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    #32
    Bazinga_N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Bazinga_N


    spurious wrote: »
    In 'ye olden days' we all read Chaucer, albeit abridged.
    Three library books every two weeks on top of whatever we were reading at school. Those were the days.
    You know I was actually speaking to my friend's dad (he'd be in his late 50s) awhile back, and he told me that when he was our age he was expected to read far more than we are and far more challenging books than we have today. Is there a reason why our education system 'dumbed down', for want of a better phrase, our literature?

    It seems silly to me that kids are doing the Hobbit, Private Peaceful and The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime for the Junior Cert when those books are more suitable to 11/12 year olds in primary school. There's no reason Junior Cycle students wouldn't be able to tackle King Lear, The Great Gatsby, The Plough in the Stars, etc. but instead they're not introduced to students until Leaving Cert. The Higher Level English course for Leaving Cert doesn't really tackle very challenging literary pieces either. It just seems very watered down to me. Obviously I know allowances have to be made for those not inclined towards English and Reading Skills but surely the higher level course could have more challenging literature?

    I dunno really :P Maybe I'm being over-dramatic about it!! :rolleyes:


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    #33
    TSMGUY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 855 ✭✭✭TSMGUY


    Bazinga_N wrote: »
    You know I was actually speaking to my friend's dad (he'd be in his late 50s) awhile back, and he told me that when he was our age he was expected to read far more than we are and far more challenging books than we have today. Is there a reason why our education system 'dumbed down', for want of a better phrase, our literature?

    It seems silly to me that kids are doing the Hobbit, Private Peaceful and The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime for the Junior Cert when those books are more suitable to 11/12 year olds in primary school. There's no reason Junior Cycle students wouldn't be able to tackle King Lear, The Great Gatsby, The Plough in the Stars, etc. but instead they're not introduced to students until Leaving Cert. The Higher Level English course for Leaving Cert doesn't really tackle very challenging literary pieces either. It just seems very watered down to me. Obviously I know allowances have to be made for those not inclined towards English and Reading Skills but surely the higher level course could have more challenging literature?

    I dunno really :P Maybe I'm being over-dramatic about it!! :rolleyes:

    I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. T.S. Elliot, Shakespeare, The Bronte Sister and John Donne were all on the LC course in the last few years. I'd say that's a great introduction point for the canon and a very solid course for 16-18 year old students. There's always the danger of the "back in my day mentality." My grandpa (who's in his late 80's) gave me his old maths copybook from when he was my age and it was literally the exact same stuff about logarithms in my textbook.


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    #34
    Bazinga_N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Bazinga_N


    Actually I agree that the Leaving Cert poetry course is quite tough but even with the Shakespeare it's always the same 4 texts they only ever delve into Hamlet, Macbeth, Othello and Lear. They don't ever touch on Anthony and Cleopatra or Julius Caesar or any of his other stuff.

    I do agree with what you're saying about that mentality though! People often have a very romanticised vision of the past.


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    #35
    TSMGUY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 855 ✭✭✭TSMGUY


    Bazinga_N wrote: »
    Actually I agree that the Leaving Cert poetry course is quite tough but even with the Shakespeare it's always the same 4 texts they only ever delve into Hamlet, Macbeth, Othello and Lear. They don't ever touch on Anthony and Cleopatra or Julius Caesar or any of his other stuff.

    I do agree with what you're saying about that mentality though! People often have a very romanticised vision of the past./QUOTE]

    Wasn't like that back in my day.....:rolleyes::pac:


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    #36
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,188 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    We covered this for Inter. Cert..
    http://www.angelfire.com/nv/mf/elia2/superann.htm
    Make of it what you will.


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    #37
    Mango Joe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭Mango Joe


    Just make sure you're employable afterwards..... All this running around with your pigtails floating in the breeze, follow your dreams nonsense is not guaranteed to make for a happy and financially secure future for yourself and your dear Mam who's done her best by you always.

    I've seen a few people struggle for decades post graduation with degrees that don't have an actual career afterwards, it never looked like fun and it sometimes means recommencing third level courses in evenings/weekends etc while working in low paid jobs...... Perhaps I'm ill-informed and clueless as to the likely career opportunities etc - But just sayin.....


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    #38
    Bazinga_N
    Registered Users Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Bazinga_N


    spurious wrote: »
    We covered this for Inter. Cert..
    http://www.angelfire.com/nv/mf/elia2/superann.htm
    Make of it what you will.
    What a fantastic essay! What a brilliant view of retirement and freedom. I could never imagine such a piece being shown to a Junior Cycle class today, and it's a real pity!


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    #39
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,188 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Bazinga_N wrote:
    What a fantastic essay! What a brilliant view of retirement and freedom. I could never imagine such a piece being shown to a Junior Cycle class today, and it's a real pity!

    I think we were perhaps a little young tackling it. The subject matter may have been more appropriate for LC, but gosh the essayists in the prose book had such fantastic command of the language.


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    #40
    TSMGUY
    Closed Accounts Posts: 855 ✭✭✭TSMGUY


    spurious wrote: »
    We covered this for Inter. Cert..
    http://www.angelfire.com/nv/mf/elia2/superann.htm
    Make of it what you will.
    Well, it's a great piece of writing! It doesn't look like it'd be too challenging for a good JC student though.
    Mango Joe wrote: »
    Just make sure you're employable afterwards..... All this running around with your pigtails floating in the breeze, follow your dreams nonsense is not guaranteed to make for a happy and financially secure future for yourself and your dear Mam who's done her best by you always.

    I've seen a few people struggle for decades post graduation with degrees that don't have an actual career afterwards, it never looked like fun and it sometimes means recommencing third level courses in evenings/weekends etc while working in low paid jobs...... Perhaps I'm ill-informed and clueless as to the likely career opportunities etc - But just sayin.....
    Harshly worded but very true sentiments there. I'd be lying if I said my mum would be happy with me going to TCD.


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    #41
    Ponguin
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Ponguin


    Kinda miss TSM guy's posts, wonder what he's up to now


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