Roundabouts, because these threads are always great!

Kings Inns or bust

Thanks for the input folks a couple of points if I may.

This is a hypothetical - a pure one, not like the one the other day where I has a speeding ticket :pac: Please don't impute any additional scenario it's a 'perfect' two lane roundabout with the exits at bearings of 0,90,180 and 270 degrees. @ Marcusm aye - it's an odd one - stick me on the M1/M50 roundabout off the N32 and I'm grand (multiple lanes), it's the standard 2 lane scenario I just can't fathom. Practically speaking I handle it fine it's just I'd love to know the 'correct in theory' way this is done. I suppose on the larger roundabouts one moves left which makes it easier - is that the correct procedure on 2 lane roundabouts too?

I'd frequently enter the roundabout if I was turning left and something was in the right lane - is this wrong? This is where there are two lanes of exit of course so assuming the person in the right lane is going on, no issue and if they turn off taking the same exit as me they still have room.

I notice I'm more 'nippy' on roundabouts than most. I'll take the lane with the least traffic and tend to go a bit more readily. Not to the point not leaving room but I do notice the phenomenon of people not entering the roundabout if there is anything on it in either lane, others do as I do and will enter into the left lane if the left lane is clear.

frozenfrozen

Decent Skin wrote: »

My point is that you can't see those indicators.




Untrue.



The car (or two or three) at the front of all those may be going straight on. You won't know this until you've already decided to use the right lane.



Left lane = first and second exit unless otherwise signposted / marked

My whole point is the only circumstances for using the right lane to go straight is if the left lane is closed for roadworks or there's a queue of people turning left. If you can see the first few people indicating left then go. It makes no sense to queue if you could go.

Left lane is still definitely not for the first two lanes always (unless signposted..etc) what about my example with the Q, I'd link it on google maps but half of it is on 2009 images and the other half is current day..

You would be mad to take the second exit from the left lane in that case


I am 100% against people overtaking on roundabouts, and straight lining to pass a string of people in the left lane. But it is not right to say the RHL can not be used to go straight if the left lane is blocked. Even if half the people in the left lane were going left and half were continuing on straight, if it's 2 in 2 out you're actually starting to use some semblance of the traffic volume the road is capable of.

If you approach a roundabout with people in the left lane indicating left, but their exit is blocked or what have you, quite obviously the right hand lane is to be used to go straight.

Not RHL to go straight at all times like so many drivers do.


If everyone had to queue up, then why not have lights or a junction? The idea of a roundabout is to keep the flow of traffic. So you have to think outside one 'simple' first two exits in the left lane rule. What do you do if there are three exits before 12 o clock? Approach in the right lane and move left after the first two or cut across a lane as you're exiting? No.. you stay in the left lane for that third exit. Your rule broken, but on the upside you are not sideswiped by a car thinking you were continuing on around the roundabout

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Thanks for the input folks a couple of points if I may.

This is a hypothetical - a pure one, not like the one the other day where I has a speeding ticket :pac: Please don't impute any additional scenario it's a 'perfect' two lane roundabout with the exits at bearings of 0,90,180 and 270 degrees. @ Marcusm aye - it's an odd one - stick me on the M1/M50 roundabout off the N32 and I'm grand (multiple lanes), it's the standard 2 lane scenario I just can't fathom. Practically speaking I handle it fine it's just I'd love to know the 'correct in theory' way this is done. I suppose on the larger roundabouts one moves left which makes it easier - is that the correct procedure on 2 lane roundabouts too?

I'd frequently enter the roundabout if I was turning left and something was in the right lane - is this wrong? This is where there are two lanes of exit of course so assuming the person in the right lane is going on, no issue and if they turn off taking the same exit as me they still have room.

I notice I'm more 'nippy' on roundabouts than most. I'll take the lane with the least traffic and tend to go a bit more readily. Not to the point not leaving room but I do notice the phenomenon of people not entering the roundabout if there is anything on it in either lane, others do as I do and will enter into the left lane if the left lane is clear.

Moving left as you're coming to your exit is what would be done in an ideal world, then people could enter in the left lane and take the first exit while you're still on the roundabout, or they could continue straight and exit in tandem with you. Ideal world though. What happens in practise is people stay in whatever lane they ended up in, and then cut straight out just as they're passing their exit, and they would be cutting across your path if you entered like you described..

If you're turning left and there's someone in the right lane you don't know if they have been their since the very other side of the roundabout, so they would have been in the right lane (inside lane/ lane 2) correctly, but it looks to you like they're carrying on around the roundabout.. that's where the confusion starts and you just have to wait if you want to remove the chance of being side swiped..

on the being more nippy part, but it's terribly annoying when someone approaches in the right lane to go straight, when I am in the left lane, and they just block my view and I know they're a race car driver so it's going to be 'both lanes' 'inside lane' 'both lanes' as they pass through the roundabout in a straight line to get ahead.

It's putting your progress forward at the cost of others. People on the other side of the roundabout will have to yield, because they see someone coming around in the inside lane, as you won't be able to move left because you'll be driving alongside the left lane cars.

