Wayne f*cking Rooney

Cantona's Collars

Interesting article here: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/sam-allardyce-already-making-mistakes-112158488.html

Peter Shilton's view: "I don't think he's a striker anymore," the 66-year-old told BBC Sport. "We are trying to fit him in, but he's not a midfield player for me. Never will be.

"He is spraying a few balls around, but I don't think he's being very effective.

"I thought he should have retired after the Euros. It's not because he could break my record. Far from it. If he does and he plays well, fine."

Read more at http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/rooney-closes-shilton-record-ex-goalkeeper-says-he-should-retire#FFA6KjVxZUL1mi7f.99

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

The passing stat doesn't tell you if any of those passes were effective in an attacking sense.
...
Who gives a ****e if he's been passing it around midfield, he's not a midfielder. #10 apparently.

The passing success and dispossession stats tell you that the people like Zerks and Flint who are saying that Rooney gives the ball away constantly or too much are wrong.

If you want to criticise Rooney for not being creative enough with his passing then that is a different conversation. But sure lets do that one now too.

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Unless there is a clear graph showing how many times Rooney passed the ball to the striker or a winger or if he played a ball into the box either from the wing or via a through-ball or something.

Here are those charts from the first three league games so far:

vs Bournemouth:


vs Southampton:


and vs Hull:


Is this supposed to show that Rooney's passing isn't creative enough?

Thanks for that

So if I'm reading that correctly;

9 Chances created including assists in 3 games for a #10?
Also is there a graph to include a complete overview of all of his passes?

Cantona's Collars

Funny how every single corner he took failed to reach a teammate.

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Thanks for that

So if I'm reading that correctly;

9 Chances created including assists in 3 games for a #10?

8 chances created including 2 assists I think. The arrrows with circles at the base represent shots or goals, not passes/assists.

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Also is there a graph to include a complete overview of all of his passes?

Yes, at fourfourtwo statszone. They have all sorts of stuff in that same visual format.

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

Funny how every single corner he took failed to reach a teammate.

Funny how you don't defend your argument but keep just changing your criticism. So his corners aren't good enough now. Wow, that's a real worry.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

8 chances created including 2 assists I think. One of the yellow arrows represents a goal, not an assist.


Yes, at fourfourtwo statszone. They have all sorts of stuff in that same visual format.

So for me personally that's not good enough and I believe that Mata or Miki in that role would create more if given the chance
However unless given said opportunity then it's hard for me to stand behind it as it's yet to be proven

I will look up that site when I get time as I also want to see how many passes were completed in other areas of the pitch

I'm also going to have a look to see if it has anything relating to speed. As in speed of passes, how many counter attacks he was involved in, Top speed, dribbling etc..

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

M!Ck^ wrote: »

So for me personally that's not good enough and I believe that Mata or Miki in that role would create more if given the chance
However unless given said opportunity then it's hard for me to stand behind it as it's yet to be proven

I will look up that site when I get time as I also want to see how many passes were completed in other areas of the pitch

I'm also going to have a look to see if it has anything relating to speed. As in speed of passes, how many counter attacks he was involved in, Top speed, dribbling etc..

Strange how no other player is scrutinised this much after a game.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Strange how no other player is scrutinised this much after a game.

Explain why you believe it's scrutiny? And also who says that no other player hasn't been scrutinized? The comment you are making is so very generic.
I expect the best from Rooney. That's the pedigree he holds as a player historically.
I can criticize Martial which I have multiple times this season but I don't expect the best from him every game. He's a developing player.

I believe Rooney also has issues with pacing and the team suffers because of his indecision when initially in possession. But I need to review the stats to back up my opinion on this. Simple really.

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

So for me personally that's not good enough and I believe that Mata or Miki in that role would create more if given the chance
However unless given said opportunity then it's hard for me to stand behind it as it's yet to be proven

I will look up that site when I get time as I also want to see how many passes were completed in other areas of the pitch

I'm also going to have a look to see if it has anything relating to speed. As in speed of passes, how many counter attacks he was involved in, Top speed, dribbling etc..

