Wayne f*cking Rooney

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Which yielded 1 goal from play, and lost us the second half.

Cantona's Collars

Nalz wrote: »

(a) I think we should be a lot more happy if the team is creating lots of chances and (b) the game was over at half time no? Again I didn't see the game.

I was at the game,Leicester were dead an buried at half time and would have had no complaints if they were 7 down.United naturally eased off a bit in the 2nd half but were still a serious threat when they went forward.It was amazing to see how fast the play flowed minus Rooney.No tripping over the ball trying to control it and no 3 or 4 touches before a pass.
TBF to the fans they did chant his name when he was coming on bar the season ticket holder behind us who declared "I'm not chanting for that Judas".The fans want him to do well (in fairness we want all our players to do well) but they aren't stupid and the consensus around the ground is the team functioned far better without him and he will find it hard to be much more than a bit part player from now on.
Even though Zlatan didn't score,he led the line superbly and was unlucky on several occassions not to score.His glare followed by a laugh of disbelief at one of Vals 70mph "crosses" near the end was gas.

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Keep crying about Feyenoord, one day it might make sense.

So the anti-Rooney folk are allowed to use a victory in which Rooney didn't play as evidence of how better we are without him but I can't point to a defeat in which Rooney didn't play as evidence that his exclusion may not necessarily make us a better side?

Giggsy11 wrote: »

No, Rooney was our consistent player this season, consistently ****. You can blame a player who barely played just 45 mins or player who was rushed from injury, point is there is no excuse for Rooney. Consistently **** for last 18 months. You keep fapping for single decent thing he does all game and ignore how many attacks he slows down or ****s up. It's like arguing with Rooney's mom.

Martial has been worse than Rooney this season. There's no doubt about it.

Giggsy11 wrote: »

And your other posts are laughable, for anyone with eyes and without agenda it was clear how fluent our game was and how energetic it was. Created plenty but didn't finish them off.

I have no agenda. I agree, we looked very good against Leicester, but it's still only 1 game. And for anyone with eyes it was clear that we profited mainly from shambolic set piece defending. It will be a long time before we score 3 goals from corners again.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

M!Ck^ wrote: »

oh Nora you beautiful thing

Cantona's Collars

This is damning of Moyes from The Guardian: Rooney was given info and consulted about any incoming transfers,Fergie basically told him to fuck off and concentrate on playing when he was telling Fergie who to sign during his "clubs lack of ambition" phase.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/26/wayne-rooney-david-moyes-manchester-united-transfer

Rooney was given advance notice about the £37.1m deal to sign Juan Mata and has also spoken at length to the manager, David Moyes, and the chief executive, Ed Woodward, about their vision of the club under the Glazer family's ownership, in complete contrast to what happened when Ferguson was in charge.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

score 3 goals from corners again.

especially if Wayne takes them!!

Flint Fredstone

A good option from the bench

zerks wrote: »

This is damning of Moyes from The Guardian: Rooney was given info and consulted about any incoming transfers,Fergie basically told him to fuck off and concentrate on playing when he was telling Fergie who to sign during his "clubs lack of ambition" phase.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/26/wayne-rooney-david-moyes-manchester-united-transfer

Not sure how true that is but it's funny now that he's the one not up to the standard of the club if he was concerned about the standards of the guys coming in.

Cantona's Collars

Nalz wrote: »

especially if Wayne takes them!!

We'll have to put the players in the stands to receive the ball.

Iused2likebusts

Big Sam going not the best of news for Rooney either.

Flint Fredstone

A good option from the bench

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Big Sam going not the best of news for Rooney either.

Sam said he wouldn't be picking players that weren't getting a game for their club. Would have been interesting to see how that panned out.

Iused2likebusts

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Sam said he wouldn't be picking players that weren't getting a game for their club. Would have been interesting to see how that panned out.

Ye I'd seen those comments.I'd imagine he would still have picked him this time around. Would have had a big decision to make come the next international break if Rooney stayed out of utd team. Although with Europa and Carling cup games he could have delayed the decision even longer.

inforfun

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

With only 1 goal from play. Let's pretend Feyenoord never happened.

Hey..... lets not

Potential Underachiever

inforfun wrote: »

Hey..... lets not

Are you a Feyenoord (sp) fan? How'd you feel about them being labelled as minnows recently!?!

inforfun

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Are you a Feyenoord (sp) fan? How'd you feel about them being labelled as minnows recently!?!

Yes, i am indeed.

At the moment, top of the league with 7 wins from 7, 1-0 at home to Utd, next round Dutch cup, i couldnt care less about how other people look at them.

