Wayne f*cking Rooney

MD1990

Mourinho should have faith in Mkhitaryan & drop Rooney. Rooney is finished just drops short & plays sideways passes offering nothing to the team whatsoever.

Mourinho's treatment of Mkhitaryan has been bizarre. Bit part role only to start him injured vs City. Very strange. As many have thought 4-2-3-1 is killing Pogba. A lot of the problems are Mourinho's fault even though he wants to blame the players. Long may these problems continue. Also shows that Man Utd posters on here claiming rival fans being bittee=r about Mourinho becoming manager was a myth.

Harry Palmr

Anyone see MOTD? Jebus - it's almost as if they are trying to keep him in the side.

Wrongway1985

He's not worth keeping around

Voted he should be the first name on team sheet

StringerBell

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

Voted he should be the first name on team sheet

Wait right there, I believe we can expect a phonecall from the President any minute now

~Rebel~

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Anyone see MOTD? Jebus - it's almost as if they are trying to keep him in the side.

Madness...saying he should be in holding midfield Xabi Alonso passing role...are they just watching a different guy or something?

MisterAnarchy

A good option from the bench

holy guacamole wrote: »

The fact Mourinho has started Rooney in every league game suggests to me he's lost his edge as a manager.

He hasn't been the same manager since his last season at Real Madrid where he lost the dressing room .
His treatment of Casillas was the rod that broke his back ,the dressing room split on him and he became a very bitter man .

He was always a bad loser and a bit bitter but during that final season in Spain he became a raving lunatic isolating himself from almost everyone at the club.
Supposedly according to Marca at the end of his time there only 4 players in the dressing room had any affinity towards him .
A hard core of Casillas,Ramos,Higuain and eventually his own countrymen Pepe and Ronaldo turned on him.

For a manager who perpetrates the notion that his players are devoted to him and will follow him into battle ,his end in Madrid was the exact opposite of that.

Indeed his second season at Chelsea had all the similar hallmarks of his final season in Madrid, a split dressing room ,players not wanting to play for him and Mourinho publicly criticising his players.

His spell at Utd has already been ugly ,he openly criticised certain players after the Man City match and he is already airing his refereeing conspiracies.

He is a broken man ,his spell in Spain has broken him.

LuckyLloyd

Rooney is still only 30, but he looked like he was 35 yesterday and all used up. Very much looked like a player who has played 700+ games at the top level over 15 years. I think Pro F is making an excellent argument at how he hasn't been anywhere near as bad as the lazy hyperbole from disappointed fans would lead you to believe, but he was a net negative on the field yesterday.

To fix it:

- he needs an overhaul fitness wise. There is a warrior in there but he looked heavy legged yesterday and not in the shape required
- he needs to have his role better defined. He's everything and nothing right now, all over the pitch floating about without delivering anything of concrete value

I accept that no.10s can pop up around the pitch, and I'd also suggest that defensively Rooney's heat map is symptomatic of effort and desire. But for me he needs a much more focussed and locked in role that can allow his ability to shine through.

What's holding these things back from happening is beyond me. Mourinho should be the manager to identify the above and make it happen...

Korat

A good option from the bench

For Rashford's goal Rooney is as close as Rashford as the ball breaks but he has his hands up claiming a penalty rather than trying to get the ball or be ready for a rebound.

That's the bloody captain, no wonder they were all over the place when that's the kind of leadership on show.

I'm really beginning to think he's negatively influencing the performance of his team mates not just being piss poor himself.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

"Lazy hyperbole'

Very patronising remark right there. It's also just as easy and lazy to use the various excuses thrown about to defend him.

Rooney has been very very poor and on a downward spiral for some time. Some or most of it is down to him, not fitness\positioning\tactics etc

whiskeyman

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Anyone see MOTD? Jebus - it's almost as if they are trying to keep him in the side.

I honestly didn't even think he was playing from watching the highlights!

Pro. F

Korat wrote: »

For Rashford's goal Rooney is as close as Rashford as the ball breaks but he has his hands up claiming a penalty rather than trying to get the ball or be ready for a rebound.

That's the bloody captain, no wonder they were all over the place when that's the kind of leadership on show.

I'm really beginning to think he's negatively influencing the performance of his team mates not just being piss poor himself.

Not true. Rooney was five yards further away from the ball and Rashford was directly between him and the ball when he put is hands up.

Korat

A good option from the bench

Pro. F wrote: »

Korat wrote: »

For Rashford's goal Rooney is as close as Rashford as the ball breaks but he has his hands up claiming a penalty rather than trying to get the ball or be ready for a rebound.

That's the bloody captain, no wonder they were all over the place when that's the kind of leadership on show.

I'm really beginning to think he's negatively influencing the performance of his team mates not just being piss poor himself.

Not true. Rooney was five yards further away from the ball and Rashford was directly between him and the ball when he put is hands up.

Take off your Rooneyisthebestestintheworld glasses for a second and watch the video of the goal on Youtube. He's NOT 5 yards away, do you even know the measurements of the penalty area?

As usual Rooney is on his heels throwing his arms appealing for a peno. Unacceptable from the team captain. He should be focusing on where the ball is going.

If the keeper gets a hand to it and bats in his direction he misses a sitter because he's not ready for the ball. He's always at it these days, he's throwing his arms waving at the ref or linesman while the ball is going back down the field and Utd are effectively a man down while he has his hissy fit.

It's not winning us any penalties either so you wonder about his decision making if he can't see his behaviour is counter-productive.

Duck Soup

Jim White in the Telegraph absolutely hammering into Rooney today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/09/19/manchester-united-captain-wayne-rooney-is-just-no-longer-good-en/

Pro. F

Korat wrote: »

Take off your Rooneyisthebestestintheworld glasses for a second and watch the video of the goal on Youtube. He's NOT 5 yards away, do you even know the measurements of the penalty area?

As usual Rooney is on his heels throwing his arms appealing for a peno. Unacceptable from the team captain. He should be focusing on where the ball is going.

If the keeper gets a hand to it and bats in his direction he misses a sitter because he's not ready for the ball. He's always at it these days, he's throwing his arms waving at the ref or linesman while the ball is going back down the field and Utd are effectively a man down while he has his hissy fit.

It's not winning us any penalties either so you wonder about his decision making if he can't see his behaviour is counter-productive.

The penalty area is 18 yards out from the posts and 18 yards deep. They are in the area called the six yard box (that gives a hint about its dimsnsions). There is six yards between the post and the edge of the six yard box. Rooney is about a yard in from the edge of the six yard box, the ball is about in line with the post when he starts putting his hands up.

Rashford has the ball right in front of him. When Rooney has his two hands up he is facing Rashford and the ball as Rashford is in the process of taking the shot. Rooney is leaning forward. Your description of events is a fabrication.

jive

Whatever about defending Rooney's performances, he's clearly not the best option United have in that position. I don't know why England and United persist in trying to make him work as some kind of playmaker because it ain't happening. Stats can be thrown out left, right and centre but at the end of it all it comes down to results. He's in the United 11 based on reputation and should be dropped based on current form.

Harry Palmr

whiskeyman wrote: »

I honestly didn't even think he was playing from watching the highlights!

I'm open to correction but I don't think he was mentioned once in the highlights commentary

Leroy42

Pro. F wrote: »

The penalty area is 18 yards out from the posts and 18 yards deep. They are in the area called the six yard box (that gives a hint about its dimsnsions). There is six yards between the post and the edge of the six yard box. Rooney is about a yard in from the edge of the six yard box, the ball is about in line with the post when he starts putting his hands up.

Rashford has the ball right in front of him. When Rooney has his two hands up he is facing Rashford and the ball as Rashford is in the process of taking the shot. Rooney is leaning forward. Your description of events is a fabrication.

All that may well be true, but it used to be that Rooney was where Rashford was. That is the problem. Other players have overtaken him and he is left in a supporting role, one he doesn't seem to be able to do convincingly and certainly not consistently.

you seem, Pro F, to be intent in arguing over every minute detail on anyones point. I get it that you think that many of the arguments put forward are grossly overly simplistic and based on headlines rather than facts. I don't disagree with you on that.

However, I do think that your desire to ensure that only fully fact checked discussions are allowed is blinding you to the, IMO, clear evidence in front of your eyes. This is not the Rooney of 5 years ago. He is adding very little positive to the team and it is almost as if any positive he does do is used to negate any of the negative comments, when in should be that the top player in Utd there simply is not room for such a consistent stream of negatives.

There was a video posted of a number of errors made by Rooney yesterday, misplaced pass straight out of play, crosses sent straight to row Z etc and on their own each is forgivable, but all in one game and no positives? No stand out piece of play?

Pro. F

jive wrote: »

Whatever about defending Rooney's performances, he's clearly not the best option United have in that position. I don't know why England and United persist in trying to make him work as some kind of playmaker because it ain't happening. Stats can be thrown out left, right and centre but at the end of it all it comes down to results. He's in the United 11 based on reputation and should be dropped based on current form.

The majority of the current starting 11 should be dropped based on current form. I agree that he should have been subbed in the second half (in which he tanked), but, up to and including the first half, he has been one of our best players so far this season.

Leroy42

Pro. F wrote: »

The majority of the current starting 11 should be dropped based on current form. I agree that he should have been subbed in the second half (in which he tanked), but, up to and including the first half, he has been one of our best players so far this season.

Yes, but is that good enough? Best in a bad team is not good enough and since he is the captain and star player then surely he should be doing more that just enough

(I would argue that he hasn't been the best but has had some good moments which you are using to sway your opinion. Clearly those moments have been very important but that doesn't make him the best player)

Pro. F

Leroy42 wrote: »

All that may well be true, but it used to be that Rooney was where Rashford was. That is the problem. Other players have overtaken him and he is left in a supporting role, one he doesn't seem to be able to do convincingly and certainly not consistently.

I'm pretty sure that even at his highest peak there were goals scored where Rooney was a few hards behind the goal scorer. Rashford scoring with Rooney being a few yards behind him, facing the ball, with his hands in the air is not a remotely sensible reason for criticising Rooney.

Leroy42 wrote: »

you seem, Pro F, to be intent in arguing over every minute detail on anyones point. I get it that you think that many of the arguments put forward are grossly overly simplistic and based on headlines rather than facts. I don't disagree with you on that.

However, I do think that your desire to ensure that only fully fact checked discussions are allowed is blinding you to the, IMO, clear evidence in front of your eyes.

Listen, there is nothing wrong with pointing out when someone is saying something blatantly untrue in relation to a discussion you are taking part in. You can call that arguing over every minute detail, but that is simply not true.

Leroy42 wrote: »

This is not the Rooney of 5 years ago. He is adding very little positive to the team and it is almost as if any positive he does do is used to negate any of the negative comments, when in should be that the top player in Utd there simply is not room for such a consistent stream of negatives.

There was a video posted of a number of errors made by Rooney yesterday, misplaced pass straight out of play, crosses sent straight to row Z etc and on their own each is forgivable, but all in one game and no positives? No stand out piece of play?

You could make a similar video with the majority of outfield players yesterday.

Shane St.

A good option from the bench

Is Rooney the root of all Utd's problems? No, clearly these issues run much deeper
But if they are to have any success this season dropping Rooney and playing key players in their best positions is clearly a start. It won't be an instant fix but playing a team without Rooney for 4 r 5 games will start to gel and you will see a much better team with quicker transitions.
Big calls for Mourinho to make!

Pro. F

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes, but is that good enough? Best in a bad team is not good enough and since he is the captain and star player then surely he should be doing more that just enough

(I would argue that he hasn't been the best but has had some good moments which you are using to sway your opinion. Clearly those moments have been very important but that doesn't make him the best player)

No, it's not good enough. He needs to improve. So does the rest of the team. He is not the star player, any more than Ibra or Pogba are. And he has been playing just as well as them.

I didn't say he was the best player. I said "one of our best players." That is quite different.

And as for his good moments overly influencing my opinion, I would say that his bad moments have overly influenced yours.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

Pro. F wrote: »

You could make a similar video with the majority of outfield players yesterday.

As average\poor as others were you most certainly could not make a smilar video. This is simply not true.

Leroy42

Pro. F wrote: »

You could make a similar video with the majority of outfield players yesterday.

Yes, but his is a discussion about Rooney. They might all have been as bad but that is not what is being discussed.

Rooney was shocking yesterday, you don't need a compliation video to tell you that.

He has been poor all season, poor in the Euros and poor last year. Are others worse, well I would say no, but that is just IMO, and I am quite happy that I could be wrong in that.

But his position in the team, ie that of a creative player, means that his failure to play to a standard blunts the entire team.

So the 1st question to ask is if Rooney is playing well enough? I don't think anybody would argue that he is.
Follows then what should be done about it. Either continue to let him play in the hope he refinds form, but given that his form is now missing for such a prolonged period it would seem overly hopeful to think that he himself and get out of it,
or drop him for someone else. The second option is only an option if one thinks that their are better options available. Given how poor I think he has been playing, I cannot see that any of the other options would be worse. They may very well not be any better though. I can't know that. But we know what we are going to get with Rooney, why not take the chance on someone else.

Leroy42

Pro. F wrote: »

No, it's not good enough. He needs to improve. So does the rest of the team. He is not the star player, any more than Ibra or Pogba are. And he has been playing just as well as them.

I didn't say he was the best player. I said "one of our best players." That is quite different.

And as for his good moments overly influencing my opinion, I would say that his bad moments have overly influenced yours.

Again, you are picking up on the smallest thing rather than comfort the issue. you are quite right you never said best, you said one of the best. I should have been more precise in my language and using best rather than one of the best was incorrect.

But let me correct it and discuss it then. Being one of the best in a bad team is not good enough and since he is the captain and star player then surely he should be doing more that just enough.

He is the captain, the highest paid player and has demanded in recent years to be the star player. You can't simply ignore that. It is by the very standards that he set himself that he is being judged.

The bad moments are not overinfluecing me. I simply do not accept that a top player playing for a top team should be so poor. Unable to consistently pass, not creating any chances, skimming crosses into row Z, losing his head at the ref. That is not acceptable.

Pro. F

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes, but his is a discussion about Rooney. They might all have been as bad but that is not what is being discussed.

Having a discussion without proper context will lead you to draw wrong conclusions.

Leroy42 wrote: »

He has been poor all season

No he hasn't.

Leroy42 wrote: »

But his position in the team, ie that of a creative player, means that his failure to play to a standard blunts the entire team.

The entire team are blunted because the entire team aren't playing well enough. They aren't organised well enough, fit enough and there have been problem performances (on the wing) that have been much more detrimental than Rooney's, Ibra's or Pogba's.

Note: if he were to keep playing like he did in the second half, then I would be in agreement with you.

Pro. F

Leroy42 wrote: »

Again, you are picking up on the smallest thing rather than comfort the issue. you are quite right you never said best, you said one of the best. I should have been more precise in my language and using best rather than one of the best was incorrect.

But let me correct it and discuss it then. Being one of the best in a bad team is not good enough and since he is the captain and star player then surely he should be doing more that just enough.

He is the captain, the highest paid player and has demanded in recent years to be the star player. You can't simply ignore that. It is by the very standards that he set himself that he is being judged.

The bad moments are not overinfluecing me. I simply do not accept that a top player playing for a top team should be so poor. Unable to consistently pass, not creating any chances, skimming crosses into row Z, losing his head at the ref. That is not acceptable.

Any single thing that I disagree with you on you will say is just me focusing on the details and missing the big picture. So until you drop that line of argument I'm not going to discuss it with you any more. It's not like I haven't already addressed all the points you are making when others have raised them.

jive

Pro. F wrote: »

The majority of the current starting 11 should be dropped based on current form. I agree that he should have been subbed in the second half (in which he tanked), but, up to and including the first half, he has been one of our best players so far this season.

Yeh but the difference is United have a boat load of players capable of playing in Rooneys position. CBs have no competition and neither does Shaw really. Valencia has been good. Pogba will always start. Then you've a few players who could takeover from Fellaini but Mourinho likes a brute of a DM and he fits the bill. Ibra has been decent enough and taken his chances for the most part.

Then you've 3 positions left with Rooney, Mata, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Depay, Young and probably Herrera who could all be interchangeable to a degree. Mkhitaryan hasn't really been given a chance other than the Derby where United were overrun, same for Lingard. Surely Mata as #10 and Mkhitaryan on the wing would offer a lot more to the team than what Rooney currently is?

Flint Fredstone

A good option from the bench

Leroy42 wrote: »

Again, you are picking up on the smallest thing rather than comfort the issue. you are quite right you never said best, you said one of the best. I should have been more precise in my language and using best rather than one of the best was incorrect.

But let me correct it and discuss it then. Being one of the best in a bad team is not good enough and since he is the captain and star player then surely he should be doing more that just enough.

He is the captain, the highest paid player and has demanded in recent years to be the star player. You can't simply ignore that. It is by the very standards that he set himself that he is being judged.

The bad moments are not overinfluecing me. I simply do not accept that a top player playing for a top team should be so poor. Unable to consistently pass, not creating any chances, skimming crosses into row Z, losing his head at the ref. That is not acceptable.

This is it in a nutshell. All this "but what about Martial" or "Mkhitaryan and Lingard were worse" is totally irrelevant.

This is the same player that questioned United's ambition in the transfer market, threatening to leave in the process. Now the tables have turned and it's him that's not good enough for the club.

Pro. F

Flint Fredstone wrote: »

This is it in a nutshell. All this "but what about Martial" or "Mkhitaryan and Lingard were worse" is totally irrelevant.

Indeed, that would be irrelevant, if that's all that was being said. But the fact that, other than the second half yesterday, he has been as good as Pogba and Ibra is most certainly relevant.

Pro. F

jive wrote: »

Yeh but the difference is United have a boat load of players capable of playing in Rooneys position. CBs have no competition and neither does Shaw really. Valencia has been good. Pogba will always start. Then you've a few players who could takeover from Fellaini but Mourinho likes a brute of a DM and he fits the bill. Ibra has been decent enough and taken his chances for the most part.

Then you've 3 positions left with Rooney, Mata, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Depay, Young and probably Herrera who could all be interchangeable to a degree. Mkhitaryan hasn't really been given a chance other than the Derby where United were overrun, same for Lingard. Surely Mata as #10 and Mkhitaryan on the wing would offer a lot more to the team than what Rooney currently is?

I doubt it. Hopefull Mata gets a run there now and we'll see.

Leroy42

Pro. F wrote: »

Any single thing that I disagree with you on you will say is just me focusing on the details and missing the big picture. So until you drop that line of argument I'm not going to discuss it with you any more. It's not like I haven't already addressed all the points you are making when others have raised them.

Ok, although you seem very happy to argue to the nth degree about anything anybody else says but lets leave it there and get back to the point.

Pick one of each of these.

Zlatan or Rooney
Zlatan has 5 goals already, and whilst I do not think he is actually playing great, he is doing the job asked of him.
Rashford or Rooney. On this form I would have Rashford as 1st name on the teamsheet. Depending on the formation, you might drop him for Zlatan if only 1 up top.
Mata/MickyR or Rooney. Tricky one this. MickyR has shown nothing and I am not in the Mata love brigade camp. However, I would still go with one of them as that is their actual position rather than trying to reclass Rooney from a striker to a N0. 10.

You may, and have, argued that the system and those around him are not helping. But was the system and other players that made him play so poorly for England in the Euros as well? Even if that is taken as being true, then the only answer is to change the system or the players. So who would you change. Drop Zlatan?, Rashford? Pagba? What about DDG, or Bailly. Or is is Felliani's fault. Or maybe its all of them.

Of only Shaw was back to his best Rooney would be able to cross the ball within 5 yards of a Utd playing rather than shinning it into Row Z.

And its not just yesterdays game. He has been poor all season. Bad control of the ball, slow, poor corners. It was just in the other game prior to Watford that he manged to do one or tow things right that changed the conversation away from the poor display to his contribution to the goal. All that changed against Watford is that there was no moment so their is nothing to distract from the general poor play.

Cantona's Collars

https://twitter.com/samuelluckhurst/status/777809249426636800

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/football/premier-league/2015-2016/99-of-manchester-united-fans-want-wayne-rooney-dropped-do-you_sto5859298/story.shtml
" An overwhelming 99.08 per cent of Manchester United supporters on the RedIssue Sanctuary believe Wayne Rooney should be dropped by Jose Mourinho. In a poll titled: 'How do you solve a problem like Wayne Rooney?', a measly 0.92 per cent suggested Mourinho perseveres with the United captain, who performed wretchedly once again in the defeat at Watford."

theteal

A good option from the bench

Just heard on SSN that Rooney gave the ball away 17 times yesterday - that's criminal.

Anyway he's been finished for a long time, United will be better off when they finally make the decision to "rest" him

Pro. F

Leroy42 wrote: »

Ok, although you seem very happy to argue to the nth degree about anything anybody else says but lets leave it there and get back to the point.

Even when I don't dispute your points you are complaining about me arguing too much. If you want me to debate the topic with you then stop complaining about me debating the topic.

Leroy42 wrote: »

Pick one of each of these.

Zlatan or Rooney
Zlatan has 5 goals already, and whilst I do not think he is actually playing great, he is doing the job asked of him.
Rashford or Rooney. On this form I would have Rashford as 1st name on the teamsheet. Depending on the formation, you might drop him for Zlatan if only 1 up top.
Mata/MickyR or Rooney. Tricky one this. MickyR has shown nothing and I am not in the Mata love brigade camp. However, I would still go with one of them as that is their actual position rather than trying to reclass Rooney from a striker to a N0. 10.

Zlatan over Rooney at CF. Rooney over Zlatan at #10. Zlatan doesn't move about much, he is a very skilful and strong lump. Good for CF, but I don't fancy that at 10 in this system. If you want to count up goals then Zlatan has 3 non-penalty goals (4 total) and 0 assists. Rooney has 1 non-penalty goal and 2 assists.

On current form I would have Rashford over Rooney at CF and Rooney over Rashford at #10. Rashford is needed on the wing and has shown an aptitude for it, so I would play him there.

Neither Mata nor Miki have yet shown themselves to be better than Rooney at #10 in this system. They still deserve minutes there to see what they can do, I am presuming they will get them. Miki is currently injured. Rooney isn't being reclassified as a #10, he has played there a lot throughout his career.

Leroy42 wrote: »

You may, and have, argued that the system and those around him are not helping. But was the system and other players that made him play so poorly for England in the Euros as well? Even if that is taken as being true, then the only answer is to change the system or the players. So who would you change. Drop Zlatan?, Rashford? Pagba? What about DDG, or Bailly. Or is is Felliani's fault. Or maybe its all of them.

Of only Shaw was back to his best Rooney would be able to cross the ball within 5 yards of a Utd playing rather than shinning it into Row Z.

I haven't argued that the system isn't helping Rooney in particular. I have argued that the lack of organisation and fitness has inhibited the whole team. There is no need to change the system. Pogba, Zlatan and Ibra don't need to be dropped to play Rooney. That is three players out of six positions on the pitch.

Rooney played relatively well in the Euros until he tanked in the first half against Iceland. He was far from the only one to tank in that tournament, and unsurprisingly, Hodgeson fùcked up England's chances by not making the right subs.

Pro. F

theteal wrote: »

Just heard on SSN that Rooney gave the ball away 17 times yesterday - that's criminal.

It really is not. If you swallow these things that are put forward without context from Sky then they will mislead you.

Billy86

If giving away possession once every 5 minutes while adding nothing creative isn't criminal, what is it?

Leroy42

Pro. F wrote: »

It really is not. If you swallow these things that are put forward without context from Sky then they will mislead you.

What context can justify that? What context is there for skimming the ball into Row Z when in space to make a cross. What context is there for passing the ball straight out of play?

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

Pro. F wrote: »

It really is not. If you swallow these things that are put forward without context from Sky then they will mislead you.

It really is.


IT REALLY IS

Pro. F

Billy86 wrote: »

If giving away possession once every 5 minutes while adding nothing creative isn't criminal, what is it?

He created two chances, so it's not true that he added nothing creatively. On passes alone Pogba gave the ball away 15 times (so, once every 6 minutes). Was that criminal? No it wasn't, because this total possession loss number is not particularly big.