Rooney so far this season:
2.71 chances created per 90 minutes and 0.68 assists

Not good enough... lol

Last season Dele Alli had 2.0 chances created and 0.33 assists per90.
Mkhitaryan (in the Bundesliga which is very poor defensively) only managed 2.87 chances created and 0.52 assists. The season before he only had 2.11 chances and 0.19 assists.
Last season Rakitic and Iniesta only had 2.44 chances created and 0.15 assists between the two of them combined.
Muller only had 2.31 chances and 0.19 assists at Bayern.

You are being absurd saying that 2.71 chances and 0.68 assists /90 isn't good enough.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

Rooney so far this season:
2.71 chances created per 90 minutes and 0.68 assists

Not good enough... lol

Last season Dele Alli had 2.0 chances created and 0.33 assists per90.
Mkhitaryan (in the Bundesliga which is very poor defensively) only managed 2.87 chances created and 0.52 assists. The season before he only had 2.11 chances and 0.19 assists.
Last season Rakitic and Iniesta only had 2.44 chances created and 0.15 assists between the two of them combined.
Muller only had 2.31 chances and 0.19 assists at Bayern.

You are being absurd saying that 2.71 chances and 0.68 assists /90 isn't good enough.

Until proven otherwise and they are given the chance then yes I stand behind my opinion. However absurd you believe it to be.
Pacing is also the issue for me. But again as I stated I need to do a bit of research to back that theory up.

Cantona's Collars

Pro. F wrote: »

Funny how you don't defend your argument but keep just changing your criticism. So his corners aren't good enough now. Wow, that's a real worry.

The comment was more tongue in cheek.

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Until proven otherwise and they are given the chance then yes I stand behind my opinion. However absurd you believe it to be.
Pacing is also the issue for me. But again as I stated I need to do a bit of research to back that theory up.

I didn't say it is absurd to think Mkhitaryan or Mata would be more creative, I said it is absurd to say that those Rooney creativity numbers aren't good enough. You must have put zero thought or research into that statement before you posted it.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

I didn't say it is absurd to think Mkhitaryan or Mata would be more creative, I said it is absurd to say that those Rooney creativity numbers aren't good enough. You must have put zero thought or research into that statement before you posted it.

Your benchmark is an average of 3 games and you chose to compare that to the average of completed seasons for the players you listed
I could say the same to you

Pro. F

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Your benchmark is an average of 3 games and you chose to compare that to the average of complete seasons for the players youngster listed
I could say the same to you

Now you are changing your argument completely. You didn't have any problem with the sample size when you were saying that Rooney's creativity numbers aren't good enough this season. You checked that you understood the numbers correctly and then said that they weren't good enough, no mention of any issue with the sample size. How could you make a call on whether or not Rooney's numbers are good enough if you think the sample is too small?

Do you think Messi's creativity stats weren't good enough last season? (2.41 chances and 0.53 assists per 90)

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Explain why you believe it's scrutiny? And also who says that no other player hasn't been scrutinized? The comment you are making is so very generic.
I expect the best from Rooney. That's the pedigree he holds as a player historically.
I can criticize Martial which I have multiple times this season but I don't expect the best from him every game. He's a developing player.

I believe Rooney also has issues with pacing and the team suffers because of his indecision when initially in possession. But I need to review the stats to back up my opinion on this. Simple really.

Speed of passes? First time I've come across someone looking for stats on that. I don't really know what speeds of passes will tell you. Ideally a pass will be weighted to suit the situation/pace of the receiving player. Passing a ball at too much speed is as useless as passing it slowly.

I would argue that it's somewhat contradictory that you don't expect the best from Martial because he's developing, yet you expect the best from Rooney despite the fact that he is quite clearly declining. Both are on different trajectories but can still offer something to the team. You should be expecting the best from Martial. He cost a lot of money, he's a French international and a Manchester United player, and he's well paid for it.

