Eflow fines - Sheriff took car.

Seth Brundle

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

The first line of the OP's post was "I'm just looking to get some helpful advice"

Everyone saying they've no sympathy, deserved what she got etc is NOT helpful, nor is it advice.

None of us know this person's full situation or what went through her head and yes of course she screwed up but it's done.
She's probably in a heap over this and just needs a way to fix it and move on with her life.

OP, I would not be in the least bit used to situations like this but if it was me I would contact a good solicitor and go from there.

...

I really don't understand why people have to be so critical and rude on here when someone seeks help.

I was the first to reply and I suggested getting legal advice quickly.

However, it shoukd also be pointed out that this person still doesn't want to pay and still doesn't appear to think it's their fault...
"How can she fight her case and get her car back without paying the sheriff? Remembering of course that all calls are recorded and that she offered to pay the tolls without fees as it was eflows errors that led to her cancelling her account."

CalamariFritti

flatty wrote: »

If I may add something on eflow's behalf, I have had problems with billing before on the m50 when home from England on holiday. Forgot to pay initially, but rang them, and no problems at all. My bro racked up about six journeys when loaned him my car. I had no idea, but when I went to add the car, which was new to me, into the account they drew it to my attention. They waived the fine and just debited the correct amount. I have never found them anything other than flexible and pleasant to deal with, and would look on them as gold standard in customer care.

If we leave aside the fact that the whole m50 toll bridge is an unbelievable scam on the back of the tax payers and road users to begin with.
They're laughing all the way to the bank, shall we give them a medal for being 'flexible' about their daylight robbery scheme?

JayRoc

Leaving everything else aside....what kind of business would run up 6k costs chasing a 24 euro debt? We'd all go under if we did that.

No ifs, no buts...if a 24 quid ticket can end up with your jamjar being seized then something is totally, completely and utterly wrong with the system that allowed it.

Losty Dublin

JayRoc wrote: »

Leaving everything else aside....what kind of business would run up 6k costs chasing a 24 euro debt? We'd all go under if we did that.

No ifs, no buts...if a 24 quid ticket can end up with your jamjar being seized then something is totally, completely and utterly wrong with the system that allowed it.

All things equal but the debts stopped being €24 a long long time ago.

wonski

JayRoc wrote: »

Leaving everything else aside....what kind of business would run up 6k costs chasing a 24 euro debt? We'd all go under if we did that.

No ifs, no buts...if a 24 quid ticket can end up with your jamjar being seized then something is totally, completely and utterly wrong with the system that allowed it.

Let's go back to barriers on m50.

You don't pay, you don't go.

That would do. No ifs, no buts....

magicbastarder

Losty Dublin wrote: »

All things equal but the debts stopped being €24 a long long time ago.

you have to wonder about the efficiencies of your debt reclamation process if it increases the original debt by a factor of 10,000%.
i would be interested to hear how many other lines of business would be able to reclaim debt, plus the cost of reclaiming it, with such a markup?

Stheno

magicbastarder wrote: »

you have to wonder about the efficiencies of your debt reclamation process if it increases the original debt by a factor of 10,000%.
i would be interested to hear how many other lines of business would be able to reclaim debt, plus the cost of reclaiming it, with such a markup?

There is a system of increased penalties laid out if you don't pay the original fine
First it doubles then it goes to forty odd Euro then 140 odd and eventually up to over 400

fox0512

"posts like this will never end" indeed, however, there is a lot to be learned by them....Under no circumstances should a Sheriff be involved at this stage unless a serious of court cases has taken place... To get to this point it could take 2/3 years in some cases....

I have had a few run ins with e flow and ive never payed them one cent because I know how to handle such a money grabbing scheme but many do not...very quickly a small fine can get out of hand and again for many they have to or choose to ignore.... Its hard to believe nowadays how legal letters still seem to scare people into paying what they cant afford, ok, bills need to be payed but you can only pay what you can afford and every court in the land will work in your favor..

percy212

Seems extortionate and needs regulation. I hope the OP's friend can find a good solicitor to deal with this malarkey.

Stheno wrote: »

There is a system of increased penalties laid out if you don't pay the original fine
First it doubles then it goes to forty odd Euro then 140 odd and eventually up to over 400

Stheno

percy212 wrote: »

Seems extortionate and needs regulation. I hope the OP's friend can find a good solicitor to deal with this malarkey.

Iys mandated AFAIK by the NRA

Kings Inns or bust

Hank Flaky Nurse wrote: »

So her stance with eflow and the solicitors was that she would not be paying the extra charges and will happily go to court and fight her case.

