Roundabouts, because these threads are always great!

Steve

People who design roundabouts in Ireland mostly deserve to be shot, cut up and any trace of their blood line removed from evolution.

Apart from the many examples of two lanes in, one lane out - deliberate planting of foliage to obscure views on oncoming vehicles... putting traffic lights on a roundabout - a junction designed to REPLACE TRAFFIC LIGHTS - has to be the most insane of insane of civil engineering decisions..

Decent Skin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

If the left lane is filled with people indicating left or the left lane is closed for roadworks you can use the right lane to go straight, unless signposted differently of course.

My point is that you can't see those indicators.

Left lane is for the first two exits if they are before 12 o clock, definitely not the first two always. That's why it's important to actually understand the cases when using the right lane to go straight is allowed.

Untrue.

If you can see the first few people are indicating left, or enough people that you would be through the roundabout before anyone not turning left, then yes of course it makes more sense to use the right lane to go straight.

The car (or two or three) at the front of all those may be going straight on. You won't know this until you've already decided to use the right lane.

You would be asking for a crash if you entered at the tail of the Q and continued around to the second exit, from the left lane.

Left lane = first and second exit unless otherwise signposted / marked

Decent Skin

Steve wrote: »

People who design roundabouts in Ireland mostly deserve to be shot, cut up and any trace of their blood line removed from evolution.

Apart from the many examples of two lanes in, one lane out - deliberate planting of foliage to obscure views on oncoming vehicles... putting traffic lights on a roundabout - a junction designed to REPLACE TRAFFIC LIGHTS - has to be the most insane of insane of civil engineering decisions..

Not to mention some relying solely on road markings which are covered by any other cars in the queue!

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

A problem with the rules of the road is that they are open to interpretation. A perfect example has been mentioned a few times and relates to using the right lane to go straight/12 o'clock. "Where traffic conditions dictate otherwise..." while given two examples, is still open to interpretation and the very reason why there are so many opinions on how to use a roundabout "correctly".

Long line of traffic... is that 3 cars, 5 cars,10 cars? etc. etc.

If you take it that the person in the right lane is *always* going to go straight/12 o'clock (for whatever reason), then never be in the left lane to go past 12 o'clock/subsequent exits. Simple rule and should minimise any cause for an accident.

Decent Skin

Arya Modern Cartoon wrote: »

A problem with the rules of the road is that they are open to interpretation. A perfect example has been mentioned a few times and relates to using the right lane to go straight/12 o'clock. "Where traffic conditions dictate otherwise..." while given two examples, is still open to interpretation and the very reason why there are so many opinions on how to use a roundabout "correctly".

Long line of traffic... is that 3 cars, 5 cars,10 cars? etc. etc.

If you take it that the person in the right lane is *always* going to go straight/12 o'clock (for whatever reason), then never be in the left lane to go past 12 o'clock/subsequent exits. Simple rule and should minimise any cause for an accident.

Not only that, but using the "12 o'clock" phrasing is also open to interpretation unless you have a satellite map of the roundabout!

There's one in Limerick where the "straight on" is the third exit, but it's at approx the 1 o'clock position; despite this some still argue that it's "at 12 o'clock".

We queried it with the RSA and they couldn't / wouldn't give a straight answer.

The 12 o'clock thing is grand for a bog-standard 4-pointer, as the rules coincide.

But the only rule not open to interpretation is the exit number.

And beyond that the bloody things should be planned and signed properly - there's even many that have pedestrian lights so close as to make the "not stopping on a roundabout" rule impossible (one car space so if you're second you're screwed if the pedestrian lights change on exit) and a whole host of other ridiculously unplanned crap - they were basically used as a lazy cop-out to avoid planning a junction, and I'm surprised there aren't a myriad more accidents at them.

Steve

I'm sorry but that's all bollicks.

My apologies.

To clarify, I've been around boards a long time and had this same argument many times over - in this very forum.

It's always interesting every time it comes up and someone puts a new spin on it, however the sole legal obligation: 'when entering a roundabout, you must turn left' has not changed since I started driving 30 years ago and is not likely to anytime soon.