TheDoc

A good option from the bench

Moyes and Woodward were too stupid or stubborn to realise the gift they were getting when Ferguson gave his post match interview saying Rooney had handed in a transfer request. Was getting rid so the next manager didn't need to deal with him.

A great player for United, with a legacy tarnished by his antics and for a number of years now has just been a snake, building this incredible reputation as un-droppable through a sequence of managers domestically and internationally.

As those in the Utd thread know I have no love for Wayne Rooney, and thoroughly look forward to him leaving the club.

And he should be nowhere near the team at the moment, his performances are infuriating beyond belief. Wouldn't be starting at any other big club, or any top 4 team in England.

He is going to be the divisive figure and narrative in our thread all season

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Moyes and Woodward were too stupid or stubborn to realise the gift they were getting when Ferguson gave his post match interview saying Rooney had handed in a transfer request. Was getting rid so the next manager didn't need to deal with him.

A great player for United, with a legacy tarnished by his antics and for a number of years now has just been a snake, building this incredible reputation as un-droppable through a sequence of managers domestically and internationally.

As those in the Utd thread know I have no love for Wayne Rooney, and thoroughly look forward to him leaving the club.

And he should be nowhere near the team at the moment, his performances are infuriating beyond belief. Wouldn't be starting at any other big club, or any top 4 team in England.

He is going to be the divisive figure and narrative in our thread all season

Rooney's goals and goal creation from that Moyes season:



Yet you think Moyes should have got rid of Rooney when he came in.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

Our best 11 does not include Rooney imho
He's not worth 300k a week, is he worth half that even?

I would not be sad to see him move on at the end of the season and a number 10 of high quality (Greizemann being the obvious choice) come in during the summer.


Pardon the spelling!

Too inconsistent, too frustrating, too disappointing. Others, dare I say very few, disagree. I and many others (from my experience interacting with people on here and in the real world) agree with me to a large extent.

7

Pro. F

Nalz wrote: »

Our best 11 does not include Rooney imho
He's not worth 300k a week, is he worth half that even?

I would not be sad to see him move on at the end of the season and a number 10 of high quality (Greizemann being the obvious choice) come in during the summer.

Pardon the spelling!

Too inconsistent, too frustrating, too disappointing. Others, dare I say very few, disagree. I and many others (from my experience interacting with people on here and in the real world) agree with me to a large extent.

7

Lots of people think you are right that Rooney isn't good enough. Cool. Lots of people thought Rooney wasn't good enough when Moyes took over, but he went on to be by far our best attacking player and score and create lots of goals despite Moyes's management. Lots of people thought Moyes was a good enough manager to handle United. Lots of people thought Fellaini was a lumbering oaf who wasn't good enough for United. Lots of people can, and often are, wrong about things.

Skylinehead

Pro. F wrote: »

Lots of people think you are right that Rooney isn't good enough. Cool. Lots of people thought Rooney wasn't good enough when Moyes took over, but he went on to be by far our best attacking player and score and create lots of goals despite Moyes's management. Lots of people thought Moyes was a good enough manager to handle United. Lots of people thought Fellaini was a lumbering oaf who wasn't good enough for United. Lots of people can, and often are, wrong about things.

What a nothing statement. "People can be wrong". They can also be right you know.

bucketybuck

Some people also thought Tom Cleverley was good enough for United. Had stats to back it up and everything.

Pro. F

Skylinehead wrote: »

What a nothing statement. "People can be wrong". They can also be right you know.

I was pointing out that "lots of people agree with me" was a nothing statement. I can hardly engage with that idea to show the error of it without showing the error of it.

sReq | uTeK

Pro. F wrote: »

Lots of people think you are right that Rooney isn't good enough. Cool. Lots of people thought Rooney wasn't good enough when Moyes took over, but he went on to be by far our best attacking player and score and create lots of goals despite Moyes's management. Lots of people thought Moyes was a good enough manager to handle United. Lots of people thought Fellaini was a lumbering oaf who wasn't good enough for United. Lots of people can, and often are, wrong about things.

