Non-TUI members getting S&S increase while others won't?

deiseindublin

Am I correct in saying that some non-TUI members in ETBs etc will get the S&S payment from 1/9/16 while others won't?

I'm in one of the schools where TUI members were asked to fill in consent form so that payroll could share TUI payment details and so non-TUI members will not get the S&S money in our school. That seems fair I suppose, that's the bargaining power of a union.

Then you have other TUI schools that are not designated (therefore don't have to sign consent form) and non-TUI members will automatically get the payment there? Am I misreading outcome? If not, it seems like an absolute arse of a system.

(Our consent form is due this Friday and I have a huge problem signing it, equally I'll be pissed off doing S&S for the good of my health if I don't sign it).

man_no_plan

deiseindublin wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that some non-TUI members in ETBs etc will get the S&S payment from 1/9/16 while others won't?

I'm in one of the schools where TUI members were asked to fill in consent form so that payroll could share TUI payment details and so non-TUI members will not get the S&S money in our school. That seems fair I suppose, that's the bargaining power of a union.

Then you have other TUI schools that are not designated (therefore don't have to sign consent form) and non-TUI members will automatically get the payment there? Am I misreading outcome? If not, it seems like an absolute arse of a system.

(Our consent form is due this Friday and I have a huge problem signing it, equally I'll be pissed off doing S&S for the good of my health if I don't sign it).

That's my reading of it too. They also got paid for the days we were on strike. Makes you wonder. If they all go that way where will the union be in 5 years. (As bad as it is now)

evolving_doors

If you don't sign it and don't get paid, then why do you have to do it?

The_Valeyard

Hmm, no s&s payment today. Odd.

Millem

I didn't even get paid my wages today?? I am in a dual union school. I am Tui and did our Croke park hours/days last week. Every non asti person got a form and was told to hand it in. Even if they were non union. Our union person said the form is basically saying you aren't in asti.

Only the staff that opted out of s and s don't have to do it. If asti don't do it they lose more money! I think it's something like 1000+!!

Moody_mona

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Hmm, no s&s payment today. Odd.

It wasn't due today. It's for work payment on the 1st of September but you won't get paid for that day for another two weeks.

km79

Moody_mona wrote: »

It wasn't due today. It's for work payment on the 1st of September but you won't get paid for that day for another two weeks.

Slightly OT but here goes anyway ..........in January the pension levy threshold was raised resulting in a slight increase in pay. This was applied to all public servants even those outside of LRA
Another due now. Do we all get it again ?

The_Valeyard

Moody_mona wrote: »

It wasn't due today. It's for work payment on the 1st of September but you won't get paid for that day for another two weeks.

Ahh. Cheers for that. I have been misinformed.

joebloggs32

deiseindublin wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that some non-TUI members in ETBs etc will get the S&S payment from 1/9/16 while others won't?

I'm in one of the schools where TUI members were asked to fill in consent form so that payroll could share TUI payment details and so non-TUI members will not get the S&S money in our school. That seems fair I suppose, that's the bargaining power of a union.

Then you have other TUI schools that are not designated (therefore don't have to sign consent form) and non-TUI members will automatically get the payment there? Am I misreading outcome? If not, it seems like an absolute arse of a system.

(Our consent form is due this Friday and I have a huge problem signing it, equally I'll be pissed off doing S&S for the good of my health if I don't sign it).

Non union in secondary schools don't get it.
Non union in etb schools do get it.
In C&C schools only TUI staff who sign the form get it

r93kaey5p2izun

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Non union in secondary schools don't get it.
Non union in etb schools do get it.
In C&C schools only TUI staff who sign the form get it

Non-union in ETB Designated Community Colleges won't get it, only TUI staff who sign the form will.

So yes, it's true that some non-union in the ETB will get it and some won't - depending on school type within the ETB.

implausible

Millem wrote: »

Only the staff that opted out of s and s don't have to do it.

Do you mean that those who opted out don't have to fill in the form? This is wrong - even if you don't do s/s, you are still entitled to the payment, as you have already taken a cut in wages to opt out.

As far as I understand, this money is an addition to the common basic scale and is more a compensation payment for the loss of s/s money in the past than payment for what teachers are doing now.

The circular is here if people are interested.

Millem

implausible wrote: »

Do you mean that those who opted out don't have to fill in the form? This is wrong - even if you don't do s/s, you are still entitled to the payment, as you have already taken a cut in wages to opt out.

As far as I understand, this money is an addition to the common basic scale and is more a compensation payment for the loss of s/s money in the past than payment for what teachers are doing now.

The circular is here if people are interested.

No I was referring to s and s. We were told everyone has to do it unless you opted out. I think I was on maternity leave at the time people opted out. I probably would have too.

The only people don't fill in the form are Asti people in my school. We have teachers who left Asti and are non Union and they were told to fill out form. We also have new teachers who haven't joined any Union yet and they were told to fill out form.

joebloggs32

Millem wrote: »

No I was referring to s and s. We were told everyone has to do it unless you opted out. I think I was on maternity leave at the time people opted out. I probably would have too.

The only people don't fill in the form are Asti people in my school. We have teachers who left Asti and are non Union and they were told to fill out form. We also have new teachers who haven't joined any Union yet and they were told to fill out form.

The form asks you clearly if you are in the TUI, so it is pointless if a non union person fills it in in a dual union school.

evolving_doors

joebloggs32 wrote: »

The form asks you clearly if you are in the TUI, so it is pointless if a non union person fills it in in a dual union school.

If they (non-union in dual union) don't fill it out then does that mean they don't have to do S&S?

implausible

Gebgbegb wrote: »

If they (non-union in dual union) don't fill it out then does that mean they don't have to do S&S?

S/S is part of everyone's terms and conditions now, unless you paid to opt out of it. The payment is more compensation for the loss of the money in 2013 than payment for doing it this year, but it's only available to those who signed up to the new agreement.

evolving_doors

implausible wrote: »

S/S is part of everyone's terms and conditions now, unless you paid to opt out of it. The payment is more compensation for the loss of the money in 2013 than payment for doing it this year, but it's only available to those who signed up to the new agreement.

Ok so is it once off payment to TUI members (in 2 installments) to keep doing it forever?

joebloggs32

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ok so is it once off payment to TUI members (in 2 installments) to keep doing it forever?

No it is not a once off. It will become a normal part of the salary. There will now be separate salary scales depending on which union/school you are in.

man_no_plan

Millem wrote: »

No I was referring to s and s. We were told everyone has to do it unless you opted out. I think I was on maternity leave at the time people opted out. I probably would have to.

You could only opt out if you weren't part of the original scheme. Those who opted out paid in lieu of the s&s while others lost the payment but continued to do the work.

The money is added to each point of the scale so the payment continues indefinitely.

Notorious

I would be concerned about the legality of issuing a letter to staff as mentioned above. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was of the impression that an employer has no right knowing which union you are apart of. Not to mention the legality behind treating staff differently based on their union.

As a TUI member, I would like to stand in solidarity with the ASTI. I did not agree to accept the new agreement, and I was not happy with the union pushing a vote to accept. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I couldn't help but feel that the union chiefs were pushing a hidden agenda in asking us to accept the new agreement.

TheDriver

Notorious wrote: »

I would be concerned about the legality of issuing a letter to staff as mentioned above. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was of the impression that an employer has no right knowing which union you are apart of. Not to mention the legality behind treating staff differently based on their union.

As a TUI member, I would like to stand in solidarity with the ASTI. I did not agree to accept the new agreement, and I was not happy with the union pushing a vote to accept. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I couldn't help but feel that the union chiefs were pushing a hidden agenda in asking us to accept the new agreement.

But as a TUI member, you are obliged to stand with the TUI and their directives etc. We all see decisions we don't like but you can't decide on your own course of action unlesss you decide to leave the union. Yes, the chiefs may be on another agenda but the only proper way of changing it is to get involved yourself and ultimately become chief.

Regarding the letter, its asking you as a TUI member to declare that fact so you can benefit from the pay increases. The TUI seems ok with this and its only a mechanism to give people what they deserve. They already have this information in payroll but can't use it.
Unfortunately the only thing you will benefit from by not signing the form is denying your membership of the union.

implausible

Notorious wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was of the impression that an employer has no right knowing which union you are apart of.

That's why TUI members have to sign a form, you volunteer the information.

Notorious

TheDriver wrote: »

Regarding the letter, its asking you as a TUI member to declare that fact so you can benefit from the pay increases.

Aye, I understand how it all works. I'm one of the few in our district who attends Union meetings, and again in an even smaller minority who spoke out against agreeing with the union.

Still, schools/etb/hr depts probably shouldn't be privy to this information.

implausible

Notorious wrote: »

Aye, I understand how it all works. I'm one of the few in our district who attends Union meetings, and again in an even smaller minority who spoke out against agreeing with the union.

Still, schools/etb/hr depts probably shouldn't be privy to this information.

But if you're volunteering the information? This is a case where it is practical for them to know if you are a union member and a reason for a teacher to not keep it private.

r93kaey5p2izun

My issue is that filling in the form is facilitating them in identifying who (ASTI and non-union) to apply FEMPI to. Not simply that it is telling them I am TUI. I am very angry that TUI have placed me in this position. I don't agree with the TUI acceptance of LRA but understand I must go along with the democratic decision of the union. I don't accept that this should be carried out in such a manner as to aid and abet implementation of FEMPI on my colleagues.

But I need union protection so must fulfil LRA and it would be unfair to expect us to do that while taking the penalties too. So it's a mess of a situation that TUI have put us in this position.

judeboy101

Collins Melodic Stone wrote: »

My issue is that filling in the form is facilitating them in identifying who (ASTI and non-union) to apply FEMPI to. Not simply that it is telling them I am TUI. I am very angry that TUI have placed me in this position. I don't agree with the TUI acceptance of LRA but understand I must go along with the democratic decision of the union. I don't accept that this should be carried out in such a manner as to aid and abet implementation of FEMPI on my colleagues.

But I need union protection so must fulfil LRA and it would be unfair to expect us to do that while taking the penalties too. So it's a mess of a situation that TUI have put us in this position.

So if you do s&s but don't sign this form you wont get paid? I wonder if you don't do s&s but sign the form will you get paid? It seems the form gets you the money, not the work itself.

r93kaey5p2izun

judeboy101 wrote: »

So if you do s&s but don't sign this form you wont get paid? I wonder if you don't do s&s but sign the form will you get paid? It seems the form gets you the money, not the work itself.

Yes. Everyone signed up to LRA gets the increase, including those not doing S&S. Those who opted out are already paying €1700 not to do it.

If not signing the form merely meant doing S&S without the paltry increase I and fellow colleagues wouldn't hesitate to just tear it up though. It's the frozen increments, 5 year CID and possibility of redundancy while still fulfilling the stupid hours that is of concern.

evolving_doors

TheDriver wrote: »

But as a TUI member, you are obliged to stand with the TUI and their directives etc. We all see decisions we don't like but you can't decide on your own course of action unlesss you decide to leave the union. Yes, the chiefs may be on another agenda but the only proper way of changing it is to get involved yourself and ultimately become chief.

Regarding the letter, its asking you as a TUI member to declare that fact so you can benefit from the pay increases. The TUI seems ok with this and its only a mechanism to give people what they deserve. They already have this information in payroll but can't use it.
Unfortunately the only thing you will benefit from by not signing the form is denying your membership of the union.

I suppose the heads are fine with it , although there is another group (like ASTI FIghtback) that aren't too pleased with being used to single out ASTI members. There was a meeting held in the teacher's club so I don't know how it went. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1717839115137763/

Why not just pay those doing it! No matter what school or what union.
This was the original deal after all no?
If the government want teachers to do S&S and the schools to stay open then just get on with it rather than tying it into the new Junior cert.

What has the Junior Cert got to do with S&S anyway. What is the educational rationale behind connecting the two?

man_no_plan

Gebgbegb wrote: »

What has the Junior Cert got to do with S&S anyway. What is the educational rationale behind connecting the two?

Who said it had anything to do with junior cert? Its to do with the LRA

r93kaey5p2izun

Also just to address the assertion that "The TUI seem ok with this" - depends on who you consider the TUI to be! Sure, the executive committee accept it (though several members are vocal in their opposition) but what about the members? This implementation process was not agreed in any vote.

Also most TUI members teach in TUI only schools or centres and remain unaffected by this form. Most aren't even aware of the position their fellow members in mixed union schools have been put in and possibly don't understand the reality of what a divisive and toxic situation this leaves them in. I'm not so sure we could say the TUI are ok with this if the majority of members were really made aware of what's happening.

GSOIRL

joebloggs32 wrote: »

Non union in secondary schools don't get it.
Non union in etb schools do get it.
In C&C schools only TUI staff who sign the form get it

ASTI in ETB schools also get it

GSOIRL

joebloggs32 wrote: »

No it is not a once off. It will become a normal part of the salary. There will now be separate salary scales depending on which union/school you are in.

Yep. 6 salary scales now