Dating an unemployed woman

Potatoeman

anewme wrote: »

the key word is voluntary.

The person who posted was not struggling, in fact was in a very good place financially.

I would not be happy if someone told me I was spending too much money on crap.

You'd wonder how you managed to get by perfectly fine without their input?

That really depends how much you save, how old you are and your long term security. Some people cover their costs but have not prepared for their future. Can you live on your pension? etc. If you did settle with this person and they saved way more, would that be fair on them? It is a pretty good idea to look at where your money is going too.
It can surprise you.

Permabear

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intheclouds

Permabear wrote: »

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I was made redundant before and I chose to stay at home and study for 2 years (the redundancy payment allowed it). It was the best 2 years of my life. People were asking if Id had plastic surgery because all the stress left my face!

Before that, I would have had your attitude. My outlook changed from that experience.

But I do agree, Id have to be doing something, at that time I had the goal of a second degree (got a 1st in it too!).

Id love to do something more personally rewarding but I genuinely do not know what i could do that would be. I would be sick of any job if I had to do it daily.

Sorry, gone way off topic......

anewme

Potatoeman wrote: »

That really depends how much you save, how old you are and your long term security. Some people cover their costs but have not prepared for their future. Can you live on your pension? etc. If you did settle with this person and they saved way more, would that be fair on them? It is a pretty good idea to look at where your money is going too.
It can surprise you.

to be honest, if I started going out with someone and it was fairly early days, I would not really discuss my financial business at all.

If I settled with someone it would be a different story of course, but if they started dictating or lecturing then it would be the high road for them.

If someone saved more than me, that is really their own business, I earn a decent enough salary, put enough away but am not afraid to live in the now either.

Permabear

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anewme

Permabear wrote: »

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who defines trivial?

anewme

Permabear wrote: »

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That's exactly my point. Who said I cant.

Elliott S

I was unemployed when I met my OH. BUT at the time, looking for work was my job. I easily spent 40 hours a week on the hunt, be it applying for jobs, preparing for interviews, seeking out jobs to apply for, asking around with contacts. So it was very obvious I was driven about finding work. And six months into our relationship, I became employed again.

I think it would have been very different if I had sat there scratching myself. I don't think we would have got off the starting blocks in that scenario.

Oddly though, I'm much better with money than him so I often had more fluidity than him in those first six months.

As for demurring because she has health issues - that's your call but let me say, nobody ever knows what is going to happen with their health. Health issues can come like a bolt from the blue, even for seemingly healthy people. While there are steps we can all take to healthier, we are less in control in this area than we like to think. I have seen a lot of young, super fit healthy people be stricken with serious illnesses.

Permabear

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Elliott S

Elliott S wrote: »

I was unemployed when I met my OH. BUT at the time, looking for work was my job. I easily spent 40 hours a week on the hunt, be it applying for jobs, preparing for interviews, seeking out jobs to apply for, asking around with contacts. So it was very obvious I was driven about finding work. And six months into our relationship, I became employed again.

I think it would have been very different if I had sat there scratching myself. I don't think we would have got off the starting blocks in that scenario.

Oddly though, I'm much better with money than him so I often had more fluidity than him in those first six months.

As for demurring because she has health issues - that's your call but let me say, nobody ever knows what is going to happen with their health. Health issues can come like a bolt from the blue, even for seemingly healthy people.

Gah, edited this post, it initially said the opposite of what my point was!

Elliott S

Sleepy wrote: »

Cancer or something like that wouldn't be a cause for concern but a mental health issue such as depression or anxiety would have me running for the hills.

At the time I got with my OH, I was finally getting on top of clincal depression. I'm so glad it didn't put him off. If I'm honest, it's disappointing to read the above. Again, depression is something that can hit someone out of nowhere, yourself included. I mean real depression too. Of course, anything at all can be a dealbreaker but to be so dismissive of something like depression is problematic, IMO.

Wibbs wrote: »

Never again though. Why should I? I'm not a shrink and I'm long past the "I want to save her" mentality.

Right but why would you think you'd be treated as a shrink? I guess it must have happened to you in the past but as someone who has been clinically depressed in the past, I never used my OH in such a way. I dealt with it separately.