Anything beyond that, including the 'rules of the road' is fantasy.

Decent Skin

Steve wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's all bollicks.

What is ?

It's always interesting every time it comes up and someone puts a new spin on it, however the sole legal obligation: 'when entering a roundabout, you must turn left' has not changed since I started driving 30 years ago and is not likely to anytime soon.

Anything beyond that, including the 'rules of the road' is fantasy.

What about "you must give way to traffic on the roundabout" ?

Steve

Decent Skin wrote: »

What is ?

What about "you must give way to traffic on the roundabout" ?

If you can quote anything in the road traffic act that contradicts what I said then I'll gladly and humbly apologise.

Decent Skin

Steve wrote: »

If you can quote anything in the road traffic act that contradicts what I said then I'll gladly and humbly apologise.

Wasn't looking for an apology - was just curious as to which post(s) you reckoned were "bollix"

And are you saying that the RTA doesn't say "give way to traffic on the roundabout" ?

Marcusm

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Picture a roundabout exits at 12,3,6 and 9 o'clock both with two lanes.

I enter at 6 o'clock to exit at 12 o'clock in the RIGHT lane.

Jake enters the roundabout at 9 o'clock to exit at 3 o'clock in the LEFT lane.

a) who has right of way at 12 o'clock if we both arrive there at the same time?

(I assume Jake as I have to cross his lane)

b) Is it okay for Jake to join the roundabout as I'm passing as he is using the inside lane, and I the outside lane.

(Assuming myself and Jake are the only two people in D5 that have any lane discipline.)

c) Should I be changing lanes on the roundabout?

(I actually don't but I do check my mirrors prior to exiting.)

The problem arises because each of you enters the roundabout intending to head straight through and each of you has lawfully chosen a different strategy for your entry lane. In such circumstances, I adopt a practical approach such that I exit in the leg lane meaning that if, like you, I have entered in the inside lane I signal to move across once i am passing the exit before mine. If it's easier to give way, I do as I don't want scratches or a crash.

On my first day on the open road, my instructor (a lovely guy from Meath who has since taught Adele and most of One Direction) took me on a 5 lane roundabout near Wanstead/Woodford. We had to go all the way around about 7 exits and that was the only day I did it perfectly as I gave way to everyone on the lanes outside me. With roundabouts, once you are on them, I think that's the only way to make it work. Give way to the right is the rule for entering but once you're on it, practically you have to give way to the left!

Steve

Decent Skin wrote: »

Wasn't looking for an apology - was just curious as to which post(s) you reckoned were "bollix"

And are you saying that the RTA doesn't say "give way to traffic on the roundabout" ?

I'll apologise anyway, there was no need for me to be so hostile. Really no call or excuse for it. Sorry

Yes, I'm saying in all my research, there is nothing in Irish law other than 'you must turn left' in relation to roundabouts.

Marcusm

Decent Skin wrote: »

What about "you must give way to traffic on the roundabout" ?

if there are segregated/marked lanes on the roundabout you can enter so long as you don't encroach into the occupied lane. That way you are giving them their way.

Decent Skin

Marcusm wrote: »

if there are segregated/marked lanes on the roundabout you can enter so long as you don't encroach into the occupied lane. That way you are giving them their way.

Agreed. If someone is indicating right and going all the way around you could easily go into the left lane to turn left.

It'd be the equivalent of merging into a left lane of a motorway while someone was in the right lane.

But that's why it's "Yield" / "Give Way" and not "Stop".

Decent Skin

Steve wrote: »

I'll apologise anyway, there was no need for me to be so hostile. Really no call or excuse for it. Sorry

Yes, I'm saying in all my research, there is nothing in Irish law other than 'you must turn left' in relation to roundabouts.

No worries.

You could well be right too - the Yield sign at a roundabout could have its own - technically separate - rule.

Mc Love

I normally use the 1st exit 2nd exit left lane and subsequent exits use the right lane.

Marcusm

Decent Skin wrote: »

Agreed. If someone is indicating right and going all the way around you could easily go into the left lane to turn left.

It'd be the equivalent of merging into a left lane of a motorway while someone was in the right lane.

But that's why it's "Yield" / "Give Way" and not "Stop".

Stopping on a roundabout would defeat its purpose and is for morons or those who have been hit!

Marcusm

Steve wrote: »

People who design roundabouts in Ireland mostly deserve to be shot, cut up and any trace of their blood line removed from evolution.

Apart from the many examples of two lanes in, one lane out - deliberate planting of foliage to obscure views on oncoming vehicles... putting traffic lights on a roundabout - a junction designed to REPLACE TRAFFIC LIGHTS - has to be the most insane of insane of civil engineering decisions..

Permanent lights on a roundabout are silly but occasionally they are needed for rush hour. I used to drive on many good examples - 90% of inbound traffic heading in one one arm means that it's impossible for entry from some arms. Traffic lights, properly phased, can really help traffic flow in those limited circumstances but they should be shut off outside those hours. In Ireland, it almost seems as if traffic lights are permanently on (eg Stillordgan bypass) where they should be flashing ambers for much of the day/night.

Special Circumstances

Decent Skin wrote: »

Not only that, but using the "12 o'clock" phrasing is also open to interpretation unless you have a satellite map of the roundabout!

There's one in Limerick where the "straight on" is the third exit, but it's at approx the 1 o'clock position; despite this some still argue that it's "at 12 o'clock".

We queried it with the RSA and they couldn't / wouldn't give a straight answer.

Conlons? It's 12. Calling it "straight on" is the clue.

Decent Skin

Marcusm wrote: »

Stopping on a roundabout would defeat its purpose and is for morons or those who have been hit!

I was referring to the signs at entry.

Not sure how you can claim it's for morons though - there are many roundabouts with pedestrian crossings far too near to them and their absolute and utter lack of design makes it impossible not to stop on them at some point.

Marcusm

Decent Skin wrote: »

I was referring to the signs at entry.

Not sure how you can claim it's for morons though - thee are many roundabouts with pedestrian crossings far too near to them and their absolute and utter lack of design makes it impossible not to stop on them at some point.

I did say "on" the roundabout meaning after entry. I find lots of people do this when confused with their exit or when there are multiple lanes. Stopping before the roundabout is often necessary in places where a roundabout is necessary.

Kings Inns or bust

Thanks for the input folks a couple of points if I may.

This is a hypothetical - a pure one, not like the one the other day where I has a speeding ticket :pac: Please don't impute any additional scenario it's a 'perfect' two lane roundabout with the exits at bearings of 0,90,180 and 270 degrees. @ Marcusm aye - it's an odd one - stick me on the M1/M50 roundabout off the N32 and I'm grand (multiple lanes), it's the standard 2 lane scenario I just can't fathom. Practically speaking I handle it fine it's just I'd love to know the 'correct in theory' way this is done. I suppose on the larger roundabouts one moves left which makes it easier - is that the correct procedure on 2 lane roundabouts too?

I'd frequently enter the roundabout if I was turning left and something was in the right lane - is this wrong? This is where there are two lanes of exit of course so assuming the person in the right lane is going on, no issue and if they turn off taking the same exit as me they still have room.

I notice I'm more 'nippy' on roundabouts than most. I'll take the lane with the least traffic and tend to go a bit more readily. Not to the point not leaving room but I do notice the phenomenon of people not entering the roundabout if there is anything on it in either lane, others do as I do and will enter into the left lane if the left lane is clear.

frozenfrozen

Decent Skin wrote: »

My point is that you can't see those indicators.




Untrue.



The car (or two or three) at the front of all those may be going straight on. You won't know this until you've already decided to use the right lane.



Left lane = first and second exit unless otherwise signposted / marked

My whole point is the only circumstances for using the right lane to go straight is if the left lane is closed for roadworks or there's a queue of people turning left. If you can see the first few people indicating left then go. It makes no sense to queue if you could go.

Left lane is still definitely not for the first two lanes always (unless signposted..etc) what about my example with the Q, I'd link it on google maps but half of it is on 2009 images and the other half is current day..

You would be mad to take the second exit from the left lane in that case


I am 100% against people overtaking on roundabouts, and straight lining to pass a string of people in the left lane. But it is not right to say the RHL can not be used to go straight if the left lane is blocked. Even if half the people in the left lane were going left and half were continuing on straight, if it's 2 in 2 out you're actually starting to use some semblance of the traffic volume the road is capable of.

If you approach a roundabout with people in the left lane indicating left, but their exit is blocked or what have you, quite obviously the right hand lane is to be used to go straight.

Not RHL to go straight at all times like so many drivers do.


If everyone had to queue up, then why not have lights or a junction? The idea of a roundabout is to keep the flow of traffic. So you have to think outside one 'simple' first two exits in the left lane rule. What do you do if there are three exits before 12 o clock? Approach in the right lane and move left after the first two or cut across a lane as you're exiting? No.. you stay in the left lane for that third exit. Your rule broken, but on the upside you are not sideswiped by a car thinking you were continuing on around the roundabout

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Thanks for the input folks a couple of points if I may.

This is a hypothetical - a pure one, not like the one the other day where I has a speeding ticket :pac: Please don't impute any additional scenario it's a 'perfect' two lane roundabout with the exits at bearings of 0,90,180 and 270 degrees. @ Marcusm aye - it's an odd one - stick me on the M1/M50 roundabout off the N32 and I'm grand (multiple lanes), it's the standard 2 lane scenario I just can't fathom. Practically speaking I handle it fine it's just I'd love to know the 'correct in theory' way this is done. I suppose on the larger roundabouts one moves left which makes it easier - is that the correct procedure on 2 lane roundabouts too?

I'd frequently enter the roundabout if I was turning left and something was in the right lane - is this wrong? This is where there are two lanes of exit of course so assuming the person in the right lane is going on, no issue and if they turn off taking the same exit as me they still have room.

I notice I'm more 'nippy' on roundabouts than most. I'll take the lane with the least traffic and tend to go a bit more readily. Not to the point not leaving room but I do notice the phenomenon of people not entering the roundabout if there is anything on it in either lane, others do as I do and will enter into the left lane if the left lane is clear.

Moving left as you're coming to your exit is what would be done in an ideal world, then people could enter in the left lane and take the first exit while you're still on the roundabout, or they could continue straight and exit in tandem with you. Ideal world though. What happens in practise is people stay in whatever lane they ended up in, and then cut straight out just as they're passing their exit, and they would be cutting across your path if you entered like you described..

If you're turning left and there's someone in the right lane you don't know if they have been their since the very other side of the roundabout, so they would have been in the right lane (inside lane/ lane 2) correctly, but it looks to you like they're carrying on around the roundabout.. that's where the confusion starts and you just have to wait if you want to remove the chance of being side swiped..

on the being more nippy part, but it's terribly annoying when someone approaches in the right lane to go straight, when I am in the left lane, and they just block my view and I know they're a race car driver so it's going to be 'both lanes' 'inside lane' 'both lanes' as they pass through the roundabout in a straight line to get ahead.

It's putting your progress forward at the cost of others. People on the other side of the roundabout will have to yield, because they see someone coming around in the inside lane, as you won't be able to move left because you'll be driving alongside the left lane cars.

The 2 exits should really only be used when someone entering much later, happens to be taking the same exit as someone who entered the roundabout on the other side, where they couldn't see. Otherwise everyone should be moving left if the roundabout is big enough

Kings Inns or bust

frozenfrozen wrote: »

on the being more nippy part, but it's terribly annoying when someone approaches in the right lane to go straight, when I am in the left lane, and they just block my view and I know they're a race car driver so it's going to be 'both lanes' 'inside lane' 'both lanes' as they pass through the roundabout in a straight line to get ahead.

The problem is different people drive with differnt styles. Where I am if there was only one lane onto roundabouts the combination of people on phones and auld wans would make it far quicker to walk. As for poor lane discipline, I find the extremely annoying.

In my case I'm left lane going straight on 2 roundabouts then right lane going right on a third. People actually get pissy about people using the left lane to do straight on as a merge is required after the roundabout so the 'polite' thing to do is actually be in the right lane. That said my attitude is as long as someone isn't breaking a rule they're free to drive as they wish. Personally I always try and be courteous, it's made bloody difficult by some though! :pac:

Decent Skin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

My whole point is the only circumstances for using the right lane to go straight is if the left lane is closed for roadworks or there's a queue of people turning left. If you can see the first few people indicating left then go. It makes no sense to queue if you could go.

Left lane is still definitely not for the first two lanes always (unless signposted..etc) what about my example with the Q, I'd link it on google maps but half of it is on 2009 images and the other half is current day..

You would be mad to take the second exit from the left lane in that case


I am 100% against people overtaking on roundabouts, and straight lining to pass a string of people in the left lane. But it is not right to say the RHL can not be used to go straight if the left lane is blocked. Even if half the people in the left lane were going left and half were continuing on straight, if it's 2 in 2 out you're actually starting to use some semblance of the traffic volume the road is capable of.

If you approach a roundabout with people in the left lane indicating left, but their exit is blocked or what have you, quite obviously the right hand lane is to be used to go straight.

Not RHL to go straight at all times like so many drivers do.


If everyone had to queue up, then why not have lights or a junction? The idea of a roundabout is to keep the flow of traffic. So you have to think outside one 'simple' first two exits in the left lane rule. What do you do if there are three exits before 12 o clock? Approach in the right lane and move left after the first two or cut across a lane as you're exiting? No.. you stay in the left lane for that third exit. Your rule broken, but on the upside you are not sideswiped by a car thinking you were continuing on around the roundabout



Moving left as you're coming to your exit is what would be done in an ideal world, then people could enter in the left lane and take the first exit while you're still on the roundabout, or they could continue straight and exit in tandem with you. Ideal world though. What happens in practise is people stay in whatever lane they ended up in, and then cut straight out just as they're passing their exit, and they would be cutting across your path if you entered like you described..

If you're turning left and there's someone in the right lane you don't know if they have been their since the very other side of the roundabout, so they would have been in the right lane (inside lane/ lane 2) correctly, but it looks to you like they're carrying on around the roundabout.. that's where the confusion starts and you just have to wait if you want to remove the chance of being side swiped..

on the being more nippy part, but it's terribly annoying when someone approaches in the right lane to go straight, when I am in the left lane, and they just block my view and I know they're a race car driver so it's going to be 'both lanes' 'inside lane' 'both lanes' as they pass through the roundabout in a straight line to get ahead.

It's putting your progress forward at the cost of others. People on the other side of the roundabout will have to yield, because they see someone coming around in the inside lane, as you won't be able to move left because you'll be driving alongside the left lane cars.

The 2 exits should really only be used when someone entering much later, happens to be taking the same exit as someone who entered the roundabout on the other side, where they couldn't see. Otherwise everyone should be moving left if the roundabout is big enough

You seem to be making up a lot of rules as you go there.

Not having a go in saying that; just pointing out that what you have decided "makes sense" and what other L's have decided - particularly in relation to the "12 o'clock" lark, and the that having passed the first few cars the remaining ones could be going straight through and will have right of way over you on the roundabout, causing you to block the other lane on it - could be completely different.

This means that there's more of a likelihood off an accident.

Who gets to decide whether an exit is 12 o'clock or 12:30 or 12:15 ?

frozenfrozen

Decent Skin wrote: »

You seem to be making up a lot of rules as you go there.

Not having a go in saying that; just pointing out that what you have decided "makes sense" and what other L's have decided - particularly in relation to the "12 o'clock" lark, and the that having passed the first few cars the remaining ones could be going straight through and will have right of way over you on the roundabout, causing you to block the other lane on it - could be completely different.

This means that there's more of a likelihood off an accident.

