Steelworks Foley Street

eoininho

Hi all

I am looking for an up to date opinion on the steelworks on foley street preferably from people who live there currently rather than historical opinions. There are some older threads that do not paint it in a particularly good light. I visited it last week and thought it was fine overall given its right next to the Luas/Connolly stn and busy streets. The area looks somewhat gentrified to me however I am not living there so I can't form an affirmed opinion.

I am potentially buying a flat for investment purposes (I don't ever intend living there myself), the rents seems to be sky high here which I find odd given the negative comments. Why do good people pay so much to live there?

I live in London now having left Dublin 6 years ago and many areas which were absolute no go areas are now prime locations here.

If I could get an up to date consensus it would be really appreciated

Thank you in advance

Kings Inns or bust

IMHO it's an area that will 'slip back' once supply picks up, unless there are significant policy changes in relation to where services for people with significant problems are located. I'd personally never rent out somewhere I wasn't willing to live myself so I'd suggest using that as your guide.

Pawwed Rig

There are a large group of addicts that hang around Foley Street all day. Drugs are dealt openly and the odd Garda who does saunter up is in high vis so the dealers just walk away till they are gone. Aggressive begging goes on too although I have never been assaulted there. On a Monday morning the place looks like a land fill.

Foley Street and parallel streets are some of the worst places I have seen tbh.

Kings Inns or bust

Some quick research there shows 2 beds on sale from 250,000 to 300,000 with a rent of €1750 c.6.5% yield in a fairly uncertain area. It's being propped up IMHO by young professionals that can't afford the docklands proper. Isn't that being significantly developed with many new units planned?

eoininho

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Some quick research there shows 2 beds on sale from 250,000 to 300,000 with a rent of 1750 c.6.5% yield in a fairly uncertain area. It's being propped up IMHO by young professionals that can't afford the docklands proper. Isn't that being significantly developed with many new units planned?

this is my thoughts the yields are incredible considering the reputation the area seems to have. In my experience when young professionals begin to live in an area it is the beginning of a gentrification process and this tends to follow on rather than regressing. If in fact it deemed too dangerous young professionals will simply live elsewhere from the outset.

What if anything are the authorities doing in the inner city to resolve these issues ? surely they can't just leave it be there has to be action taken ?

Michael D Not Higgins

eoininho wrote: »

why is it the authorities can't get a hold on it to curb these issues ?

It's a societal issue rather than an enforcement one. You're not going to prevent drug dealing in inner city Dublin by clamping down on the dealers, even if the Gardaí had the budget or manpower to do so.

Your potential investment here is a risk. You're going to have to take these areas at face value not the potential gentrified value (although the area around Connolly has been dodgy for as long as I can remember).

Keep in mind, 6.5% yield isn't that great today. Average yields for a 2 bed in D1 are 7.5% in Q1 this year and a crazy 11% in Q2, according to Daft.

eoininho

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

eoininho wrote: »

why is it the authorities can't get a hold on it to curb these issues ?

It's a societal issue rather than an enforcement one. You're not going to prevent drug dealing in inner city Dublin by clamping down on the dealers, even if the Garda had the budget or manpower to do so.

Your potential investment here is a risk. You're going to have to take these areas at face value not the potential gentrified value (although the area around Connolly has been dodgy for as long as I can remember).

Keep in mind, 6.5% yield isn't that great today. Average yields for a 2 bed in D1 are 7.5% in Q1 this year and a crazy 11% in Q2, according to Daft.

On the price I have negotiated and the rent expected I would expect a yield close to 8.5% in this instance. I am eager to hear from anyone currently living in the area. I would agree Connolly hasn't been the best historically however it has improved, and with the IFSC a stones throw away it seems bizarre to think that with skyrocketing rents and influx of young professionals that the area will forever be doomed.

Rackstar

Have to go to an office on Foley St occasionally.

I've never felt safe there, and I'm only there during the day.

The small park appears to be an addicts play ground. They sit in there drinking and doing drugs.

Wouldn't rent / buy / or become a landlord there.

Kings Inns or bust

eoininho wrote: »

On the price I have negotiated and the rent expected I would expect a yield close to 8.5% in this instance. I am eager to hear from anyone currently living in the area. I would agree Connolly hasn't been the best historically however it has improved, and with the IFSC a stones throw away it seems bizarre to think that with skyrocketing rents and influx of young professionals that the area will forever be doomed.