He might have been the best attacking option 3 years ago. He is not now and his statistics over the last 2 years have proven this.

I'd stop living in the past when justifying the inclusion in the present.

Imo we have far better players on the bench weekly that could take his place or move the players starting into his role etc.

Cantona's Collars

Carragher,

"Wayne Rooney has got a bigger problem at Manchester United in terms of getting in this team over the next three or four months than he does with England," Carragher said.

"He can still play for England. He's got a bigger problem [at United] because there are better options for where he wants to play.

"Wayne was poor at the weekend and he will have to improve if he wants to stay at Manchester United."

Before Rooney escaped a lot of criticism and pundits/journo's always had excuses ready to trot out over his bad form but bit by bit that is changing.3 years of very average performances are catching up on him.Before,we simply didn't have the options to cover his position but now we have any amount of players who can slot in there and his place will become increasingly under threat and he will have to accept the fact that the time is coming when he is no longer one of the first on the team sheet.

Pro. F

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

He might have been the best attacking option 3 years ago. He is not now and his statistics over the last 2 years have proven this.

I'd stop living in the past when justifying the inclusion in the present.

Imo we have far better players on the bench weekly that could take his place or move the players starting into his role etc.

Where have I referred to Rooney's form from three years ago to justify his inclusion in the present?

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

Some people also thought Tom Cleverley was good enough for United. Had stats to back it up and everything.

He was.

And if you want to bring up opinions on different players, how about yours on Rafael and Coleman? Time was you thought it was absurd for anybody to think that Coleman was better than Rafael. Opinions. Everybody has got them. This thread is supposed to be about opinions on Rooney.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

Pro. F wrote: »

Lots of people think you are right that Rooney isn't good enough. Cool. Lots of people thought Rooney wasn't good enough when Moyes took over, but he went on to be by far our best attacking player and score and create lots of goals despite Moyes's management. Lots of people thought Moyes was a good enough manager to handle United. Lots of people thought Fellaini was a lumbering oaf who wasn't good enough for United. Lots of people can, and often are, wrong about things.

People were harsh a little on Fellaini, me included some of the time. Just a little now. Bare in mind its only 5 games in and its probably the first time Fellaini has played 5 games in a row in his preferred position for us.

It was a new club for him, played in different positions, asked to do grubby physical, high ball, lump it up flick it on jobs one minute then protect the back four another.... play up front, play CM, play DM.

Used as a squad player in a team that wasn't functioning well under LVG and Moyes. Was never a big match winner for United. Needed time, good management etc

Other times he was just woeful and out of form.


Rooney on the other hand is on a curve downwards for the last 4 years. Stats or no stats his game had to change, different managers, age etc call it what you want but I don't see him being worth a 300k player for us or someone that can improve dramatically so that the team will improve.

Better to cut our loses. Wages too high. Not producing. Slowly getting worse and not reliable.

Great player for us over the years. Fantastic at times. Never world class as consistency let him down. For me he almost got there.

Time to move on at the end of this season I'd say. United States or China awaits

zerks

zerks wrote: »

Carragher,

"Wayne Rooney has got a bigger problem at Manchester United in terms of getting in this team over the next three or four months than he does with England," Carragher said.

"He can still play for England. He's got a bigger problem [at United] because there are better options for where he wants to play.

"Wayne was poor at the weekend and he will have to improve if he wants to stay at Manchester United."

Before Rooney escaped a lot of criticism and pundits/journo's always had excuses ready to trot out over his bad form but bit by bit that is changing.3 years of very average performances are catching up on him.Before,we simply didn't have the options to cover his position but now we have any amount of players who can slot in there and his place will become increasingly under threat and he will have to accept the fact that the time is coming when he is no longer one of the first on the team sheet.

Scholes slated both Blind & Baily
Net a mention about Wayne tho

Pro. F

Nalz wrote: »

People were harsh a little on Fellaini, me included some of the time. Just a little now. Bare in mind its only 5 games in and its probably the first time Fellaini has played 5 games in a row in his preferred position for us.