My posts pertaining to illness here are coming from someone who has had her ass kicked by health issues in various ways throughout her life. I sincerely hope nobody here suffers any serious health issues. I really mean that. Health truly is wealth. But if your health does take a blow, I'm sure you would hope that your significant other would stick by you and realise that you are more than your illness. That all the great qualities you have are still there in spite of your illness.

audi12

intheclouds wrote: »

Who wouldnt want to give up work if they could afford to, male or female?

At different times myself and my husband have both been redundant. Whenever one of us was at home there was a significant improvement in quality of life for both of us.

The person at home would take care of chores, cooking, cleaning, laundry etc... The person working would come home to a hot dinner, no chores to do and a free evening for both to spend together.

When we both work evenings consist of both of us playing catch up on chores and pre cooking the next days lunches etc... We are both permanently knackered and life is a treadmill of work, housework, sleep, work......

We would both like if one of us could give up work - doesnt matter which one. It would be more likely to be him as Im the higher earner.

But we cant afford the quality of life we both want unless both of us work.

You seem to be implying in your countless posts that a woman who doesnt want to work after she gets married is some kind of parasite or too lazy to contribute while conveniently ignoring the increase in quality of life for both people if only one partner has to work. You also seem to be implying that its only women who dont want to work. And that she makes the decision herself and her poor husband is a victim. Perhaps you dont understand how healthy relationships work - generally big decisions about working are made as a couple. Its not one individual who decides "Im not working, support me". Thats just not real life.

I dont know where you are getting your information from but I suggest you reread my posts. I have no issue with a woman who expects not to have to work especially attractive women who are sought after. I already said that earlier in a post I wouldent be shocked if a woman said she expects not to work after we get married.

Permabear

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Elliott S

I would agree. I was unemployed and getting over clinical depression when my OH met me. Unfortunately other, more final, health issues have arisen in me since we got together that are unrelated to depression. But we literally could not have foreseen it due to my young age. I've been staggeringly unlucky! So has my OH been. I'm sure in his mind, he has wondered what would have been had he not decide to go out with me. Life is one big gamble.

Permabear

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anewme

audi12 wrote: »

I have no issue with a woman who expects not to have to work especially attractive women who are sought after.

Really need to get back in your time machine and press the sat nav. to 2016.

intheclouds

audi12 wrote: »

I dont know where you are getting your information from but I suggest you reread my posts. I have no issue with a woman who expects not to have to work especially attractive women who are sought after. I already said that earlier in a post I wouldent be shocked if a woman said she expects not to work after we get married.

So an ugly woman should work after marriage?

Sleepy

Elliott S wrote: »

Of course, anything at all can be a dealbreaker but to be so dismissive of something like depression is problematic, IMO.

Dismissive? I'd think my attitude was the exact opposite tbh. I recognise the impact it can have on someones life and the lives of those around them. Had someone been out of work for 3+ years because of it, they have a fairly serious case of it and, correct me if I'm wrong but, it would seem to be severe enough that relapses are highly likely.

That's something that would put me off someone as a prospective partner. Of course I'd be supportive if a woman who was already my partner developed depression but in the early days where attachment hasn't really been formed yet, I'd be very wary of getting involved.

Elliott S

Sleepy wrote: »

Dismissive? I'd think my attitude was the exact opposite tbh.

Running for the hills if a potential partner has depression? Definitely not the exact opposite of dismissive. Unless you meant it having someone out of work for years, but you didn't specify that. If you mean depression that leads to long-term unemployment, that's more understandable. If you mean depression whilst the person is managing to hold together their life - yes, I would consider that dismissive.

Sleepy

No, I mean I'm not dismissing depression as something trivial. I'm recognising it for the devastating condition it is.

TBH, I'd think that choosing to overlook the impact that dating a person suffering from it could have on your life would be being dismissive of it.

Permabear

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Elliott S

Permabear wrote: »

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It is hard. And so indiscriminate. A young lady of my acquaintance died a few years ago at the age of 29 of breast cancer. Before her diagnosis, she was the picture of health. She was trim, ate healthy with the odd treat here and there, did lots of exercise. She was positively glowing. She was a making huge strides in her career, a very ruthless industry, and had worked really hard for it. She has to give it all up. Her partner was devoted to her until the end. That is love.

Me? I'd also have considered myself fairly healthy, albeit a bit too fond of sugar. But I was also active and followed a mostly healthy diet and didn't smoke and rarely drank.

My point is, people blithely think that something like this will never affect them because they look after their health and look for the same in a partner. Since my diagnosis, I have noticed people subtly grilling me when we talk about my health "Was it in your family? Any idea why this might have happened?" What they are doing is trying to comfort themselves that this could never happen to them.

So when I hear people being dismissive of ill health in others, I find it quite frustrating. If they were the unfortunate one to be met with ill health, I think their perspective might change. Nobody knows what is around the corner.

Elliott S

Sleepy wrote: »

TBH, I'd think that choosing to overlook the impact that dating a person suffering from it could have on your life would be being dismissive of it.

Choosing not to date someone because of it is dismissive of them. Depression can tough to deal with, I know. But not in all cases, especially if the person is not using you as a counsellor. To not give it a chance is dismissive. I can't imagine not giving a promising person a chance because of it. Especially as clinical depression is often temporary. If it proves too much, you'll know pretty quickly. I recovered from my depression in the first four to five months of my current relationship and I like to think I still brought a lot to the table in spite of it. And I did not use my OH as a shrink. IMO, not even considering a relationship with someone suffering from depression is part of a greater society that still stigmatises it. And, like I said before, anyone can hit by it. Most people won't and I'm not one of these people who thinks everyone will be touched by clinical depression at some point in their life. But you never know if you'll escape it or not.

Like I said, we all have our own deal-breakers. But rarely do people try to paint them as noble. You wouldn't consider it because it's easier on you. That's OK but it's not particularly admirable.

anewme

Permabear wrote: »

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Damn, been wondering why I've had to work so hard since I left secondary school at 18 :pac::pac::pac:

intheclouds

Permabear wrote: »

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Is he?

audi12 wrote: »

I have no issue with a woman who expects not to have to work especially attractive women who are sought after.

It seems to me that he is saying that its ok with him if a woman doesnt want to work, especially attractive women.

So maybe he minds a bit if the woman is ugly?

Perhaps she has to make up for her looks by earning a crust?

anewme

intheclouds wrote: »

So maybe he minds a bit if the woman is ugly?

Does that mean he minds a bit if the woman is ugly
OR
he minds if the woman is a bit ugly in which case she could just work a bit...ie part time:pac::pac:

audi12

intheclouds wrote: »

So an ugly woman should work after marriage?

Im not telling anyone else what to do im saying in my situation if I was with an attractive woman and she said it I wouldn't be marrying and ugly woman anyway.

audi12

intheclouds wrote: »

Is he?



It seems to me that he is saying that its ok with him if a woman doesnt want to work, especially attractive women.

So maybe he minds a bit if the woman is ugly?

Perhaps she has to make up for her looks by earning a crust?

I wouldent marry an ugly women.

audi12

anewme wrote: »

Damn, been wondering why I've had to work so hard since I left secondary school at 18 :pac::pac::pac:

Attractive women are more choosy as they have more options so can pick someone who has a good career etc.

anewme

audi12 wrote: »

Attractive women are more choosy as they have more options so can pick someone who has a good career etc.

Or maybe some would rather work from 18 on than be treated like a prize heifer?

audi12

anewme wrote: »

Or maybe some would rather work from 18 on than be treated like a prize heifer?

Maybe some of them do shur I wish people would read my posts properly for a change

Sleepy

Elliott S wrote: »

Like I said, we all have our own deal-breakers. But rarely do people try to paint them as noble. You wouldn't consider it because it's easier on you. That's OK but it's not particularly admirable.

Nope, not trying to paint it as noble or admirable.

I'm a realist. Dating someone who suffers from depression is likely to lead to a less happy life so I'd avoid it. In the same way I'd have avoided starting a relationship with a women who was materialistic, insecure, religious, jealous, fond of drama, prudish or had a low libido. I'm sure many women would regard me as a bad candidate for a relationship as a slightly overweight, atheist, smoker who's under 6 foot tall, wears glasses etc.

Like you say, we all have our own deal-breakers and they're all ok imo. It may not be "particularly admirable" to not want to risk entering a relationship with someone who suffers from mental health issues but, on the other hand, it's nothing to be looked down upon for either...

DEFTLEFTHAND

Some couples still embrace the traditional gender roles.

Saying the woman doesn't work in this situation is complete BS. Looking after a home and young children is a full time job.

Elliott S

Sleepy wrote: »

It may not be "particularly admirable" to not want to risk entering a relationship with someone who suffers from mental health issues but, on the other hand, it's nothing to be looked down upon for either...

I'd have to disagree there. I would look down on someone for having not even considering it. Adding to the great societal stigmatisation of any kind of mental illness without considering that it's not always that big an issue shows a clear lack of empathy and understanding to me. As for the less happy life thing - lollers. That's not something that can be predicted.

Wibbs

Elliott S wrote: »

I'd have to disagree there. I would look down on someone for having not even considering it. Adding to the great societal stigmatisation of any kind of mental illness without considering that it's not always that big an issue shows a clear lack of empathy and understanding to me.

Or bitter experience. It's a deal breaker for me anyway. Life's too bloody short. People pulling excessive emotionals do my head in in short order, women tend to be more emotional anyway, so why add more fuel to the fire?

As for the less happy life thing - lollers. That's not something that can be predicted.

Predicted? Obviously no. Increasing or decreasing the likelihood of stress? Obviously yes and mental illnesses like depression that go beyond a very short term acute event(which likely isn't even depression in the first place) are an all too obvious stressor to be around on a daily basis, with the attendant and inevitable melt downs from time to time. That has been my direct and indirect experience with the condition(so yes I do have a working up close and personal understanding of it).

Sure there are different levels and of course I have sympathy for those who suffer from it, but in a partner give me someone with the happy gene every single time.

As for "the great societal stigmatisation" involved? Mental illness has become a sacred cow and these days it's damned near a badge of honour and group belonging to say you suffer from a mental illness, with new ones being added on a near daily basis(with the attendant medicalisation of same). The West has become near mental illness hypochondriacs of late with a massive rise in the reporting of same, far above that expected with better diagnostics too.

My opinion anyway. Oh and my choice too. I don't see why it's a choice that affects others.

Eric Cartman

Anxiety , OCD, Depression, even really low self esteem or being a pessimist - I'm just done with. As Wibbs said, lives too short. I'm not here to fix someone or build them back up or be their carer straight off the bat.

Now I wouldn't be leaving someone I was with for years for starting to suffer depression, but I would have a very firm view on either they do everything in their power to get professional help, or I'm out.

zcorpian88

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anxiety , OCD, Depression, even really low self esteem or being a pessimist - I'm just done with. As Wibbs said, lives too short. I'm not here to fix someone or build them back up or be their carer straight off the bat.

Now I wouldn't be leaving someone I was with for years for starting to suffer depression, but I would have a very firm view on either they do everything in their power to get professional help, or I'm out.

Went out with a woman who had anxiety and depression for nearly two years myself, she was incredibly intelligent and good at her job but a workaholic which was one of the reasons the relationship ended.

But her condition was also very mentally taxing on myself and I did break myself trying to help her in any bad spells she had, when she had her good days she was great but when she was in her bad days, the bad days would linger for what would seem like forever and everything mounted up between her work and her work problems which would set her depression off and I couldn't really get what I wanted out of the relationship. First thing in the morning she'd reach for a fistful of tablets which it took me a while to get used to, only thing I'd ever take is a Nurofen, she did she a shrink but to be honest I don't think she was helping her a great deal.

Eventually between her work routine and her condition which really pushed me away in the last few weeks and her feelings on wanting children someday (thought she might change her mind later) I completely burned out and ended it, I suffered a lot from that break-up as I had high hopes for it, but nothing was changing or moving forward. It was just stagnant and I got incredibly frustrated.

Elliott S

Wibbs wrote: »

As for "the great societal stigmatisation" involved? Mental illness has become a sacred cow and these days it's damned near a badge of honour and group belonging to say you suffer from a mental illness, with new ones being added on a near daily basis(with the attendant medicalisation of same).

Urgh, gawd. A badge of honour. Sigh. What an insult to all the people who see it as anything but.

And no, it doesn't affect others at all. Good for you.

Wanderer78

being with somebody with mental health issues is extremely difficult, particularly when they dont want or are simply unable to help themselves. unfortunately ive had to walk away in the past. ive no regrets in doing so.

mzungu

Elliott S wrote: »

I'd have to disagree there. I would look down on someone for having not even considering it. Adding to the great societal stigmatisation of any kind of mental illness without considering that it's not always that big an issue shows a clear lack of empathy and understanding to me. As for the less happy life thing - lollers. That's not something that can be predicted.

A bit harsh, no? We all want different things from life, and everybody has their own checklist of what they look for in a potential partner. If somebody does not wish to date somebody with a mental illness, then that is their choice and they are quite entitled to it.

