How to treat lights that don't recognize bikes?

Captain Flaps

2RockMountain wrote: »

Do those same people hate cars too, given that just 12% of those who broke the lights at the Luas camera on the red line were cyclists?

http://irishcycle.com/2016/05/20/fines-for-cyclists-should-be-welcomed-but-a-bit-of-perspective-is-needed/

I hate those motorists, sure. It shouldn't come as any surprise to you that there's a perception problem around cyclists from other motorists, and as such we certainly shouldn't be making a habit of breaking red lights as a matter of course (obviously OP's situation is a no-brainer, but skipping through 4 way crossings is exactly the kind of behaviour that pisses people off).

dreamerb

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Pretty much as I said in post #44

I've tried triggering the sensor several times and failed ignominiously. I've even half-laid the bike down over where the sensor should be. Any recommendation on which side of the sensor (as marked in post #44) triggers?

Mercian Pro

dreamerb wrote: »

I've tried triggering the sensor several times and failed ignominiously. I've even half-laid the bike down over where the sensor should be. Any recommendation on which side of the sensor (as marked in post #44) triggers?

It's a while since I tried it as I don't work on the Green anymore but it used to work when the bike wheels were lined up with the red lines on the left.

Dermot Illogical

dreamerb wrote: »

I've tried triggering the sensor several times and failed ignominiously. I've even half-laid the bike down over where the sensor should be. Any recommendation on which side of the sensor (as marked in post #44) triggers?

It's directly under the black stuff. They cut the road, lay the sensor down, and seal over it.

Chuchote

Maybe cyclists should all carry magnetic yoyos, and unreel them at these crossings?

2RockMountain

Captain Flaps wrote: »

I hate those motorists, sure. It shouldn't come as any surprise to you that there's a perception problem around cyclists from other motorists, and as such we certainly shouldn't be making a habit of breaking red lights as a matter of course (obviously OP's situation is a no-brainer, but skipping through 4 way crossings is exactly the kind of behaviour that pisses people off).

IMO, the best solution to the perception problem is to highlight the reality - that most road users break traffic laws most of the time. For motorists, this generally involves 1 or 2 or 3 cars flying through after the light has gone red (because amber is purely for decoration), or driving while phoning, or breaking the speed limit. It also helps to highlight the fact that more enlightened environment like Paris allow cyclists to break red lights legally when turning right (left for us), as that is generally safe and helps traffic flow.

I find these facts to be a better solution to the perception problem (though not generally a popular solution).

XR3i

i had a light system like that that was literally adding 3 minutes to my commute everyday, that solution, cut the fffing thing down wit a consaw

dreamerb

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

It's directly under the black stuff. They cut the road, lay the sensor down, and seal over it.

I do understand that but look at post 44: there are 3 distinct clear lines of "black stuff". I understand it's an induction loop but I have tried and failed to set it off at those lights, right round where Mercian Pro suggests. I'll give it another few goes and see if I can trigger it reliably. Either way, I reckon it's poor design and I should complain constructively at DCC.

ED E

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

You can trigger the lights there, but you need to roll over the sensor in the bus lane on the right.

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Pretty much as I said in post #44

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

Whoops! The perils of not reading ahead before answering.

Think you're talking about A. The one at Earlsfort/Leeson/StephensGreen where you need to be in the wrong lane as above

Where I was talking about B. The one on Earlsfort passed the NCH where you have to just come out wide (and is still picky)

Decent Skin

topcat77 wrote: »

Just wonder about peoples attitude to this.

I have always stopped at red lights but have started jumping a set of lights on my route to work which are only activated by a car (Road sensor). I only do so when no cars are waiting with me and it's safe to proceed through the lights. Should i recognize a set of lights that doesn't recognize me.

This shouldn't be an issue shortly with the school traffic starting up again it's just something that has been bugging me.

Why not get off the bike and cross at the pedestrian crossing ? That'd be both legal and safe and wouldn't run the risk of ruining yours and a driver's day (or worse) by having them hit you due to you running a red light.

cdaly_

That's fair enough on the very odd occasion when a light fails you but you shouldn't have to routinely dismount and walk because a light is not properly set up.

Dermot Illogical

dreamerb wrote: »

I do understand that but look at post 44: there are 3 distinct clear lines of "black stuff". I understand it's an induction loop but I have tried and failed to set it off at those lights, right round where Mercian Pro suggests. I'll give it another few goes and see if I can trigger it reliably. Either way, I reckon it's poor design and I should complain constructively at DCC.