It was a new club for him, played in different positions, asked to do grubby physical, high ball, lump it up flick it on jobs one minute then protect the back four another.... play up front, play CM, play DM.

Used as a squad player in a team that wasn't achieving. Was never a big match winner for United. Needed time, good management etc

Other times he was just woeful and out of form.

The details about Fellaini are not important. As you say, it was a popular opinion to be overly harsh in judging him. The fact is, lots of people saying something doesn't make that thing true. Popular opionons of fans and pundits are often wrong, so the popularity of an opinion in football doesn't indicate the truth of that opinion.

Nalz wrote: »

Rooney on the other hand is on a curve downwards for the last 4 years. Stats or no stats his game had to change, different managers, age etc call it what you want but I don't see him being worth a 300k player for us or someone that can improve dramatically so that the team will improve.

Better to cut our loses. Wages too high. Not producing. Slowly getting worse and not reliable.

Great player for us over the years. Fantastic at times. Never world class as consistency let him down. For me he almost got there.

Time to move on at the end of this season I'd say. United States or China awaits

The vast majority of players past the age of 29 are on a downward curve. "Not as good as he used to be" is no reason for a player to be dropped.

You are wrong when you say Rooney is not producing. So far this season he has been producing.

I agree that his wages are almost certainly too high. So are Ibra's and Pogba's most likely. Pogba's transfer fee was a ridiculous waste of money. United throw money around and actively waste a lot of it. That is no reason to single out Rooney to be dropped.

bucketybuck

Pro. F wrote: »

He was.

And if you want to bring up opinions on different players, how about yours on Rafael and Coleman? Time was you thought it was absurd for anybody to think that Coleman was better than Rafael. Opinions. Everybody has got them. This thread is supposed to be about opinions on Rooney.

Cite?

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

Cite?

link

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

Pro. F wrote: »

The vast majority of players past the age of 29 are on a downward curve. "Not as good as he used to be" is no reason for a player to be dropped.

it is if he's hurting the team as a result and we can do better without

If you're not good enough or not performing well enough you should be dropped, especially if there is better options.

He's produced somewhat, don't think the figures I see you posting are great and significant enough. He's wasted a bit too and just isn't the player he used to be and we need that kinda player in there. Especially now we have Ibra in there, who does produce and is a different type of forward.

If the above is the case and you're a big name star on lots of money then its time to cut the ties at the end of the season.

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

The derby was the first defeat of the season for United, and the first game Rooney contributed neither a goal or an assist. I'd have Rooney near the bottom of the list of players who were "hurting the team" that day. Lingard, Mkhitaryan (ironically the guy who should be replacing Rooney), Pogba and Bailly would be near the top for that particular game. I don't recall Rooney hurting the team much at the business end of last season either.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

Pro. F wrote: »

He was.

And if you want to bring up opinions on different players, how about yours on Rafael and Coleman? Time was you thought it was absurd for anybody to think that Coleman was better than Rafael. Opinions. Everybody has got them. This thread is supposed to be about opinions on Rooney.

It's good to respect peoples opinions though sometimes too! I'm not getting at anyone in particular but if we all just relax a tad and debate in a non tit for tat, no grammar wars, less bluntness the threads will be more enjoyable,informative and easier to read.

Just my two cents on debating and opinions. On rare occasions I'm gulty of acting the maggot and being abrupt myself. For that I apologize!

Pro. F

Nalz wrote: »

it is if he's hurting the team as a result and we can do better without

If you're not good enough or not performing well enough you should be dropped, especially if there is better options.

He's produced somewhat, don't think the figures I see you posting are great and significant enough. He's wasted a bit too and just isn't the player he used to be and we need that kinda player in there. Especially now we have Ibra in there, who does produce and is a different type of forward.

But he is performing well enough. He has been one of the best players in our front six so far.

Nalz wrote: »

If the above is the case and you're a big name star on lots of money then its time to cut the ties at the end of the season.