It is a fact that the Dutch league cant compete, financially, with a lot of/most other leagues. If that makes them minnows, so be it.
All i know is that i watch a lot of football and when i look as a neutral (basically every match i see bar Feyenoord) i am a lot more entertained with matches from Holland (and some South American leagues) than with the majority of matches i see from so called big leagues.

All those rich, "big" clubs should remember is that there was a time, Feyenoord was the richest club in the world (early 70's) and that this financial windfall might not be forever.

Potential Underachiever

inforfun wrote: »

Yes, i am indeed.

At the moment, top of the league with 7 wins from 7, 1-0 at home to Utd, next round Dutch cup, i couldnt care less about how other people look at them.

It is a fact that the Dutch league cant compete, financially, with a lot of/most other leagues. If that makes them minnows, so be it.
All i know is that i watch a lot of football and when i look as a neutral (basically every match i see bar Feyenoord) i am a lot more entertained with matches from Holland (and some South American leagues) than with the majority of matches i see from so called big leagues.

All those rich, "big" clubs should remember is that there was a time, Feyenoord was the richest club in the world (early 70's) and that this financial windfall might not be forever.

Fair play, I was more insulted than you even though I don't support Feyenoord!

Anyway back on topic....Stick a fork in Rooney, he's done!

inforfun

Oh, the quite arrogant remarks in the match thread were to be expected, that is why i stayed away during the match.
Think i only had 1 post in there, after the final whistle.


As for Rooney, was disappointed to see he was left out in that match. Thought playing him would give Feyenoord a better chance.
Just as in the English team during the summer, there is just no place where he can be of best use anymore.
In other words, every position he can play, there is better option available, both at Utd and the English national team.

Billy86

inforfun wrote: »

All those rich, "big" clubs should remember is that there was a time, Feyenoord was the richest club in the world (early 70's) and that this financial windfall might not be forever.

Are you sure about that? Not necessarily disputing it, but some guys like Rob Rensenbrink moved to Belgium to get better money than they felt they could in the Netherlands.

Now he was from Amsterdam granted, I just think I remember hearing that was somewhat common at the time as the Belgian league was supposed to have more money in it. Could be misremembering though, it just stuck in my mind because it was very unexpected.

inforfun

Yes i am sure about that. Being the richest club doesnt make you the necessarily the best paying.
Also tax regime in Belgium is/was much more favourable for the higher earners than the Dutch
And it was common knowledge that a lot of clubs paid under the table in Belgium in those days. That was 1 dodgy league .

Korat

A good option from the bench

Even if the Rooney disciples were correct and he's actually playing well but there's some conspiracy to blame the team's poor results on him it would still make sense to get rid of him, much like the infamous invisiblity grey strip. It's a lot easier to find one player to replace Rooney than 10 players to replace the guys making him look bad.

Iused2likebusts

Will Still be captain under southgate on SSN.

edgecutter

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Will Still be captain under southgate on SSN.

Not surprised by this at all. Rooney is still the most marketable player that England have. There was no way he would be dropped and I can see that staying the same for the foreseeable future.

StringerBell

inforfun wrote: »

Yes i am sure about that. Being the richest club doesnt make you the necessarily the best paying.
Also tax regime in Belgium is/was much more favourable for the higher earners than the Dutch
And it was common knowledge that a lot of clubs paid under the table in Belgium in those days. That was 1 dodgy league .

....And is a still a joke of a league

Korat

A good option from the bench

Not even good enough for England anymore. Utd need to offload this expensive distraction asap.

crkball6

Korat wrote: »

Not even good enough for England anymore. Utd need to offload this expensive distraction asap.

Odd, I thought he just recently retained captaincy and completed 90 minutes for them. England managers are nuts.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

crkball6 wrote: »

Odd, I thought he just recently retained captaincy and completed 90 minutes for them. England managers are nuts.

This means he's good enough? Ok then.

crkball6

Nalz wrote: »

This means he's good enough? Ok then.

Does been rotated after playing 90 minutes in recent days mean Southgate thinks he's not good enough?

Iused2likebusts

crkball6 wrote: »

Does been rotated after playing 90 minutes in recent days mean Southgate thinks he's not good enough?

He is hardly being rotated. The game to rotate in would be the easier game against Malta.

dixiefly

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37606560

England captain Wayne Rooney says he is in a "difficult period" after he was dropped for Tuesday's World Cup qualifier against Slovenia.

Interim manager Gareth Southgate said the decision was tactical and not a reflection of the forward's form.

Rooney, who was booed by sections of the Wembley crowd during Saturday's 2-0 win over Malta, has not started Manchester United's past three matches.

