• Brexit
• 300,000 additional pensioners
• Worker dependency ratio dropping from a current 5:1 to an all time low of 2:1
• 75% of funding provided by EU and IMF to be repaid (by 2031)
• Daily fines from the Commission for breaches of 7 different directives, perhaps totaling 88 million a day (including water, car regulations, bogs etc etc)

This country of ours is going to be a very different place in 10 years time- I would not make assumptions that it'll be a favourable place to live or work any longer.........

riclad

Who knows what will happen in 10 years time, re interest rates ,oil prices etc,sterling is falling vs euro due to brexit.
brexit will have negative effects on the uk, alot of irish exports go to the uk.
I presume you are thinking ,i will do all the repairs needed .
In 10 years time ,i will sell the house a profit as its in a good area .
someone who is spending 400k,plus can afford to borrow 5k.

Floodzie

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'm just going to put it out there- if you are stretching yourself to the extent that you can't even afford a few bits of Ikea furniture after you purchase the property- and are agonising over what appears on the face of it to be a pretty general repair list- perhaps you should look at property in a lower price bracket that doesn't stretch you to the same extent?

The area is good but not perfect (yet, hopefully) but it's the closest we've been to buying a house - we usually get out-bid. Lots of cash buyers competing with eachother - I don't know how mortgaged buyers manage it!

The_Conductor wrote: »

If I were in your position- and could make the figures work- I'd simply use the surveyors report as a to-do list over the next few years- I'd go through the items, one by one, assigning them a priority level (the roof tiles being level one- possibly the plumbing too- everything else a lower priority).

Yes, that's probably what we'll do.

The_Conductor wrote: »

The flipside of this though- is if I genuinely couldn't see myself staying there past the 10 year mark- I'd have to seriously question why I was buying the property in the first place......... 10 years is a very short time to own a property- and there is absolutely no guarantee it'll be worth more in 10 years time- look at whats coming down the road in the next 10 years-

Who knows what the place will be like in 10 years? It's just an option, not set in stone. We would at the very least like to spend some time abroad (my partner is foreign) in 10 years.

riclad

You can buy a large 3 bed house with a back yard in the city centre ,dublin 1,2
ballybough , 100-150k ,northside .
it sounds to me like you are paying 400k to live in a middle class area
on the southside.

The_Conductor

riclad wrote: »

You can buy a large 3 bed house with a back yard in the city centre ,dublin 1,2
ballybough , 100-150k ,northside .
it sounds to me like you are paying 400k to live in a middle class area
on the southside.

Obviously- location is a factor- however, from the description the OP has given- modern property, recently extensively renovated, walk-in condition etc etc- you're simply not going to get something like that- even in Ballybough- for 100k..........

riclad

http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/north-strand/1-shamrock-place-north-strand-dublin-3-north-strand-dublin-1201696/

prices have gone up in the last 3 years .
But i think its foolish to pay 400k for a house if you are left with hardly
any money to furnish it .

seamus

riclad wrote: »

http://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/north-strand/1-shamrock-place-north-strand-dublin-3-north-strand-dublin-1201696/

prices have gone up in the last 3 years .
But i think its foolish to pay 400k for a house if you are left with hardly
any money to furnish it .

That's a tiny 2-bed to be fair, plus it's a corner house in a dodgy part of Dublin. Kitchen and bathroom need a refit, and by the sounds of the central heating and the BER rating, it might also need a retrofit of a gas system.

The_Conductor

Plus- I seriously think the estate agent has gotten the size of the property wrong

riclad

I Think you could find a nice house 3bed with a garden in cabra ,for 200k approx .cabra is a safe area , 15 minutes walk from the city centre .

The_Conductor

riclad wrote: »

I Think you could find a nice house 3bed with a garden in cabra ,for 200k approx .cabra is a safe area , 15 minutes walk from the city centre .

Lots of people do not share your love for Cabra.
However- DAFT disagrees with your price assumptions for the area-

The very cheapest 3 bed in Cabra (which basically requires a complete rewiring, replumbing, heating system- and very possibly a new roof- is 170k- and of the 15 properties in Cabra currently on sale with a minimum of 3 beds- the average price is 310k- not 200k.......

Link here: http://www.daft.ie/dublin-city/property-for-sale/cabra/?s[mnb]=3&s[advanced]=1&searchSource=sale

Lack of supply is driving prices- even in places like Cabra............. The OP is paying a small premium to live in a particular area- however, were you to transpose their proposed purchase to Cabra- who is to say they wouldn't be paying the vast bulk of what they now propose to pay.........?

