How to treat lights that don't recognize bikes?

mjsc1970

What about at a 4 way green man crossing, if ye hopped off the bike and walked it thru the junction to the other side, minding peds as ye go. Acceptable ?

tomasrojo

mjsc1970 wrote: »

What about at a 4 way green man crossing, if ye hopped off the bike and walked it thru the junction to the other side, minding peds as ye go. Acceptable ?

Seems completely legal, if you're walking the bike. Unless you go diagonally.

ED E

Lights in the bus lane on Stephens green & Leeson heading to Earlsfort Terrace are misconfigured like this, contacted DCC traffic but nothing was done. If no peds or busses are about its awful dodgy.

2RockMountain

ED E wrote: »

Lights in the bus lane on Stephens green & Leeson heading to Earlsfort Terrace are misconfigured like this, contacted DCC traffic but nothing was done. If no peds or busses are about its awful dodgy.

Maybe you should just email Owen Keegan?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100851210&postcount=221

Chuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

Seems completely legal, if you're walking the bike. Unless you go diagonally.

Surely if all four sets of pedestrian lights are green, the lights act as a 'scramble', allowing diagonal crossing? It's what all pedestrians (and many cyclists, having dismounted and wheeling their bikes) do on one crossroads local to me, and it's what makes it annoying if people cycle straight through, or rather if they cycle through fast. If they amble along it's not particularly distressing.

dreamerb

ED E wrote: »

Lights in the bus lane on Stephens green & Leeson heading to Earlsfort Terrace are misconfigured like this, contacted DCC traffic but nothing was done. If no peds or busses are about its awful dodgy.

Yes, they're on my (new) regular route and they're a mess, in both directions. Out of bloodyminded curiousity I've waited a couple of times through the cycles to see if they go. On one occasion the sheer mass of cycles seemed to finally set it off, couple of others I've given up. I've also experimented with positioning to try to set off the induction loop (unhelpfully located off the marked cycle lane) but that's never worked. And while you're obediently waiting, going south from the Green, you also have buses going up your left hand side for the Leeson Street turn. The Dublin bus drivers seem careful, BE ones and some private coaches not so much.

Wishbone Ash

ED E wrote: »

Lights in the bus lane on Stephens green & Leeson heading to Earlsfort Terrace are misconfigured like this, contacted DCC traffic but nothing was done. If no peds or busses are about its awful dodgy.

Agree, that junction is messy. I've waited there through several sequences without getting a green and ended up walking through.

aFlabbyPanda

Wouldn't this only be a problem when there is no traffic anyway. I start work early so am usually cycling by 6.30am. On Sundays & during the summer mornings there are usually no cars around so waiting isn't practical. In these times I'll wait at the red light and if it the sequence either don't change or skips my light I'll go through it cautiously.

During the evenings or when traffic is busier I usually only have to wait for 30 seconds before a car comes along to trigger it anyway.

Wishbone Ash

TopSideControl wrote: »

Wouldn't this only be a problem when there is no traffic anyway..

Generally yes but in the case in my previous post in St Stephen's Green East, the lights can only be activated by buses as there is no motorised private vehicles permitted. While there may be no 'traffic' on St Stephen's Green East. that does not mean that there is no traffic on all other routes into that junction. I've been stopped there on many occasions on the bike while watching the pedestrian crossing go green several times over while my light stays red.

EDIT: Just to clarify - no private traffic permitted southbound on St S G E but private traffic is permitted northbound.

DanDublin1982

With contempt. :pac:

They are a bit of a bugbear though and I'm really not sure what purpose they actually serve as most of them do nothing but inform that a single car is at a junction. Feeds into the impatient motorist mindset I think.

tomasrojo

Chuchote wrote: »

Surely if all four sets of pedestrian lights are green, the lights act as a 'scramble', allowing diagonal crossing?

I might be wrong, but someone here recently said that you have to walk the two sides. Diagonal crossing isn't permitted.

Maybe it's not true. I couldn't say. I have assumed that it is true that it is not permitted.

Chuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

I might be wrong, but someone here recently said that you have to walk the two sides. Diagonal crossing isn't permitted.

Maybe it's not true. I couldn't say. I have assumed that it is true that it is not permitted.

Crazy if it's not allowed - it's the logical and fast way to cross when whole junction is green for pedestrians.

Mercian Pro

This is the Stephens Green junction with Leeson St and Earlsfort Terrace mentioned above. I have found that riding along the line of the induction wire (red in the photo but not unfortunately in reality) triggers the sensors. When I asked DCC why there wasn't a marked induction wire in the bike lane, they said they couldn't install one due to building works going on at the Stephens Green/Earlsfort Tce corner (presumably the control box was there?). Must get on to them again now that that new building is finished.

Any type of bike, carbon or metal, will be picked up by the sensors once it has steel or aluminium wheels. I posted a link here before to an article explaining the science when this issue came up last year.

magicbastarder

you have a copy of that link? i don't understand how aluminium wheels would trigger it.

topcat77

magicbastarder wrote: »

you have a copy of that link? i don't understand how aluminium wheels would trigger it.