She clearly didn't.

magicbastarder

it may be mandated by the NRA, so let's keep it in the sphere of transport. i was once hit with the standard fare on the luas (was using the ticket as a bookmark, not a good idea with a luas ticket).
my €2.75 ticket (which handily, is commensurate with the cost of crossing the M50) immediately jumped to i think €45; which i paid up, fair cop.
however, if i hadn't paid it (from railusers.ie):
"Failure to pay the fixed penalty notice within 21 days will result in a court summons being issued. Maximum penalty before the courts is €1000 and/or up to 3 months in jail. Irish Rail and Transdev (Luas) have consistently obtained a 80%+ conviction rate in these cases."

the question is, can non-payment of this fine be referred to a debt collection agency?

Kings Inns or bust

magicbastarder wrote: »

it may be mandated by the NRA, so let's keep it in the sphere of transport. i was once hit with the standard fare on the luas (was using the ticket as a bookmark, not a good idea with a luas ticket).
my €2.75 ticket (which handily, is commensurate with the cost of crossing the M50) immediately jumped to i think €45; which i paid up, fair cop.
however, if i hadn't paid it (from railusers.ie):
"Failure to pay the fixed penalty notice within 21 days will result in a court summons being issued. Maximum penalty before the courts is €1000 and/or up to 3 months in jail. Irish Rail and Transdev (Luas) have consistently obtained a 80%+ conviction rate in these cases."

the question is, can non-payment of this fine be referred to a debt collection agency?

No you go to prison in default, usually for about 3 hours. If you ask nicely you'll get a cuppa.

Sheriff = Civil Recovery (No criminal record)
Non payment of fine = prison in default.

Note a fine is a criminal sanction and will result in a criminal record.

fox0512

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

She clearly didn't.

the system can be beat but you have to go about it the right way...as you said she clearly didnt..

Outside court one can mouth off but inside if your the victim or not you play it..

How to beat an e flow bill...make sure their court bills out-way the costs they are trying to recover.

JayRoc

fox0512 wrote: »

How to beat an e flow bill...make sure their court bills out-way the costs they are trying to recover.

My point was, this is not the case. If it were,they wouldn't go to court over 24 quid. Like any normal company.

Losty Dublin

magicbastarder wrote: »

you have to wonder about the efficiencies of your debt reclamation process if it increases the original debt by a factor of 10,000%.
i would be interested to hear how many other lines of business would be able to reclaim debt, plus the cost of reclaiming it, with such a markup?

OP's friend had her chances to deal with the matter long before it got to the point where the debt increased to such a level and to the stage where her car ended up being seized. It certainly wasn't a first option for such an action to settle the matter.

Newman35

Look, I understand your pain, our friends here in boards and I, none of us have a clear picture of what happened between your friend and eflow the last few months, so all we can do is assume and give you advice based on them assumptions. Based on what you said I will support you and go along with you believing eflow overcharged you, on the other hand, I would also say that you have not taken the right decision at the right time which may have lead to this.

What I would like to say is it's not the time to sit and worry, it's hard to see a new car go, I can imagine that your friend struggled to get one eventually, it's mentally stressful to spend each and every minute thinking what’s going to happen. All you have to do is stop worrying get up and face it. It's not end of the world! , its time to fight your case, look for a solicitor, if money is an issue , look for a solicitor who offers ‘No Win No Fee option’ if you have a solid case they will go along with you, else go for free legal aid. But from now on do not ignore the court or eflow. Don’t make the court or eflow dictate what you did wrong on basis of the facts submitted by eflow, and not considering the fact that why you did wrong? There has to be a reason what made your friend to ignore eflow, was she mentally harassed by eflow because eflow was frequently sending threatening reminders? Or are there any other reasons? You friend has to go to the beginning where it all started and bring up evidence to support her claim, There certainly has to be some point of truth on your side too, you have your version of what made your friend end up into this situation and the court has to address that. I am not saying you will win the case, you may get your car back or the judgement issued against your friend may not be that hard as you may expect if you have strong reasons to support your claims.

One thing I would like to say to all here reading this, am not happy with the government imposing tolls on roads and I am sure the majority of us agree with me, Road and Water must be available for anybody to use with no charges. There are people and families out there struggling to afford basic food and shelter and the govt is going on imposing charges on what they can find because we people are quiet??? Seriously, people who can afford can use a road and who can’t cannot can f off??? This is what the govt literally say isn’t it?? This bureaucracy has to stop. Just like the way we stand beside each other fighting for water we all should stand up together to fight such unfair things the govt is doing to us all. Imagine if there were no expensive tolls on the roads, our friend’s friend here who is a mother of two would never be in this situation the first place, and none of our friends who are suffering out there will be in such situation either.