Dublin is like that though, and sometimes it's just perception. Where I am go 300m East and houses are over €1m, go 300m West and you'll start to get into areas with significant issues in the past, the reputation will likely never leave the area despite it being much improved, especially as you move East, a few streets. As for Skyrocketing rents, that's true of every area in Dublin due to lack of supply. As supply becomes available, the less desirable areas will lose out first, especially if there is going to be a large supply of brand new, very desirable properties just up the road.

Usually in these threads someone will defend the area tooth and nail, be it areas bordering Darndale or Finglas or Crumlin or Inchicore. The reason being is there is usually an established community in the area, albeit with it's rough round the edges characters. The steel works on the other hand is a load of renters, who can't afford down the road, chucked into an area that is traditionally Dublin's worst by a load of investors who don't understand the area.

It's hardly a war zone and some profit can be made around there given the right investment, just be aware of the issues it's very much like Ballybough and North Strand.

Cyrus

i literally wouldnt live there if you paid me vast sums of money

do you really think the problems of inner city dublin will go away? if you do then its worth investing, if you dont run a mile

eoininho

Cyrus wrote: »

i literally wouldnt live there if you paid me vast sums of money

do you really think the problems of inner city dublin will go away? if you do then its worth investing, if you dont run a mile

wow, it amazes me that these flats are achieving up to 2k pm, it seems very strange to me... in London areas as bad as you depict will struggle to get half of what is paid in a more desirable area. Shoreditch / East London used to be no go areas and have since been transformed.

In my opinion land this close to the centre and one which has so much going for it as regards transport and ease of access to the whole of the city, should be the right of the working professionals. it puzzles me why scum is being accepted there, action is required as good people need to live in the city.

Rackstar

eoininho wrote: »

wow, it amazes me that these flats are achieving up to 2k pm, it seems very strange to me... in London areas as bad as you depict will struggle to get half of what is paid in a more desirable area. Shoreditch / East London used to be no go areas and have since been transformed.

In my opinion land this close to the centre and one which has so much going for it as regards transport and ease of access to the whole of the city, should be the right of the working professionals. it puzzles me why scum is being accepted there, action is required as good people need to live in the city.

The "scum" as you put it has to go somewhere. They were there long before you decided you wanted to buy in their neck of the woods.

Kings Inns or bust

eoininho wrote: »

wow, it amazes me that these flats are achieving up to 2k pm, it seems very strange to me... in London areas as bad as you depict will struggle to get half of what is paid in a more desirable area. Shoreditch / East London used to be no go areas and have since been transformed.

In my opinion land this close to the centre and one which has so much going for it as regards transport and ease of access to the whole of the city, should be the right of the working professionals. it puzzles me why scum is being accepted there, action is required as good people need to live in the city.

So much wow in one post.

The right of landlords to cash in on working professionals you mean? Bloody locals keeping the price down, shoot them all I say, what!

eoininho

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

eoininho wrote: »

wow, it amazes me that these flats are achieving up to 2k pm, it seems very strange to me... in London areas as bad as you depict will struggle to get half of what is paid in a more desirable area. Shoreditch / East London used to be no go areas and have since been transformed.

In my opinion land this close to the centre and one which has so much going for it as regards transport and ease of access to the whole of the city, should be the right of the working professionals. it puzzles me why scum is being accepted there, action is required as good people need to live in the city.

So much wow in one post.

The right of landlords to cash in on working professionals you mean? Bloody locals keeping the price down, shoot them all I say, what!

not necessarily landlords, I'm more referring to people who work hard and are paying big money to live somewhere, or young people trying to get on the property ladder. it's not fair for them to live in fear. I would not be comfortable expecting people to pay that much to live in what appears to be an unsafe environment.

as regards the people who are causing the issues. it's fair to say that they belong in prison not in the centre of the city terrorising good honest people.

LuckyLloyd

eoininho wrote: »

In my opinion land this close to the centre and one which has so much going for it as regards transport and ease of access to the whole of the city, should be the right of the working professionals. it puzzles me why scum is being accepted there, action is required as good people need to live in the city.

eoininho wrote: »

not necessarily landlords, I'm more referring to people who work hard and are paying big money to live somewhere, or young people trying to get on the property ladder. it's not fair for them to live in fear. I would not be comfortable expecting people to pay that much to live in what appears to be an unsafe environment.

as regards the people who are causing the issues. it's fair to say that they belong in prison not in the centre of the city terrorising good honest people.

I figured you were heading in this direction from your first couple of posts.

The fundamental character of Foley St. and indeed the area around Connolly Station did not drastically change during the Celtic Tiger and subsequent housing bubble. As such, I see no reason to assume it will change during this current economic upturn.

The types of things you would need to see happen for that area to become gentrified in the way you seem to envisage would be fundamental shifts in the location of methadone clinics and other basic health services and a decision to significantly uproot and displace inner city corporation housing.

References to London are pointless. London has evolved under completely different social policy models and with a drastically different dynamic in terms of how its economy operates and supply / demand / availability of housing in its desirable central areas.

As to why people are paying as much as 2k for 2 bed apartments on Foley St? I have no idea. I have never personally understood why walking distance to work can trump all considerations of how nice an apartment is or how pleasant its environs. That type of money 15 minutes on a public transport option away from the Connolly St area could offer a fantastic apartment. As such, I think those suggesting that the value / demand within the area could tail off in a few years might be right.

Kings Inns or bust

eoininho wrote: »

not necessarily landlords, I'm more referring to people who work hard and are paying big money to live somewhere, or young people trying to get on the property ladder. it's not fair for them to live in fear. I would not be comfortable expecting people to pay that much to live in what appears to be an unsafe environment.

as regards the people who are causing the issues. it's fair to say that they belong in prison not in the centre of the city terrorising good honest people.

I was more having a dig, I'll refrain, sorry you rather got goaded into a corner. To clarify a couple of points.

Like most 'bad' areas in Dublin it's not really that bad. Big hairy arsed blokes might make the decision that living there - the apartments are quite nice - is preferable even if they do have to tell the odd junkie to feck off. 5'4' young lady 8 stone soaking wet is probably not going to want to live there. The point that I and others are making is that as more supply become available your client is going to be more and more of the hairy arsed variety and less and less the quiet, non-smoking, professional females.

Massive swayes of Dublin have seen huge improvement but that's a very localised area that although much improved hasn't quite shaken off its past. Largely as it's in the centre of a number of areas seeing development or new types of people moving in. The vast majority of locals are law abiding and hard working, it's just either very transient or people have lived there for generations and have a particular social status. IIRC my mother-in-law did social work around Mount Joy 40 years ago, it's still a poorer area. As for London, it's gone the other way. Normal people can't hope to live in central London.

Anyway to be fair to you - you came here looking for a very specific and wisely sought piece of information, I hope you get some actual feedback from people who have lived there. FWIW a couple of lads from work lived there and I never remember them being murdered, burgled or mugged. In Dublin we love to chatter about areas, most of it is complete <snip>. The problem you have as an investor is even the image of the place may affect your investment.

If you're getting a good deal on the apartment (I assume it's a 2 bed so anything around the 200K mark is good there) and you're happy with a rental figure of around 1750 for a 2 bed then go for it. Just have an exit strategy and bear in mind if you are getting a good deal, but need to come out in the short term the cap gains is going to apply on any increase in value.

Just don't try and make the facts fit a decision you've already made.

eoininho

l appreciate your comments here, it is very helpful information. and i do agree with your points that we enjoy complaining about areas based on a small sample of information.

I will weigh this up, I am keen to hear from a current resident as you mentioned also.


Your points on London are true. former slums like Shoreditch, Brixton and Dalston (Dalston is about as rough as Connolly still in my opinion) are now absolute prime locations to live, work and socialise.

In hindsight it all seemed so obvious that within walking distance of the city where the high paying jobs were the properties had great value... currently not the case in Dublin, I guess in 20 years we'll know if a trick was missed or a disaster avoided !

Kings Inns or bust

The issue with Dublin is we tried moving people out of the city - have a google of Ballymun and the social issues there. I can't imagine we'll see much change in 20 years to established areas in Dublin. My concern with your investment, and sorry about my broken record here, is that the Docklands may render the Steelworks a potential slum. I'm probably overstating it.