Who gets to decide whether an exit is 12 o'clock or 12:30 or 12:15 ?

don't be a pedant. not having a go or anything. but fucking seriously, 12:15?

Do you think I made up the rules? I took the example of the right hand lane to go straight from the RSA.

You still haven't replied to how your first two exits always rule falls to pieces in a lot of examples of real world roundabouts.

It's starting to look like you just want to disagree because you haven't actually addressed anything I said other than consistently mentioning "12 o clock" in quotes because you want to distance yourself from that concept.

What "makes sense" is driving with "common sense", not following some ridiculous one fits all rule of "first two exits in the left lane, all other exits in the right lane" nonsense.

Decent Skin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

don't be a pedant. not having a go or anything. but fucking seriously, 12:15?

Do you think I made up the rules? I took the example of the right hand lane to go straight from the RSA.

You still haven't replied to how your first two exits always rule falls to pieces in a lot of examples of real world roundabouts.

It's starting to look like you just want to disagree because you haven't actually addressed anything I said other than consistently mentioning "12 o clock" in quotes because you want to distance yourself from that concept.

What "makes sense" is driving with "common sense", not following some ridiculous one fits all rule of "first two exits in the left lane, all other exits in the right lane" nonsense.

You must have missed where I said that some roundabouts are signed differently, and at no stage issued a "one fits all" statement.

Your own "12 o'clock rule" falls apart on many real-world roundabouts too, yet you took exception to examples where the 12 o'clock isn't "straight on" because those expose that.

Where does 12 o'clock end ? 1 o'clock ? What if someone disagrees with you. ?

I'd rather be a pedant than cause a crash.

The problem with relying on "common sense" is that it's a misnomer - it's not all that common.

Caliden

I use the signs before the roundabout as a definition of "what's classified as straight on" and then the road markings take precedent (if any).

frozenfrozen

Decent Skin wrote: »

You must have missed where I said that some roundabouts are signed differently, and at no stage issued a "one fits all" statement.

And I'd rather be a pedant than cause a crash.

The problem with relying on "common sense" is that it's a misnomer - it's not all that common.

I continually wrote unless signposted etc.. You know that's what I meant, I left it out after about 6 replies.

if you're just looking for an argument I'm not interested, if you want to bother talking about roundabouts come back with a little diagram or link to somewhere on google maps but I'm not interested in your pedantry of "who decides whether it's 12:15" that says it all.

Also the 'problem with common sense', I was pointing that at you, since you couldn't get your head around the left lane being full bit. You were very hung up on not being able to see "everyones" indicator and looking for a count of how many cars would count. Common sense needed in that situation.


I see you ninja edited while I was typing and I can't be arsed deleting all that so here's your new post too

You must have missed where I said that some roundabouts are signed differently, and at no stage issued a "one fits all" statement.

Your own "12 o'clock rule" falls apart on many real-world roundabouts too, yet you took exception to examples where the 12 o'clock isn't "straight on" because those expose that.

Where does 12 o'clock end ? 1 o'clock ? What if someone disagrees with you. ?

I'd rather be a pedant than cause a crash.

The problem with relying on "common sense" is that it's a misnomer - it's not all that common.

no idea what you mean with me taking exception to 12 o clock not being straight on, don't know where the quotes have come from either, quote what you're talking about there.

where does 12 o clock end, where does your pedantry end.


I'll try start again.

Go back to my post with the excerpt from the RSA's ROTR document. That's how you can use the right hand lane to go straight.

The first two lanes rule, is nonsense if you have three lanes before 12 o clock.

I won't jump in the mud and wrestle with you over 12:15 and who gets to decide.

Decent Skin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I continually wrote unless signposted etc.. You know that's what I meant, I left it out after about 6 replies.

if you're just looking for an argument I'm not interested, if you want to bother talking about roundabouts come back with a little diagram or link to somewhere on google maps but I'm not interested in your pedantry of "who decides whether it's 12:15" that says it all.