The 30-year-old said there was "no embarrassment" in being on the bench.

Rooney will retain the captaincy but Liverpool midfielder Jordan Henderson will be the on-field skipper on Tuesday.

Listen: 'Rooney not good enough for England'
Coleen Rooney hits out at critics
Re-live Rooney and Southgate's news conference
The United player is England's record scorer with 53 goals in 117 appearances, but has netted one goal in 12 games for club and country this season.

"My game now? Of course, I'm not denying it is in a difficult period. I've been on the bench the last few games for Manchester United but that's part of football," said Rooney, who is England's most-capped outfield player.

"I have to work hard and when I'm needed for both club and country, I'll make sure I'm ready."

Tottenham's Eric Dier will replace Rooney in midfield against Slovenia.

Southgate added: "We have looked at the way Slovenia play and I knew in my mind the profile of the midfield I wanted to play in this game. In no way is it a reflection of Wayne's performance on Saturday.

"He had a lot of the ball and played with great tactical discipline. It's not an easy decision to take because of the respect I have for him as the captain of this team."

Rooney said being dropped by England had not changed his plans to retire from international football after the 2018 World Cup in Russia.

Asked if he was surprised to be left out, he added: "No, I think it is football.

"I've played 13 years non-stop for England and given everything. A time comes when you're not the first name on the team sheet which I have been in the past."

Speaking about Henderson taking the captain's armband, Rooney praised the 26-year-old.

"I think Jordan is a fantastic leader," added Rooney. "He has taken a difficult job from [former captain] Steven Gerrard at Liverpool and grown into the position. He has great leadership qualities and he deserves his chance. It will be an incredibly proud moment for him and his family."

Analysis - Rooney has acted with a lot of class

Former England striker Chris Sutton speaking on BBC Radio 5 live

Wayne Rooney has acted with a lot of class and it is not easy for him to take being dropped, he has taken it gracefully.

Southgate has made the right decision, there isn't a place for Rooney in the current England team, it is as simple as that and we have to move on now.

You have to credit Southgate, the past two England managers didn't have the gumption to drop him and he should have been dropped.

alchemist33

So, the scapegoat got dropped and England were just as bad.

Iused2likebusts

alchemist33 wrote: »

So, the scapegoat got dropped and England were just as bad.

They were awful tonight.

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

alchemist33 wrote: »

So, the scapegoat got dropped and England were just as bad.

Similar to the United situation. Maybe Rooney isn't at fault for everything?

RasTa

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Similar to the United situation. Maybe Rooney isn't at fault for everything?

Except we have played better with Rooney out

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

RasTa wrote: »

Except we have played better with Rooney out

Except for when we didn't against Feyenoord and Zorya.

sReq | uTeK

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Except for when we didn't against Feyenoord and Zorya.

I'd argue that no one gives a toss about the europa league. Our league form has been significantly better

Billy86

Said it in the United thread yesterday, from Rooney's POV this is one of the best possible times he could have been dropped in his career as Southgate is absolutely useless. Equal parts amazing and damning (in a number of ways) that he is still the firm favourite to be the next permanent manager - http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/england/next-permanent-manager

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I'd argue that no one gives a toss about the europa league. Our league form has been significantly better

We drew with Stoke at home.

Billy86

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

We drew with Stoke at home.

Wasn't that the game where we had possibly the most possession, most chances, and most chances on target we've had all season?

With the exception of when we beat Leicester 4-1 without Rooney, of course.

Pro. F

Billy86 wrote: »

Wasn't that the game where we had possibly the most possession, most chances, and most chances on target we've had all season?

With the exception of when we beat Leicester 4-1 without Rooney, of course.

Possession, chances and chances on target are weak metrics. If you look at expected goals (a good measure of attacking quality) we had 2.7 against Stoke and 2.4 against Leceister. Those are the best numbers we've had this season, but not really much ahead of the third place - 2.2 recorded against Hull.

^lol
Weak metrics

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

^lol
Weak metrics

They are weak metrics when looking at a whole team performance and don't come close to expected goals for predictive power.

crkball6

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

He is hardly being rotated. The game to rotate in would be the easier game against Malta.

So Smalling is not good enough in comparrison to say Cahill? He looks completely lost.

Rashford? Vardy? All past it?

Southgate the tactical genius explained clearly why he wasn't starting.

Did England look any better without Rooney?

No sideways passing? No going backwards with less than 10 minutes to go?
All set pieces carried out with precision by his replacements?

If he starts against Scotland will it be rotation?

crkball6

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I'd argue that no one gives a toss about the europa league. Our league form has been significantly better

The majority of united fans care about every united game play in.

There's some band wagoners that pick and choose when to be fans.

But do we really care about them and is their opinion worth listening to?

Iused2likebusts

crkball6 wrote: »

So Smalling is not good enough in comparrison to say Cahill? He looks completely lost.

Rashford? Vardy? All past it?

Southgate the tactical genius explained clearly why he wasn't starting.

Did England look any better without Rooney?

No sideways passing? No going backwards with less than 10 minutes to go?
All set pieces carried out with precision by his replacements?

If he starts against Scotland will it be rotation?

He was dropped not rotated that's what I said. All this other stuff you are going on about is nothing to do with what I said.

sReq | uTeK

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

We drew with Stoke at home.

And played quote possibly the best we've played all season creating more goal-scoring chances in the process.

Don't confuse form with results. That would be changing the goalposts, which you do have a habit of doing.

Lets try to stick to what was originally said by Rasta and myself. Our form has been significantly better since we've dropped Rooney.

sReq | uTeK

M!Ck^ wrote: »

^lol
Weak metrics

I'd have to agree, I nearly spat my coffee out. Chances != good metric.........:eek:

sReq | uTeK

Pro. F wrote: »

They are weak metrics when looking at a whole team performance and don't come close to expected goals for predictive power.

How can you honestly post this? did you watch the game. Did you not see the performance from their goalkeeper.....

It's like you erase what you see, go to a stats website and reform your memories based on numbers.

Liam O

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

How can you honestly post this? did you watch the game. Did you not see the performance from their goalkeeper.....

It's like you erase what you see, go to a stats website and reform your memories based on numbers.

I think their keepers performance was overblown to deflect from the players. Pogba's 2 big chances had no input from the keeper and neither of Zlatan's big 2 that i can remember were far enough away from him to justify a goal. The only one I can really remember him doing a good job on was the Lingard one from close in. It was not like United were unlucky in that game, they just fluffed an awful lot of chances.

sReq | uTeK

Liam O wrote: »

I think their keepers performance was overblown to deflect from the players. Pogba's 2 big chances had no input from the keeper and neither of Zlatan's big 2 that i can remember were far enough away from him to justify a goal. The only one I can really remember him doing a good job on was the Lingard one from close in. It was not like United were unlucky in that game, they just fluffed an awful lot of chances.

Fair point, I beg to differ. I still think he had a fantastic game. Not many keepers (IMO) save the Zlatan effort (he got down ridiculously fast, and back up for the 2nd attempt) His save from Lidgard was amazing, going the opposite direction to the shot and the reflex and power to turn it away from such short range.

I'm simply stating that when someone says that creating 4 guilt edged opportunities in which you'd expect to score 7/10 times from at least 2 of them is a weak metric when coupled with possession then you have to wonder whats classified as a good performance these days.

Pro. F

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

How can you honestly post this? did you watch the game. Did you not see the performance from their goalkeeper.....

It's like you erase what you see, go to a stats website and reform your memories based on numbers.

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I'm simply stating that when someone says that creating 4 guilt edged opportunities in which you'd expect to score 7/10 times from at least 2 of them is a weak metric when coupled with possession then you have to wonder whats classified as a good performance these days.

I did not say that it wasn't a good performance.

sReq | uTeK

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I'd argue that no one gives a toss about the europa league. Our league form has been significantly better

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

We drew with Stoke at home.

Billy86 wrote: »

Wasn't that the game where we had possibly the most possession, most chances, and most chances on target we've had all season?

With the exception of when we beat Leicester 4-1 without Rooney, of course.

Pro. F wrote: »

Possession, chances and chances on target are weak metrics. If you look at expected goals (a good measure of attacking quality) we had 2.7 against Stoke and 2.4 against Leceister. Those are the best numbers we've had this season, but not really much ahead of the third place - 2.2 recorded against Hull.

Pro. F wrote: »

I did not say that it wasn't a good performance.

Based on the before conversation that was implying our league form improved without Rooney, and the fact that both mine and Billy's comments were backing this up in terms of the performance of the team against both Leicester and Stoke.

I'm perplexed, given that you don't feel it was a bad performance why you would even bother replying, not to mention a reply that is obviously intended to undermine the comments around the improved performance based on the the metrics used by Billy.

It's as if you're happy to create an argument just for the sake of it.

In synopsis

Billy "team has played class without Rooney, chances, possession, etc etc"

Pro F "they're all weak metrics"

Sreq "well not really they would be strong metrics to me, but hey you have me now I've bitten, do you think we played badly then, whats the measure of a good performance, cause it looked pretty ****ing good to me"

Pro F "Woo Hoo, someone bit, here we go"