All I ask everyone here is that our friend here is in a situation and he is looking for help and support, If people do not have anything to offer please do not post comments that would drag these couples down. Equally, I am grateful to them people who are legitly supporting.

fox0512

Losty Dublin wrote: »

OP's friend had her chances to deal with the matter long before it got to the point where the debt increased to such a level and to the stage where her car ended up being seized. It certainly wasn't a first option for such an action to settle the matter.

E flow can do what they like it seems in terms of mark up tho...im sure she had many easier options along the way...you can ignore it only to a point..

I remember going to dub soon after the visual toll vanished into thin air with my 2eur on the seat beside me thinking WTF is the toll gone!...When i contacted e flow they said "the new arrangement was advertise on rte ect...what a joke!...:pac::pac: we are no longer a nation of 2 channels my friend...this should be fun in court...by this time the bill was 600 ish...never heard a word after...

fox0512

If she is clever and OP is listening she will enter talks on a revised settlement... if agreed the car comes back...she can still come out the other side a lot lower than 6k... Not sure the "unhelpful comments" are just that but just blunt facts, she needs a good solicitor not a mickey mouse one to get the ball rolling..the ball is in her court in more ways than one...If this car is financed then it is not her legal property until payed for in full...so for starters the sheriff took a car thats not hers....theres so many ways to beat these gobsh@tes at their own game...

Newman35

fox0512 wrote: »

If she is clever and OP is listening she will enter talks on a revised settlement... if agreed the car comes back...she can still come out the other side a lot lower than 6k... ...

I totally agree with what you said, she definitely needs a good solicitor, its an interesting case for a smart solicitor, and the ball is definitely in her court in more ways as you said, have a good feeling bout it you know.

fox0512

well look,some would consider the car being taken as a point of no return but all it is- is a bargaining chip...the sheriff is just a repo man in many respects, its not his prize or he doesnt make money on it...if car is financed by bank and not credit union etc then it is not a private loan (I stand corrected) it is, if bank loan the property of until payed for like a mortgage....if finance through dealer then the sheriff has taken the finance company's car or at least thats what they say on the fine print

peteb2

fox0512 wrote:

I remember going to dub soon after the visual toll vanished into thin air with my 2eur on the seat beside me thinking WTF is the toll gone!...When i contacted e flow they said "the new arrangement was advertise on rte ect...what a joke!... we are no longer a nation of 2 channels my friend...this should be fun in court...by this time the bill was 600 ish...never heard a word after...

You're kidding right? There was and still is big signs around it telling you to contact them and pay the toll!

savagethegoat

fox0512 wrote: »

E flow can do what they like it seems in terms of mark up tho...im sure she had many easier options along the way...you can ignore it only to a point..

I remember going to dub soon after the visual toll vanished into thin air with my 2eur on the seat beside me thinking WTF is the toll gone!...When i contacted e flow they said "the new arrangement was advertise on rte ect...what a joke!...:pac::pac: we are no longer a nation of 2 channels my friend...this should be fun in court...by this time the bill was 600 ish...never heard a word after...

I expect they took one look at your car and decided it wasn't worth the €600 :cool:

RossieMan

Can someone ban this fella already? He's talking out of his arse and offering advise to avoid payment.

fox0512

peteb2 wrote: »

You're kidding right? There was and still is big signs around it telling you to contact them and pay the toll!

That particular day way back a lot of driving had been done, heavy traffic,tired eyes etc...I just got caught out as many others did...

fox0512

RossieMan wrote: »

Can someone ban this fella already? He's talking out of his arse and offering advise to avoid payment.

Only an idiot would enter into talks to repay 6k in what is an unfair system that very quickly leads to 100's of euros...

fox0512

savagethegoat wrote: »

I expect they took one look at your car and decided it wasn't worth the €600 :cool:

lol ... I simply told their legal that to retrieve the 5/600eur it would cost them 3k plus in court...I know the law,he knew it and that was that.

Special Circumstances

RossieMan wrote: »

Can someone ban this fella already? He's talking out of his arse and offering advise to avoid payment.

I think a Freeman or two would round this thread out nicely entertainment wise!

Needles73

fox0512 wrote: »

Only an idiot would enter into talks to repay 6k in what is an unfair system that very quickly leads to 100's of euros...