The 2 exits should really only be used when someone entering much later, happens to be taking the same exit as someone who entered the roundabout on the other side, where they couldn't see. Otherwise everyone should be moving left if the roundabout is big enough

Kings Inns or bust

frozenfrozen wrote: »

on the being more nippy part, but it's terribly annoying when someone approaches in the right lane to go straight, when I am in the left lane, and they just block my view and I know they're a race car driver so it's going to be 'both lanes' 'inside lane' 'both lanes' as they pass through the roundabout in a straight line to get ahead.

The problem is different people drive with differnt styles. Where I am if there was only one lane onto roundabouts the combination of people on phones and auld wans would make it far quicker to walk. As for poor lane discipline, I find the extremely annoying.

In my case I'm left lane going straight on 2 roundabouts then right lane going right on a third. People actually get pissy about people using the left lane to do straight on as a merge is required after the roundabout so the 'polite' thing to do is actually be in the right lane. That said my attitude is as long as someone isn't breaking a rule they're free to drive as they wish. Personally I always try and be courteous, it's made bloody difficult by some though! :pac:

Decent Skin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

My whole point is the only circumstances for using the right lane to go straight is if the left lane is closed for roadworks or there's a queue of people turning left. If you can see the first few people indicating left then go. It makes no sense to queue if you could go.

Left lane is still definitely not for the first two lanes always (unless signposted..etc) what about my example with the Q, I'd link it on google maps but half of it is on 2009 images and the other half is current day..

You would be mad to take the second exit from the left lane in that case


I am 100% against people overtaking on roundabouts, and straight lining to pass a string of people in the left lane. But it is not right to say the RHL can not be used to go straight if the left lane is blocked. Even if half the people in the left lane were going left and half were continuing on straight, if it's 2 in 2 out you're actually starting to use some semblance of the traffic volume the road is capable of.

If you approach a roundabout with people in the left lane indicating left, but their exit is blocked or what have you, quite obviously the right hand lane is to be used to go straight.

Not RHL to go straight at all times like so many drivers do.


If everyone had to queue up, then why not have lights or a junction? The idea of a roundabout is to keep the flow of traffic. So you have to think outside one 'simple' first two exits in the left lane rule. What do you do if there are three exits before 12 o clock? Approach in the right lane and move left after the first two or cut across a lane as you're exiting? No.. you stay in the left lane for that third exit. Your rule broken, but on the upside you are not sideswiped by a car thinking you were continuing on around the roundabout



Moving left as you're coming to your exit is what would be done in an ideal world, then people could enter in the left lane and take the first exit while you're still on the roundabout, or they could continue straight and exit in tandem with you. Ideal world though. What happens in practise is people stay in whatever lane they ended up in, and then cut straight out just as they're passing their exit, and they would be cutting across your path if you entered like you described..

If you're turning left and there's someone in the right lane you don't know if they have been their since the very other side of the roundabout, so they would have been in the right lane (inside lane/ lane 2) correctly, but it looks to you like they're carrying on around the roundabout.. that's where the confusion starts and you just have to wait if you want to remove the chance of being side swiped..

on the being more nippy part, but it's terribly annoying when someone approaches in the right lane to go straight, when I am in the left lane, and they just block my view and I know they're a race car driver so it's going to be 'both lanes' 'inside lane' 'both lanes' as they pass through the roundabout in a straight line to get ahead.

It's putting your progress forward at the cost of others. People on the other side of the roundabout will have to yield, because they see someone coming around in the inside lane, as you won't be able to move left because you'll be driving alongside the left lane cars.

The 2 exits should really only be used when someone entering much later, happens to be taking the same exit as someone who entered the roundabout on the other side, where they couldn't see. Otherwise everyone should be moving left if the roundabout is big enough

You seem to be making up a lot of rules as you go there.

Not having a go in saying that; just pointing out that what you have decided "makes sense" and what other L's have decided - particularly in relation to the "12 o'clock" lark, and the that having passed the first few cars the remaining ones could be going straight through and will have right of way over you on the roundabout, causing you to block the other lane on it - could be completely different.

This means that there's more of a likelihood off an accident.

Who gets to decide whether an exit is 12 o'clock or 12:30 or 12:15 ?

frozenfrozen

Decent Skin wrote: »

You seem to be making up a lot of rules as you go there.

Not having a go in saying that; just pointing out that what you have decided "makes sense" and what other L's have decided - particularly in relation to the "12 o'clock" lark, and the that having passed the first few cars the remaining ones could be going straight through and will have right of way over you on the roundabout, causing you to block the other lane on it - could be completely different.

This means that there's more of a likelihood off an accident.

Who gets to decide whether an exit is 12 o'clock or 12:30 or 12:15 ?

don't be a pedant. not having a go or anything. but fucking seriously, 12:15?

Do you think I made up the rules? I took the example of the right hand lane to go straight from the RSA.

You still haven't replied to how your first two exits always rule falls to pieces in a lot of examples of real world roundabouts.

