Jewish Graves Vandalised in Belfast

steddyeddy

getzls wrote: »

Which the Catholic Church oppose.

Hmm I think you'll find both sides oppose.

Ciaran_B

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Why does the image of toothless knuckle-scrappers in Celtic jerseys proclaiming "unlike Rangers, we have always been an inclusive club..." pop into my head while reading about this sickening event.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0828/812457-jewish-graves-belfast/

Because in your own way you're as bigoted as the people who did this.

horsebox1977

A nice area covered in Union jacks.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/up-to-eight-hate-incidents-reported-to-police-daily-psni-figures-reveal-35007284.html

A tolerant bunch them uns are.

Lingua Franca

getzls wrote: »

Just do a Google, damage to War Graves in Belfast to see who really does the destruction.
Also have a wee look at the story of the damage done to the memorial or the 3 Scottish Soldiers that were murdered.

Or you could google "Republican graves attacked" for much more recent, up to date stories.

You can also look up one Ricky Millar who;

attends World War I commemorations with the swastika tattoo on his neck in plain sight, although the SS tattoo on his arm is covered up (You'll find him telling the papers he regrets his tattoos, but that SS one was done last winter).

posts pics of himself wearing a poppy and giving Nazi salutes at Milltown cemetery on social media bragging that he pissed and shat on various republican's graves

justifies his actions by making similar claims to yourself.

Or you could always just accept that there are scumbags on both sides and stop playing the whattaboutery game.

For the record, these are the sort of guys who consider that graveyard their stomping ground: https://youtu.be/mrhzsHiJGHE?t=2m3s

They set a tree on fire around lunchtime on a weekday when I was working there a couple of weeks ago. They've smashed up Catholic and Protestant and even Polish graves, which didn't lead to similar outrage on behalf of the Poles: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-27114868 They'll smash up whatever they see fit to smash, as no one is stopping them.

They are hoods, thugs, glue sniffers and other assorted junkies, NEETs, street drinkers and street pishers.

Mystery solved, and nary a celtic shirt nor union jack in sight.

tomofson

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Eh, Celtic shinbots waving hamas flags...like CONSTANTLY.

The loyalist tend to pro Zionist.

Honestly is your world view really that infantile and archaic? Things up north be different. Even the BNP is pro Isreal.

I am pro Isreal myself and I hate the BNP and Orange Order.

Our lives and society are more complex than either daily mail and Guardian editorials my friend.

Hamas don't have a flag, don't go mistaking a Palestinian flag for a Hamas flag, even hardcore zionists have moved past that dumb position.

Strange that you are pro Israel yet hate the Orange Order because the similarities between the two are astonishing...

tomofson

Think I'll just leave this here as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avnLO3lLVL4

Wigglepuppy

To be fair, there is a Hamas flag.

Grayson

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

To be fair, there is a Hamas flag.

Everyone has a flag nowadays. Sports teams, charities, terrorist groups.

Atoms for Peace

It's green with white squiggles on it.

A Little Pony

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

Christ all mighty,the lack of self awareness in some people is breath taking

When those dimwits fly Israeli flags they probably have no idea what it means to Israelis or Jews - they fly them because them'uns fly the Palestinian flag.

The ones who are able to do simple jigsaws are probably enamoured by the Israeli state's treatment of Palestinians/Arabs and identify with the colonial/settler aspect of Israel.

The poor fools are blissfully unaware that they're the Arabs of Ireland and their UVF controlled ghettos are the West Bank cantons of the future.

Ulster Protestants have more in common with the Jews of Israel than Islamic Palestine. I will personally always support Israel. I love Jewish history.

A Little Pony

rjpf1980 wrote: »

You need to be an absolute degenerate to desecrate a grave.

Republicans do it all the time to graves of Ulster patriots and memorials.

A Little Pony

tomofson wrote: »

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Eh, Celtic shinbots waving hamas flags...like CONSTANTLY.

The loyalist tend to pro Zionist.

Honestly is your world view really that infantile and archaic? Things up north be different. Even the BNP is pro Isreal.

I am pro Isreal myself and I hate the BNP and Orange Order.

Our lives and society are more complex than either daily mail and Guardian editorials my friend.

Hamas don't have a flag, don't go mistaking a Palestinian flag for a Hamas flag, even hardcore zionists have moved past that dumb position.

