Wayne f*cking Rooney

Liam O

Kirby wrote: »

When you play well and win, you keep doing what you did to bring about that result. So yes, Mata at 10 again is the most logical course of action.....seeing as he played quite well and United won....and he has never been a winger and 10 is his natural position......I mean if you just follow the thought process through to its logical conclusion.

You would be a fool to go tinker with that team. Keep picking it until it stops working. Sure Ranieri picked the same 11 every week and it won them the title....and he was known as the tinker man.

The team that played the first few games was working as well while clearly not being the optimal use of a lot of the players. Is it a case of stumbling upon something that kind of works and hoping that it sticks together for long enough? No, it's about using the resources available in any way that you can to win over a sustained period of time. Whether that means a different 11 every game or the same for 38 then that's what the manager lives and dies on. It's not as cut and dry as just keep the same team.

Fellaini was probably United's most important player those first games and there were gaping holes in midfield again yesterday before the blitz at the end of the first half. These were there in previous games but not so pronounced and a 3 man midfield will make mincemeat of it imo.

Similarly Mata has come up short in a lot of games when given his supposed best position at number 10 and for similar enough reasons to Rooney's recent failings. Dropping too deep and not making an impact up front. He obviously got involved up there yesterday but one swallow and all that jazz. Doesn't automatically mean he's the best option for everything going forward.

Billy86

Liam O wrote: »

Similarly Mata has come up short in a lot of games when given his supposed best position at number 10 and for similar enough reasons to Rooney's recent failings. Dropping too deep and not making an impact up front. He obviously got involved up there yesterday but one swallow and all that jazz. Doesn't automatically mean he's the best option for everything going forward.

One of the more common defenses of Rooney is that nobody should have been judged much during LVG's reign due to the dire nature of play and philos---no I'm not using that word . If that is to be the case, then it would also have to absolutely apply to Mata in the same sense.

Not to say Mata deserves to be our automatic #10 starter after yesterday, but I would be quite nonplussed were he to not be starting there vs. Stoke next week.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

Pro. F wrote: »

I was talking about what we should expect over the next few games, about finding the best 11. Mata played well, so starting him next time makes sense, but whether he will work out as first choice in the role is still far from certain.

Obviously. The same way Rooney played poorly for most if not nearly all of the season so far and not starting him made sense. That was obvious also.

Pro. F

Nalz wrote: »

Obviously. The same way Rooney played poorly for most if not nearly all of the season so far and not starting him made sense. That was obvious also.

You are wrong. Rooney has played well in most of the games he has played this season.

Billy86

Rooney's games this season... quick show of hands over which people think were good performances and which people think were not?

Bournemouth (A)
Southampton (H)
Hull (A)
Man City (H)
Watford (A)
Northampton (A)

Pro. F

Billy86 wrote: »

Rooney's games this season... quick show of hands over which people think were good performances and which people think were not?

Bournemouth (A)
Southampton (H)
Hull (A)
Man City (H)
Watford (A)
Northampton (A)

What's the point? We've discussed them all when they happened, and there's been disagreement. What's the point of restating our opinions now, when more time has passsed?

Billy86

Pro. F wrote: »

What's the point? We've discussed them all when they happened, and there's been disagreement. What's the point of restating our opinions now, when more time has passsed?

If he played well in most of them, which 4+ games did he play well in? Not just pointed at you, it's a pretty simple question directed at anyone reading the thread. You made the statement that he has played well in most our games, so why are you acting hostile to it being discussed?

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

Pro. F wrote: »

You are wrong. Rooney has played well in most of the games he has played this season.

You are wrong. He has not. 1 game maybe. That is it.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

Pro. F wrote: »

What's the point? We've discussed them all when they happened, and there's been disagreement. What's the point of restating our opinions now, when more time has passsed?

You still felt the need to correct me and say I'm wrong, what was the point in that if we've discussed them and there's an obvious disagreement?

Billy86

Billy86 wrote: »

Rooney's games this season... quick show of hands over which people think were good performances and which people think were not?

Bournemouth (A)
Southampton (H)
Hull (A)
Man City (H)
Watford (A)
Northampton (A)

At a glance:
Bournemouth (A) - Awful first half. Improved second half and Scored in the second.
Southampton (H) - Good Assist for the goal but other than that Meh
Hull (A) - Head-wrecking performance bar the assist which to be fair was crucial
Man City (H) - 0 shots on target, 0% tackle win rate, 7 tackles, 16 crosses, 19% cross accuracy. Yeah
Watford (A) - Worst perforamnce of the season by far
Northampton (A) - Battles it out for the Watford game as one of the worst performances of the season

Pro. F

Billy86 wrote: »

If he played well in most of them, which 4+ games did he play well in? Not just pointed at you, it's a pretty simple question directed at anyone reading the thread. You made the statement that he has played well in most our games, so why are you acting hostile to it being discussed?

