Wayne f*cking Rooney

Pro. F

zerks wrote: »

Rooney v City:

25/31 passes.
3/16 crosses (consider our aerial advantage)
2/3 tackles
0 blocks
0 interceptions
0/2 aerial duals
4 fouls committed
0 fouls drawn
1 shot
0 on target

2/3 successful take-ons
1 clearance
2 chances created

Funny how you left them off your list.

Leroy42

Pro F, I'm intrigued. Do you find nothing questionable at all about Rooney performances over the last few years? Do you think he is the best player in his position?

rob316

This reminds me of when Gerrard was finished at Liverpool, we all knew it except a few. When he played well the team performed or won, when he was bad we were really bad. He was shunted around the pitch to accommodate him to the detriment of the team when another player would do a better job in his position.
Every manager was afraid to drop him from a nailed on first XI selection. Rodgers even created a "quarter back role" for him, that was fine when he was spraying balls around the pitch but he was supposed to be protecting the back 4 and he just didn't have the defensive brain for it.

Rooney like Gerrard has spent his career been shunted around the pitch and managers still don't know what to do with him. He doesn't have the pace to play as a striker anymore and doesn't have the discipline to play no.10 or CM.

I got to agree with one poster, Ferguson gave his replacement the gilt edged opportunity to get rid of him because he knew he was a busted flush and would create problems as he declined further.

Pro. F

Leroy42 wrote: »

Pro F, I'm intrigued. Do you find nothing questionable at all about Rooney performances over the last few years?

Good question. I do see the slowness on the ball that his critics talk about. I see the occasional horrible touches. And the patches of these errors he sometimes goes through in games. But I also see the good things he does and I see the bad things that other, supposedly better, #10s do. Overall I think his good play is far outweighing his bad and what good play for a #10 even looks like isn't given enough regard. So often his critics are taking issue with things that are normal for a good #10 to be doing.

Leroy42 wrote: »

Do you think he is the best player in his position?

I don't know if you're talking about in the world, the league or at the club. I'm going to go with the league.

Over the last two seasons, no. But then the entire United attack was hugely inhibited by LVG. In 13/14 he was definitely one of the best #10s in the league (and that was under an awful manager) but yet many of his critics will describe that season as if he was bad. This season is young yet. He has started relatively well. If things keep going on a roughly normal trajectory from here then I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was among the best at the end of the season. There could well be one or two clearly ahead of him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is up there.

Pro. F

rob316 wrote: »

This reminds me of when Gerrard was finished at Liverpool, we all knew it except a few. When he played well the team performed or won, when he was bad we were really bad. He was shunted around the pitch to accommodate him to the detriment of the team when another player would do a better job in his position.
Every manager was afraid to drop him from a nailed on first XI selection. Rodgers even created a "quarter back role" for him, that was fine when he was spraying balls around the pitch but he was supposed to be protecting the back 4 and he just didn't have the defensive brain for it.

Rooney like Gerrard has spent his career been shunted around the pitch and managers still don't know what to do with him. He doesn't have the pace to play as a striker anymore and doesn't have the discipline to play no.10 or CM.

I got to agree with one poster, Ferguson gave his replacement the gilt edged opportunity to get rid of him because he knew he was a busted flush and would create problems as he declined further.

What discipline for a number 10 is he lacking?

Flint Fredstone

A good option from the bench

Downloaded the FIFA17 demo. First thing I did was swap out Rooney for Mata. Played Bayern and beat them 2-1.
Jose, if you're reading...

rob316

Pro. F wrote: »

What discipline for a number 10 is he lacking?

Sorry creativity I meant not discipline that was referring to playing centre midfield. Once mkhitaryan is fit he should be able to take Wayne's spot. Mkhitaryan is naturally suited to the no.10 role but he is effective out wide too.

I don't see Jose dropping Rooney so quick though, he has spent years trying to sign him while at other clubs so won't give up on him that easy.

TheDoc

A good option from the bench

Pro. F wrote: »

Rooney's goals and goal creation from that Moyes season:



Yet you think Moyes should have got rid of Rooney when he came in.

Yup, was a parting gift from Ferguson. He was clearly prepared to take the backlash and what better time for Rooney leaving to NOT be the main story, in the summer Sir Alex leaves and new manager is in place.

Fergie was trying to do Moyes and the club a favour with that end of match interview initiating Rooney's removal.

And instead Moyes and Woodward made him one of the highest paid players in the world and ensured Rooney would consolidate himself at United and be pretty much untouchable.

Pretty confident that in retrospect in a few years time, that point will look an awful blunder, and its where Rooney should have been moved on.