Elliott S

Wanderer78 wrote: »

being with somebody with mental health issues is extremely difficult, particularly when they dont want or are simply unable to help themselves. unfortunately ive had to walk away in the past. ive no regrets in doing so.

Right, but not all people with mental health issues don't want to help themselves. Some are working on it and succeed. So to blanket disregard people is callous. As for referring to it as a badge of honour. Mother of janey. To some maybe but just because someone is open about having some mental health issues doesn't mean they are proud of it.

Elliott S

mzungu wrote: »

A bit harsh, no? We all want different things from life, and everybody has their own checklist of what they look for in a potential partner. If somebody does not wish to date somebody with a mental illness, then that is their choice and they are quite entitled to it.

I don't think it's harsh. People are indeed entitled to rule out whoever they wish. Others are entitled to their own views on those parameters.

Wanderer78

Elliott S wrote: »

Right, but not all people with mental health issues don't want to help themselves. Some are working on it and succeed. So to blanket disregard people is callous.

good point, i use to work with two lads with fairly serious mental health issues. both use to do as much as they could in regards helping themselves, one in particular is a model of how to do it, unfortunately the other chaps problems got the better of him. he died a couple of weeks ago from a massive heart attack, i personally think it was his struggles with his mental health issues that really caused it. it was very sad to see his wife and kids at the funeral, they must have had a very difficult time with him over the years.

La.de.da

How would you even approach that though in a potential dating situation? Do you ask outright ....how's your mental health?

Wanderer78

La.de.da wrote: »

How would you even approach that though in a potential dating situation? Do you ask outright ....how's your mental health?

its a very good point, some are very open about it and some are not. some will tell you upfront and others wont. its a difficult one to approach

Elliott S

La.de.da wrote: »

How would you even approach that though in a potential dating situation? Do you ask outright ....how's your mental health?

It probably wouldn't even come up for the first few weeks. Unless of course people are accessorising with it. :rolleyes:

Wanderer78

Elliott S wrote: »

It probably wouldn't even come up for the first few weeks.

more than likely but ive been on dates where it has come up almost straightaway

Wibbs

La.de.da wrote: »

How would you even approach that though in a potential dating situation? Do you ask outright ....how's your mental health?

I have found it tends to be generally spottable after a few meetings. Subtle ways people react to different things and stimuli. If you're going out with someone for any length of time it should be easy enough to spot. That said that could be because I do have a fair amount of previous with this stuff. I certainly didn't spot obvious red flags when I was younger.. Depends on the particular condition and severity of course. Some personality disorders can be quite stealth and can sneak up on you.

Elliott S wrote:

Unless of course people are accessorising with it. :rolleyes:

Dunno why the roll eyes. It's hardly deniable that one can barely turn on the radio, TV or interwebs without someone going on about mental illness and acceptance of same and yes it is pretty clear that a fair number out there are viewing it as a self defining thing and sharing that all the bloody time. Hell, there's even fashion regarding treatments. What's the latest fad? "mindfulness". Until the next fad comes along of course. There's a shítload of well hidden quackery in that game. Sure sign of that is we've never had so many therapies and therapists and avenues of help yet the rate of illness is going up not down. Which kinda goes against logic and previous medical experience.

Wanderer78

Wibbs wrote: »

Sure sign of that is we've never had so many therapies and therapists and avenues of help yet the rate of illness is going up not down. Which kinda goes against logic and previous medical experience.

i have my own ideas of why mental health issues are on the rise but this isnt the forum to discuss it. it is worrying to watch these trends though

Elliott S

Wibbs wrote: »

Dunno why the roll eyes. It's hardly deniable that one can barely turn on the radio, TV or interwebs without someone going on about mental illness and acceptance of same and yes it is pretty clear that a fair number out there are viewing it as a self defining thing and sharing that all the bloody time. Hell, there's even fashion regarding treatments. What's the latest fad? "mindfulness". Until the next fad comes along of course. There's a shítload of well hidden quackery in that game. Sure sign of that is we've never had so many therapies and therapists and avenues of help yet the rate of illness is going up not down. Which kinda goes against logic and previous medical experience.

Well, I personally don't rate mindfulness at all. It seems you have decided that a small amount of attention-seekers are representative of people with mental health issues. It's reactionary nonsense. And talking about it publically does not always mean you fall into the above category. For too long, it was completely hushed up. How do you propose that changes without people talking about it? I'm sorry, Wibbs, but you are coming across dreadfully ignorant here.