What did I say that you think was hostile?

Billy86

Pro. F wrote: »

What did I say that you think was hostile?

Your disliking of and opposition to discussing it, given you had brought it up in the first place.

Pro. F

Billy86 wrote: »

Your disliking of and opposition to discussing it, given you had brought it up in the first place.

That's a strange interpretation of the word "hostile."

Edit: actually, I see some dictionaries don't carry the antagonistic/unfriendly interpretations of that word, so I suppose that's the way you see it. Weak dictionaries tbh.

Flint Fredstone

A good option from the bench

A nice quote to grace this lovely Monday afternoon.

"Let go of your attachment to being right, and suddenly your mind is more open.

You're able to benefit from the unique viewpoints of others, without being crippled by your own judgement"

Pro. F

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

A nice quote to grace this lovely Monday afternoon.

"Let go of your attachment to being right, and suddenly your mind is more open.

You're able to benefit from the unique viewpoints of others, without being crippled by your own judgement"

Are you going to apply it to your opinion on Rooney?

Potential Underachiever

Pro. F wrote: »

You are wrong. Rooney has played well in most of the games he has played this season.

So why do 99% of Utd fans want him benched? Why have the masses on the poll on this thread voted he should be sold or benched? Why was he benched against Leicester?

I'm not sure what you have been watching but he has been awful, playing woeful in a game and then toe poking an assist to someone does not mask the fact that he had an abysmal game.

Billy86

Pro. F wrote: »

That's a strange interpretation of the word "hostile."

Edit: actually, I see some dictionaries don't carry the antagonistic/unfriendly interpretations of that word, so I suppose that's the way you see it. Weak dictionaries tbh.

All I'm asking is for people to quickly point out which games they thought were good and which they thought were bad. If you don't want to point out the 4+ good performances you claim he has had this season, that is fine. It would raise eyebrows though

Pro. F

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

So why do 99% of Utd fans want him benched? Why have the masses on the poll on this thread voted he should be sold or benched?

Because scapegoats are handy.

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Why was he benched against Leicester?

Because he played poorly in the second half against Watford. I'd say that was the primary reason.

Billy86

Pro. F wrote: »

Because he played poorly in the second half against Watford. I'd say that was the primary reason.

Wouldnt it then have been logical then for him to have been benched against Northampton in the next game, as opposed to Leicester in the one after that?

Pro. F

Billy86 wrote: »

Wouldnt it then have been logical then for him to have been benched against Northampton in the next game, as opposed to Leicester in the one after that?

Not necessarily, because the Northampton game was going to be the easier task.

Pro. F

Billy86 wrote: »

All I'm asking is for people to quickly point out which games they thought were good and which they thought were bad. If you don't want to point out the 4+ good performances you claim he has had this season, that is fine. It would raise eyebrows though

Fair enough. Maybe there is good reason to restate these things.

I think he played well in Bournemouth, Southampton, Hull and the first half against Watford. I think his performance against Norhampton was fine. Nothing special, but nothing bad.

racso1975

I think only a fool could argue he has not been a fantastic player scoring in approx every 2.2 games during his playing career.

However he is not the player he once was and trying to fit him into the team is pandering to him and not the best interests of the team. I honestly think he could still have a great career with another team even in the premiership but as for a team with title/champions league desires he is not an asset. Nobody believes he will take that though.

I think Jose has given himself a phenomenal headache now for the next match as to what to do with him.

I really fear that Mata, who imo has lots of games and potential left in him, could still be shown the door in January as opposed to Rooney.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

Pro. F wrote: »

Because he played poorly in the second half against Watford. I'd say that was the primary reason.

Mourinho benched his captain in a home game vs Leicester because of one poor 45mins performance, that's the primary reason? Not buying that for one second.

There's more "primary reasons". You are wrong.

Flint Fredstone

A good option from the bench

You lads are worse for entertaining him :pac:

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

You lads are worse for entertaining him :pac:

You are wrong too





:pac:

Pro. F

Nalz wrote: »

Mourinho benched his captain in a home game vs Leicester because of one poor 45mins performance, that's the primary reason? Not buying that for one second.

There's more "primary reasons". You are wrong.

I agree that there's more than one reason, but the second half against Watford would be the most imporant one. There's also the fact that Rooney had been getting dog's abuse from fans and press online, so taking him out of the limelight would take the pressure off Rooney and Mourinho. There's also the fact that trying out different options in the first XI is a good idea. There's also the fact that a CF was needed for the less important, midweek games and Rashford hadn't worked there in the last one.

eagle eye

Nalz wrote: »

Obviously. The same way Rooney played poorly for most if not nearly all of the season so far and not starting him made sense. That was obvious also.

Same way Blind hadn't played very well, oh wait he was brought back into the starting lineup! Same way Pogba has been poor in every game before Saturday and still started?

Did it make sense to start Pogba? Did it make sense to start Blind? I'm talking about before the game here not after.

There are others too. I'm not Rooney's biggest fan by any means but people seem to be blaming him for all United's woes which is way ott. He hasn't been playing very well but he has been far from the worst player in United's team in every game so far.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Same way Blind hadn't played very well, oh wait he was brought back into the starting lineup! Same way Pogba has been poor in every game before Saturday and still started?

Did it make sense to start Pogba? Did it make sense to start Blind? I'm talking about before the game here not after.

There are others too. I'm not Rooney's biggest fan by any means but people seem to be blaming him for all United's woes which is way ott. He hasn't been playing very well but he has been far from the worst player in United's team in every game so far.

Rooney playing in the team impacts the effectiveness of our attack and has implications on every attacking player. Focul point of the attack wasn't Rooney on Saturday and it showed.

eagle eye

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Rooney playing in the team impacts the effectiveness of our attack and has implications on every attacking player. Focul point of the attack wasn't Rooney on Saturday and it showed.

Just to clarify, I'd start Mata over Rooney every day of the week. What I'm saying here is that the furure over Rooney is unjustified because he has done some good things and hasn't been near the worst United player in any league game this season.

I read on here where people were not happy to see Lingard in the starting lineup on a couple of occasions. You'd wonder do they actually watch games at all because he is the hardest working player on the pitch every time I see him play.

I'm not actually saying that Rooney should be starting either, it's just the fuss and overreaction over the whole thing is what I have an issue with.

Last Saturday's starting lineup was a good one imo. I thought that before the game kicked off and it answered some questions that were starting to loom concerning Mourinho and players not being selected to start, like Mata and Herrera, who have played well when they have been given opportunities.

sReq | uTeK

Pro. F wrote: »

You are wrong. Rooney has played well in most of the games he has played this season.

Surely then he should have started.

Imo Rooney has been dreadful. Yes he's got a goal and 2 assists but his overall contribution has been terrible.

limnam

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Surely then he should have started.

Fel has been the most consistent player and he didn't start.

Carrick all be it against league 1 put in the most dominant midfield performance of the season didn't start.

Why would Rooney have to?

It's funny that most of the sky sports highlight package for pogba was hollywood passes across the pitch to valencia. Not a word said.

Mata gave the ball away on numerous occasions in the first half and was caught out in a potentially very dangerous position losing the ball.

rashford ran the ball blindly into defenders with over zealous touches and ballooned basically an open goal.

Ibra lost the ball numerous times and after the take down on his chest couldn't put the ball in the net. got caught out a number of times and was more concerned about a foul than the ball been played into him by lingard

But we put away the champions with 3 badly defended corners and we're world beaters again.

The spotlight is on rooney and every touch is under the microscope. While every other player on the pitch can get away with it.

It was interesting watching someone summaries his games earlier "but scored" "but setup the goal"


Einsteins :pac:

Pro. F

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Surely then he should have started.

Not necessarily.

Liam McPoyle

Pro. F wrote: »

Not necessarily.

Why not?

Blind and Bailly have been by and large good, so has Rashford and a few others and they werent dropped.

Surely if Rooney's only poor performance was in 45 minutes against Watford (I think that's what you said) then you would be very unhappy that he was dropped for Leicester?

The argument doesn't make much sense tbh.

Player plays consistently well but gets dropped.

limnam

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Player plays consistently well but gets dropped.

Fellaini?

Pro. F

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

Why not?

Blind and Bailly have been by and large good, so has Rashford and a few others and they werent dropped.

Surely if Rooney's only poor performance was in 45 minutes against Watford (I think that's what you said) then you would be very unhappy that he was dropped for Leicester?

The argument doesn't make much sense tbh.

Player plays consistently well but gets dropped.

I am not going to detail the possible explanations to you for why a player getting dropped can be justified even if they have only had one poor 45 minutes. It is utterly ridiculous for you to be confused by that proposition.

Giggsy11

eagle eye wrote: »

Same way Blind hadn't played very well, oh wait he was brought back into the starting lineup! Same way Pogba has been poor in every game before Saturday and still started?

Did it make sense to start Pogba? Did it make sense to start Blind? I'm talking about before the game here not after.

There are others too. I'm not Rooney's biggest fan by any means but people seem to be blaming him for all United's woes which is way ott. He hasn't been playing very well but he has been far from the worst player in United's team in every game so far.

Amazing how you get everything so wrong about ManUtd. It's like you watch some different game completely. Blind was fantastic in all the games except against City.

Pogba was MOTM against Southampton and he wasn't as bad as Rooney. Besides Rooney's problem is not just this season, it's way beyond that whereas everyone knows Pogba is a fantastic player and is getting used to the league and team.