AgileMyth

TheDoc wrote: »

Yup, was a parting gift from Ferguson. He was clearly prepared to take the backlash and what better time for Rooney leaving to NOT be the main story, in the summer Sir Alex leaves and new manager is in place.

Fergie was trying to do Moyes and the club a favour with that end of match interview initiating Rooney's removal.

And instead Moyes and Woodward made him one of the highest paid players in the world and ensured Rooney would consolidate himself at United and be pretty much untouchable.

Pretty confident that in retrospect in a few years time, that point will look an awful blunder, and its where Rooney should have been moved on.

If Ferguson wanted to do Moyes a favour he could have left a decent squad in place.

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

TheDoc wrote: »

Yup, was a parting gift from Ferguson. He was clearly prepared to take the backlash and what better time for Rooney leaving to NOT be the main story, in the summer Sir Alex leaves and new manager is in place.

Fergie was trying to do Moyes and the club a favour with that end of match interview initiating Rooney's removal.

And instead Moyes and Woodward made him one of the highest paid players in the world and ensured Rooney would consolidate himself at United and be pretty much untouchable.

Pretty confident that in retrospect in a few years time, that point will look an awful blunder, and its where Rooney should have been moved on.

Ferguson was by no means infallible and in hindsight, considering Moyes only bought Fellaini that summer, United would have seriously struggled without Rooney that season.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Ferguson was by no means infallible and in hindsight, considering Moyes only bought Fellaini that summer, United would have seriously struggled without Rooney that season.

I can agree with both points.
He should have been moved on however to your point I don't think Moyes or Woodward would have gotten him replaced due to the transfer disaster that was that summer window.
Without having him being replaced would have been a disaster

Iused2likebusts

I don't think it would have played out much different you still had rvp Hernandez and wellbeck. The problem is if you finished 7th with Rooney gone people would look back and say it was a big mistake to let Rooney go.

Cantona's Collars

Some stories appearing in the papers about the club looking at moving Rooney on next Summer,his massive wages and dwindling influence on the team being the main reasons.

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

A nice glimpse of United without Rooney this evening.

StringerBell

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

A nice glimpse of United without Rooney this evening.

Never realised Valencia was so pivotal myself

Flint Fredstone

A good option from the bench

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

A nice glimpse of United without Rooney this evening.

8 changes but yeah... It's all about Rooney.

I knew this would happen^^^

So many factors to consider it makes my head hurt

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

8 changes but yeah... It's all about Rooney.

Yet the starting front 4 wouldn't look out of place in the first team. I'm sure if Pogba and Mata and Ibrahimovic helped United cruise to a 4 or 5 nil win it wouldn't go unnoticed on this thread.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Yet the starting front 4 wouldn't look out of place in the first team. I'm sure if Pogba and Mata and Ibrahimovic helped United cruise to a 4 or 5 nil win it wouldn't go unnoticed on this thread.

Well I for one wouldn't be rubbing peoples nose in it. Think what you like.
Jose to blame for tonight IMO

The formation and what position he had individuals playing was wrong

And anyway, nothing has changed. Either Pogba, MAta or Miki need a sustained run in the team at #10

My preference would be Pogba or Miki

bucketybuck

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

A nice glimpse of United without Rooney this evening.

What a surprise.

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I don't see any examples of me "going out my way to keep the Rooney thing going"

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

bucketybuck wrote: »

What a surprise.

What a stupid post. This thread was specifically set up to discuss Wayne Rooney, the clue is in the title.

bucketybuck

Meh.

He's not worth keeping around

He needs to come back in v Watford

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Yup, was a parting gift from Ferguson. He was clearly prepared to take the backlash and what better time for Rooney leaving to NOT be the main story, in the summer Sir Alex leaves and new manager is in place.

Fergie was trying to do Moyes and the club a favour with that end of match interview initiating Rooney's removal.

And instead Moyes and Woodward made him one of the highest paid players in the world and ensured Rooney would consolidate himself at United and be pretty much untouchable.

Pretty confident that in retrospect in a few years time, that point will look an awful blunder, and its where Rooney should have been moved on.

I'm not debating that Ferguson might have been trying to make it easier for Moyes to get rid of Rooney. It was a theory I put forward at the time. Moyes and Rooney obviously had a history of strife between them and Fergie's actions made it easy for Moyes to either get rid of Rooney or show his support for him.

Moyes clearly made the right decision in opting to keep Rooney, as he was by far the best attacking player for him that season and he would have been in even more trouble without Rooney.