The season has only just started. At the moment, based on how he and everybody else has been performing, he deserves to be starting.

We have a new manager who has had four competitive games. The time for judging what to do with Rooney at the end of the season will be the end of the season.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

The derby was the first defeat of the season for United, and the first game Rooney contributed neither a goal or an assist. I'd have Rooney near the bottom of the list of players who were "hurting the team" that day. Lingard, Mkhitaryan (ironically the guy who should be replacing Rooney), Pogba and Bailly would be near the top for that particular game. I don't recall Rooney hurting the team much at the business end of last season either.

Was he fully fit?
Was he playing #10?

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

Pro. F wrote: »

But he is performing well enough. He has been one of the best players in our front six so far.



The season has only just started. At the moment, based on how he and everybody else has been performing, he deserves to be starting.

We have a new manager who has had four competitive games. The time for judging what to do with Rooney at the end of the season will be the end of the season.

I really hope you turn out to be right because and in form Rooney and a consistent performing wide players is what this team needs.

if Rooney, Martial and Miki imrpove about 25% we're on to a good thing!

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Was he fully fit?
Was he playing #10?

He was fit enough to start, and he wasn't playing a million miles from the 10 position. Maybe if his average position was a few feet more central he might have had a better touch and a half decent idea with what to do with the ball. Who knows?

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

He was fit enough to start, and he wasn't playing a million miles from the 10 position. Maybe if his average position was a few feet more central he might have had a better touch and a half decent idea with what to do with the ball. Who knows?

He played as winger, and Rooney was on the pitch as #10
Being close to that position is not the same

I'd rather see him get a sustained opportunity in the #10 position
Same with Pogba
Same with Mata

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He played as winger, and Rooney was on the pitch as #10
Being close to that position is not the same

I'd rather see him get a sustained opportunity in the #10 position
Same with Pogba
Same with Mata

Being a few feet away from the 10 position doesn't excuse his performance on the wing. If he's that poor in any position but 10 then he mustn't be very good. Rooney was a lot better on the right in the 2nd half than Mkhitaryan was in the first.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Being a few feet away from the 10 position doesn't excuse his performance on the wing. If he's that poor in any position but 10 then he mustn't be very good. Rooney was a lot better on the right in the 2nd half than Mkhitaryan was in the first.

I never once said I was defending his performance. He was Poor but there are other factors to consider as to why he was poor.

I'm only calling out that he didn't play #10 and this is where I want to see him play for a sustained period in order to prove that he has more to offer than Rooney.

I could say the same about any of the other viable options for that position

Cantona's Collars

So now Rooney being less shit than a couple of other players v City makes his performance rank as good?
Terrible in the first half but not too bad in the 2nd.Scoring or assisting against the likes of Hull or Bournemouth is all well and good but as the main man,he needs to be doing more,especially against the big teams.They are very quick to punish a poor touch or bad pass.

I agree with M!ck that his lack of discipline as a #10 hurts the team,hard to build attacks when the man tasked with orchestrating them spends most of the time so deep he's almost a DM.He could get away with that when he was younger and had the legs but now he needs to be more restrained and stay nearer the opposition goal,never mind trying to play in every position bar goals.

eagle eye

zerks wrote: »

So now Rooney being less shit than a couple of other players v City makes his performance rank as good?
Terrible in the first half but not too bad in the 2nd.Scoring or assisting against the likes of Hull or Bournemouth is all well and good but as the main man,he needs to be doing more,especially against the big teams.They are very quick to punish a poor touch or bad pass.

I agree with M!ck that his lack of discipline as a #10 hurts the team,hard to build attacks when the man tasked with orchestrating them spends most of the time so deep he's almost a DM.He could get away with that when he was younger and had the legs but now he needs to be more restrained and stay nearer the opposition goal,never mind trying to play in every position bar goals.

How is Rooney the 'main man' when you have Ibra and Pogba?

Also, the reason Mata isn't very popular with Mourinho is because he fails to get back and dig in. Rooney does it and that is why he is ahead of Mata.