It's starting to look like you just want to disagree because you haven't actually addressed anything I said other than consistently mentioning "12 o clock" in quotes because you want to distance yourself from that concept.

What "makes sense" is driving with "common sense", not following some ridiculous one fits all rule of "first two exits in the left lane, all other exits in the right lane" nonsense.

Decent Skin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

don't be a pedant. not having a go or anything. but fucking seriously, 12:15?

Do you think I made up the rules? I took the example of the right hand lane to go straight from the RSA.

You still haven't replied to how your first two exits always rule falls to pieces in a lot of examples of real world roundabouts.

It's starting to look like you just want to disagree because you haven't actually addressed anything I said other than consistently mentioning "12 o clock" in quotes because you want to distance yourself from that concept.

What "makes sense" is driving with "common sense", not following some ridiculous one fits all rule of "first two exits in the left lane, all other exits in the right lane" nonsense.

You must have missed where I said that some roundabouts are signed differently, and at no stage issued a "one fits all" statement.

Your own "12 o'clock rule" falls apart on many real-world roundabouts too, yet you took exception to examples where the 12 o'clock isn't "straight on" because those expose that.

Where does 12 o'clock end ? 1 o'clock ? What if someone disagrees with you. ?

I'd rather be a pedant than cause a crash.

The problem with relying on "common sense" is that it's a misnomer - it's not all that common.

Caliden

I use the signs before the roundabout as a definition of "what's classified as straight on" and then the road markings take precedent (if any).

frozenfrozen

Decent Skin wrote: »

You must have missed where I said that some roundabouts are signed differently, and at no stage issued a "one fits all" statement.

And I'd rather be a pedant than cause a crash.

The problem with relying on "common sense" is that it's a misnomer - it's not all that common.

I continually wrote unless signposted etc.. You know that's what I meant, I left it out after about 6 replies.

if you're just looking for an argument I'm not interested, if you want to bother talking about roundabouts come back with a little diagram or link to somewhere on google maps but I'm not interested in your pedantry of "who decides whether it's 12:15" that says it all.

Also the 'problem with common sense', I was pointing that at you, since you couldn't get your head around the left lane being full bit. You were very hung up on not being able to see "everyones" indicator and looking for a count of how many cars would count. Common sense needed in that situation.


I see you ninja edited while I was typing and I can't be arsed deleting all that so here's your new post too

You must have missed where I said that some roundabouts are signed differently, and at no stage issued a "one fits all" statement.

Your own "12 o'clock rule" falls apart on many real-world roundabouts too, yet you took exception to examples where the 12 o'clock isn't "straight on" because those expose that.

Where does 12 o'clock end ? 1 o'clock ? What if someone disagrees with you. ?

I'd rather be a pedant than cause a crash.

The problem with relying on "common sense" is that it's a misnomer - it's not all that common.

no idea what you mean with me taking exception to 12 o clock not being straight on, don't know where the quotes have come from either, quote what you're talking about there.

where does 12 o clock end, where does your pedantry end.


I'll try start again.

Go back to my post with the excerpt from the RSA's ROTR document. That's how you can use the right hand lane to go straight.

The first two lanes rule, is nonsense if you have three lanes before 12 o clock.

I won't jump in the mud and wrestle with you over 12:15 and who gets to decide.

Decent Skin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I continually wrote unless signposted etc.. You know that's what I meant, I left it out after about 6 replies.

if you're just looking for an argument I'm not interested, if you want to bother talking about roundabouts come back with a little diagram or link to somewhere on google maps but I'm not interested in your pedantry of "who decides whether it's 12:15" that says it all.

Also the 'problem with common sense', I was pointing that at you, since you couldn't get your head around the left lane being full bit. You were very hung up on not being able to see "everyones" indicator and looking for a count of how many cars would count. Common sense needed in that situation.


I see you ninja edited while I was typing and I can't be arsed deleting all that so here's your new post too



no idea what you mean with me taking exception to 12 o clock not being straight on, don't know where the quotes have come from either, quote what you're talking about there.

where does 12 o clock end, where does your pedantry end.


I'll try start again.

Go back to my post with the excerpt from the RSA's ROTR document. That's how you can use the right hand lane to go straight.

The first two lanes rule, is nonsense if you have three lanes before 12 o clock.

I won't jump in the mud and wrestle with you over 12:15 and who gets to decide.

OK - so you want to have a rule that allows you to use a left lane for 3 lanes before 12 o'clock, but yet you refuse to discuss what YOU mean by "12 o'clock" ?

This despite the fact that I already mentioned a previous discussion about a roundabout in which someone applied a "12 o'clock rule" to an exit at 1 o'clock and claimed they were correct ?

I "got my head around" the left lane no bother, thanks, so no need for the condescending phrasing - if there are two / three / four cars at the front then you will be in the "wrong" lane, as they will be going straight on, but you relied on the first few indicators.

What do you, personally, do in that scenario ? Do you go all the way around the roundabout and try to exit again ? After all you're not allowed to stop.

Or does your own personal common sense kick in again, with everyone else unaware of what you've decided ?