Strange that you are pro Israel yet hate the Orange Order because the similarities between the two are astonishing...

The links between Ulster Protestants and Israel is very apparent if you look into the history. Our flag (the Ulster banner) has resemblances to the Israeli flag.

A Little Pony

LordSutch wrote: »

Anyone mentioned empire, the British, or colonies yet?

Let them. Palestine is DEAD and will never become a state. Israel has the right to exist sorely down to the holocaust alone. That for me is enough to justify Israel.

Wigglepuppy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Ulster Protestants have more in common with the Jews of Israel than Islamic Palestine.

Not all Ulster Protestants or all Jews of Israel by a long shot, but yes, there are those Ulster Protestants and Jews of Israel who enjoy treating their neighbours like dirt.

I will personally always support Israel. I love Jewish history.

Because nationalists support Palestine so you gotta ensure to do the opposite.

I don't believe this "I love Jewish history" stuff for a second.

A Little Pony

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Ulster Protestants have more in common with the Jews of Israel than Islamic Palestine.

Not all Ulster Protestants or all Jews of Israel by a long shot, but yes, there are those Ulster Protestants and Jews of Israel who enjoy treating their neighbours like dirt.

I will personally always support Israel. I love Jewish history.

Because nationalists support Palestine so you gotta ensure to do the opposite.

I don't believe this "I love Jewish history" stuff for a second.

This is a battle you can't win. Israel is going nowhere and with the help of Jewish bankers in America and the US government Palestine is doomed. Gaza won't exist in 20 years time. Once the Jewish settlers have moved in.

Wigglepuppy

I don't have a problem with Israel or decent Israelis. I do have a problem with Hamas and I understand Israel needs to defend itself.

However I also have a problem with how some Israelis treat innocent Palestinians.

It's not difficult to see the wrongdoings by both, but some folks have to be entrenched in one "side" and will not dare to admit wrongdoing even when it's right in front of them. All very infantile really.

Widdershins

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

I don't have a problem with Israel or decent Israelis. I do have a problem with Hamas and I understand Israel needs to defend itself.

However I also have a problem with how some Israelis treat innocent Palestinians.

It's not difficult to see the wrongdoings by both, but some folks have to be entrenched in one "side" and will not dare to admit wrongdoing even when it's right in front of them. All very infantile really.

Well said! 'Tis hard to discuss in a balanced way though, because people are too often ready to jump on the first admission of a failing and go to town on it, and that quickly drags everything out of balance.

...__...

I'm Sorry but after 4 days of following this thread I have to finally step in.

Some of the pure horse sh it that is being said in this thread is really delusional.

Israel has about as much in common as ulster protestants as I have with the Mao Tse Tsung.
Anyone who knows History and cant see the similarities between Indigenous Irish and Indigenous Israelis needs glasses.
There are many flags around the world with Stars on them That doesn't make it anything in common with Israel.
And Just because Loyalists hang a few flags around Belfast doesn't make them brothers and sisters.

In fact it makes them pathetic same goes for the nonsense that republicans and Palestinians are akin to one another.
Republicans are far too busy milking the money from crime than to really care for a genuine reconciliation.
I know many Palestinians and all they want is to live a nice quiet life not continue the revolution bankroll that comes from other Arab countries.

The only real reason Sinn Fein ever supported them is because Gadhafi gave them money and guns.

If any Republican or Loyalist thinks they have some affiliation to either side of the middle east conflict then they need to take a long hard look at themselves there part of the reason that and our own conflict is still ongoing. Sure the bombs might not be going off but the sectarianism is still rampant in the north. Just look at the video Thomofsun posted another stupid bigoted loyalist "white Protestant" well your welcome to them. And I'm sure we can all find videos of Republicans doing similar come on don't act like it doesn't happen. It happens here there In Israel and Palestine, America and France.
People call Israel an apartheid country well if it is then France must be much worse Israel lets women wear what they want on the beach and doesn't throw the gay community off the roofs of buildings like Hamas.
Ok before we all get into it I know there is more going on than just that.

But it really sickens me when I see this comparison bull that's going on I'm a Zionist and Ill say it a slightly right wing one after seeing some of the things Hamas has done. And I'm also Irish person who supports a united Ireland. There's a lot of us around and trying to do a Sinn Fein tactic of shoving your opinion down my neck will not change it.

