5 members of family found dead in Cavan - NO SPECULATION

Spanish Eyes

We can speculate and gossip all we like, but we will probably never know now.

Rest in peace Ms Hawe and your lovely boys.

Likely the husband was a controller of all he surveyed, and someone upset that notion, or was thinking of it.

That's my theory anyway. Doubt if the murderer was mentally ill, just a control freak whose controlling was threatened lately.

Just a theory. But whatever.

May the deceased wife and boys rest in peace. As for the murderer, I am sure some God will forgive him.

Stheno

For me, this tragedy, and it is a tragedy, is that on the face of it, it could be me, you, or your friends or family members.

It quite simply highlights a need to provide people with space to talk about their issues.

As a very basic and no means intended to be disrespectful example, I've had a ****ty week, I have worked about 40 hours since Monday.

Driving home from a client engagement this evening at 6:30 I got a call from my boss wanting me to do work or a meeting tomorrow.

I literally felt like telling him to go **** a bus. Then I realised I've a meeting tomorrow so I've to do it.

Once I calmed down I worked out how I can deal with it, and still be sat here interacting on a thread like this.

So I'm now facing into a far nicer tomorrow than if I'd reacted to that pressure immediately.

Sometimes that's a big trigger.

Regardless, I was working with a chap from the area this tragedy this happened in, and he was very very shook.

Whatever drives a person to behave like this, imo takes time, and I'd wonder if there is a stigma there that the perpetrator here couldn't overcome.

Mary63

The absolute nerve of him too to sit down and write pages justifying what he did.

I wonder did he write down the funeral arrangements he wanted too.

pheasant tail

Amanda.ie wrote: »

A person cannot just flip like that but reports are he had no mental issues, can someone hide that?

Yes people can and do hide mental issues for their entire lifetime! This lad possibly hit breaking point. When people are medically diagnosed or classed as 'insane', they don't know the difference between right or wrong, yes or no! Thing is, if he hadn't killed himself and was actually very possibly diagnosed as insane he wouldn't be seeing any jail time at all. Fact is none of us know what happened or what was going on with him

Esel

I'm sure the truth regarding this case will come out after the funerals, from social media forensic investigation; statements from connected people; maybe even the contents of the note(s) and the eventual inquests.

If nothing else, I hope this tragedy may spur some other potential victims to seek help and escape such a fate. Much easier said than done.

Stheno

Esel wrote: »

I'm sure the truth regarding this case will come out after the funerals, from social media forensic investigation; statements from connected people; maybe even the contents of the note(s) and the eventual inquests.

If nothing else, I hope this tragedy may spur some other potential victims to seek help and escape such a fate. Much easier said than done.

Absolutely

Mary63

But people who are completely insane dont pin notes on the door warning relatives not to come in.I wonder did he pin this note on the door after he murdered the family or before.He also sat down at some stage and wrote what is described as a list of reasons why he decided his family had to die.If he did this before he attacked them with knives and a hatchet does that not mean he was capable of rationel thought.Its even worse to think he might have written those notes after he killed his wife and children.

Stheno

Mary63 wrote: »

But people who are completely insane dont pin notes on the door warning relatives not to come in.I wonder did he pin this note on the door after he murdered the family or before.He also sat down at some stage and wrote what is described as a list of reasons why he decided his family had to die.If he did this before he attacked them with knives and a hatchet does that not mean he was capable of rationel thought.Its even worse to think he might have written those notes after he killed his wife and children.

It's equally possible that someone who is a state of extreme despair would consider that course of action to be rational, and to try to limit the damage to their family.

Spanish Eyes

Command and control.

If I can't have you, no one else will.

I don't think this atrocity happened on the spur of the moment. Schools back soon, so the deed was done just before.

How very sad.

Elliott S

The Backwards Man wrote: »

There's nothing easy about having to write a statement where five people have died, no matter how it happened. I think people need to step back a wee bit here, I don't know everything, you don't know everything, nobody does, hijacking a tragedy for petty point scoring does no one any favours, not the dead, not the grieving, not you or me.