I go that way whenever I commute and usually manage to trigger it by slowly zig-zagging over as much of it as I can and then lining the bike up along one of the lines.
The one further up at Earlsfort Terrace/Hatch Street I do the same but the sensor in the right lane is less sensitive than the one on he left so sometimes I need to circle over that one. They usually work though.

Chuchote

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

I go that way whenever I commute and usually manage to trigger it by slowly zig-zagging over as much of it as I can and then lining the bike up along one of the lines.
The one further up at Earlsfort Terrace/Hatch Street I do the same but the sensor in the right lane is less sensitive than the one on he left so sometimes I need to circle over that one. They usually work though.

These really don't seem to be properly set up if this kind of cycling is needed to trigger them. Why on earth not just have a "cyclist wants to cross" button on the lights, like the pedestrian ones?

Dermot Illogical

Chuchote wrote: »

These really don't seem to be properly set up if this kind of cycling is needed to trigger them. Why on earth not just have a "cyclist wants to cross" button on the lights, like the pedestrian ones?

They aren't sensitive enough really, but a button would presumably be in beside the pedestrian one. For anyone going straight ahead that would mean venturing in among the left-turning bus traffic to activate it and then moving back out to the correct lane again.

Captain Flaps

Captain Flaps wrote: »

I hate those motorists, sure. It shouldn't come as any surprise to you that there's a perception problem around cyclists from other motorists, and as such we certainly shouldn't be making a habit of breaking red lights as a matter of course (obviously OP's situation is a no-brainer, but skipping through 4 way crossings is exactly the kind of behaviour that pisses people off).

Implying you are a cyclist doesn't add any more weight to your argument.

Why aren't you arguing for more sensible infrastructure or different rules for cyclists to navigate the exponentially increasing amount of traffic calming and road furniture designed specifically to stop motor vehicles causing accidents?

As a cyclist, presuming you actually are one, you are doing nothing except further the "us and them" attitude.

traprunner

Dermot Illogical wrote: »

They aren't sensitive enough really, but a button would presumably be in beside the pedestrian one. For anyone going straight ahead that would mean venturing in among the left-turning bus traffic to activate it and then moving back out to the correct lane again.

That's where cameras should work unless it's a sunny day and they are facing east in the morning or west in the afternoon.

Dermot Illogical

traprunner wrote: »

That's where cameras should work unless it's a sunny day and they are facing east in the morning or west in the afternoon.

Or just set the sequence to include traffic going straight ahead. That's how that junction used to work.

SarahS2013

Apologies if this is changing the subject, but I've got a question which relates to cyclists and lights....

And before I get lambasted; I am a driver, a pedestrian and a cyclist - so no prejudice against any particular one!

So twice a day I cross Mount St bridge as a pedestrian on the way to and from work. In order to do this, you must cross the cycle path. However....every time I do so I nearly get flattened by cyclists coming from both directions cycling up and down the cycle lane on the canal. The pedestrain light to cross the road (including the cycle lane) is green which turns to flashing green, and the bike light is flashing orange - who should be stopping for who here? Seems like a really badly thought out plan by whoever designed the junction as the light is green for pedestrians to cross the road but then there's traffic of cyclists running the other way.

Chuchote

SarahS2013 wrote: »

Apologies if this is changing the subject, but I've got a question which relates to cyclists and lights....

And before I get lambasted; I am a driver, a pedestrian and a cyclist - so no prejudice against any particular one!

So twice a day I cross Mount St bridge as a pedestrian on the way to and from work. In order to do this, you must cross the cycle path. However....every time I do so I nearly get flattened by cyclists coming from both directions cycling up and down the cycle lane on the canal. The pedestrain light to cross the road (including the cycle lane) is green which turns to flashing green, and the bike light is flashing orange - who should be stopping for who here? Seems like a really badly thought out plan by whoever designed the junction as the light is green for pedestrians to cross the road but then there's traffic of cyclists running the other way.

Yes, I've seen cyclists acting inconsiderately on the lights along the canal.

Obviously, when a cyclist has a flashing amber at a pedestrian crossing, this is a signal to go ahead with caution and give way to pedestrians.

traprunner

Chuchote wrote: »

Yes, I've seen cyclists acting inconsiderately on the lights along the canal.

Obviously, when a cyclist has a flashing amber at a pedestrian crossing, this is a signal to go ahead with caution and give way to pedestrians.