I think if that's the advice you are giving we all can see who is the idiot

fox0512

Needles73 wrote: »

I think if that's the advice you are giving we all can see who is the idiot

What would be your advice?.... Pay 6k ???

The point is that she can get what she wants without having to pay that figure...

I dont understand the confusing... day after day people are being bullied from money collectors etc and crap their pants when they receive a legal letter...she can simply enter talks for a revised amount!

joeysoap

I have friends from NI who crossed the bridge two years ago. Not familiar with bridge and didn't pay. Never heard another word either. I think if it's a 'once' off and not repeated you might get away with it. My friends are genuine they didn't know anything about it until talking to me. I don't like the M50 and when I am very occassionally driving ( not more than 4 times a year) on it I try and concentrate on the road - not overhead instructions, having said that if I change my car I just put it onto the credit card with eflow and take the old car off. If this lady had done it that way she would get at least months notice from the credit card company.

savagethegoat

If you aren't observing the signs, what other signs are you missing? A bit worrying.

That your friend is from NI is the clue as to why he never heard more.

savagethegoat

fox0512 wrote: »

What would be your advice?.... Pay 6k ???

The point is that she can get what she wants without having to pay that figure...

I dont understand the confusing... day after day people are being bullied from money collectors etc and crap their pants when they receive a legal letter...she can simply enter talks for a revised amount!

She has paid the 6k in effect.... they have her car. If she doesn't stump up quick in cash, it will be off to the Auction. They hold all the cards now.

Freeman: for the record there is a wait list of about 16 weeks for free legal aid ......your car would be sold by then !!!! NOT good advice - research your stuff !

joeysoap

Fair point, I meant overhead instructions about paying , not road or traffic signs. My car has a speed setting on it, when I come to the part of the road where the speed reduces to 100 , I can set it to that, yet I am constantly overtaken by traffic as though I am crawling. M50 is a jungle as far as I see. Anyway that's getting away from topic, I was merely stating that by registering your car with eflow by the credit card you can't get caught by surprise, you have the normal credit card rules including minimum payment, so maybe instead DD the lady should have taken this route.

fox0512

I agree shes in a tough spot .... but if shes willing to make some kind of payment the sheriff office has to listen.. refusing to pay a bill is so diff in being unable to to pay and a court will listen every time regarding a payment plan..hope it works out for her...its tough one

Seth Brundle

fox0512 wrote: »

I agree shes in a tough spot .... but if shes willing to make some kind of payment the sheriff office has to listen.. refusing to pay a bill is so diff in being unable to to pay and a court will listen every time regarding a payment plan..hope it works out for her...its tough one

Apparently the sheriffs office did say that they would reduce the amount by 50%.
The OP aseed how she could get the car back without paying the sheriff so my take on it is that she is still unwilling to behave like a grown up and accept her responsibilities.

fox0512

kbannon wrote: »

Apparently the sheriffs office did say that they would reduce the amount by 50%.
The OP aseed how she could get the car back without paying the sheriff so my take on it is that she is still unwilling to behave like a grown up and accept her responsibilities.

Ah well if thats the craic then I have no sympathy :rolleyes:

Needles73

fox0512 wrote: »

What would be your advice?.... Pay 6k ???

The point is that she can get what she wants without having to pay that figure...

I dont understand the confusing... day after day people are being bullied from money collectors etc and crap their pants when they receive a legal letter...she can simply enter talks for a revised amount!

Advice is engage and talk. Blindly ignoring correspondence is her own fault. Agree with not necessarily 6k being the figure but this her fault alone

fox0512

Needles73 wrote: »

Advice is engage and talk. Blindly ignoring correspondence is her own fault. Agree with not necessarily 6k being the figure but this her fault alone

Hey look I agree...to reach 6k must be a record for e flow that 6k = a lot of ignored letters, court dates...I would not advise anyone to not pay a bill just for the sake of it....and TBH a3k settlement would be very fair from eflow as it would barley cover their costs at this point...

savagethegoat

joeysoap wrote: »

Fair point, I meant overhead instructions about paying , not road or traffic signs. My car has a speed setting on it, when I come to the part of the road where the speed reduces to 100 , I can set it to that, yet I am constantly overtaken by traffic as though I am crawling. M50 is a jungle as far as I see. Anyway that's getting away from topic, I was merely stating that by registering your car with eflow by the credit card you can't get caught by surprise, you have the normal credit card rules including minimum payment, so maybe instead DD the lady should have taken this route.

how do you know what the sign is about without reading it? It might be vital traffic info but you wont know.