Also the 'problem with common sense', I was pointing that at you, since you couldn't get your head around the left lane being full bit. You were very hung up on not being able to see "everyones" indicator and looking for a count of how many cars would count. Common sense needed in that situation.


I see you ninja edited while I was typing and I can't be arsed deleting all that so here's your new post too



no idea what you mean with me taking exception to 12 o clock not being straight on, don't know where the quotes have come from either, quote what you're talking about there.

where does 12 o clock end, where does your pedantry end.


I'll try start again.

Go back to my post with the excerpt from the RSA's ROTR document. That's how you can use the right hand lane to go straight.

The first two lanes rule, is nonsense if you have three lanes before 12 o clock.

I won't jump in the mud and wrestle with you over 12:15 and who gets to decide.

OK - so you want to have a rule that allows you to use a left lane for 3 lanes before 12 o'clock, but yet you refuse to discuss what YOU mean by "12 o'clock" ?

This despite the fact that I already mentioned a previous discussion about a roundabout in which someone applied a "12 o'clock rule" to an exit at 1 o'clock and claimed they were correct ?

I "got my head around" the left lane no bother, thanks, so no need for the condescending phrasing - if there are two / three / four cars at the front then you will be in the "wrong" lane, as they will be going straight on, but you relied on the first few indicators.

What do you, personally, do in that scenario ? Do you go all the way around the roundabout and try to exit again ? After all you're not allowed to stop.

Or does your own personal common sense kick in again, with everyone else unaware of what you've decided ?

BTW I've no idea what prompted the attack re "couldn't get your head around", but can we leave that there and actually discuss the topic without that attitude ? As I'm not interested in an argument either.

Thanks

frozenfrozen

Decent Skin wrote: »

OK - so you want to have a rule that allows you to use a left lane for 3 lanes before 12 o'clock, but yet you refuse to discuss what YOU mean by "12 o'clock" ?

This despite the fact that I already mentioned a previous discussion about a roundabout in which someone applied a "12 o'clock rule" to an exit at 1 o'clock and claimed they were correct ?

I "got my head around" the left lane no bother, thanks, so no need for the condescending phrasing - if there are two / three / four cars at the front then you will be in the "wrong" lane, as they will be going straight on, but you relied on the first few indicators.

What do you, personally, do in that scenario ? Do you go all the way around the roundabout and try to exit again ? After all you're not allowed to stop.

Or does your own personal common sense kick in again, with everyone else unaware of what you've decided ?

BTW I've no idea what prompted the attack re "couldn't get your head around", but can we leave that there and actually discuss the topic without that attitude ? As I'm not interested in an argument either.

Thanks

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm refusing to give a moments thought to your pedanty re: 12:15. 12 o clock is very obviously straight through a roundabout. Look at the sign as you approach the roundabout and you'll see which exit is straight across.

No idea what the second line is about. Did I say it?

Don't be so easily offended. By get your head around I clearly mean it took me a number of posts to attempt to explain it to you and you kept getting caught up on small details which would have not been an issue had you used a bit of common sense. You either found it hard to get your head around it or you were being obtuse.

What do I do personally, in what scenario? I have only ever used the right lane to go straight when the left lane has been full of congested traffic all turning left. If one of them had continued on I would have exited in tandem with them had there been two exit lanes, if not two exits I would've changed my speed to get there before or after them, and if needing to abort then I would continue around the roundabout. What's so hard about that situation?

No idea what you mean about my common sense kicking in. I follow system, nothing is left to chance and I don't rely on other vehicles ever continuing doing what they already were, or making the right decision.

It wasn't an attack. And there is no attitude, I gave a terrible diagram that you completely ignored, yet you're getting into pedantry over this 12:15 'lark'

Can you confirm that you understand I don't use the right lane to go straight through roundabouts? I am trying really very hard to explain the cases when it is OK to do so, but it seems like you think I do it at every roundabout. I don't.


At this point we're arguing about arguing. Please post a diagram or link to somewhere on google maps if you want to know what I would do in a certain situation, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised that we would both be following the same rules of the road, except in the case of the left lane being congested.