Yep, I believe that's the way it should be. Some education is needed or just get rid of the amber light for cyclists.

Chuchote

traprunner wrote: »

Yep, I believe that's the way it should be. Some education is needed or just get rid of the amber light for cyclists.

Or a garda appearing at random from nowhere and fining people who treat pedestrians as inconvenient obstacles. (And yes, ditto for drivers who whip through red lights, who signal at the last moment and other driving-without-due-care sins.)

traprunner

Just this morning on my commute that I was marvelling the interaction of pedestrians and cyclists along the canal. There was no aggro from either parties even when cyclists or pedestrians crossed at red lights. Everything was calm and people just got on with it and went on their way. Very different than some motorists who are seething behind the wheel when a cyclist goes through a red.

SarahS2013

traprunner wrote: »

Just this morning on my commute that I was marvelling the interaction of pedestrians and cyclists along the canal. There was no aggro from either parties even when cyclists or pedestrians crossed at red lights. Everything was calm and people just got on with it and went on their way. Very different than some motorists who are seething behind the wheel when a cyclist goes through a red.

Trust me, I am just as seething when I am trying very hard not to get run over by a cyclist when crossing at this junction. :mad:

traprunner

SarahS2013 wrote: »

Trust me, I am just as seething when I am trying very hard not to get run over by a cyclist when crossing at this junction. :mad:

I was just commenting on what I saw on my commute today.

I cycle/walk or drive part of the canal daily and have seen many cyclists go through lights when pedestrians had the right of way and I have also seen many pedestrians cross when cyclists or cars have the right of way. Apart from them I've seen motor vehicles drive through red lights, through pedestrians and cyclists. I'm sure most think 'effin idiot' but just get on with it. Lack of enforcement is a big issue as Chuchote highlighted and that works for all modes of transport. If you look around the Cycling forum you'll see that cyclists have raised lack of enforcement many many times.

Decent Skin

cdaly_ wrote: »

That's fair enough on the very odd occasion when a light fails you but you shouldn't have to routinely dismount and walk because a light is not properly set up.

Agreed. But there are many such instances for all road users; including "no turn right" signs that should be time-specific as they apply to peak traffic.

Should we all ignore them and risk causing an accident that's our fault, or should we obey them while campaigning to have them fixed ?

Chuchote

Perhaps the thing to do is to call this thread, and the lights being discussed at the beginning, to the attention of the National Roads Authority?

Mercian Pro

Chuchote wrote: »

These really don't seem to be properly set up if this kind of cycling is needed to trigger them. Why on earth not just have a "cyclist wants to cross" button on the lights, like the pedestrian ones?

Why not set them up properly and mark their location on the road? This is best practice elsewhere. The example below is from Seattle:

jaqian

Decent Skin wrote: »

Why not get off the bike and cross at the pedestrian crossing ? That'd be both legal and safe and wouldn't run the risk of ruining yours and a driver's day (or worse) by having them hit you due to you running a red light.

There was a lad on this forum years ago think he was a solicitor and he said that cyclists dismounting crossing at green light and continuing their journey is legally classed as breaking a red light. Not even going to attempt to find it as wouldn't know where to start but maybe you know who I'm talking about?

micar

topcat77 wrote: »

Just wonder about peoples attitude to this.

I have always stopped at red lights but have started jumping a set of lights on my route to work which are only activated by a car (Road sensor). I only do so when no cars are waiting with me and it's safe to proceed through the lights. Should i recognize a set of lights that doesn't recognize me.

This shouldn't be an issue shortly with the school traffic starting up again it's just something that has been bugging me.

I go through this junction each morning around 6.45

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3345365,-6.2553779,3a,75y,121.83h,67.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6gD4YmsmAkjJhFIkM9o9Zw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Only buses and taxis are allowed to travel from st stephen's green to this junction.

The junction is has a sensor and I can never triggar. Not many buses/taxis travel through this junction at 6.45am.

I normally have to cycle slowly through the red light carefully each morning.

Chuchote

micar wrote: »

I go through this junction each morning around 6.45

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3345365,-6.2553779,3a,75y,121.83h,67.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6gD4YmsmAkjJhFIkM9o9Zw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Only buses and taxis are allowed to travel from st stephen's green to this junction.

The junction is has a sensor and I can never triggar. Not many buses/taxis travel through this junction at 6.45am.

I normally have to cycle slowly through the red light carefully each morning.

Surely any light that covers buses and taxis also covers bikes?