Rooney is arguably the worst player in every game or at least worst attacker in the team in every game. He slows down every move and he just can't play quick interchanging passes anymore.

Liam McPoyle

Pro. F wrote: »

I am not going to detail the possible explanations to you for why a player getting dropped can be justified even if they have only had one poor 45 minutes. It is utterly ridiculous for you to be confused by that proposition.

No explanation needed amigo, he has been dropped because he has been by and large poor for quite some time. Whether that's his fault or the past and present managers fault, it doesn't matter.

Every one, from plebs like me to paid pundits knows it.

You can defend him til the cows come home, it doesn't make you any more right.

Liam McPoyle

limnam wrote: »

Fellaini?

He was dropped but that was proven Saturday to be a good decision. The fact is there are better options than him to get the best out of the team overall. I like Fellaini and have said from he joined us he is a good squad player to have but he is not good enough for a regular starting berth for a team that has title aspirations.

Pro. F

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

He was dropped but that was proven Saturday to be a good decision. The fact is there are better options than him to get the best out of the team overall. I like Fellaini and have said from he joined us he is a good squad player to have but he is not good enough for a regular starting berth for a team that has title aspirations.

So you can understand simple concepts that can explain how it can be justified to drop a player even if they have been mostly playing well. Good for you. I knew you had it in you.

DM_7

Rooney only shows flashes of quality now and at times games pass him by. Jose even said he dropped him to get faster players into the side. Some day soon he is going to just go with the faster players in every game.

I think part of his problems are the amount of responsibility he takes upon himsel. His body won't allow him to be that type of player anymore.

I think he is at the stage he needs to be more selfish, take less reaponsibility and put more faith in those around him. Give himself a chance to get on the end of someone elses work instead of forcing things to happen.

limnam

Saul T Nutzz wrote: »

He was dropped but that was proven Saturday to be a good decision. The fact is there are better options than him to get the best out of the team overall. I like Fellaini and have said from he joined us he is a good squad player to have but he is not good enough for a regular starting berth for a team that has title aspirations.

Your point was form players don't get dropped.

Not true.

The fact you think he's OK as a squad player is not relevant. The fact the result went the way it did and fel was dropped is not relevant. You can't deem it to be true based on that result. Considering he's been the most consistent player. That he plays def mid and considering how we won. e.g. basically corner kicks there's nothing to suggest it would have changed had he played

Liam McPoyle

Pro. F wrote: »

So you can understand simple concepts that can explain how it can be justified to drop a player even if they have been mostly playing well. Good for you. I knew you had it in you.

Thanks skip.

Korat

A good option from the bench

Pro. F wrote: »

So you can understand simple concepts that can explain how it can be justified to drop a player even if they have been mostly playing well. Good for you. I knew you had it in you.

Take a step back and look at what you're saying. I think you've got tunnel vision on this one.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

Pro. F wrote: »

So you can understand simple concepts that can explain how it can be justified to drop a player even if they have been mostly playing well. Good for you. I knew you had it in you.

Patronizio!

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Rooney playing in the team impacts the effectiveness of our attack and has implications on every attacking player. Focul point of the attack wasn't Rooney on Saturday and it showed.

With only 1 goal from play. Let's pretend Feyenoord never happened.

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Rooney is arguably the worst player in every game or at least worst attacker in the team in every game. He slows down every move and he just can't play quick interchanging passes anymore.

I think Martial has been the worst. Mata hasn't been up to much prior to the Leicester game either. Mkhitaryan and Lingard against City were absolutely woeful.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

With only 1 goal from play. Let's pretend Feyenoord never happened.

Did we have other chances other than the goals? I didnt see the game

Flint Fredstone

A good option from the bench

Nalz wrote: »

Did we have other chances other than the goals? I didnt see the game

Plenty. It was an excellent attacking performance.

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Plenty. It was an excellent attacking performance.

Which yielded 1 goal from play, and lost us the second half.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Which yielded 1 goal from play, and lost us the second half.

(a) I think we should be a lot more happy if the team is creating lots of chances and (b) the game was over at half time no? Again I didn't see the game.

Giggsy11

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

With only 1 goal from play. Let's pretend Feyenoord never happened.



I think Martial has been the worst. Mata hasn't been up to much prior to the Leicester game either. Mkhitaryan and Lingard against City were absolutely woeful.

Keep crying about Feyenoord, one day it might make sense.

No, Rooney was our consistent player this season, consistently ****. You can blame a player who barely played just 45 mins or player who was rushed from injury, point is there is no excuse for Rooney. Consistently **** for last 18 months. You keep fapping for single decent thing he does all game and ignore how many attacks he slows down or ****s up. It's like arguing with Rooney's mom.

And your other posts are laughable, for anyone with eyes and without agenda it was clear how fluent our game was and how energetic it was. Created plenty but didn't finish them off.