Is on-street parking a right?

Chuchote

Should people be entitled to park their cars on public streets - either in suburbs or in city centres? After all, what gives one the right to store one's private property on a publicly-owned street?

savagethegoat

it isn't an entitlement.

Chuchote

i was wandering around Dun Laoghaire and Sandycove the other day, and on some roads huge cars were parked along both sides of the street (despite most houses having capacious gardens). Only one car could get along the street at a time. What a waste of space! (My personal opinion.)

Avatar MIA

Chuchote wrote: »

Should people be entitled to park their cars on public streets - either in suburbs or in city centres? After all, what gives one the right to store one's private property on a publicly-owned street?

I presume you mean house owners that don't have driveways and front onto the road.

Well, they are the community, and owning a car is pretty much a basic right these days.

Chuchote

Car owners are part of the community; so are bus users, pedestrians and cyclists. One group's rights shouldn't subsume others', imho.

Avatar MIA

Chuchote wrote: »

Car owners are part of the community; so are bus users, pedestrians and cyclists. One group's rights shouldn't subsume others', imho.

Bus users, pedestrians and cyclists are going to benefit from their family having a car.

You're not really explaining yourself very well. If this is something that's important enough for you to raise you might want to go into more detail as to what exactly concerns you.

ml100

Chuchote wrote: »

Car owners are part of the community; so are bus users, pedestrians and cyclists. One group's rights shouldn't subsume others', imho.

Unlike bus users and pedestrians car owners are paying for that right in the form of road tax and vrt!

Shint0

A lot of street side buildings and houses especially older period properties in cities and towns were built before car ownership was commonplace and is not possible to adapt them now especially if some of the streets are not particularly wide. So we are stuck with a design legacy and the requirements of residents back then no longer being appicable now.

Although if you look at the current ongoing thread here involving selfish parking from neighbours with on-street parking that situation might have been avoided if it had been taken into account during the planning stage that most households now include two car ownership.

Chuchote

ml100 wrote: »

Unlike bus users and pedestrians car owners are paying for that right in the form of road tax and vrt!

There is no road tax. Car owners pay a carbon tax to subsidise their pollution.

Yes, there are buildings that were built before cars and without any parking space, but mostly they're in areas that are easily navigable by cycle or public transport.

We still have the problem of private car owners using public space for storing their private vehicles.

Avatar MIA

Chuchote wrote: »

There is no road tax. Car owners pay a carbon tax to subsidise their pollution.

What does "subsidise their pollution" mean?

Motor tax has been around for decades. It used to be based on engine size then on CO2 emissions. It's an environment factor, but it's simply a tax.

Chuchote

Avatar MIA wrote: »

What does "subsidise their pollution" mean?

Motor tax has been around for decades. It used to be based on engine size then on CO2 emissions. It's an environment factor, but it's simply a tax.

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/faqs_co2_en.pdf

How will the level of CO2 be known?
Before a new model is put on sale in Europe, it must undergo a series of tests to ensure that it has achieved approved standards regarding safety, environmental impact, etc. This process is called Type Approval and each car achieving the approved standards is issued with a Certificate of Conformity.
Among the details included on the Certificate of Conformitry is the level of CO2 emissions of the car. This is the information that will be used for taxation purposes for both vehicle registration tax (VRT) and motor tax.
This CO2 rating will be captured initially by the Revenue Commissioners at vehicle registration tax stage and passed on to the national vehicle file for use in connection with the administration of the motor tax system.

Shint0

Chuchote wrote: »

We still have the problem of private car owners using public space for storing their private vehicles.

Is it an issue that non-car owners feel they are being inconvenienced and having to subsidise the maintenance of a facility they don't use because that argument can be applied across society to a wide range of issues. We are all subsidising various facilities in some shape or form that we might never benefit from but that's how a democratic society works.

Chuchote

Shint0 wrote: »

Is it an issue that non-car owners feel they are being inconvenienced and having to subsidise the maintenance of a facility they don't use because that argument can be applied across society to a wide range of issues. We are all subsidising various facilities in some shape or form that we might never benefit from but that's how a democratic society works.

I absolutely agree.

But… the level of subsidisation that allows one-third of street surface to be covered in privately owned vehicles, that's kind of enormous.

Nervous Wreck

Chuchote wrote: »

Should people be entitled to park their cars on public streets - either in suburbs or in city centres? After all, what gives one the right to store one's private property on a publicly-owned street?

The government does, obviously.

Avatar MIA

Chuchote wrote: »

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/pdf/faqs_co2_en.pdf

You are the laziest poster I've come across on boards for a long time. How is that in anyway an appropriate response to my post?

ted1

Chuchote wrote: »

i was wandering around Dun Laoghaire and Sandycove the other day, and on some roads huge cars were parked along both sides of the street (despite most houses having capacious gardens). Only one car could get along the street at a time. What a waste of space! (My personal opinion.)

Lots of the houses can't get planning for off street parking as the properties are protected. If they did the road would be an enterance and couldn't be used anyway

Big Bag of Chips

If there are no parking restrictions in place on a particular street, then yes, any person has a right to park there. Residential areas that have a pay and display area are even given permits from the local authority to park without having to pay.

So yes, people have a right to park on public roads.

Parking does not equal storing, btw!

Chuchote

ted1 wrote: »

Lots of the houses can't get planning for off street parking as the properties are protected. If they did the road would be an enterance and couldn't be used anyway

Surprising thought, as there are lots of houses there with offstreet parking.

Avatar MIA

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Residential areas that have a pay and display area are even given permits from the local authority to park without having to pay.

And it will definitely have been factored into the purchase price of the property and therefore paid for (to the seller and state, extra stamp duty).

savagethegoat

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

If there are no parking restrictions in place on a particular street, then yes, any person has a right to park there. Residential areas that have a pay and display area are even given permits from the local authority to park without having to pay.

So yes, people have a right to park on public roads.

Parking does not equal storing, btw!

no you don't have a right to park, you can be booked for obstruction if you park somewhere ill-advised. If you had a right to park, the Council would not have the right to charge.

Chuchote

Avatar MIA wrote: »

And it will definitely have been factored into the purchase price of the property and therefore paid for (to the seller and state, extra stamp duty).

Oh, I don't know about that. When I lived in Sandycove a lot of people used the excellent public transport - Dart and buses.

Avatar MIA

Chuchote wrote: »

Surprising thought, as there are lots of houses there with offstreet parking.

One the one hand you're talking in generalisations, but you obviously have a specific area in mind.

Avatar MIA

Chuchote wrote: »

Oh, I don't know about that. When I lived in Sandycove a lot of people used the excellent public transport - Dart and buses.

I'm sure they did, as they had the option. But, the vast majority of those people also had a car they could avail of when the public transport didn't suit.

Chuchote

Avatar MIA wrote: »

One the one hand you're talking in generalisations, but you obviously have a specific area in mind.

No, just replying to comments that seemed to refer to Sandycove, which I'd cited as an example.

4ensic15

The Road Traffic Act 1961 (as amended) allows parking and makes provision for the making of regulations controlling it. A person can park legally anywhere parking is not banned provided they do so in the manner prescribed.
Pay any fee, remain within 300mm of the footpath, not block an entrance etc.
The council can, if it is minded ban parking on a road or section of a road if it thinks it necessary in the interests of traffic management.

Kat1170

Chuchote wrote: »

We still have the problem of private car owners using public space for storing their private vehicles.

Like those bicycle parking bays that one sees, where people store their private property in public places. Yeah, I totally agree with you.

Chuchote

Kat1170 wrote: »

Like those bicycle parking bays that one sees, where people store their private property in public places. Yeah, I totally agree with you.

We could ban both

kona

What the **** goes on in people's heads

Chuchote

kona wrote: »

What the **** goes on in people's heads

Looking at other countries and how they do things! I was looking at Google satellite map of Tokyo, wondering why the streets looked so odd - then I realised, no on-street parking where I was looking. They use their streets for driving, not storage.

moleyv

There are some local authorities considering new build residential developments without parking that will also not be eligible for permit on street parking.

Peoples circumstances can change over night, where before they never saw a need for a car, and suddenly need one. Work, children etc. So I'm not sure I agree with that.

Chuchote

moleyv wrote: »

There are some local authorities considering new build residential developments without parking that will also not be eligible for permit on street parking.

Peoples circumstances can change over night, where before they never saw a need for a car, and suddenly need one. Work, children etc. So I'm not sure I agree with that.

The Dutch seem to manage.

EazyD

Chuchote wrote: »

Looking at other countries and how they do things! I was looking at Google satellite map of Tokyo, wondering why the streets looked so odd - then I realised, no on-street parking where I was looking. They use their streets for driving, not storage.

Tokyo is a mega city, Dublin is not. As bad as we think congestion and traffic are here, there is literally no comparison.

Allinall

Chuchote wrote: »

Looking at other countries and how they do things! I was looking at Google satellite map of Tokyo, wondering why the streets looked so odd - then I realised, no on-street parking where I was looking. They use their streets for driving, not storage.

People sleep in drawers in Tokyo.

moleyv

Chuchote wrote:

The Dutch seem to manage.

Not every culture or nation does everything the same.