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

So now Rooney being less shit than a couple of other players v City makes his performance rank as good?

Nobody said that.

zerks wrote: »

Terrible in the first half but not too bad in the 2nd.Scoring or assisting against the likes of Hull or Bournemouth is all well and good but as the main man,he needs to be doing more,especially against the big teams.

He is no more the main man than Pogba or Ibra are. Overall this season, he has been every bit as good as Ibra and better than Pogba.

zerks wrote: »

I agree with M!ck that his lack of discipline as a #10 hurts the team,hard to build attacks when the man tasked with orchestrating them spends most of the time so deep he's almost a DM.He could get away with that when he was younger and had the legs but now he needs to be more restrained and stay nearer the opposition goal,never mind trying to play in every position bar goals.

This is simply not true. The number of times Rooney receives the ball in the attacking areas of the pitch, relative to United's total possession, is as good or better than any #10 in the league. People see him dropping deep a lot and so assume that he isn't receiving the ball where a 10 should. But his workrate and the the ground he covers is excellent. If you actually check how often he receives the ball, and where, he is excellent in regards to receiving the ball in the attacking areas of the pitch.

bucketybuck

Pro. F wrote: »

link

What has that got to do with your opinion that Tom Cleverley was good enough for Manchester United?

Now that I think about it, your insistence that Cleverley was a top class player good enough for United and your utter refusal to consider that he might actually be pretty average and a limiting factor on Uniteds potential, well, it was rather a sign of things to come wasn't it.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

What has that got to do with your opinion that Tom Cleverley was good enough for Manchester United?

Now that I think about it, your insistence that Cleverley was a top class player good enough for United and your utter refusal to consider that he might actually be pretty average and a limiting factor on Uniteds potential, well, it was rather a sign of things to come wasn't it.

I still believe he was top class for his age and that he regressed after the Moyes season. I still believe that Moyes and his tactics was the problem that season and not Cleverley. You still believe that Rafael is better than Coleman? Or maybe you believe that Rafael has regressed. Or maybe you have no opinion on Rafael now.

Now that I think about it, your insistence that the idea of Coleman being a better fullback than Rafael was wrong and your utter refusal to consider that he might actually be very good and Rafael not as good, well, it was rather a sign of things to come.

In short, we all have opinions on players. This thread is about oponions on Rooney. Not Cleverley, not Coleman and not Rafael. But you want to talk about opinions on other players, so I'm humouring you.

bucketybuck

Pro. F wrote: »

I still believe he was top class for his age and that he regressed after the Moyes season. I still believe that Moyes and his tactics was the problem that season and not Cleverley. You still believe that Rafael is better than Coleman? Or maybe you believe that Rafael has regressed. Or maybe you have no opinion on Rafael now.

Now that I think about it, your insistence that the idea of Coleman being a better fullback than Rafael was wrong and your utter refusal to consider that he might actually be very good and Rafael not as good, well, it was rather a sign of things to come.

In short, we all have opinions on players. This thread is about oponions on Rooney. Not Cleverley, not Coleman and not Rafael. But you want to talk about opinions on other players, so I'm humouring you.

But I was right about Coleman all along, he wasn't good enough for United and we have seen that in the seasons since. I was also right about Cleverley not being good enough, and time has proven me right on that score also. I was right and you were wrong.

And guess what! I'm right about Rooney too.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

But I was right about Coleman all along, he wasn't good enough for United and we have seen that in the seasons since. I was also right about Cleverley not being good enough, and time has proven me right on that score also. I was right and you were wrong.

And guess what! I'm right about Rooney too.

Guess what! I don't agree with you on any of these players. How about we discuss Wayne Rooney in this thread that was set up to discuss Wayne Rooney?

Cantona's Collars

Rooney v City:

25/31 passes.
3/16 crosses (consider our aerial advantage)
2/3 tackles
0 blocks
0 interceptions
0/2 aerial duals
4 fouls committed
0 fouls drawn
1 shot
0 on target