You are mixing up the issue of Rooney's contract with Moyes's decision to keep him. Moyes wasn't choosing whether to offer Rooney a new contract to keep him at the club, he was already under contract. So Moyes had a simple, short term decision to make. Rooney's performance that season indicates he made the right one.

You might look back and say that from a long term financial planning point of view that Rooney's big contract (which he didn't get until February 2014) was a bad move, but you could say that about a large proportion of United's transfer and contract business in recent years. The club have been very ostentatiously splashing money about all over the place since Fergie left.

Korat

A good option from the bench

There should never be a question of having to justify the performances of the team captain to other fans of the same team. The fact that there's any doubt about Rooney's contribution on the pitch means he's not good enough. The captain should be a unifying totem figure for the team not the source of acrimonious bickering among the fans.

Pro. F

Korat wrote: »

There should never be a question of having to justify the performances of the team captain to other fans of the same team. The fact that there's any doubt about Rooney's contribution on the pitch means he's not good enough. The captain should be a unifying totem figure for the team not the source of acrimonious bickering among the fans.

Perverse logic. Selecting a team captain based on how fans talk on the Internet should get a manager sacked instantly.

Korat

A good option from the bench

Pro. F wrote: »

Perverse logic. Selecting a team captain based on how fans talk on the Internet should get a manager sacked instantly.

Losing games and missing out on the CL is guaranteed to get a manager sacked. Moyes and LVG suffered for putting their faith in Rooney. Hopefully Jose gets rid of Rooney before he costs him his job too.

eagle eye

Korat wrote: »

There should never be a question of having to justify the performances of the team captain to other fans of the same team. The fact that there's any doubt about Rooney's contribution on the pitch means he's not good enough. The captain should be a unifying totem figure for the team not the source of acrimonious bickering among the fans.

What about the three summer signings? Were you happy with Mkhitaryan's performance against City? What about Bailly? What has Pogba done for your team so far?

So you want rid of Rooney but these new guys have done nothing yet and have played worse than he has. Would you not want to start with the worst performances and get rid of them or sort them out before you got to Rooney who has been alright at worst to this point under Mourinho?

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

Korat wrote: »

Losing games and missing out on the CL is guaranteed to get a manager sacked. Moyes and LVG suffered for putting their faith in Rooney. Hopefully Jose gets rid of Rooney before he costs him his job too.

Nonsense. Moyse and LVG suffered for being utterly incompetent for the role they were given, without Rooney they both would have fared a lot worse.

Korat

A good option from the bench

eagle eye wrote: »

Korat wrote: »

There should never be a question of having to justify the performances of the team captain to other fans of the same team. The fact that there's any doubt about Rooney's contribution on the pitch means he's not good enough. The captain should be a unifying totem figure for the team not the source of acrimonious bickering among the fans.

What about the three summer signings? Were you happy with Mkhitaryan's performance against City? What about Bailly? What has Pogba done for your team so far?

So you want rid of Rooney but these new guys have done nothing yet and have played worse than he has. Would you not want to start with the worst performances and get rid of them or sort them out before you got to Rooney who has been alright at worst to this point under Mourinho?

If they're made captain and are as bad as Rooney has been for next two years then they should be replaced too. They've only just arrived so they get the benefit of the doubt for now but Rooney has been in decline for 5 years and not good enough for Utd for the last 3 years let alone be club captain.

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

Korat wrote: »

If they're made captain and are as bad as Rooney has been for next two years then they should be replaced too. They've only just arrived so they get the benefit of the doubt for now but Rooney has been in decline for 5 years and not good enough for Utd for the last 3 years let alone be club captain.

But Rooney hasn't been bad in that time. For the most part he's been fine, and often quite good. People seem to get far too caught up on the captain thing. Look past the captain's armband and Rooney is as good as if not better than most of the players in the current squad.

Korat

A good option from the bench

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

But Rooney hasn't been bad in that time. For the most part he's been fine, and often quite good. People seem to get far too caught up on the captain thing. Look past the captain's armband and Rooney is as good as if not better than most of the players in the current squad.

If he's playing so well why haven't Real Madrid been beating down the door to buy him?

He's fine for a team aiming for the FA Cup and finishing 5th in the league but accepting that as good enough for Utd is the surest way to end up like LFC or worse.

Only the very best should be playing for Utd. Rooney wouldn't get a game for any top side in Europe.

Pro. F

Korat wrote: »

If he's playing so well why haven't Real Madrid been beating down the door to buy him?

Do Real beat the door down of every player who plays well? This is news to me.

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

Korat wrote: »

If he's playing so well why haven't Real Madrid been beating down the door to buy him?