It's not point-scoring. I honestly don't know how or why anyone would omit mentioning one of the victims, a very important person in the lives of the boys missed by the school. There are only five people to mention, why leave out one, who lost her life tragically like everyone else. I don't know why anyone would defend the omission either. That strikes me as point-scoring, TBH.

JupiterKid

Horrific tragedy. It's one thing to take your own life - regrettable as it is - but another to take the lives of your own children. I will never comprehend what drives someone to do that - but nor will I judge.

It brings back memories of the two murder suicides in Wexford a few years back.

Mary63

I have to agree thats what it seems like to me.

Surely if you thought your family would be better off is some other place you would think of ways to end their lives with little suffering.

This sounds like someone who was possessed by rage.

Amanda.ie

Stheno wrote: »

It's equally possible that someone who is a state of extreme despair would consider that course of action to be rational, and to try to limit the damage to their family.

I think this is what most people are struggling to understand, how could he be rational enough to think of the person who would find them but yet be so unstable he could kill his family.
Im sure to people who work in the area of mental issues do understand how the mind works, and see it differently.

Spanish Eyes

JupiterKid wrote: »

Horrific tragedy. It's one thing to take your own life - regrettable as it is - but another to take the lives of your own children. I will never comprehend what drives someone to do that - but nor will I judge.

It brings back memories of the two murder suicides in Wexford a few years back.

And his wife, let's not forget her. She has been a bit airbrushed already, but no one knows why.

maudgonner

I find it a bit ghoulish, people forming their own ideas of what this man was like, what his relationship with his family was, and how he carried out the murders.

This is a desperate tragedy. None of us sitting here on the internet can know what happened in that house. On that day or in the months and years leading up to it. I'd rather the investigations were left to the people that are in a position to have some chance of gaining an insight.

Spanish Eyes

Amanda.ie wrote: »

I think this is what most people are struggling to understand, how could he be rational enough to think of the person who would find them but yet be so unstable he could kill his family.
Im sure to people who work in the area of mental issues do understand how the mind works, and see it differently.

Quite frankly I don't think it has anything to do with MH issues at all.

Rage, revenge, control is a more likely scenario. IMV

Lollipop95

http://www.mummypages.ie/comment-depression-alone-does-not-drive-you-to-violently-kill-your-own-children-1

I'd have to say that I agree with everything in this article.

I cannot comprehend this horrible tragedy and seeing the little boys pictures and the picture of their mum makes it all the more real and sad. I don't like how some are trying to blame this on mental illness or that the father did it because he wasn't thinking logically and thought he was saving the family. As the article says, it was pure evil.

eviltwin wrote: »

He didn't just kill them, he butchered them. Knife and a hatchet and the possibility of something else....that's not the actions of a loving husband and father.

See, this is what I take issue with. Why kill your family in such a horrific way? I can't believe I'm even writing this but there would be other ways that would be less horrific. The two letters he left is what gets to me and is what deeply disturbed me...the fact he wrote such (apparently) coherent notes would suggest that this would planned and that he hadn't just simply snapped.

RIP to the three lovely, innocent boys and their poor, innocent mother x

allthedoyles

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Quite frankly I don't think it has anything to do with MH issues at all.

Rage, revenge, control is a more likely scenario. IMV

Sure a schoolteacher and pillar of society can't be sufffering MH issues

Spanish Eyes

maudgonner wrote: »

I find it a bit ghoulish, people forming their own ideas of what this man was like, what his relationship with his family was, and how he carried out the murders.

This is a desperate tragedy. None of us sitting here on the internet can know what happened in that house. On that day or in the months and years leading up to it. I'd rather the investigations were left to the people that are in a position to have some chance of gaining an insight.

To be fair, for AH it has been one of the few threads that have been decent and fair in general, and well moderated. Considering the atrocity it could have been a dreadful thread, but it wasn't up to now IMV anyway.

Just people appalled, puzzled and putting some theories out there. Nothing wrong with that I think.