But hey at least I have the balls to stand up and say it I don't pretend I care about Palestinians to wave a Sinn Fein flag behind my back.
Nor do I support any Loyalist who says they support Israel "just because" I'm my mind there both just as dumb as each other.

The desecration of the graves was sickening just as sickening as that of the little traveller boy in Dublin the week before. no more no less.
It was a disgusting act.

Everyone has a suspicion it was Republicans but it could have been Loyalists or Ulster Muslims or the local ISIS.
The only ones not pointing fingers are the Jewish community why because they have gone through this and much worse before.

All I see in this thread is IRA vs UVF being played out in a swings and roundabouts way.

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

Palestine is doomed.

You should identify with the Palestinians really because norniron's union with Britain is doomed too in the long run.

A Little Pony

A Little Pony wrote: »

When anti Israel talk is condoned from Republicans this is what happens. Jewish people are seen as animals by them and thus these thugs don't see them as human beings.

Ah this old Zionist tactic from the gutter thugs of the internet: criticise the Israeli colonial occupation, mass expulsion of millions of Palestinians and state terrorism on a mind-blowing Tibetan scale and you must be portrayed as criticising the Jewish religion/being anti-Semitic.

You must have great, great difficulty with Jews like Noam Chomsky who, having lived in a Kibbutz, returned hugely disillusioned at the way Zionists have hijacked his peace-loving religion for their fundamentalist hate-filled oppression of the Palestinian people.

A Little Pony

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Palestine is doomed.

You should identify with the Palestinians really because norniron's union with Britain is doomed too in the long run

So you agree with me then.

A Little Pony

Deleted User wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

When anti Israel talk is condoned from Republicans this is what happens. Jewish people are seen as animals by them and thus these thugs don't see them as human beings.

Ah this old Zionist tactic from the gutter thugs of the internet: criticise the Israeli colonial occupation, mass expulsion of millions of Palestinians and state terrorism on a mind-blowing Tibetan scale and you must be portrayed as criticising the Jewish religion/being anti-Semitic.

You must have great, great difficulty with Jews like Noam Chomsky who, having lived in a Kibbutz, returned hugely disillusioned at the way Zionists have hijacked his peace-loving religion for their fundamentalist hate-filled oppression of the Palestinian people.

At least Israel hasn't nuked Palestine. Why any democrat would support Islam to destroy Israel is bizarre.

Junkyard Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

You must have great, great difficulty with Jews like Noam Chomsky

and Norman Finkelstein, Naomi Klein, B'tselem in Israel and so on.

Unionism identifies not with Israel or Jews but with the Israeli state's extreme nationalism and its treatment of Palestinians and Arabs. If Jewish refugees were flooding into union/loyalist areas they'd be subject to the same hate-crimes as any other 'alien' group. My Little Pony, and those like him, wish dearly that the British would have 'West Banked' Belfast west and the Bogside of Derry and 'Gazaed' South Armagh instead of reaching an agreement with Irish Nationalists.

Many unionists would love to have maintained thier sectarian state and look wistfully at Israel and think 'if only we could have had it like that'. Instead unionists have a British Government who has assured them they're out-the-gap as soon as +50% decide they want out. **** knows why they identify with Zionism when they're the Palestinians on this island.

Widdershins

Deleted User wrote: »

You must have great, great difficulty with Jews like Noam Chomsky .

I'm no fan. (Finkelstein, either)


http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/michael-j-totten/noam-chomsky-last-totalitarian

Wigglepuppy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Why any democrat would support Islam to destroy Israel is bizarre.

Agreed totally.

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

So you agree with me then.

No. Palestine is more than just a potential state. The Palestinians are a nation of people, whether they have a state or not, just like the Jews were for centuries.

Widdershins

Well, the people whose graves were desecrated had nothing to do with any of this subject of conversation ^

Wigglepuppy

...__... wrote: »

Israel has about as much in common as ulster protestants as I have with the Mao Tse Tsung.

Yup.

There are many flags around the world with Stars on them That doesn't make it anything in common with Israel.
And Just because Loyalists hang a few flags around Belfast doesn't make them brothers and sisters.

Indeed. They hang those flags for one reason only - because nationalists support Palestine.
I don't think SF support Palestine just because of Gadhafi though, I do think nationalists and republicans in the North feel an affinity after the obscene treatment of their communities by the security forces and loyalist paramilitaries (supported by Paisley, Robinson, McCrea). It may not be a very profound affinity and there are flaws with it, especially when violence by Hamas is supported, but I can see where the non violent support of non violent Palestinians comes from.