At the risk of getting a well deserved slap from the mod here we have a small number of politicians with some outward vision on how to deal with the social problems of drugs and criminal behaviour, there number is small and their choices unpopular with all but the most bleedin' heart liberal of all of us.

Anyways If I see the lads and they know what boards is I'll ask them to post their thoughts. Best of luck with it OP.

eoininho

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

The issue with Dublin is we tried moving people out of the city - have a google of Ballymun and the social issues there. I can't imagine we'll see much change in 20 years to established areas in Dublin. My concern with your investment, and sorry about my broken record here, is that the Docklands may render the Steelworks a potential slum. I'm probably overstating it.

At the risk of getting a well deserved slap from the mod here we have a small number of politicians with some outward vision on how to deal with the social problems of drugs and criminal behaviour, there number is small and their choices unpopular with all but the most bleedin' heart liberal of all of us.

Anyways If I see the lads and they know what boards is I'll ask them to post their thoughts. Best of luck with it OP.

cheers man appreciate the advice

p17s82

Hi, just looking for an information about Steelworks. Is it still that bad as 2 years ago when this thread was started?

myshirt

p17s82 wrote: »

Hi, just looking for an information about Steelworks. Is it still that bad as 2 years ago when this thread was started?

Yes. It's even worse.

p17s82

myshirt wrote: »

Yes. It's even worse.

Thanks. Is it about the Steelworks itself, or only the surrounding areas?

Pawwed Rig

There is a bit more of a Garda presence recently (may be due to the gang violence Foley Street being part of the Hutch heartland) but still alot of undesireables hanging about. They put up barriers in the small park which seems to keep out the cycling drug dealers. Looks like they operate from the far side of the park now.

p17s82

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There is a bit more of a Garda presence recently (may be due to the gang violence Foley Street being part of the Hutch heartland) but still alot of undesireables hanging about. They put up barriers in the small park which seems to keep out the cycling drug dealers. Looks like they operate from the far side of the park now.

Thanks. Had a walk around the area again yesterday, definitely not my place:mad:

Interested Observer

I worked very close by a year or two back. I wouldn't live there in a million years.

Edgware

Walk away quickly.

Samuel T. Cogley

What are you looking for OP, maybe some pointers could be given. Are you renting/buying, apartment? 1 bed, 2 bed?

Eric Cartman

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There is a bit more of a Garda presence recently (may be due to the gang violence Foley Street being part of the Hutch heartland) but still alot of undesireables hanging about. They put up barriers in the small park which seems to keep out the cycling drug dealers. Looks like they operate from the far side of the park now.

in autumn and winter they hide drugs under piles of leaves by the trees, sell through the railings and send children to run over and get the drugs.

They built a lovely stage / gazebo in the park, it had to be removed after a month as it became a refuge for junkies to pass out in.

The man who sells stolen meat and drink out of a bag outside that park is still there 2-3 days a week

the laneway opposite the park has lads openly shouting about selling phi (methadone) , benzo's and heroin like those women on Henry street selling grapes.

There just isn't enough gardai to cover the area.

I used to park my car in the steelworks 'secure' carpark , (by the way theres no carpark security 7am-7pm Sunday or a few hours every other day, plus theres only 2 working cameras at the entrance) broken into twice and the guy who operates the carpark just moved my space, 'Ger Hutch' is spray painted on the wall where I used to park it, just to let me know who did it, well between that and the kids on the park wall asking me if I wanted to buy a nice laptop the day after it happened.



0 out of 10, awful place, awful area , would not live there.

Berserker

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There is a bit more of a Garda presence recently (may be due to the gang violence Foley Street being part of the Hutch heartland) but still alot of undesireables hanging about. They put up barriers in the small park which seems to keep out the cycling drug dealers. Looks like they operate from the far side of the park now.

My brother's gf moved out of 'The Steelworks' in August, after living there for 18 months. There has been a significant increase in the Garda presence in the area over the last 12 months. Take your pick out of the list of criminal and anti-social activities and you'll see it there. She didn't feel unsafe in the area though and never felt threatened. The locals were more interested in selling you drugs, stolen food (meat seemed to be a big one) and clothes. It's a deprived area by Irish standards but it's not a no-go area. That being said, if I was looking to rent somewhere for the rents those apartments are getting, I'd opt for somewhere along the DART or commuter line within 15 mins of Connolly.