There are enough restrictions on getting a parking permit, a total preclusion is not something I agree with.

Inner city/town, I would agree with, especially on more major routes. Outer which is the context of the policies I mentioned, not a hope.

TheQuietFella

Chuchote wrote: »

Should people be entitled to park their cars on public streets - either in suburbs or in city centres? After all, what gives one the right to store one's private property on a publicly-owned street?

In my view no, they shouldn't unless of course there is a designated area for parking. I think that if you have a car you park it on your property.
With an increase in the amount of traffic on our roads its both a nuisance and safety issue negotiating your way around them at the best of times.

Marcusm

Chuchote wrote: »

Looking at other countries and how they do things! I was looking at Google satellite map of Tokyo, wondering why the streets looked so odd - then I realised, no on-street parking where I was looking. They use their streets for driving, not storage.

The denizens of Tokyo benefit from large underground parking spaces facilitated by the carpet bombing of the city by dedicated US urban planners in the mid 1940s.

Seriously, the issues you describe are, for that local area, best raised with DLRCoCo which has the entitlement to place parallel stripes of yellow paint on the road to ensure sufficient space exists for cars to pass. Of course, applying reductio ad absurdum, if the need for car could be reduced, perhaps the roads could be removed too!

Del2005

There is no right to parking on the road, as there is no right to drive as it's a privilege, you are allowed to park on the road once the vehicle is road legal and there are no other restrictions in place.

There's people parking their cars on the road when the driveway is clear, there's cyclists using the footpath, there's groups of people walking slowly blocking the footpath. There's nothing can be done about it.

Avatar MIA

Chuchote wrote: »

The Dutch seem to manage.

You just mentioned the one European exception that proves the rule.

What's the Netherlands famous for again? Hmmm, we could possibly flatten Dublin. Hmmm. You could be onto something. :pac:

savagethegoat

Del2005 wrote: »

There is no right to parking on the road, as there is no right to drive as it's a privilege, you are allowed to park on the road once the vehicle is road legal and there are no other restrictions in place.

There's people parking their cars on the road when the driveway is clear, there's cyclists using the footpath, there's groups of people walking slowly blocking the footpath. There's nothing can be done about it.

Yes , if parking was a right, the Council couldn't come along and stick double yellers outside your gaff .

Chuchote

Avatar MIA wrote: »

You just mentioned the one European exception that proves the rule.

What's the Netherlands famous for again? Hmmm, we could possibly flatten Dublin. Hmmm. You could be onto something. :pac:

Actually, Amsterdam isn't that much flatter than Dublin. And while we're mentioning the one exception that proves the rule, maybe we could add in Copenhagen, Nuremberg, Berlin…

Atlantic Dawn

2 permanent car parking spaces and one visitor space should be a right for all newly built properties as a condition of planning.

Chuchote

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

2 permanent car parking spaces and one visitor space should be a right for all newly built properties as a condition of planning.

With an annual rental for each?

Atlantic Dawn

Chuchote wrote: »

With an annual rental for each?

No, covered by the current planning levy of tens of thousands when you build a house/apartment and the annual motor and property taxes.

Chuchote

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

No, covered by the current planning levy of tens of thousands when you build a house/apartment and the annual motor and property taxes.

Mm. So someone who wouldn't use these parking spaces would get money back?

frozenfrozen

I think parking for new builds should be a right. That's the way the world is now.

However, people parking on either side of the street, causing the road to become nearly less than 1 lane wide, is not right. Or instances like this https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.9338378,-8.565249,3a,75y,80.83h,83.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbBX3i_TuQJurPLNnV7BDFw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1 sorry guys but you're **** out of luck those houses do not have parking spaces. Havoc when there's any kind of high level of traffic. Only example I could think of, off the top of my head

There are a few houses on my road, who have big back gardens, and front gardens, and garages, and driveways, and they still park their car outside their gate just on the side of the road. I'd nearly go take a picture only I wouldn't like to start another neighbour parking fiasco but at the moment one house has two cars out in front, on the road, on a bend, and around the corner a house on the other side has a car out, so you have to weave between them as you're going around a bend. Needlessly dangerous.

Del2005

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

2 permanent car parking spaces and one visitor space should be a right for all newly built properties as a condition of planning.

And where do we get the space for all this? Underground is expensive to build and maintain. We've already got enough urban sprawl and one off houses ruining our countryside, let try and save the little bit that's left.

Chuchote

Del2005 wrote: »

And where do we get the space for all this? Underground is expensive to build and maintain. We've already got enough urban sprawl and one off houses ruining our countryside, let try and save the little bit that's left.

Part of this is the way we use cars. In other European countries people are using car pooling more and more; here people drive along blithely all on their own in a car.