Wayne f*cking Rooney

Flint Fredstone

United thread is getting bogged down with this discussion for quite a while now.
Is he past it or does he still have a lot to offer?
Personally, I think he's only there on reputation or not to upset the harmony in the dressing room. There's a better option in every position he is known to have played.

I do think he would be a good option from the bench but with wages and the fallout from it, I think it would be best to move him on.
What say you?

wadacrack

He should now play the" Giggs role", starts some important games and still an option of the bench or starting occasionally but their are better options in his position. Mhkitaryan one of the best in europe as a number 10

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

Without doubt he's on the Wayne, but still contributing where it matters - on the scoreboard. As long as that continues and United continue winning, I reckon he should keep his place.

LuckyLloyd

Still 30. His decline has perplexed me tbh

kfallon

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Still 30. His decline has perplexed me tbh

On the go a long time tho, reminds me a bit of the likes of Owen, Fowler, Torres et al, all burst onto the scene as a youngster but by late 20's you could see the decline.

HalloweenJack

I don't think he's good enough for the first team with the strength they have at the moment. Zlatan is better, Martial contributed a lot more last year (though, he's had a slow start this year), Rashford should be getting more time. In midfield, they have far better suited players.

I've never been a fan of Rooney because of his attitude. I can't understand how he's captain of Man U and England. I've never seen him as an inspiring type. Obviosuly, he's a winner, he's passionate and he wants to win but I don't think he channels it in the best way, he just gets angry and loses his cool. How many times has he tried to force a move away? How many times has his petulance got the best of him? Didn't he get sent off for an idiotic lunge a few matches after he was named captain?

I know he's a talented player and he's obviously had a big impact on Man U and England but I don't think he does enough to warrant be in the current first XI for Man U. England would also be better off without him

A bigger problem with Rooney, which in fairness is something out of his control, is the media's adoration of him. The treatment of him after the Carvalho stamping was truly pathetic, it all focused on Ronaldo "getting him sent off" and not the fact he was a scumbag. If he's dropped by England or if he leaves Man U, there'll be witchhunts all round. Hodgson didn't have the balls to drop him when there were two in-form strikers that would've done better. I think this ended up costing England. He'll have to go of his own accord, as he apparently will in 2018.

wandatowell

A good option from the bench

Rooney has been a big player for about 17 years old. That's 13 years+ of Premier League football. Its gonna take its toll.

I'd imagine he'll play fewer games to help keep him fresh.

Jose is smart enough to manage him best.

duffman13

It needs it's own thread at this stage, the United thread has become unreadable at this stage with the constant debate which is just going in circles.

In my opinion it's a non issue until such time Jose drops him which I think will happen at some point soon. Still a great player to have around but no longer the first name on the team sheet IMO

GLaDOS

Stopped giving a crap once he was earning 300k a week

finno

Who gives a fook, bar United Fans

That_Guy

This is the most boring discussion in football every single season.

He's obviously not going to consistently hit the form he once had. He's probably best suited to a role coming off the bench for the last 15 mins of a game.

callaway92

That_Guy wrote: »

This is the most boring discussion in football every single season.

He's obviously not going to consistently hit the form he once had. He's probably best suited to a role coming off the bench for the last 15 mins of a game.

Probably more suited for playing 60-70 mins and then going off I think. He isn't really an 'impact' player at the mo.

jayo26

He's not worth keeping around

callaway92 wrote: »

Probably more suited for playing 60-70 mins and then going off I think. He isn't really an 'impact' player at the mo.

But then he wouldn't of been on the pitch to setup the winner against hull

MD1990

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Still 30. His decline has perplexed me tbh

Games & minutes played is more important than age. Vardy is nearly the same age as Rooney & previously Drogba entered the pro game late & his peak was 30-32.
Rooney has constantly played 1st team football since 16 along with poor eating habits means he has been past his best since 2013. Similar thing happened with Owen & Fowler too both played too much in there youth. Sterling is another player who will most likely have an early peak too.

callaway92

jayo26 wrote: »

But then he wouldn't of been on the pitch to setup the winner against hull

Right . .

Skylinehead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Still 30. His decline has perplexed me tbh

I'm not sure, but it could be that he was always a fairly instinctive player who combined somewhat good technique and very good physicality. His body type, if that's a thing, means he might be susceptible to lose a lot of pace fairly young, if he didn't keep in shape he'd be fat. Now that he's lost that yard of pace though, and has to drop into midfield, it doesn't suit him at all. He's not a playmaker and never will be - he doesn't have the mind for it. He has to stop and think about what he needs to do next to move the ball on, while the very best know what they're doing before they even receive the ball.

Rooney had his best seasons as a striker, I'm not sure he'll be able to replicate that at a top team again. He's still intelligent of course, but I don't think he's a midfielder at a club with title aspirations.

Jayop

He's not worth keeping around

Crap pole with only extremes as the options. He should be in the starting 11 if his contributions warrant it. That's a long way from a bench warmer or the first name on the team sheet. I replied the first answer because it's the closest to my view that currently he is justifying his place.

eagle eye

United have played 3 games and have 9 points with a +5 goal difference. Why would you want to drop any player?

Flint Fredstone

A good option from the bench

Jayop wrote: »

Crap pole with only extremes as the options. He should be in the starting 11 if his contributions warrant it. That's a long way from a bench warmer or the first name on the team sheet. I replied the first answer because it's the closest to my view that currently he is justifying his place.

Well he's been playing at a consistent level for a while now. Answer the poll with his form in mind.

Flint Fredstone

A good option from the bench

eagle eye wrote: »

United have played 3 games and have 9 points with a +5 goal difference. Why would you want to drop any player?

To be better?

eagle eye

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

To be better?

It's hard to beat three wins out of three. How do you get better than that?

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

It's hard to beat three wins out of three. How do you get better than that?

Score more goal
Create more chances
Improvements can be made, especially in attack. Regardless of the current points total

eagle eye

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Score more goal
Create more chances

And live in lalaland I suppose?

Flint Fredstone

A good option from the bench

eagle eye wrote: »

It's hard to beat three wins out of three. How do you get better than that?

92nd minute winners won't happen every week. If there's a couple of changes that may prevent it getting to that stage then why not try it?
Sure why sign any new players after winning a league if that's the attitude?

It's not like goal difference ever cost United anything either...

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

And live in lalaland I suppose?

LVG also got 3 wins in a row last season
But the football was dreadful
Come up against a better team and that's where it will matter

eagle eye

Your current manager has more Premier league titles than anybody(the same as Wenger) else currently managing. You have three wins from three games.

Why the hell would you want to change anything? If you lose or even draw a game then you can talk but as long as you keep winning then I don't see how you can even consider anything but being happy at supporting your club.

Jayop

He's not worth keeping around

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

92nd minute winners won't happen every week. If there's a couple of changes that may prevent it getting to that stage then why not try it?
Sure why sign any new players after winning a league if that's the attitude?

It's not like goal difference ever cost United anything either...

Nor will comfortable 2 and 3 nil wins. The point being?

Sometimes you win easy, sometimes you draw, sometimes you get a late winner to break down a resolute defense, sometimes we'll even lose. This is the nature of league football.

Jayop

He's not worth keeping around

eagle eye wrote: »

Your current manager has more Premier league titles than anybody(the same as Wenger) else currently managing. You have three wins from three games.

Why the hell would you want to change anything? If you lose or even draw a game then you can talk but as long as you keep winning then I don't see how you can even consider anything but being happy at supporting your club.

Because for some 3 wins isn't enough. They should have been 3 very comfortable wins. Or even then they should have been 3 very comfortable wins with Rooney playing 9/10 in each of them to stop the criticism.

He's a notoriously slow starter to get up to full form, but even now whilst not being at full tilt he's made match winning contributions in 2 of these games.

Passed the ball to Valencia a lot tho....

Pete Moss

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

To be better?

How so? Rooney has scored one and assisted two in three games, including Rashford's 90+ minute winner at the weekend.

Now, while a last minute winner against a depleted Hull side isn't exactly "free-flowing-Barca-super-sexy-football" (TM Pending) United are still winning and getting points on the board and, so far, Rooney has made a decent contribution to those points.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Your current manager has more Premier league titles than anybody(the same as Wenger) else currently managing. You have three wins from three games.

Why the hell would you want to change anything? If you lose or even draw a game then you can talk but as long as you keep winning then I don't see how you can even consider anything but being happy at supporting your club.

How are you not getting this
There are so many areas to improve
It's only 3 games into the season
To suddenly come to the conclusion that nothing else needs to change so early in the season is nonsense

This thread = Some of us believe it can be improved further if Rooney is dropped and replaced by a better option in the number 10 position I.E Mata or Miki - this hasn't being proven yet as they haven't got the chance
And others believe he should stay in the team because of the amount of goals and assists

As to other areas:
Some believe Martial should be dropped and rested in place of Rashford
Some have issues relating to where Smalling fits in now that Baily is playing a blinder.
Who should partner Pogba in midfield?
Does Blind deserve to hold his place?
Should Darmian start or Valencia? Who provides a bigger threat on the wings?
The list goes on

eagle eye

M!Ck^ wrote: »

How are you not getting this
There are so many areas to improve
It's only 3 games into the season
To suddenly come to the conclusion that nothing else needs to change so early in the season is nonsense

This thread = Some of us believe it can be improved further if Rooney is dropped and replaced by a better option in the number 10 position I.E Mata or Miki - this hasn't being proven yet as they ahven't got the chance
And others believe he should stay in the team because of the amount of goals and assists

As to other areas:
Some believe Martial should be dropped and rested in place of Rashford
Some have issues relating to where Smalling and where he fits in now.
Who should partner Pogba in midfield?
Does Blind deserve to hold his place?
Should Darmian start or Valencia? Who provides a bigger threat on the wings?
The list goes on

What I'm saying is that you have one of the best managers in world football. You have three wins out of three in the Premier league.

He is choosing Wayne Rooney ahead of other players and he is no fool and his hand will not be forced.

How do you come to the conclusion that you know more than a three time Premier league winning manager with a 100% record this season who goes by the name of Jose Mourinho?

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

What I'm saying is that you have one of the best managers in world football. You have three wins out of three in the Premier league.

He is choosing Wayne Rooney ahead of other players and he is no fool and his hand will not be forced.

How do you come to the conclusion that you know more than a three time Premier league winning manager with a 100% record this season who goes by the name of Jose Mourinho?

Because some of us are also critical of Jose perhaps?

eagle eye

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Because some of us are also critical of Jose perhaps?

I rolled my eyes after reading this.

Skylinehead

eagle eye wrote: »

What I'm saying is that you have one of the best managers in world football. You have three wins out of three in the Premier league.

He is choosing Wayne Rooney ahead of other players and he is no fool and his hand will not be forced.

How do you come to the conclusion that you know more than a three time Premier league winning manager with a 100% record this season who goes by the name of Jose Mourinho?

Jose Mourinho is not infallible, but you're acting like he is. Especially after last season...

Sometimes good managers get decisions wrong. Hell, even Fergie did, plenty of times.

eagle eye

Skylinehead wrote: »

Jose Mourinho is not infallible, but you're acting like he is. Especially after last season...

Sometimes good managers get decisions wrong. Hell, even Fergie did, plenty of times.

I'm saying that right now with 9 points from three games he is infallible.

He is not infallible as far as the longer term but until such time as his record at Manchester United falls below 100% he is.

Jayop

He's not worth keeping around

Skylinehead wrote: »

Jose Mourinho is not infallible, but you're acting like he is. Especially after last season...

Sometimes good managers get decisions wrong. Hell, even Fergie did, plenty of times.

He sure did, and I don't buy into the argument that you can't question the managers decisions no matter who he is even if I am defending Rooney.

Sure, have the debate, but lets not pretend that Rooney is now some glorified pub footballer who can't execute teh basic skills of the game. That's the kind of hyperbole that is thrown at him by some of the people that dislike him.

On the other hand, the people who do like him are criticized for saying perfectly reasonable things like he's made winning contributions in two of the three games or that he's played better than others in the attack.

Skylinehead

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm saying that right now with 9 points from three games he is infallible.

He is not infallible as far as the longer term but until such time as his record at Manchester United falls below 100% he is.

So you're saying that winning teams can never be criticised? Bollox. Barca fans find plenty to argue about when they're smashing teams 5-0 every match, and they're well within their rights to. If a team can be improved with changes regardless of winning their matches, and they weren't very good against Hull, then there's always scope for criticism. Your view on this is far too black and white, winning = good, losing = bad. Football is far more nuanced than that.

Dirty Dingus McGee

eagle eye wrote: »

It's hard to beat three wins out of three. How do you get better than that?

You can always improve a winning team.

Don't change a winning team is the greatest bull**** cliche that was ever invented in any sport.

Donnielighto

A good option from the bench

eagle eye wrote: »

And live in lalaland I suppose?

So united are unable to improve on the first three games?

Agent Coulson

He's not worth keeping around

Start him every game till he breaks the goal scoring record and hope he does it before January then ship him out in the next window to China for a billion pounds*. (That what I think Jose will do)





*May not reach that amount but a Chinese club will offer stupid money for him.

Drumpot

eagle eye wrote: »

What I'm saying is that you have one of the best managers in world football. You have three wins out of three in the Premier league.

He is choosing Wayne Rooney ahead of other players and he is no fool and his hand will not be forced.

How do you come to the conclusion that you know more than a three time Premier league winning manager with a 100% record this season who goes by the name of Jose Mourinho?

I don't understand how Rooney starts and continues to be supported by concurrent united managers (its not just Jose). The only reason SAF was going to get rid of him was because of the contract BS, it wasn't because Rooney wasn't good enough. Rooney's best (arguable) season was sometime ago....

But, I agree with you. There are regularly players on teams that have you scratching your head. Many United fans used to complain about Park, Butt, Philly Neville and the likes because they weren't marquee players. "Why does SAF start with Park in the big games" was a regular complaint. They did a job that wasn't enjoyable, but the fact that SAF was manager didn't stop them with the stupid "well SAF isn't infallible" comments as if that somehow validated their opinion.

Kuyt is one that comes to mind (I am sure there are plenty more). A friend of mine (Liverpool fan) would give out the pay about him starting consistently. then we both went to United v Liverpool (one were Mighty masch talked himself into a red card!) and while Pool were awful, my friend said he would never complain about kuyt starting again. His workrate was simply amazing and it didn't come across on TV. Out of a very strong Pool Team (Alonso, Masch, Gerrard, Torres), kuyt was the stand out player but not on TV!.

The truth is that yes, managers get things wrong, but top managers like SAF, LVG and Jose would hardly all agree on one player out of some random misguided inability to spot something that barstool managers seem to be so sure about. I don't think Rooney is very good, but I revert back to the fact that not one manager he has had dropped him because of his ability (or lack of). That's enough for me to accept I am just not able to objectively judge his ability.

fatherted1969

Haven't voted as I think eventually MikI will force his way into the 11 along with Rashford and of the current 11 then Mata and Rooney will find it difficult to keep their positions. As it stands he's their on merit and until his form dips a little more then he stays

He's been playing at the top level since he was 17 so it's not really surprising when you look at the falls of Owen, Fowler, Torres, Gerrard (not bashing liverpool players just these have come to mind) when they hit 30, Gerrard to be probably fair lasted a couple of years after 30 but dipped hugely after that

SantryRed

I'm honestly so confused that there is even a question about this.

I don't care if United have won 3 out of 3, have people actually been watching the games? He's very clearly very sloppy in possession and has been slow down some fast attacks by United.

I know he contributed to the goal against Hull, but he's very clearly not as good as Mkhitaryan (or however ya spell it). He's getting in the way. I don't think he'll still be starting by season's end.

Jayop

He's not worth keeping around

SantryRed wrote: »

I'm honestly so confused that there is even a question about this.

I don't care if United have won 3 out of 3, have people actually been watching the games? He's very clearly very sloppy in possession and has been slow down some fast attacks by United.

I know he contributed to the goal against Hull, but he's very clearly not as good as Mkhitaryan (or however ya spell it). He's getting in the way. I don't think he'll still be starting by season's end.

See, I'd question if you actually watched the games then if this is the statement you're making.

Rooney is averaging better passing than everyone else in the front four in almost every area statistically.

Rooney
Pass completion average - 87%
Average pass distance - 19m
Chances created - 8

Mata
Pass completion average - 88%
Average pass distance - 17m
Chances created - 3

Martial
Pass completion average - 84%
Average pass distance - 13m
Chances created - 5

Ibra (not a fair comparison because Ibra plays further forward)
Pass completion average - 70%
Average pass distance - 13m
Chances created - 4

So in terms of Rooney being "clearly very sloppy" with the ball, the fact is that only one of our forward 4 players have had a higher pass completion rate and that was only by 0.5%.

Also, in terms of him slowing down our attacks, it's telling that he has in fact created almost double the chances that anyone else has in the front 4.

http://www.squawka.com/players/wayne-rooney/stats#performance-score#manchester-united-(current)#english-barclays-premier-league#8#season-2016/2017#641#all-matches#1-3#by-match


Now, I'm not saying Rooney has been playing wonderfully, but at the same time it's clearly absolute BS some of the accusations leveled at him.

If he's as bad as you claim he is then surely you can point to things he does wrong that are actual reality.

Iused2likebusts

Rooney hasn't had a standout season since the season before rvp signed for utd. One of the problems of the post fergie era was having Rooney as the marquee player. That has now come to an end with the signing of pogba and ibra. I haven't seen a utd game yet this season so can't comment on how he is playing but if he doesn't deserve to be in the team I'd be fairly sure Jose will leave him out fairly sharpish. The england situation is an interesting one big Sam has now more or less committed to him for the next two years. However when you look at the alternatives who else could he give the armband to.

Jayop

He's not worth keeping around

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Rooney hasn't had a standout season since the season before rvp signed for utd. One of the problems of the post fergie era was having Rooney as the marquee player. That has now come to an end with the signing of pogba and ibra. I haven't seen a utd game yet this season so can't comment on how he is playing but if he doesn't deserve to be in the team I'd be fairly sure Jose will leave him out fairly sharpish. The england situation is an interesting one big Sam has now more or less committed to him for the next two years. However when you look at the alternatives who else could he give the armband to.

Like you say, it's only 2 years with England and by then the crop of young lads that are coming through now should have one stand out candidate. Ali, Kane, Dyer, Smalling, Stones, Barkley, Shaw... Any of those could be the next captain, but none of them are even their club captains yet.

bucketybuck

eagle eye wrote: »

What I'm saying is that you have one of the best managers in world football. You have three wins out of three in the Premier league.

He is choosing Wayne Rooney ahead of other players and he is no fool and his hand will not be forced.

How do you come to the conclusion that you know more than a three time Premier league winning manager with a 100% record this season who goes by the name of Jose Mourinho?

This reasoning when applied to any argument will never fail to be utterly retarded.

SantryRed wrote: »

I don't care if United have won 3 out of 3, have people actually been watching the games?

Amusingly, some of the people most vocal about Rooney have in fact not watched the games.

Dempsey

A good option from the bench

Rooney's performances have been very average. Alot of sideways passing that very average players can pick out, alot of dropping 5+ yards off the play so he has time to think on the ball just to pick out a safe passing option. He rarely opts to take a pass under pressure to create space for others and he should be told to stop long passing the ball. They seem to go in slow motion and leaves the receiving player with very little time on the ball or they go out of play.

United could be spending that sort of money on a better player.

Richard Hillman

A good option from the bench

He is a well intentioned burden. He never shys away from things, even when he is playing badly but can be incredibly counter-productive for the teams he plays for. His performances for England particularly has been to the detriment of the guys up front and now in midfield.

He is one of the greatest talents that england has ever produced, amd he has a good team ethic but he is one of the dumbest players I have ever experienced. Now that the body is going, he doesnt have the intelligence to carry him forward.

He's not worth keeping around

Has declined badly, probably down to not looking after himself as he should.

Still worth a starting place for ManU. I presume Mourinhio sees him as a first teamer when fit

Pro. F

The poll is ridiculous. Why not include the option of "regular starter" or something like that? Why is the only positive option the extreme of "first name on the team sheet"? Such an obvious effort to manipulate the result.