BTW I've no idea what prompted the attack re "couldn't get your head around", but can we leave that there and actually discuss the topic without that attitude ? As I'm not interested in an argument either.

Thanks

frozenfrozen

Decent Skin wrote: »

OK - so you want to have a rule that allows you to use a left lane for 3 lanes before 12 o'clock, but yet you refuse to discuss what YOU mean by "12 o'clock" ?

This despite the fact that I already mentioned a previous discussion about a roundabout in which someone applied a "12 o'clock rule" to an exit at 1 o'clock and claimed they were correct ?

I "got my head around" the left lane no bother, thanks, so no need for the condescending phrasing - if there are two / three / four cars at the front then you will be in the "wrong" lane, as they will be going straight on, but you relied on the first few indicators.

What do you, personally, do in that scenario ? Do you go all the way around the roundabout and try to exit again ? After all you're not allowed to stop.

Or does your own personal common sense kick in again, with everyone else unaware of what you've decided ?

BTW I've no idea what prompted the attack re "couldn't get your head around", but can we leave that there and actually discuss the topic without that attitude ? As I'm not interested in an argument either.

Thanks

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm refusing to give a moments thought to your pedanty re: 12:15. 12 o clock is very obviously straight through a roundabout. Look at the sign as you approach the roundabout and you'll see which exit is straight across.

No idea what the second line is about. Did I say it?

Don't be so easily offended. By get your head around I clearly mean it took me a number of posts to attempt to explain it to you and you kept getting caught up on small details which would have not been an issue had you used a bit of common sense. You either found it hard to get your head around it or you were being obtuse.

What do I do personally, in what scenario? I have only ever used the right lane to go straight when the left lane has been full of congested traffic all turning left. If one of them had continued on I would have exited in tandem with them had there been two exit lanes, if not two exits I would've changed my speed to get there before or after them, and if needing to abort then I would continue around the roundabout. What's so hard about that situation?

No idea what you mean about my common sense kicking in. I follow system, nothing is left to chance and I don't rely on other vehicles ever continuing doing what they already were, or making the right decision.

It wasn't an attack. And there is no attitude, I gave a terrible diagram that you completely ignored, yet you're getting into pedantry over this 12:15 'lark'

Can you confirm that you understand I don't use the right lane to go straight through roundabouts? I am trying really very hard to explain the cases when it is OK to do so, but it seems like you think I do it at every roundabout. I don't.


At this point we're arguing about arguing. Please post a diagram or link to somewhere on google maps if you want to know what I would do in a certain situation, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised that we would both be following the same rules of the road, except in the case of the left lane being congested.

Decent Skin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth. I'm refusing to give a moments thought to your pedanty re: 12:15. 12 o clock is very obviously straight through a roundabout. Look at the sign as you approach the roundabout and you'll see which exit is straight across.

No idea what the second line is about. Did I say it?

Don't be so easily offended. By get your head around I clearly mean it took me a number of posts to attempt to explain it to you and you kept getting caught up on small details which would have not been an issue had you used a bit of common sense. You either found it hard to get your head around it or you were being obtuse.

What do I do personally, in what scenario? I have only ever used the right lane to go straight when the left lane has been full of congested traffic all turning left. If one of them had continued on I would have exited in tandem with them had there been two exit lanes, if not two exits I would've changed my speed to get there before or after them, and if needing to abort then I would continue around the roundabout. What's so hard about that situation?

No idea what you mean about my common sense kicking in. I follow system, nothing is left to chance and I don't rely on other vehicles ever continuing doing what they already were, or making the right decision.

It wasn't an attack. And there is no attitude, I gave a terrible diagram that you completely ignored, yet you're getting into pedantry over this 12:15 'lark'

Can you confirm that you understand I don't use the right lane to go straight through roundabouts? I am trying really very hard to explain the cases when it is OK to do so, but it seems like you think I do it at every roundabout. I don't.


At this point we're arguing about arguing. Please post a diagram or link to somewhere on google maps if you want to know what I would do in a certain situation, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised that we would both be following the same rules of the road, except in the case of the left lane being congested.

Coming from the bottom of the pic, which lane would you use to go to the top right of the pic ?

Some would argue that it's "12 o'clock", some that it's 12:30 or 1, meaning they'd use different lanes depending on their agreement or otherwise with what you say.

"Left lane for first 2 exits" removes ambiguity and potential for unnecessary stress and possible accidents.

grogi

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Picture a roundabout exits at 12,3,6 and 9 o'clock both with two lanes. /cut/

a) Jake has right of way.
b) Yes, it is ok. But I stopped doing so to avoid dodgy situations.
c) IMHO - yes. It is easier to do it in advance... Change to the outerlane at 9.

grogi

Decent Skin wrote: »

"Left lane for first 2 exits" removes ambiguity and potential for unnecessary stress and possible accidents.

Left lane for first exit does. Any other setup does not...

Decent Skin

grogi wrote: »

Left lane for first exit does. Any other setup does not...

OK - reduces instead of removes.

frozenfrozen

Decent Skin wrote: »

Coming from the bottom of the pic, which lane would you use to go to the top right of the pic ?

Some would argue that it's "12 o'clock", some that it's 12:30 or 1, meaning they'd use different lanes depending on their agreement or otherwise with what you say.

"Left lane for first 2 exits" removes ambiguity and potential for unnecessary stress and possible accidents.

I would go in the right lane and move left to exit from a quick glance at that. The exit is definitely past 12 o clock.

So by your rule we would both be doing the same thing..

However if flipped and you were at this roundabout https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.6796023,-8.6958222,580m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

you would potentially cause a crash by following your left lane for the first two exits rule. Without a doubt in this case left lane for exits before 12 o clock is the only appropriate rule for this roundabout

DakarVert

You come to a roundabout and there's no traffic on it. Who has right of way?


(This was a question asked on my driving test)

frozenfrozen

vehicles approaching from the right

Decent Skin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I would go in the right lane and move left to exit from a quick glance at that. The exit is definitely past 12 o clock.

So by your rule we would both be doing the same thing..

However if flipped and you were at this roundabout https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.6796023,-8.6958222,580m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

you would potentially cause a crash by following your left lane for the first two exits rule. Without a doubt in this case left lane for exits before 12 o clock is the only appropriate rule for this roundabout

Never argued with you re a three-point roundabout.

My point was that "12 o'clock" is too vague, with "ah sure it's close enough" used to justify dangerous manoeuvres, whereas "first two exits" is definitive.

Special Circumstances

Decent Skin wrote: »

Coming from the bottom of the pic, which lane would you use to go to the top right of the pic ?

Some would argue that it's "12 o'clock", some that it's 12:30 or 1, meaning they'd use different lanes depending on their agreement or otherwise with what you say.

"Left lane for first 2 exits" removes ambiguity and potential for unnecessary stress and possible accidents.

Oh, you meant that entry/exit at Conlans roundabout. I retract my earlier statement - I thought you meant the "main" roads in and out of it.

That one you described is a bit ambigious - if you're in one lane coming in there it's 50/50 if the person in the lane next to you is going for the same exit. Considering also the flow of traffic from the right, it's manouevre that suits as close to full bore launch as you think the surface will take and leave any competitors for that exit well behind. A small degree of countersteer may be necessary :pac: :pac::pac:
I wouldn't like to be doing it at peak times in a 1.4 Focus though.


People designing roundabouts seem to put cost before ease of navigation and well before traffic flow. That roundabout is getting worse and worse

Mc Love

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Oh, you meant that entry/exit at Conlans roundabout. I retract my earlier statement - I thought you meant the "main" roads in and out of it.

That one you described is a bit ambigious - if you're in one lane coming in there it's 50/50 if the person in the lane next to you is going for the same exit. Considering also the flow of traffic from the right, it's manouevre that suits as close to full bore launch as you think the surface will take and leave any competitors for that exit well behind. A small degree of countersteer may be necessary :pac: :pac::pac:
I wouldn't like to be doing it at peak times in a 1.4 Focus though.


People designing roundabouts seem to put cost before ease of navigation and well before traffic flow. That roundabout is getting worse and worse

I dont have any issue with the roundabout at Conlons. The one down by the Cement Factory is one that seems to divide opinion though

Decent Skin

Mc Love wrote: »

I dont have any issue with the roundabout at Conlons. The one down by the Cement Factory is one that seems to divide opinion though

Because exit 2 (coming from Raheen) is into the Cement Factory ?

Special Circumstances

Mc Love wrote: »

I dont have any issue with the roundabout at Conlons. The one down by the Cement Factory is one that seems to divide opinion though

How so? Apart from being a bad solution/size/incident angles for the traffic flow, the lane choices are fairly straight forward I thought?

welll, which one - town side or mungret side?

Decent Skin

Special Circumstances wrote: »

How so? Apart from being a bad solution/size/incident angles for the traffic flow, the lane choices are fairly straight forward I thought?

welll, which one - town side or mungret side?

I'd suspect that it's a question of which lane to use when going from Raheen to the tunnel ? 3rd exit but could be viewed as being "straight on".

Coming off the motorway into the Cement Factory would be similar, but probably not enough traffic to be a real issue.

Mc Love

I've been asked if coming from Raheen - which lane to take if going to dock road, you'd think its fairly straight forward, but they were of the assumption that you'd stay in the left lane!! Quickly corrected them to going in the right lane. Also if I was coming from Raheen and heading to the tunnel I'd be taking the right lane too.

frozenfrozen

link this on google maps I want to see if I'd be wrong

Decent Skin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

link this on google maps I want to see if I'd be wrong

Seems like it....

frozenfrozen

Annoyingly half the roundabout on google streetview is from 2009 and the other half much more recently.

Coming from raheen, to the dock road you would be in the right lane? How do you reckon I would not be in the right lane? It's very clearly at nearly 3 o clock? If anything you would be in the wrong with your first two exits left lane rule, would you go in the right lane from raheen to take the tunnel?

Unless this looks totally different in current day pictures not what's on google maps?

Decent Skin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Annoyingly half the roundabout on google streetview is from 2009 and the other half much more recently.

Coming from raheen, to the dock road you would be in the right lane? How do you reckon I would not be in the right lane? It's very clearly at nearly 3 o clock? If anything you would be in the wrong with your first two exits left lane rule, would you go in the right lane from raheen to take the tunnel?

Unless this looks totally different in current day pictures not what's on google maps?

Depends on whether you meant "right" or "correct"!!!!

It was Raheen to the tunnel that I'd mentioned; and yes, that'd be where right and correct would be synonymous - third exit, despite being at "12 o'clock" (ish).

Not sure how you reckon I'd be in the wrong with the "first two exits" rule, as I'd use the right lane to go onto the Dock Road (inbound) and the left to go towards Munget ?

frozenfrozen

Decent Skin wrote: »

Depends on whether you meant "right" or "correct"!!!!

It was Raheen to the tunnel that I'd mentioned; and yes, that'd be where right and correct would be synonymous.

right-hand-lane (:D) from raheen to the tunnel?! I'd go in the left lane. We would crash since it's 2 lanes in 1 lane out, and you'd be crossing into my path to exit :cool:

I've gone that way 2 or 3 times and have definitely gone in the left lane for the third exit (raheen to the tunnel), and never had anyone else have an issue with it at the time. Since it is 12 o clock, at least it is 12 o clock on the signage up the raheen road

Being in the left lane stops people from the foynes way from thinking you're carrying on around to the dock road. And so then they could stay left and take the tunnel, or continue on and exit 2 in 2 out off to the dock road..! Just how god intended roundabouts to function

and this little quick edit.. and that means people from the foynes way would be also going further than 2 exits, in the left lane to go to the dock road, you can't be saying that they would have to go in the RHL to go to the dock road!?

Mc Love

frozenfrozen wrote: »

right-hand-lane (:D) from raheen to the tunnel?! I'd go in the left lane. We would crash since it's 2 lanes in 1 lane out, and you'd be crossing into my path to exit :cool:

I've gone that way 2 or 3 times and have definitely gone in the left lane for the third exit (raheen to the tunnel), and never had anyone else have an issue with it at the time. Since it is 12 o clock, at least it is 12 o clock on the signage up the raheen road

Being in the left lane stops people from the foynes way from thinking you're carrying on around to the dock road. And so then they could stay left and take the tunnel, or continue on and exit 2 in 2 out off to the dock road..! Just how god intended roundabouts to function

and this little quick edit.. and that means people from the foynes way would be also going further than 2 exits, in the left lane to go to the dock road, you can't be saying that they would have to go in the RHL to go to the dock road!?

On your first point in bold above, it doesnt matter what lane you are in on the roundabout, the people coming from Foynes shouldnt be joining the roundabout at the same time as you are on it as they have to give ROW "just how roundabouts are intended to function"

On the quick edit, yeah I think I would use the right lane as I do by the roundabout at Old Crescent RFC

Special Circumstances

I don't believe anyone in their right mind* would indicate right to go from raheen to tunnel so that's a left hand lane for me!

*not meant to be a swipe at other posters here but some people indicate right for anything except first exit even if they are in the left/only lane on the compass point roundabout. These people are to be pitied as much as feared.

frozenfrozen

Mc Love wrote: »

On your first point in bold above, it doesnt matter what lane you are in on the roundabout, the people coming from Foynes shouldnt be joining the roundabout at the same time as you are on it as they have to give ROW "just how roundabouts are intended to function"

On the quick edit, yeah I think I would use the right lane as I do by the roundabout at Old Crescent RFC

That's a poor way to look at it IMO. Right of way, (and all rules of the road) is(/are) there to keep the flow of traffic.

the intended function of roundabouts is to keep the flow of traffic. Never being able to enter a roundabout while there is other traffic on the roundabout defeats the purpose of the roundabout.

At that rate there is no benefit over a junction of equal importance, giving way to your right.

using the right lane to go from foynes to the dock road.. That means everyone coming from the dock road has to yield to you, even though you are taking the exit before them, which just further slows down everyone's progress.

Mc Love

frozenfrozen wrote: »

That's a poor way to look at it IMO. Right of way, (and all rules of the road) is(/are) there to keep the flow of traffic.

the intended function of roundabouts is to keep the flow of traffic. Never being able to enter a roundabout while there is other traffic on the roundabout defeats the purpose of the roundabout.

Yeah but in relation to your post, if I was at the point of the Foynes junction, why would you be entering the roundabout if I was on it, you'd be yielding to me (i.e. traffic to your right) and then once I'm past the very close cement factory exit I'd be indicating left to take the tunnel exit.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

using the right lane to go from foynes to the dock road.. That means everyone coming from the dock road has to yield to you, even though you are taking the exit before them, which just further slows down everyone's progress.

No the traffic coming from the dock road wouldnt, because as I pass the exit for the tunnel I'd be indicating left and moving into the lane to take the dock road exit. As the traffic from the dock road would see the movement I made, wouldnt have to yield to me.

Mc Love

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I don't believe anyone in their right mind* would indicate right to go from raheen to tunnel so that's a left hand lane for me!

*not meant to be a swipe at other posters here but some people indicate right for anything except first exit even if they are in the left/only lane on the compass point roundabout. These people are to be pitied as much as feared.

I think and by the way I was led to believe that anything past the 2nd exit you would indicate right and take the 3rd exit by indicating left and moving towards the 3rd (tunnel) exit after passing the exit to the cement factory.

EDIT: the route you will take is dependent on their being arrows at the exit you are taking.

frozenfrozen

Mc Love wrote: »

Yeah but in relation to your post, if I was at the point of the Foynes junction, why would you be entering the roundabout if I was on it, you'd be yielding to me (i.e. traffic to your right) and then once I'm past the very close cement factory exit I'd be indicating left to take the tunnel exit.



No the traffic coming from the dock road wouldnt, because as I pass the exit for the tunnel I'd be indicating left and moving into the lane to take the dock road exit. As the traffic from the dock road would see the movement I made, wouldnt have to yield to me.

That's different. Totally different. That is what I would do if the left lane was full of people who were taking earlier exits than me. Moving over left after passing them.
Completely different to just taking the right lane, for any exit after the first two. That's not what's being discussed here with Decent Skin who is suggesting the left lane is for the first two exits always, only, (outside of being signposted etc etc.)

Mc Love

frozenfrozen wrote: »

That's different. Totally different. That is what I would do if the left lane was full of people who were taking earlier exits than me. Moving over left after passing them.
Completely different to just taking the right lane, for any exit after the first two.

Sorry you have me confused now.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

That's not what's being discussed here with Decent Skin who is suggesting the left lane is for the first two exits always, only, (outside of being signposted etc etc.)

Yeah I would have to agree with that.

Mc Love

On a slightly funnier note: If this was moved to the roads forum, it might get a better response or maybe none at all

Special Circumstances

Mc Love wrote: »

On a slightly funnier note: If this was moved to the roads forum, it might get a better response or maybe none at all

Its all academic really, the real world is a free for all for anything beyond the compass point roundabout or quiet/mini suburban ones.

Mc Love

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Its all academic really, the real world is a free for all for anything beyond the compass point roundabout or quiet/mini suburban ones.

Yeah - I am surprised nobody has brought up the fact that most people dont even use their indicators on roundabouts and want you to channel your inner Professor Xavier to guess what direction they are going.

frozenfrozen

Mc Love wrote: »

Sorry you have me confused now.



Yeah I would have to agree with that.

Ok so the moving left bit is good/advanced driving but not 'normal'. You would approach in the RHL to go straight if the left lane was full of people waiting to turn left but it was congested etc.. After you pass that exit you move left, to take the next exit. Which is what you said, and I agree this is what I would do, and is good driving.

This is what I was arguing for as being the circumstance to go straight from the RHL at the start of this thread.

It's totally different to saying, third exit, right lane. Every time. (outside of being signposted etcetcetcetc) Which is what decent skin is saying.

My rule which has so far not been proven wrong, is left lane for anything before 12 o clock. And I outlined the circumstances for when you would use the RHL to go 'straight' (which is where you would move left to exit, after passing the earlier exits.)

If you would agree with decent skin that the left lane is for the first two lanes always bar none (except for being signposted otherwise)? Then you've already contradicted yourself by saying you would move back to the left lane before exiting. There's no benefit to entering a roundabout in the right lane to go to an exit before 12 o clock (unless the left is full etc like above). You have to make a lane change to exit, so you would potentially be crossing somebody else's path, or forcing people to yield further around the roundabout.

Mc Love wrote: »

On a slightly funnier note: If this was moved to the roads forum, it might get a better response or maybe none at all

We'd be thrown out by the scruff of our respective necks


The sad thing is that this is all quite pointless, because as has been said nobody else cares, even if it was just us with our different interpretations of the rules, it would still be fine because we all give way to the right anyway. It really is just academic, we should be playing road traffic simulator or something because other people will continue to just drive through roundabouts without giving a **** about indicating or right of way or anything

Mc Love

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Ok so the moving left bit is good/advanced driving but not 'normal'. You would approach in the RHL to go straight if the left lane was full of people waiting to turn left but it was congested etc.. After you pass that exit you move left, to take the next exit. Which is what you said, and I agree this is what I would do, and is good driving.

This is what I was arguing for as being the circumstance to go straight from the RHL at the start of this thread.

Even if there is nobody in the left lane and there are two exit lanes, you can still take the RHL when entering the roundabout, but you really wouldnt if someone was indicating right and was in the RHL.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

It's totally different to saying, third exit, right lane. Every time. (outside of being signposted etcetcetcetc) Which is what decent skin is saying.

My rule which has so far not been proven wrong, is left lane for anything before 12 o clock. And I outlined the circumstances for when you would use the RHL to go 'straight' (which is where you would move left to exit, after passing the earlier exits.)