Maybe the valves, spokes or the clincher tyre rim?

Mercian Pro

magicbastarder wrote: »

you have a copy of that link? i don't understand how aluminium wheels would trigger it.

Haven't found it yet but still looking. I did come across this thread though: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056858184

magicbastarder

we have an induction hob at home. it's the business. my party trick (for people unfamiliar with them) is to bring a milk pan of water to the boil on a ring, lift the pot and place my hand on the ring.

my parties are the stuff of legend, obviously.

anyway, the reason i mention this is that aluminium only pans will not work, or even be detected by the hob.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

we have an induction hob at home. it's the business. my party trick (for people unfamiliar with them) is to bring a milk pan of water to the boil on a ring, lift the pot and place my hand on the ring.

my parties are the stuff of legend, obviously.

anyway, the reason i mention this is that aluminium only pans will not work, or even be detected by the hob.

Don't do it while wearing that iron Viking ring!

Mercian Pro

Found it: http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/detection.htm

An extract: "Most quality adult bicycles feature aluminum rims, which are excellent conductors. Lower quality bicycles and some older bicycles feature steel rims. Steel rims have lower conductivity than aluminum rims, per pound, but perform adequately for detection over a properly adjusted quadrupole loop sensor. Extremely low-weight wheels constructed of carbon fiber with no metal in the rim are sometimes used by racing cyclists for competitions. Carbon fiber is a conductor, but the loop conductivity of the wheel is affected by the materials used to bond it into shape. Very few cyclists use carbon fiber wheels for general utilitarian or recreational use on public roadways, however, because of their very high cost and somewhat lower durability than metal wheels."

The key seems to be in having the loop specifically designed for bikes and the sensor sensitivity properly adjusted. Despite this, the one in the photo I posted, although designed for cars, worked regularly for me on a carbon bike with aluminium wheels. The motorised gate from the office car park was also triggered by the same bike once I lined the wheels up with the wire.

cruizer101

There are products available which will apparently help with this problem, they are basically a strong magnet which helps to disturb the inductive field.

Here is a review of one from what I consider a reputable source, he was actually using it on a motorbike but the same principle applies
http://www.carbibles.com/productreviews_signalsorcerer.html

No experience myself but it should work, I'm sure they can be picked up on amazon or ebay. Or just pick up a strong magnet and find some way of attaching if you have an aluminium frame.

Carawaystick

magicbastarder wrote: »

you have a copy of that link? i don't understand how aluminium wheels would trigger it.

get an aluminium hoop
hang it from a thread.
Push a bar magnet through the hoop
watch the hoop move from the induced current in the aluminium.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNu4Wbe8ZeI

tomasrojo

Chuchote wrote: »

Crazy if it's not allowed - it's the logical and fast way to cross when whole junction is green for pedestrians.

This was the post I was thinking of.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99842688&postcount=265

Maybe check_six has a link?

magicbastarder

Carawaystick wrote: »

get an aluminium hoop
hang it from a thread.
Push a bar magnet through the hoop
watch the hoop move from the induced current in the aluminium.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNu4Wbe8ZeI

yep, i wasn't thinking of loops; hence the confusion.

ED E

[Cheap alu + carbon fork rider]

It definitely varies. Some loops ignore me completely, others like earlsfort itself are picky but can be triggered and then there are ones like a small side road near me with a 100% hit rate.

Mercian Pro

ED E wrote: »

[Cheap alu + carbon fork rider]

It definitely varies. Some loops ignore me completely, others like earlsfort itself are picky but can be triggered and then there are ones like a small side road near me with a 100% hit rate.

I suspect it is down to how the sensitivity level has been set. In the article I linked, the technicians used bike wheels to adjust the sensitivity but that was in the States. Somehow I don't imagine that happens here

Dermot Illogical

ED E wrote: »

Lights in the bus lane on Stephens green & Leeson heading to Earlsfort Terrace are misconfigured like this, contacted DCC traffic but nothing was done. If no peds or busses are about its awful dodgy.

You can trigger the lights there, but you need to roll over the sensor in the bus lane on the right.

Mercian Pro

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

You can trigger the lights there, but you need to roll over the sensor in the bus lane on the right.

Pretty much as I said in post #44

Dermot Illogical

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Pretty much as I said in post #44

Whoops! The perils of not reading ahead before answering.

Captain Flaps

timmy_mallet wrote: »

I jump a few that I 'know' the sequence of, to get a head of the cars... God forbid the sequence should change

I have a tendency to go on a four way junction when all four ped. lights are on. I reckon a minor indiscretion that can be tolerated by all.

You're part of the reason people hate cyclists.

2RockMountain

Captain Flaps wrote: »

You're part of the reason people hate cyclists.

Do those same people hate cars too, given that just 12% of those who broke the lights at the Luas camera on the red line were cyclists?

http://irishcycle.com/2016/05/20/fines-for-cyclists-should-be-welcomed-but-a-bit-of-perspective-is-needed/