Pro. F

Leroy42 wrote: »

What context can justify that? What context is there for skimming the ball into Row Z when in space to make a cross. What context is there for passing the ball straight out of play?

How about the context of typical total possession losses or rates for #10s in teams with similar overall possession? That would seem like some basic context that you should use to look at a stat before decideding whether it's good or bad.

Ah no, sure don't worry about that. Sky posted a stat, it must be significant.

Billy86

Pro. F wrote: »

He created two chances, so it's not true that he added nothing creatively. On passes alone Pogba gave the ball away 15 times (so, once every 6 minutes). Was that criminal? No it wasn't, because this total possession loss number is not particularly big.

Why is it not particularly big of a deal to be constantly giving away possession while creating just two chances in the entire game?

Pro. F

Billy86 wrote: »

Why is it not particularly big of a deal to be constantly giving away possession while creating just two chances in the entire game?

Because it is very common for all #10s or attacking players to do it - unless they are playing on tiki-taka teams - at a similar rate. Rooney was crossing the ball a lot, which will bring the number of total dispossessions up. Pogba only attempted one cross and, even so, he gave the ball away 16 times (to Rooney's 17). Was that criminal from Pogba? No it wasn't, because he was getting forward and trying things, so it's to be expected.

rob316

Does Pro. F work for Rooney's PR department or something?

your defence of him and absolute refusal to admit he's a big problem at United is astonishing.

crkball6

rob316 wrote: »

Does Pro. F work for Rooney's PR department or something?

your defence of him and absolute refusal to admit he's a big problem at United is astonishing.

It should be easy for you to come up with the evidence to refute Pro. F's claims then. To be fair to Pro. F. He's backing up everything he says while others are just saying "ronney's sh|te"

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

crkball6 wrote: »

It should be easy for you to come up with the evidence to refute Pro. F's claims then. To be fair to Pro. F. He's backing up everything he says while others are just saying "ronney's sh|te"

Not true. There's stats, video evidence, comments galore against Rooney.

Out of interest, what would you have given Rooney out of 10 the last 3 or 4 games? Personally I think in one of them he deserved a 7, the rest were 5s and 4s

crkball6

Nalz wrote: »

Not true. There's stats, video evidence, comments galore against Rooney.

Out of interest, what would you have given Rooney out of 10 the last 3 or 4 games? Personally I think in one of them he deserved a 7, the rest were 5s and 4s

Video evidence of what?

An over hit pass?

A pass where Valencia should have been further up the pitch to collect?

A ballooned cross?

He's like the first footballer to ever over hit a cross. shocking. Absolutely shocking.

Nalz

He's not worth keeping around

crkball6 wrote: »

Video evidence of what?

An over hit pass?

A pass where Valencia should have been further up the pitch to collect?

A ballooned cross?

He's like the first footballer to ever over hit a cross. shocking. Absolutely shocking.

There's a 3 minute video of him doing the rounds showing him making about 8 or 9 really bad blunders... how long you think the video would be of him making up for that in the game? I.e. making a cut through pass or successfully dribbling a ball? How about taking a decent corner or having a shot on target?

crkball6

Nalz wrote: »

There's a 3 minute video of him doing the rounds showing him making about 8 or 9 really bad blunders... how long you think the video would be of him making up for that in the game? I.e. making a cut through pass or successfully dribbling a ball? How about taking a decent corner or having a shot on target?

Exactly most of that video is horse.

The pass out to the right Valencia should have been pushed up there.

Where he controls was a pretty badly weighted pass from Shaw.

Then he gets caught out on the ball from a hospital pass and no one gave him a shout. You could go through almost any 90 minute game of most premier league games from any season and pick it apart like this for any player in a similar role.

No one is blindly defending him, the whole team are below par right now there's very few players who are playing well it's rife throughout the team.

You could take pogba/ibra/valencia/smalling/rooney/rashford/eric/shaw/martial who didn't play well and or made mistakes. Why people are obsessed with bashing rooney is beyond me there's a whole team of players who are not playing up to the required levels and in general you're only as good as the players playing around you and they're pretty much all off form right now.

Utopia Parkway

Back at Everton next season?

Although not sure Koeman would be all that interested in him but the club might see the value in bringing him back to finish his career there.