Jen44

we recently bought a house it needs the whole heating system including pipes re done, it needs all the electrics re done a seriously out dated bathroom and a kitchen that needs extending. Its an older house built in the 60's and we have found other numerous small issues since moving in. We still went ahead, the location was perfect for us around the corner from my parents who mind our daughter and its a house we can see ourselves extending and staying in. We havent touched the plumbing or electrical issues yet, the last family lived in it their entire lives with no problems. We will get around to it when we have the money which we dont now! My point is you need to decided if this is the house for you, you will not want to put a load of money into a house you dont plan on staying in. And if its a house you are going to stay in you will take your time and do it right.

riclad

do The rewiring first ,it cost around 4k ,for a standard 3 bed house,
you can save money by buying materials on adverts,ie ,
bricks, tiles, pvc windows ,doors ,etc
the other things can wait.

http://www.macswarehouse.ie/building-materials/
half to 1/3 the cost of items bought in builders providers .
i,m sorry ,I dont check house prices every month.
2 years ago a standard house in cabra 2-3 bed was 200-240k .

riclad

I,ll Be putting in new kitchen, new bathroom, total rewiring ,
putting in 7 pvc windows and 3 new doors .
I reckon it,ll cost around 10-12k ,using materials bought from macs warehouse.or adverts ie.
Me and a friend will do most of the work ,
All thats in the kitchen now is 4 walls ,old wooden windows and a wooden door .
a registered recci electrician will do the rewiring .
Sorry for going off topic.
Sometimes it s worth spending alot on a house if its in the right area for you ,close to shops ,schools ,family .

astrofool

Floodzie wrote: »

You're right. I'm old-school, it used to be that a survey showed how much money you could get off the Sale Agreed price, rather than how much money you'll need to spend after purchase! :-)

I don't think this ever was the case, especially regarding current regs. The only reason you'd drop the bid after a survey is if something very significant came up that was unknown, like foundations, or needing a new roof, but in those cases the buyer should walk away and let the existing owner rectify.

Beanybabog

I would buy it. Any second hand house would need some work. I bought and could easily spend 20k fixing problems identified in my survey (and unfortunately some that were not identified) but since most are minor and do not affect my immediately ability to live in the property I am happy. I didn't ask for a reduction.

Jeju

The seller is missing a trick if all the attic conversion needs is a firedoor to make it a legit bedroom. Another bedroom in a house would add 20k onto the price. A firework and frame would be approx 450Euro.

riclad

The purpose of a survey is too show ,major problems, rising damp, dry rot,leaks
problems with the structure of the house ,along with the cost of these repairs .
As well as small problems that need fixing .like cracked windows ,plaster that need s replastering .One person may walk away if they see repairs that cost 10-20 k.
Some people may say ,i,ll pay the 20k extra to live ,because in
this area there,s only a small no house,s for sale ,in my price range.
Surveys will show problems in the house ,repairs that need to be done.
A survey will probably not show things in the house that are built
as per building regs 2001 and are now below building regs in 2016.
Unless its to do with fire safety.

Parchment

We pulled out of a purchase recently - there was 30k of work needed for structural reasons and the seller wouldn't even meet us half way. This cost was only to get the house safe and sound - nothing cosmetic.

We walked away from the sale.

nhunter100

Parchment wrote:

We pulled out of a purchase recently - there was 30k of work needed for structural reasons and the seller wouldn't even meet us half way. This cost was only to get the house safe and sound - nothing cosmetic.

What you walked away from is the opposite from the opening post here.

Parchment

nhunter100 wrote: »

What you walked away from is the opposite from the opening post here.

I'm aware of that - but if the seller is not being reasonable, there is no need to go through with the sale. Why be out of pocket?

shaunr68

IMHO surveyors like to cover their arses and point out every minor defect just in case, then the buyer can't complain that they didn't point it out.

We sold our previous property late last year, a semi in the north of England. Settled on a price of £175K. Survey came back, full rewire required. Complete nonsense since the house was reqired in 2005, modern consumer unit the works, the wiring will be good for at least another 15 years. Of course a 2005 rewire isn't going to meet the 2015 regs, nor is any other house rewired at any time prior to 2015.

Block paved driveway was built "above the damp proof course" and needed completely excavating and rebuilding. Total scaremongering. When queried, there were a few places where the driveway wasn't quite the *recommended* 2 courses of bricks below the house DPC. A few centimetres short in fact. It will never be a problem and nobody in their right mind is going to rip the drive up and rebuild.

That in conjunction with lots and lots of minor work that no buyer is going to undertake but the surveyors deemed worth mentioning because they always err on the side of caution.

In terms of your bedroom windows not opening at the bottom. Ours don't either but I'm not going to spend thousands tearing out perfectly good windows. Keep a hammer in each bedroom and you can break the glass (in the corner) in an emergency. Also I prefer a fixed double glazed window with a smaller, opening panel at the top which is much more secure compared to one that opens fully allowing a person to climb out (or in).

They came back with a revised offer of £165K, £10K below agreed price. We told then we'd drop the price by £2K on good will but that was our final position and we were fully prepared to put it back on the market. They bought for £173K.

Obviously it depends how much you like the house, if the seller is bluffing or does he really believe he can get the full asking price. Are you prepared to walk away?

the_syco

Floodzie wrote: »

There are a large number of cash buyers around at the minute, and houses in that area are getting snapped up.

I'm assuming that this is the reason they're not budging; they don't need to.