Sure the bombs might not be going off but the sectarianism is still rampant in the north. Just look at the video Thomofsun posted another stupid bigoted loyalist "white Protestant" well your welcome to them. And I'm sure we can all find videos of Republicans doing similar come on don't act like it doesn't happen.

I know it's not a competition but loyalists are demonstrably far worse for bigotry - not just towards nationalists, but towards anyone.

...__...

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

Yup.

I know it's not a competition but loyalists are demonstrably far worse for bigotry - not just towards nationalists, but towards anyone.

The recent attacks on non nationals (God that's ironic isn't it about the north)
But I mean the Chinese and east European families by Loyalists can attest to that.
But Republicans hold a special venom for Israel one which is only borne from hate of Loyalists

Wigglepuppy

...__... wrote: »

But Republicans hold a special venom for Israel one which is only borne from hate of Loyalists

They're not looking at the bigger picture (all of those Israelis who are peaceful, the fact Israel is a democracy, the campaign of terror from Hamas, Israel's right to defend itself) but innocent Palestinians can get treated appallingly by the Israeli state/army - this is well documented in fairness.

...__...

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

They're not looking at the bigger picture (all of those Israelis who are peaceful, the fact Israel is a democracy, the campaign of terror from Hamas, Israel's right to defend itself) but innocent Palestinians can get treated appallingly by the Israeli state/army - this is well documented in fairness.

Completely agree there are bad on both sides and it will take two very brave men to bring an end to the conflict. We all know what happened to the last Israeli Leader who tried.
Perhaps with our sane attitude there is hope for the north and the middle east after all.
But as long as there are fanatics on all sides I don't see much hope.

getzls

Lingua Franca wrote: »

getzls wrote: »

Just do a Google, damage to War Graves in Belfast to see who really does the destruction.
Also have a wee look at the story of the damage done to the memorial or the 3 Scottish Soldiers that were murdered.

Or you could google "Republican graves attacked" for much more recent, up to date stories.

You can also look up one Ricky Millar who;

attends World War I commemorations with the swastika tattoo on his neck in plain sight, although the SS tattoo on his arm is covered up (You'll find him telling the papers he regrets his tattoos, but that SS one was done last winter).

posts pics of himself wearing a poppy and giving Nazi salutes at Milltown cemetery on social media bragging that he pissed and shat on various republican's graves

justifies his actions by making similar claims to yourself.

Or you could always just accept that there are scumbags on both sides and stop playing the whattaboutery game.

For the record, these are the sort of guys who consider that graveyard their stomping ground: https://youtu.be/mrhzsHiJGHE?t=2m3s

They set a tree on fire around lunchtime on a weekday when I was working there a couple of weeks ago. They've smashed up Catholic and Protestant and even Polish graves, which didn't lead to similar outrage on behalf of the Poles: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-27114868 They'll smash up whatever they see fit to smash, as no one is stopping them.

They are hoods, thugs, glue sniffers and other assorted junkies, NEETs, street drinkers and street pishers.

Mystery solved, and nary a celtic shirt nor union jack in sight.

I don't need to look it up, I know about it.
I see you posted a link showing more Republican hate at the same cemetery.
Really if anyone thinks a group of Prods run havoc in the City Cemetery they need their bump felt.
At the height of the Troubles the City was a no go area for Protestants who wanted to visit graves.
Also the Council had to remove War dead headstones as they were constantly being damaged.

getzls

A Little Pony wrote: »

LordSutch wrote: »

Anyone mentioned empire, the British, or colonies yet?

Let them. Palestine is DEAD and will never become a state. Israel has the right to exist sorely down to the holocaust alone. That for me is enough to justify Israel.

The Palestinian's don't a Palestinian state without the destruction of Israel.
They want the land of Israel and the deaths of every man woman and Israeli child.

bilston

For what it's worth the cemetery is on the Falls Rd. It doesn't necessarily mean it was Republicans involved, or anyone with deeply felt anti Semetic or anti Israeli beliefs, if anything it is more likely to have been drunken youths just being d**** of the highest order.

getzls

bilston wrote: »

For what it's worth the cemetery is on the Falls Rd. It doesn't necessarily mean it was Republicans involved, or anyone with deeply felt anti Semetic or anti Israeli beliefs, if anything it is more likely to have been drunken youths just being d**** of the highest order.

Yes I agree though they just happened to be dick heads of the Roman Catholic faith dick heads.
Get real!!

Wigglepuppy

getzls wrote: »

The Palestinian's don't a Palestinian state without the destruction of Israel.
They want the land of Israel and the deaths of every man woman and Israeli child.

Yeah every single Palestinian, even the kids, wants that.

getzls

Wigglepuppy wrote: »

getzls wrote: »

The Palestinian's don't a Palestinian state without the destruction of Israel.
They want the land of Israel and the deaths of every man woman and Israeli child.

Yeah every single Palestinian, even the kids, wants that.

They are taught that. Their Prophet commands it according to the Koran.

Atoms for Peace

getzls wrote: »

They are taught that. Their Prophet commands it according to the Koran.

The jews are people of the book according to the prophet, so that not true.

getzls

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

getzls wrote: »

They are taught that. Their Prophet commands it according to the Koran.

The jews are people of the book according to the prophet, so that not true.

They also are Kaffirs and non believers so they must die.
Look it up in the Koran or Google it.

SeanW

artanevilla wrote: »

Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism.

It most certainly is if the Anti-Zionist fails to note:

1. the many positives of Israel to balance their criticism, such as its MASSIVE contribution to the welfare of mankind through science and innovation.
2. all of the other countries which do much, much worse, like China and Russia.
3. Israel's unique perdicament (i.e. being surrounded by people who would destroy the state and drive its people into the sea if they had the chance).
4. Israel accounts for only a miniscule fraction of the Middle East, like 1% of it or something. Muslims administer by far the vast, vast majority of the Middle East and would continue to do so even if Israel siezed the West Bank and Gaza strip in full.
5. Israel is the world's only Jewish state and it's pathetically tiny in size.
6. Is the closest the Middle East has to a working democracy.
7. Minorities enjoy more rights in Israel than anywhere in the Middle East, including full rights to practice minority religions, and full access to positions of high government including permanent appointment to the Supreme Court.

China is currently occupying and attempting to destroy the native cultures of two nations: East Turkestan and Tibet. In the latter, Chinese policy verges on genocide, at the very least fitting the description of the lesser term of cultural genocide. Their treatment of their Falun Gong adherents is from my information - and I say this with little exaggeration - reminiscient of the policies of Nazi Germany towards Jews, Homosexuals, Slavs etc. China is also firmly in violation of international law, as an international tribunal has ruled against its claims to virtually all of the South China Sea, making its continued occupation of same illegal. Little should one wonder why, as their "nine dash line" claim is nothing more than an extortion demand by a scummy gangster, thug and bully of the most degenerate character, as are their attempts to steal the Senkaku Islands from Japan.

Russia is also invading other nations (Ukraine) menacing others (Estonia) and its involvement in Syria has been little more than a campaign of slaughter against innocent civilians, doctors in charity hospitals and the like.

Yet how many Tibet, East Turkestani, Japanese, Ukrainian, Malaysian, Vietnamese, Philippine, Kurdistani, Free Syrian Army flags are flown in NI by those sympathetic to oppressed peoples? How many oppressor flags, such as Chinese, Russian, Islamic State, Syria/Assad flags are flown by the loyalists? I suspect the answer to both questions is "Zero".

horsebox1977 wrote: »

Funny that Celtic face a fine for a a political emblem yet we have a poppy embased on footballers shirts right across the UK. How odd.

The poppy is not dissimilar to the Stars and Stripes or a bald eagle in the United States, I imagine, not political so much as a national symbol that belongs to all its people.

This automatic conflation of being critical of Israel as a state and its policies with Jewish people is an unfair and highly disingenuous trait, usually undertaken by people seeking to imply anything and everything toward those who rightly criticise Israel's policy of dispossession and colonisation.

Anti Zionism and Anti Semitism are terms often mutually inclusive. For example, on Iranian television (and broadcast in Europe) called "Zahra's Blue Eyes". It basically depicted Israeli Jews as evil psycopaths who kidnap Palestinian children and steal their body parts. Was this Anti-Semitic? Or Anti-Zionist? Or both?

Funny thing is that China actually does that to its Falun Gong people, though to be fair they do actually murder the Falun Gong practicioners before stealing their organs, unlike the horrible evil Jews ... oh sorry "Israelis" who steal Palestinian childrens eyes while they're still alive. At least according to Iranian TV.

I'm always a bit baffled by people who defend Israel to the hilt; something tells me if they had to spend a few days in a refugee camp in the West Bank or wintnessed soldiers in armoured ploughs demolishing a village olive grove they'd think a bit differently.

And I'm always a bit baffled by those who single out Israel, often based on half-truths at best, and ignore much worse.

I'm also more than a little baffled that "Palestinian refugees" have not been given new homes and lives with their fellow Arab Muslim peoples in the Middle East, Lord knows there's plenty of room for all of them in other Sunni Arab Muslim nations which are mostly very large and virtually all are larger than Israel. And how the Left never calls the leaders of those nations to account. Nor how the "refugees" are subject to different rules under the auspices of UNRWA than every other refugee group in modern history who were under the jurisdiction of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). (Hint, Israel had nothing to do with this). And again, why the Left is silent about this.

If you were a Falun Gong practicioner in jail in China awaiting execution squad so that the government could steal your organs, you might be wondering why the European Left doesn't give a crap about you. Ditto for the Dalai Lama and other Tibetan Buddhist adherents, exiled from the homeland of his people and his faith. Ditto for a doctor in Aleppo whose hospital had just been (intentionally) obliterated by a Russian or Assad regime airstrike.

The ones who are able to do simple jigsaws are probably enamoured by the Israeli state's treatment of Palestinians/Arabs and identify with the colonial/settler aspect of Israel.

If that were true, it would make more sense for them to fly the flags of the Peoples Republic of China or the Islamic State.

tomofson

SeanW wrote: »

It most certainly is if the Anti-Zionist fails to note:

1. the many positives of Israel to balance their criticism, such as its MASSIVE contribution to the welfare of mankind through science and innovation.
2. all of the other countries which do much, much worse, like China and Russia.
3. Israel's unique perdicament (i.e. being surrounded by people who would destroy the state and drive its people into the sea if they had the chance).
4. Israel accounts for only a miniscule fraction of the Middle East, like 1% of it or something. Muslims administer by far the vast, vast majority of the Middle East and would continue to do so even if Israel siezed the West Bank and Gaza strip in full.
5. Israel is the world's only Jewish state and it's pathetically tiny in size.
6. Is the closest the Middle East has to a working democracy.
7. Minorities enjoy more rights in Israel than anywhere in the Middle East, including full rights to practice minority religions, and full access to positions of high government including permanent appointment to the Supreme Court.

China is currently occupying and attempting to destroy the native cultures of two nations: East Turkestan and Tibet. In the latter, Chinese policy verges on genocide, at the very least fitting the description of the lesser term of cultural genocide. Their treatment of their Falun Gong adherents is from my information - and I say this with little exaggeration - reminiscient of the policies of Nazi Germany towards Jews, Homosexuals, Slavs etc. China is also firmly in violation of international law, as an international tribunal has ruled against its claims to virtually all of the South China Sea, making its continued occupation of same illegal. Little should one wonder why, as their "nine dash line" claim is nothing more than an extortion demand by a scummy gangster, thug and bully of the most degenerate character, as are their attempts to steal the Senkaku Islands from Japan.

Russia is also invading other nations (Ukraine) menacing others (Estonia) and its involvement in Syria has been little more than a campaign of slaughter against innocent civilians, doctors in charity hospitals and the like.

Yet how many Tibet, East Turkestani, Japanese, Ukrainian, Malaysian, Vietnamese, Philippine, Kurdistani, Free Syrian Army flags are flown in NI by those sympathetic to oppressed peoples? How many oppressor flags, such as Chinese, Russian, Islamic State, Syria/Assad flags are flown by the loyalists? I suspect the answer to both questions is "Zero".

The poppy is not dissimilar to the Stars and Stripes or a bald eagle in the United States, I imagine, not political so much as a national symbol that belongs to all its people.

Anti Zionism and Anti Semitism are terms often mutually inclusive. For example, on Iranian television (and broadcast in Europe) called "Zahra's Blue Eyes". It basically depicted Israeli Jews as evil psycopaths who kidnap Palestinian children and steal their body parts. Was this Anti-Semitic? Or Anti-Zionist? Or both?

Funny thing is that China actually does that to its Falun Gong people, though to be fair they do actually murder the Falun Gong practicioners before stealing their organs, unlike the horrible evil Jews ... oh sorry "Israelis" who steal Palestinian childrens eyes while they're still alive. At least according to Iranian TV.

And I'm always a bit baffled by those who single out Israel, often based on half-truths at best, and ignore much worse.

I'm also more than a little baffled that "Palestinian refugees" have not been given new homes and lives with their fellow Arab Muslim peoples in the Middle East, Lord knows there's plenty of room for all of them in other Sunni Arab Muslim nations which are mostly very large and virtually all are larger than Israel. And how the Left never calls the leaders of those nations to account. Nor how the "refugees" are subject to different rules under the auspices of UNRWA than every other refugee group in modern history who were under the jurisdiction of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). (Hint, Israel had nothing to do with this). And again, why the Left is silent about this.

If you were a Falun Gong practicioner in jail in China awaiting execution squad so that the government could steal your organs, you might be wondering why the European Left doesn't give a crap about you. Ditto for the Dalai Lama and other Tibetan Buddhist adherents, exiled from the homeland of his people and his faith. Ditto for a doctor in Aleppo whose hospital had just been (intentionally) obliterated by a Russian or Assad regime airstrike.

If that were true, it would make more sense for them to fly the flags of the Peoples Republic of China or the Islamic State.

The nazis made massive contributions to the welfare of mankind through science and innovation to, does that mean their actions cannot be criticized?
In fact if it wasn't for the developments of nazi scientists you wouldn't be sitting here on a computer spewing out hate filled bile, so I guess we shouldn't criticize anything the nazis did because of their contributions...

SeanW

tomofson wrote: »

The nazis made massive contributions to the welfare of mankind through science and innovation to, does that mean their actions cannot be criticized?
In fact if it wasn't for the developments of nazi scientists you wouldn't be sitting here on a computer spewing out hate filled bile, so I guess we shouldn't criticize anything the nazis did because of their contributions...

I never said Israel should be above criticism, only that said criticism should be tempered by the reality that is has unique problems, many positives and there's far, far worse going on elsewhere.

By all means, if you see Israelis destroying a Palestiain home or farm so that they can build a settlement instead of it, or where you see genuine human rights abuses of any kind, feel free to call them out for it.

BTW the foundations for the modern computer were laid down by Alan Turing. A gay man, who would probably have been executed in much of the Middle East including "Palestine".

tomofson

SeanW wrote: »

I never said Israel should be above criticism, only that said criticism should be tempered by the reality that is has unique problems, many positives and there's far, far worse going on elsewhere.

By all means, if you see Israelis destroying a Palestiain home or farm so that they can build a settlement instead of it, or where you see genuine human rights abuses of any kind, feel free to call them out for it.

BTW the foundations for the modern computer were laid down by Alan Turing. A gay man, who would probably have been executed in much of the Middle East including "Palestine".

Nazi scientists made major contributions towards technology and it would be unlikely the computer would have came to be without their contributions. So lets put nazism beyond all criticism because they gave us the computer and various other technical gadgets. I have never heard of gay people being executed in Palestine at least not by the Palestinian state I know they don't have the death penalty for homosexuality. Maybe by disgruntled residents but that can happen anywhere including in Israel I can remember a high profile case of extreme homophobic violence in the holy land not so long ago.

SeanW

tomofson wrote: »

Nazi scientists made major contributions towards technology and it would be unlikely the computer would have came to be without their contributions. So lets put nazism beyond all criticism because they gave us the computer and various other technical gadgets. I have never heard of gay people being executed in Palestine at least not by the Palestinian state I know they don't have the death penalty for homosexuality. Maybe by disgruntled residents but that can happen anywhere including in Israel I can remember a high profile case of extreme homophobic violence in the holy land not so long ago.

All the information I have is that computers were invented largely during World War II in Britain, by Alan Turing and Tommy Flowers. Any contribution made by Nazi Germany was more than outweighed by the harm they caused. The same is not true of Israel.

1. I never said that Israel should be beyond criticism. Let's be clear about that. I only outlined a case - based on the facts as I understand them -to TEMPER criticism. Not to place Israel above it.
2. Are you seriously comparing Israel to Nazi Germany?
3. Are you seriously comparing LGBT rights in Israel to those elsehwere in the Middle East? Again, the facts don't make for a good comparison.

tomofson

SeanW wrote: »

All the information I have is that computers were invented largely during World War II in Britain, by Alan Turing and Tommy Flowers. Any contribution made by Nazi Germany was more than outweighed by the harm they caused. The same is not true of Israel.