JupiterKid

Yes of course his wife was a victim too. I suppose when small children are involved, people tend to focus on that.

I didn't realise he used knives and a hatchet. That is really sick.

Spanish Eyes

allthedoyles wrote: »

Sure a schoolteacher and pillar of society can't be sufffering MH issues

Well in fairness, I'd imagine the parents of children at the murderer's school will be thinking some things today about the vice principal. What if....

Thumpette

maudgonner wrote: »

I find it a bit ghoulish, people forming their own ideas of what this man was like, what his relationship with his family was, and how he carried out the murders.

This is a desperate tragedy. None of us sitting here on the internet can know what happened in that house. On that day or in the months and years leading up to it. I'd rather the investigations were left to the people that are in a position to have some chance of gaining an insight.

I agree that the investigations need to be done by the people with the fullest view of the facts, but I can't imagine any scenario where this man's actions were excusable or even explainable.

When I think of the pain and terror that ended the lives of his wife and children it just makes me sick.

When I think about them all being buried together it seems so wrong. I know their families are trying to make a decision while in horrendous shock- but I can't imagine Clodagh would want the murderer of her children buried with them.

To me it doesn't matter what mental health issues there were or were not. Lots of people suffer unimaginably- that does not make it ok for them to become a cold blooded killer. Surely by that logic every sick murderer, every rapist, every peodophile are also not mentally stable- how could anyone commit any of those acts if they were.

I think the defence of him- the notion he was somehow enacting the ultimate act of fatherly protection from the world is frankly gross.

Enough of the 'good family man' and the handball and the upstanding member of the community.

brooke 2

eviltwin wrote: »

I just hope those children were asleep and unaware of what happened. I feel sad for all involved.

They must have been as they would have heard what was going on downstairs. Am hoping he drugged them before they went to bed.
If they had been awakened by the horror which was taking place downstairs, I would imagine the older two would have rung
someone for help.

idunno78

Lollipop95 wrote: »

http://www.mummypages.ie/comment-depression-alone-does-not-drive-you-to-violently-kill-your-own-children-1

I'd have to say that I agree with everything in this article.

I cannot comprehend this horrible tragedy and seeing the little boys pictures and the picture of their mum makes it all the more real and sad. I don't like how some are trying to blame this on mental illness or that the father did it because he wasn't thinking logically and thought he was saving the family. As the article says, it was pure evil.



See, this is what I take issue with. Why kill your family in such a horrific way? I can't believe I'm even writing this but there would be other ways that would be less horrific. The two letters he left is what gets to me and is what deeply disturbed me...the fact he wrote such (apparently) coherent notes would suggest that this would planned and that he hadn't just simply snapped.

RIP to the three lovely, innocent boys and their poor, innocent mother x

Completely agree with all of this! Said the exact same thing earlier! It's horrible to be saying/thinking it but there are more humane ways to kill some one then what that man did to his family. So horrendous... Personally I think it was pre-meditated leaving notes and stuff. The poor parents, hers and his, left to deal with this is just heartbreaking. RIP...

maudgonner

maudgonner wrote: »

None of us sitting here on the internet can know what happened in that house. On that day or in the months and years leading up to it. I'd rather the investigations were left to the people that are in a position to have some chance of gaining an insight.

I'm not being too curt I hope when I ask what you expect from a message board thread on the subject? That is be populated only by qualified professionals who have investigated the events thoroughly?


I find myself wondering whether this man was religious.

Electric Sheep

Thumpette wrote: »

Enough of the 'good family man' and the handball and the upstanding member of the community.

But but GAA! GAA! How can you possibly think ill of a man involved with the GAA?!

maudgonner

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

To be fair, for AH it has been one of the few threads that have been decent and fair in general, and well moderated. Considering the atrocity it could have been a dreadful thread, but it wasn't up to now IMV anyway.

Just people appalled, puzzled and putting some theories out there. Nothing wrong with that I think.

I don't feel the same. And I think it's ironic in a thread that includes 'No Speculation' in the title that people feel it's appropriate to spend pages telling us what was going on in that man's mind.

pheasant tail

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well in fairness, I'd imagine the parents of children at the murderer's school will be thinking some things today about the vice principal. What if....

Continue..?

maudgonner

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not being too curt I hope when I ask what you expect from a message board thread on the subject? That is be populated only by qualified professionals who have investigated the events thoroughly?


I find myself wondering whether this man was religious.

I don't know what I expected. People to express their horror at what happened and leave it at that, maybe.

But I find it ironic that back on the first few pages of this thread posters were (rightly, imo) outraged at the sensationalist article in The Sun. And now people on this thread are posting their own speculations on exactly how the crime was committed, telling us the man's state of mind, telling us what his relationship with his family was. All based on very little, if any, information. How is that any better than the Redtops?


People are, of course, entitled to post whatever they like. I just find it inappropriate, personally.

Spanish Eyes

pheasant tail wrote: »

Continue..?

Since you ordered me to (lol), I will say that parents might be thoroughly relieved that the vice principal didn't kill their own children in a fit of rage with an axe and a few knives, just because he didn't get his own way or something like that.

The fact that he didn't, points to his family situation. To kill them all is just reprehensible though, no matter what the problem was. But there is no doubt some back story.

JupiterKid

There does seem to be a bit of the "circling of the wagons" by the local community - quick to defend the murderer or else not comment at all. Being involved in the GAA means nothing.

Spanish Eyes

maudgonner wrote: »

I don't know what I expected. People to express their horror at what happened and leave it at that, maybe.

But I find it ironic that back on the first few pages of this thread posters were (rightly, imo) outraged at the sensationalist article in The Sun. And now people on this thread are posting their own speculations on exactly how the crime was committed, telling us the man's state of mind, telling us what his relationship with his family was. All based on very little, if any, information. How is that any better than the Redtops?

Apply to be a Mod. Only way we will listen to you on AH telling us what to do or think.

No warnings or bans or infractions from the Mods AFAIS. And you do know that they are on the ball, especially with a sensitive subject like this. So what is your problem really?

maudgonner

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Apply to be a Mod. Only way we will listen to you on AH telling us what to do or think.

No warnings or bans or infractions from the Mods AFAIS. And you do know that they are on the ball, especially with a sensitive subject like this. So what is your problem really?

I added an edit to my post to clarify that people are entitled to post what they like. I'm not suggesting otherwise.

pheasant tail

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Since you ordered me to (lol), I will say that parents might be thoroughly relieved that the vice principal didn't kill their own children in a fit of rage with an axe and a few knives, just because he didn't get his own way or something like that.

The fact that he didn't, points to his family situation. To kill them all is just reprehensible though, no matter what the problem was. But there is no doubt some back story.

Sorry I thought you meant something else, totally mistook your post I wasn't been smart I'm half asleep 😊 I'm sure we will hear something alright, I don't live too far from there but everyone's as clueless as anyone else

Spanish Eyes

JupiterKid wrote: »

There does seem to be a bit of the "circling of the wagons" by the local community - quick to defend the murderer or else not comment at all. Being involved in the GAA means nothing.

That happens. But I am very surprised that parents are not just trembling as to what could have happened to their children at his school, if he lost the plot one day.

All communities will support their pillars. But sometimes they might need to be counted and speak out. But that will never happen. No one wants to upset anyone else, least of all the family of the headmaster. God forbid.

Wonder how the wife's school community are dealing with this. Same I reckon, but I haven't heard much about her school yet.

Communities circle at times like this to keep the press at bay.

This is one time I hope the media get the truth. Otherwise it is like the Stepford Wives.

Spanish Eyes

pheasant tail wrote: »

Sorry I thought you meant something else, totally mistook your post I wasn't been smart I'm half asleep 😊 I'm sure we will hear something alright, I don't live too far from there but everyone's as clueless as anyone else

No worries at all.

As you say, the truth will come out soon enough. But between now and the funerals is omerta.

foggy_lad

mhge wrote: »

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/from-evil-comes-good-gardai-8743516

A reprehensible piece of writing by people who happily lay prostrate and prostitute themselves for their job.

One of the scumbag reporters sources has supposedly said the following,

“Clodagh was known to struggle with serious emotional lows following the deaths of her brother 10 years ago and her brother-in-law just over a year ago.

It is very possible that she was involved in the killing of her own children and possibly herself and that the husband came upon the scene and decided that he could not continue without his family or killed her then himself.

Only supposition I know but it is at least taking into account the lack of information and not making up **** because it sells papers!

eviltwin wrote: »

Would you stop with the loving dad stuff. A loving dad doesn't take a hatchet to his children or their mum.

So do we have a Garda statement that the children and wife were killed with a hatchet??

Amanda.ie wrote: »

''Investigating gardaí are satisfied Mr Hawe did not suffer any mental health issues, had no contact with the Health Service Executive (HSE) and had no major financial problems''

Have you a source or link to the report that your quote is from please?

The Irish Mirror(a proper rag) has a source that states the wife was depressed over 2 deaths in her family. She seems the more likely to have killed her family.

eviltwin wrote: »

Killing four people with a hatchet screams rage and anger to me.

Again we have no evidence or Gardai statement that any hatchet was used, only some unnamed/unknown source saying that a hatchet was removed for forensic testing along with knives. standard procedure in such a case I would imagine?

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

And his wife, let's not forget her. She has been a bit airbrushed already, but no one knows why.

She had two terrible events in the last ten years and was described by some unnamed/unknown media source -

“Clodagh was known to struggle with serious emotional lows following the deaths of her brother 10 years ago and her brother-in-law just over a year ago."


Nobody knows what went on in that house except that 5 people known locally as being good decent honest hard-working parents and their young children are now dead. Why would anyone want to delve into the details of this tragedy? Can ye not just leave it to the trained investigators? Christ even the oldest boys texts, made public by that god forsaken gutter rag the Irish Mirror, sent to friends(probably about some video game) will become a source for speculation amongst the boards.ie Hangin' Jury, this same paper couldn't even get the boys age correct! they say he was 15 but show photos giving his age as 13.


Sorry about the rant but I'm fed up of media whores with their unknown sources making things up about what are good people just to sell papers.

pheasant tail

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

No worries at all.

As you say, the truth will come out soon enough. But between now and the funerals is omerta.

Yea it's not like any kinda truth is ever going to justify the consequences or make the families feel any better though

policarp

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not being too curt I hope when I ask what you expect from a message board thread on the subject? That is be populated only by qualified professionals who have investigated the events thoroughly?


I find myself wondering whether this man was religious.

If he was or not the children should.nt pay the price

pheasant tail

Amanda.ie wrote: »

''Investigating gardaí are satisfied Mr Hawe did not suffer any mental health issues, had no contact with the Health Service Executive (HSE) and had no major financial problems''

Oh so hadn't seeked help from the HSE had he had money in his bank. Sure he can't be have any mental health problems so. Nonsense

JamboMac

Very sad thing this situation but i don't understand the murder suicide mentality

brooke 2

mhge wrote: »

People do, they smother, sedate or drown them, not hack at them.

Just can't get my head around his using a hatchet to kill his wife. Horrific.

Esel

foggy_lad wrote: »

A reprehensible piece of writing by people who happily lay prostrate and prostitute themselves for their job.

One of the scumbag reporters sources has supposedly said the following,It is very possible that she was involved in the killing of her own children and possibly herself and that the husband came upon the scene and decided that he could not continue without his family or killed her then himself.

Only supposition I know but it is at least taking into account the lack of information and not making up **** because it sells papers!

So do we have a Garda statement that the children and wife were killed with a hatchet??

Have you a source or link to the report that your quote is from please?

The Irish Mirror(a proper rag) has a source that states the wife was depressed over 2 deaths in her family. She seems the more likely to have killed her family.

Again we have no evidence or Gardai statement that any hatchet was used, only some unnamed/unknown source saying that a hatchet was removed for forensic testing along with knives. standard procedure in such a case I would imagine?

She had two terrible events in the last ten years and was described by some unnamed/unknown media source -

“Clodagh was known to struggle with serious emotional lows following the deaths of her brother 10 years ago and her brother-in-law just over a year ago."


Nobody knows what went on in that house except that 5 people known locally as being good decent honest hard-working parents and their young children are now dead. Why would anyone want to delve into the details of this tragedy? Can ye not just leave it to the trained investigators? Christ even the oldest boys texts, made public by that god forsaken gutter rag the Irish Mirror, sent to friends(probably about some video game) will become a source for speculation amongst the boards.ie Hangin' Jury, this same paper couldn't even get the boys age correct! they say he was 15 but show photos giving his age as 13.


Sorry about the rant but I'm fed up of media whores with their unknown sources making things up about what are good people just to sell papers.

Wow. First you slag off the journalists. Then, you latch on to something they wrote, and extrapolate it into an off-the-wall 'theory'. WTF?

brooke 2

mhge wrote: »

Statement from the school... see who is mentioned and how:
http://i2.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/article8743537.ece/ALTERNATES//s458b/I160831_171411_2006803oTextTRMRMMGLPICT000098350457o.jpg

I know it is an official statement but when I first read it, the brutal coldness of it struck me. The tone is totally lacking in sympathy. Not one mention of Clodagh Hawe. They should have mentioned her when they were naming the boys. Whoever penned that notice was completely lacking in emotional intelligence, IMO. People's feelings are so raw and sore at this tragic time that some effort should have been made to introduce a more empathic tone to that notice, official though it is.

brooke 2

Lisha wrote: »

I'm speechless that Clodagh's name was not used at all. They didn't even refer to her.

Imagine her family reading that! Cruel. :mad:

brooke 2

Tasden wrote: »

They did so in the first paragraph when referring to the family tragedy. They didn't name her specifically as she was not a staff member in the school. If there had been other children who didn't attend the school they probably wouldn't have been mentioned by name. It was a badly written statement in hindsight, but I really don't think they were dismissing the value of Clodaghs life or minimising the tragedy of her death in any way, they just specifically named those personally known to the school and she was the only one who was not. Badly thought out statement but I don't think it was due to them only caring about him and the kids, moreso they were named due to their direct connection with the school.

It was an official statement but comes across as callously cold and lacking in empathy. Very hurtful for Clodagh Hawe's family, I imagine, if and when they read it.

brooke 2

eviltwin wrote: »

Killing four people with a hatchet screams rage and anger to me.

Me too.

brooke 2

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Command and control.

If I can't have you, no one else will.

I don't think this atrocity happened on the spur of the moment. Schools back soon, so the deed was done just before.

How very sad.

It is reported that he was stressed about returning to school. Apart from the letter which he left for relatives to open, apparently there were random notes scattered around the house, on which he had 'scribbled' some of his concerns about school.

brooke 2

allthedoyles wrote: »

Sure a schoolteacher and pillar of society can't be sufffering MH issues

You may have hit the nail on the head! There is no record of his attending any doctor for mental health issues but it does not mean he was not suffering. As a teacher and so-called 'pillar of society' in a tiny village, he may have felt constrained from seeking help. Like it or not, there is still a stigma attached to MH in many parts.

mille100piedi

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

We can speculate and gossip all we like, but we will probably never know now.

Rest in peace Ms Hawe and your lovely boys.

Likely the husband was a controller of all he surveyed, and someone upset that notion, or was thinking of it.

That's my theory anyway. Doubt if the murderer was mentally ill, just a control freak whose controlling was threatened lately.

Just a theory. But whatever.

May the deceased wife and boys rest in peace. As for the murderer, I am sure some God will forgive him.

I have the same opinion, I know about many cases where the partner killed the girlfriend/wife and it is always due to the fact that he couldn't stand loosing control of her.