Wanderer78

What is the story with this company? I paid the toll and fine, but they decided to take more money from my account! Another phone call required!

Seth Brundle

Wanderer78 wrote: »

What is the story with this company? I paid the toll and fine, but they decided to take more money from my account! Another phone call required!

Yes, best to ask here before calling then directly.
:rolleyes:

Wanderer78

kbannon wrote:

Yes, best to ask here before calling then directly.

Thanks smarty pants!

ebbsy

In this country not paying road tax or parking fines is a greater crime than robbing or assault.

Kimbot

People are way too hung up on the debt been €24. The debt would be 24 euro if the girl managed to pay her tolls in time and she didn't. All the penalties for using toll roads are set out for everyone to see in black and white and when people forget to pay the pay the fine.

Already I see "oh should the judgement come registered post", so this person just wants to blame the postal system now for this mess? Come on, everyone and their dog already know the key point here: you have to pay to use toll roads. So with that in mind if you don't want to pay the fee then don't use the roads it's really as simple as that. My advice now on this matter is the girl should just grow the hell up, accept responsibility for her failings, engage with the sheriff and sort this mess out without blaming others.

Widdershins

jonnycivic wrote: »

People are way too hung up on the debt been €24. The debt would be 24 euro if the girl managed to pay her tolls in time and she didn't. All the penalties for using toll roads are set out for everyone to see in black and white and when people forget to pay the pay the fine.

Already I see "oh should the judgement come registered post", so this person just wants to blame the postal system now for this mess? Come on, everyone and their dog already know the key point here: you have to pay to use toll roads. So with that in mind if you don't want to pay the fee then don't use the roads it's really as simple as that. My advice now on this matter is the girl should just grow the hell up, accept responsibility for her failings, engage with the sheriff and sort this mess out without blaming others.

Sounds like they took more than that from her bank account or credit card? Someone said if you default on a 10 fine/fee they take 50, or something like that..sorry, can't remember the exact post.
If you only have so much to live on and suddenly a big chunk of that is swiped, it can mess up your food budget, rent/mortgage etc. IF she has anxiety especially, it could all have spiralled out of control for her very quickly.

Kimbot

Widdershins wrote: »

Sounds like they took more than that from her bank account or credit card? Someone said if you default on a 10 fine/fee they take 50, or something like that..sorry, can't remember the exact post.
If you only have so much to live on and suddenly a big chunk of that is swiped, it can mess up your food budget, rent/mortgage etc. IF she has anxiety especially, it could all have spiralled out of control for her very quickly.

OK she said she used to have an account and they took more out than they should so she cancelled the account. Now cancelling her account was her choice and the consequences of that choice was that she had to pay her tolls in time. She didn't pay not just once but for 12 different trips and all the fines etc that come. She ignored it all, plain and simple she chose to do it and nobody put a gun to her head. As I said she's an adult so she should start acting like one and sort her own mess out by first of all taking responsibility for letting get to this point.

Johnboy1951

wonski wrote: »

OK, here it goes.

First of all average value of cars seized was not €28,600.

Also just because they listed some high end cars, some of them almost 10 years old anyway, doesn't mean there weren't any old bangers. Out of 60 they listed some either BMW/Audis or the newest they could find (which happened to be Corolla and Transit). They also seized red car which shows how detailed this news report is.

And finally, it is all speculation at this stage, because one little thing can change the future, and who knows what the actual value of these cars will be in 2105:





This level of journalism is why I generally wouldn't call it a report. A piece written by an intern more like.

I found that most enlightening .....

In 2105, State-owned toll operator eFlow seized a total of 59 cars on the back of court judgements, just two of which appeared to have been registered outside Dublin – to addresses in Clonee, Co Meath.

It is good to know what will happen in the future ....... wonder if a bet could be laid with Paddy Power ......

Widdershins

jonnycivic wrote: »

OK she said she used to have an account and they took more out than they should so she cancelled the account. Now cancelling her account was her choice and the consequences of that choice was that she had to pay her tolls in time. She didn't pay not just once but for 12 different trips and all the fines etc that come. She ignored it all, plain and simple she chose to do it and nobody put a gun to her head. As I said she's an adult so she should start acting like one and sort her own mess out by first of all taking responsibility for letting get to this point.

She's not here so we don't know. I got the impression she was supposed to be challenging fines but she didn't go to court. I'm going to guess things starting spiralling out of her control and it all got on top of her. Anxiety can make it hard to even make a phone call.