If you would agree with decent skin that the left lane is for the first two lanes always bar none (except for being signposted otherwise)? Then you've already contradicted yourself by saying you would move back to the left lane before exiting. There's no benefit to entering a roundabout in the right lane to go to an exit before 12 o clock (unless the left is full etc like above). You have to make a lane change to exit, so you would potentially be crossing somebody else's path, or forcing people to yield further around the roundabout.

All fine if you believe the clock rule to be the right rule. However I couldnt be contradicting myself as everyone needs to change/move to the left lane if in the right lane in order to exit the roundabout, and you would do so if not taking the first two exits.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

The sad thing is that this is all quite pointless, because as has been said nobody else cares, even if it was just us with our different interpretations of the rules, it would still be fine because we all give way to the right anyway. It really is just academic, we should be playing road traffic simulator or something because other people will continue to just drive through roundabouts without giving a **** about indicating or right of way or anything

Agreed on that point. It must be a quite day in the office

Decent Skin

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I don't believe anyone in their right mind* would indicate right to go from raheen to tunnel so that's a left hand lane for me!

*not meant to be a swipe at other posters here but some people indicate right for anything except first exit even if they are in the left/only lane on the compass point roundabout. These people are to be pitied as much as feared.

It might not be meant but it ends up being a swipe because that's EXACTLY what I would do, as per the rules of the road that I was taught.

Kings Inns or bust

Sweet jesus, the abortion debate has nothing on the 'correct use of a roundabout' debate. :pac:

Thanks for the info guys, keep it coming. If perhaps we could refer back to the OP once in awhile I'd be much obliged.

Special Circumstances

Decent Skin wrote: »

It might not be meant but it ends up being a swipe because that's EXACTLY what I would do, as per the rules of the road that I was taught.

You'd indicate right to go to the tunnel, coming from raheen? I think this falls through a crack in the rotr but I've never seen anyone indicate right here and take the tunnel.

Or (and?)

You'd indicate right to go straight through the standard compass point roundabout. (If this one please link to rotr for this).

Special Circumstances

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Sweet jesus, the abortion debate has nothing on the 'correct use of a roundabout' debate. :pac:

Thanks for the info guys, keep it coming. If perhaps we could refer back to the OP once in awhile I'd be much obliged.

Coming around again now, some fella shot out and blocked me ;-)

Mc Love

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Sweet jesus, the abortion debate has nothing on the 'correct use of a roundabout' debate. :pac:

Thanks for the info guys, keep it coming. If perhaps we could refer back to the OP once in awhile I'd be much obliged.

Your post was answered, we're just off on our own tangent

Mc Love

Special Circumstances wrote: »

You'd indicate right to go to the tunnel, coming from raheen? I think this falls through a crack in the rotr but I've never seen anyone indicate right here and take the tunnel.

Have done it plenty of times. Same as I've indicated right to take the tunnel coming from Jetland as it's the third exit

Uriel.

two lane entry to roundabout at 6 o'clock

a car arrives in each lane.

The 12 o'clock exit is a one lane road.

both cars want to take 12 o'clock exit.

Who has ROW at the exit? Left lane car, right lane car, or the car most advanced in terms of road position.

I think left hand lane car..but... maybe I am wrong, considering my experience on some roundabouts

Assuming no arrow markings on the road...

Example attached

frozenfrozen

left lane! Same as this roundabout at the radisson https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.6821172,-8.7118977,3a,90y,294.06h,82.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgaBqRIwdSxLM1GWqC_piZw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Unless the right lane person came from a previous exit, then everyone should work together (ha) to slightly change their speeds to merge, and worst case scenario the person in the right lane should abort and go around again. (abortion thread crossover!)

In practise at that radisson roundabout I see the people who are looking to pull such a move, about 200 metres back as they are overtaking, and I slow down and let them go ahead. It's safer for me at the cost of 5 seconds of progress

Mc Love

Uriel. wrote: »

two lane entry to roundabout at 6 o'clock

a car arrives in each lane.

The 12 o'clock exit is a one lane road.

both cars want to take 12 o'clock exit.

Who has ROW at the exit? Left lane car, right lane car, or the car most advanced in terms of road position.

I think left hand lane car..but... maybe I am wrong, considering my experience on some roundabouts

Assuming no arrow markings on the road...

Example attached

Very familiar with that r/a - use the left lane, rhl car needs to go around again if they want to join. I dont know how there isnt more accidents there though, I've had good few experiences of cars in rhl trying to butt in.

frozenfrozen wrote: »

left lane! Same as this roundabout at the radisson https://www.google.ie/maps/@52.6821172,-8.7118977,3a,90y,294.06h,82.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgaBqRIwdSxLM1GWqC_piZw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Unless the right lane person came from a previous exit, then everyone should work together (ha) to slightly change their speeds to merge, and worst case scenario the person in the right lane should abort and go around again. (abortion thread crossover!)

In practise at that radisson roundabout I see the people who are looking to pull such a move, about 200 metres back as they are overtaking, and I slow down and let them go ahead. It's safer for me at the cost of 5 seconds of progress

Yep same here as above.