1. I never said that Israel should be beyond criticism. Let's be clear about that. I only outlined a case - based on the facts as I understand them -to TEMPER criticism. Not to place Israel above it.
2. Are you seriously comparing Israel to Nazi Germany?
3. Are you seriously comparing LGBT rights in Israel to those elsehwere in the Middle East? Again, the facts don't make for a good comparison.

Because the nazi scientists went on to create much more after the war was over they even worked for the american government they helped design disneyland and various other places such as TV satellites and stations. Most of their work was done in private they kept out of the public eye. It was operation paperclip that brought them over you should do some research. They also helped the CIA with torture methods and mind controlled trauma methods.

And yes their is comparisons to be made between Israel and nazi Germany, both militaristic oppressive regimes. One thing about oppressive regimes is they are always inventive this includes south africa during apartheid and the British when they conquered our own little island. One of the reasons they are so inventive is because they put themselves in places of trust and use the native population to come up with ideas then steal those ideas and call them their own because they are the only ones able to put the ideas in practice as they control the wealth.

SeanW

tomofson wrote: »

Because the nazi scientists went on to create much more after the war was over they even worked for the american government they helped design disneyland and various other places such as TV satellites and stations.

So the works you're talking about weren't actually done by Nazi Germany but by scientists who had worked for them in previous years and subsequently moved to other nations. Ok. Not sure what that has to do with Israel.

They also helped the CIA with torture methods and mind controlled trauma methods.

Perhaps, but I did not cheerlead for "torture methods" or "mind controlled trauma methods" so I'm not sure how it's relevant. And I have no idea what this has to do with Israel.

tomofson

SeanW wrote: »

So the works you're talking about weren't actually done by Nazi Germany but by scientists who had worked for them in previous years and subsequently moved to other nations. Ok. Not sure what that has to do with Israel.

Perhaps, but I did not cheerlead for "torture methods" or "mind controlled trauma methods" so I'm not sure how it's relevant. And I have no idea what this has to do with Israel.

It has everything to do with Israel you are just deliberately and tactically missing the point.

steddyeddy

getzls wrote: »

Yes I agree though they just happened to be dick heads of the Roman Catholic faith dick heads.
Get real!!

Sometimes there's subtle sectarianism from the previously frozen poster and others and then there's this.

It may be worth thinking your way out of this box dude and seeing more of the world. You're being brought up to hate and it's effecting the quality of life of your community for decades now. Hate has been put on the forefront of economy, peace and quality of life in your community for too long now. See what the rest f the world sees and be the better person.

Grayson

SeanW wrote: »

All the information I have is that computers were invented largely during World War II in Britain, by Alan Turing and Tommy Flowers. Any contribution made by Nazi Germany was more than outweighed by the harm they caused. The same is not true of Israel.

1. I never said that Israel should be beyond criticism. Let's be clear about that. I only outlined a case - based on the facts as I understand them -to TEMPER criticism. Not to place Israel above it.
2. Are you seriously comparing Israel to Nazi Germany?
3. Are you seriously comparing LGBT rights in Israel to those elsehwere in the Middle East? Again, the facts don't make for a good comparison.

So the way it works is that

1) if LGBT rights are affected in Israel I can criticise but only if I mention that it's worse elsewhere so Israel doesn't look as bad.

2) I can't mention for example that Israel has many apartheid like elements such as the fact that a muslim and jew are not allowed marry, unless I also mention something good that someone in Israel has done.

This is the problem with people who decide to pick a side. I'm not anti israel, I'm pro human rights. I'll criticise any country, no matter what religion the people are, if they violate the human rights of their own citizens and others.

Lingua Franca

getzls wrote: »

I don't need to look it up, I know about it.

Odd that you didn't mention it, then. Very odd.

I see you posted a link showing more Republican hate at the same cemetery.

Did I? I was sure I'd posted some glue sniffing degenerate thugs who hate republicans just as much as you do. In fact, I just checked and I did.

Really if anyone thinks a group of Prods run havoc in the City Cemetery they need their bump felt.

If anyone thinks it's republicans doing it for some cause instead of the same group of degenerates that hang around there glue sniffing and smashing **** up day in day out then they need to check their bias.