I never said he was playing that well. Why haven't Real Madrid been beating down the door for anyone else in the United squad bar de Gea?

Korat wrote: »

He's fine for a team aiming for the FA Cup and finishing 5th in the league but accepting that as good enough for Utd is the surest way to end up like LFC or worse.

Pretty much the level United are at right now. Are you suggesting the difference between that and United winning a league title is simply the removal of Rooney from the team?

Korat wrote: »

Only the very best should be playing for Utd. Rooney wouldn't get a game for any top side in Europe.

Either would 90% of the current squad.

I think for sensible people, last night, as well as the last 3 years, proves that the problems at United don't simply start and end with Wayne Rooney.

Charizard

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

But Rooney hasn't been bad in that time. For the most part he's been fine, and often quite good. People seem to get far too caught up on the captain thing. Look past the captain's armband and Rooney is as good as if not better than most of the players in the current squad.

He really isnt, Rooney hasnt been one of the top players outside of reputation for a while

Pro. F

Charizard wrote: »

He really isnt, Rooney hasnt been one of the top players outside of reputation for a while

Which of United's attacking players have been better than Rooney so far this season?

Bobby Baccala

A good option from the bench

Pro. F wrote: »

Which of United's attacking players have been better than Rooney so far this season?

Ibrahimovic?

Charizard

Pro. F wrote: »

Which of United's attacking players have been better than Rooney so far this season?

Zlatan by a country mile and then some

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

Charizard wrote: »

Zlatan by a country mile and then some

He's contributed to 4 goals - one of which was a penalty. Rooney has contributed to 3. A country mile between them indeed.

Flint Fredstone

A good option from the bench

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

He's contributed to 4 goals - one of which was a penalty. Rooney has contributed to 3. A country mile between them indeed.

Zlatan has scored 4 goals, not contributed to 4 goals.

Pro. F

Charizard wrote: »

Zlatan by a country mile and then some

Not a chance.

Ibra has scored the goals, which is great. In general play his off the ball movement, passing and creativity hasn't been close to Rooney's.

deaddonkey15

He's not worth keeping around

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

Zlatan has scored 4 goals, not contributed to 4 goals.

And missed a sitter against City.

Flint Fredstone

A good option from the bench

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

And missed a sitter against City.

I've enough of you. It's all whataboutery nonsense. Bye.

Charizard

Pro. F wrote: »

Not a chance.

Ibra has scored the goals, which is great. In general play his off the ball movement, passing and creativity hasn't been close to Rooney's.

Are you for real :pac: Christ thats hilarious tbh.

Pro. F

Charizard wrote: »

Are you for real :pac: Christ thats hilarious tbh.

Honestly, I think it's ridiculous that you could watch the games and not see it yourself.

Charizard

Pro. F wrote: »

Honestly, I think it's ridiculous that you could watch the games and not see it yourself.

I do watch the games, thats what makes this so funny. The only thing I can imagine is you have accidentaly been watching one of those historic games from 4/5 years ago

Pro. F

Charizard wrote: »

I do watch the games, thats what makes this so funny. The only thing I can imagine is you have accidentaly been watching one of those historic games from 4/5 years ago

Ibrahimovic wasn't playing for United 4 or 5 years ago. This season Ibra's passing, creativity and movement have not been near as good as Rooney's.

PhlegmyMoses

Pro. F wrote: »

Ibrahimovic wasn't playing for United 4 or 5 years ago. This season Ibra's passing, creativity and movement have not been near as good as Rooney's.

And it shouldn't really be. He's a 35 year old number 9 playing in his last (maybe second last) season at the top level. As long as he is scoring, he is doing what we want him to do.

Rooney should not be compared with him unless we stick Rooney up front.

Pro. F

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

And it shouldn't really be. He's a 35 year old number 9 playing in his last (maybe second last) season at the top level. As long as he is scoring, he is doing what we want him to do.

Rooney should not be compared with him unless we stick Rooney up front.

Ibra's age and stage in his career are irrelevant to the question of whether or not he has played better than Rooney.

I agree that the two roles (CF and #10) are different, but not so different that we can't compare how well the two have played. Scoring, creating, holding onto possession, providing passing options for the deeper players - those are tasks that the two central attackers share. Ibra has scored more, Rooney has done the rest better. That looks to me like the two of them have been at a very similar level of performance overall, given the relative focus of their roles. But some people want to claim that Ibra has been miles better than Rooney. Not a chance.

Charizard

Pro. F wrote: »

Ibrahimovic wasn't playing for United 4 or 5 years ago. This season Ibra's passing, creativity and movement have not been near as good as Rooney's.

This guy :rolleyes: