New beginning?

GT_TDI_150

Hi.

This is my first time posting in the pets section and im starting with a heart break.

We live out in the coutry side, 3/4acre site ditches on 2 sides, a copper beach hedge on the other 2 and a gate facing the road.

On Tuesday, our 4.5yr old Bichon managed to get out on one of the ditched sides, chased a rabbit out of a gate in a field and straight under an oncoming car. Unfortunatly, but also fortunatly, he was dead instantly.

The kids, my wife and i were destraught. We gathered his favorite toys, blanket and even chews and buried him.

Even though its hard, all of us seem of the same opinion... at some point a new dog is needed.

From my point of view, the current fella sat with me on the couch every night, i carried him to his bed after he check the doors with me.

He used to sit with my wife when she sat for a cuppa when the kids are in school.

He used to wait for the kids coming home from school on the couch looking out the window....

We all had a bond and want to fill the emptyness at some point.

My main concern is any new dog will find a way out to and meet the same faith. So i want to create a fence that will mean once a dog is let out the back door he was a patch of grass and a pile of tarmac to run on.

A run seperated from the house just wouldnt work as the back door here is open 75% of the time with the kids in and out constantly.

The area we've in mind would mean a perimeter of about 60m stretching from one corner of the hous to the diagonal opposite, taking in a piece of lawn and following driveway for the rest. Just on fence materials, gates etc... for some of the green meshed metal fence would work out at between 1500 and 2000..... .... without considering the cost of concreting the 20odd posts, etc

A shorter fence isnt an option as it would mean excluding the grass from his area or posts and fencing inthe middle of a driveway.

So im wondering has anyone any other suggestions?

DBB

That sounds like an over-the-top plan with the fencing materials op... Way more expensive than it needs to be.
Metal fencing is very pricey... Is chain link, chicken wire or sheep wire an option? The latter you're looking at €110ish for a 200m roll. We fenced off a paddock here recently, then sheeted it with green windbreak (€40 for 50m), it looks great. You'd only need to concrete in the corner posts (or put strainers on the corners, no concrete needed at all then... Though concrete is very cheap), using pencil posts along the fence for stability. Really good, pressure-treated posts are €8 each, pencil posts maybe €2-3 each.

GT_TDI_150

DBB wrote: »

That sounds like an over-the-top plan with the fencing materials op... Way more expensive than it needs to be.
Metal fencing is very pricey... Is chain link, chicken wire or sheep wire an option? The latter you're looking at €110ish for a 200m roll. We fenced off a paddock here recently, then sheeted it with green windbreak (€40 for 50m), it looks great. You'd only need to concrete in the corner posts (or put strainers on the corners, no concrete needed at all then... Though concrete is very cheap), using pencil posts along the fence for stability. Really good, pressure-treated posts are €8 each, pencil posts maybe €2-3 each.

Thanks for the reply .. I'd be concern about a dog being able to forcing their way under a chainlink chicken wire style fence ... I just though the metal fences are ridgid and wouldnt bend if a dog tried to crawl under it

DBB

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply .. I'd be concern about a dog being able to forcing their way under a chainlink chicken wire style fence ... I just though the metal fences are ridgid and wouldnt bend if a dog tried to crawl under it

That's where the good tensioning comes in... Guitar-string tight. I had a much simpler fence in my last garden that kept not only my dogs, but the multitude of foster dogs I cared for in! And it was only 24 inches high

Here's a pic of the fence we put up, just to illustrate. The posts are pretty substantial, and there's barbed wire across the top as the fence needs to keep livestock in
The pinky purple creature in the background is me... I dunno, weeding or something!

Ms Doubtfire1

perfect fencing!!! you can also get little cramps ( thats what they called? ) you can hammer into the ground to avoid the dog squeezing under the fence.:-)

tk123

OT... but I wish I had a paddock

GT_TDI_150

actually looks like butting up 4/5ft wall might be the cheapest option yet ... (expluding the posts. tension wire and chainlink option ... missus isnt going to go for that)

Ms Doubtfire1

even a knee high dog will scale a wall like that no problem.

GT_TDI_150

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

even a knee high dog will scale a wall like that no problem.

Would the same not be true for a fence so?

Ms Doubtfire1

not necessarily.the top line of a fence isn't really suitable to place your paws on. Regardless how small the width on top of a wall is, it will lend itself to support a dogs paws. A decent fence like shown in the picture is the only way to keep your dog safe.

Bells21

Hi OP, I'm just wondering have you looked into wooden fencing with concrete posts and kickboards so that they can't dig under it? The fence panels we got were in 5ft lengths(the boards were side by side so no gaps) and we got it in 4ft height because we've only small dogs and the kickboard adds extra height too but they had the option of 6ft height. We had a substantial area to fence and it wasn't too costly.

SillyMangoX

Would something like this work if building a wall was cheapest? Mostly used in cats so I don't know would it be effective for dogs, but might be worth a shot?

Choc Chip

When I was looking to have our garden fenced it was going to cost us an absolute fortune. We ended up having our neighbour do it over a few weeks for about half the price - I don't suppose you know anyone who is handy with tools/ building who could give you a hand?

Also, Mrs Doubtfire mentioned cramps. I tried to do those myself but they weren't holding the fence down at all as the tension was too tight and the ground was uneven so in places the dog could have potentially dug under. Again, kindly neighbour came to the rescue with concrete pegs - they're amazing and will hold anything down.

ShaShaBear

Choc Chip wrote: »

When I was looking to have our garden fenced it was going to cost us an absolute fortune. We ended up having our neighbour do it over a few weeks for about half the price - I don't suppose you know anyone who is handy with tools/ building who could give you a hand?

Also, Mrs Doubtfire mentioned cramps. I tried to do those myself but they weren't holding the fence down at all as the tension was too tight and the ground was uneven so in places the dog could have potentially dug under. Again, kindly neighbour came to the rescue with concrete pegs - they're amazing and will hold anything down.

Seconded on finding someone handy! We wanted to price a large paddock-style gate for the separation between our grassy garden and our patio to stop Opie from wrecking the grass as it was growing. We got quoted €75 for the gate and another €30 to fit it.
On the advice of a family member, we bought the wooden components and the fixtures and he put it together and fit it for €20
I know it's not a huge fence, but if you are sensible you should be able to save money on that!

GT_TDI_150

Im handy enough and would put up whatever option we end up going for myself. Is the materials are costly


Any one have experiencewith the electric collars?

aonb

A neighbour up the way has an electric collar on their lab/pointer x.
Its a nervous enough dog in the first place, but since they put the collar on her, she is a wreck - doesnt go ANYWHERE near the perimeter, in fairness, they only put the collar on her when they are out, so she is outside too, but its horrible to look at her pacing up and down when we pass, staying meters away from the electric perimeter. I dont like them

We have fenced in our area similar to photo above. We didnt use the posts as sturdy as those in the photo, we also didnt use the lovely green windbreak. We used pallet planks as 'kickboards' (free), we enclosed an acre, and it looks really neat/tidy, and cost a couple hundred - we dug holes (not concrete) for the posts, staple gun'd the sheepwire really tightly, then added the stripped off planks from pallets to the base. We've had fostered nutty lurchers here, and many terriers, and many visiting dogs, no-one has escaped yet!!

sunshine and showers

Have you considered a wireless electric fence? I know some people might not agree with them, but it's how our dogs have the freedom of the whole garden without the fear of them being run over on the road out the front.

It's a process to train them, but once it's done it's great. Our dogs know exactly how far they can go up the driveway. They've only ever been shocked by it once (it's not very strong, I shocked myself with it!) and to be honest I'd rather that one small shock than a truck hitting either of them!

The box is plugged in in our sitting room with the radius set to allow them access to most of the garden. Their collars go on in the morning and come off at night. Everyone's happy!

s15r330

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Have you considered a wireless electric fence? I know some people might not agree with them, but it's how our dogs have the freedom of the whole garden without the fear of them being run over on the road out the front.

It's a process to train them, but once it's done it's great. Our dogs know exactly how far they can go up the driveway. They've only ever been shocked by it once (it's not very strong, I shocked myself with it!) and to be honest I'd rather that one small shock than a truck hitting either of them!

The box is plugged in in our sitting room with the radius set to allow them access to most of the garden. Their collars go on in the morning and come off at night. Everyone's happy!

Everyone is happy until they realise they can run through it. All of a sudden they realise the shock stops and they're out.
Happened my cousins dog, it only took the one time, she was at it all the time then.
Don't like them at all.

Choc Chip

I'm sure you're going to get a barrage of comments on electric fences op, but in short:
(i) they're not particularly humane. Many countries have banned them. Ask yourself this: if the dog isn't afraid of the shock then what is keeping them in? Subjecting your dog to pain or the fear of pain is cruel, in my opinion.
(ii) they don't work. Pounds all over the country have dogs landing in with collars still on them. Eventually your dog will see something on the other side that is worth enough for them to brave the pain. And when they are through the barrier there is no incentive to come back.
(iii) They don't stop other animals or people coming in and doing damage to or stealing your dog.

Essentially, a good solid fence will be more expensive but far more effective at keeping your dog safe.

scarepanda

We built and put up a treated timber fence during the summer. It's approx 3ft high as it is sitting on a 4ft block wall. It's fixed in place using 3x2 posts which are fixed to the wall directly. It cost us approx €400 for all the timber and fixings for a length of approx 50m.
We didn't really price around for cheapest deal on the timber, but we did price similar panels in the local hardware store where we bought all the materials and the same job using these pre made panels with out fixings or posts would have cost approx €1500.
We've ended up with a higher quality fence for a fraction of the cost simply by making it up ourselves.
And definately put up a fence of some description. Yes it's more expensive than using an electric collar, but by far the better road to go down. You'll end up with far more problems with your dog by using the collar.

sunshine and showers

OP asked for experiences with electric fencing. We have never had an issue with either of our dogs (3 yr old female cocker spaniel and 1 yr old make cocker spaniel). They're not nervous, they're very happy dogs. It's just a fact of life to them that the very top of the driveway is off limits. The younger fella is very smart and knows when the batteries in his collar have run out and the fence won't work, so we keep an eye on that.

I disagree that it's inhumane, but that's just my opinion.

ShaShaBear

sunshine and showers wrote: »

OP asked for experiences with electric fencing. We have never had an issue with either of our dogs (3 yr old female cocker spaniel and 1 yr old make cocker spaniel). They're not nervous, they're very happy dogs. It's just a fact of life to them that the very top of the driveway is off limits. The younger fella is very smart and knows when the batteries in his collar have run out and the fence won't work, so we keep an eye on that.

I disagree that it's inhumane, but that's just my opinion.

As a general rule, anecdotal evidence isn't much good in these cases. As you've said yourself, one of your dogs has already worked out when he can risk it. You can't have your attention on him 24/7 and if he's smart, it won't take him too long to realise if he stands really close to the perimeter he can wear down the battery and run. And when he does, trust me - the others will chance following.
The sheer amount of dogs in pounds all over the country still wearing their shock collars should be deterrent enough.

Bells21

Wireless fences are quite a divisive subject. Our neighbours started using one on their husky who was a lovely, even tempered dog. The first day they put it on him all you could hear throughout the day was yelps. The neighbours came out for a while to try and keep him away from the perimeter but unfortunately she put her hand on the dog just as he got another shock. His head turned toward the owner so quick, she was lucky that her hand was right at the back of the dog. The cost of a physical fence is worth the dog's comfort and the owner's peace of mind I think.

molly09

So sorry for you all about the loss of your pet, I am sitting here with my little puppy (nearly 3 years) on top of me and I just feeling so bad for you all. I would be lost without him but it sounds like he had an an amazing loving life.

borderlinemeath

OP, an extended family member had a dog with a shock collar/electric fence. She has to rehome him as he associated the pain of the shock with her husband and tried to bite him when he was putting his lead on. He was so terrified of it that he used to sit in one spot beside the back door and refuse to move. Their son was only 5 or 6 at the time and it was a risk they couldn't take. So a fabulously even tempered golden retriever was turned into a nervous wreck by using one.

tk123

There was a dog on the course I did who'd been shocked by a collar.. He had to be carried through the door/gate ways at the training centre after being shocked once - he was too afraid to walk through them!

DBB

I've used them too OP... quite a few years ago now when I was bit innocent about these things.
Both of my dogs would run through the fence if they were motivated enough to get to the other side... you could see them running, tensing up their bodies in anticipation of the shock, and then getting out the other side to freedom and no more shocks. Then they wouldn't come back in due to not having the motivation to do so. This is one reason why so many dogs wearing shock collars end up in the pound.
I need to clarify that I went over and above to train my dogs to the fence, and it worked up to a point, but it is absolutely not close to 100% reliable. I still struggle to this day with the guilt of having used it tbh, because it did hurt my dogs, and it did make them anxious, and whilst one poster said the shock didn't hurt them, I have been shocked by them and found it really unpleasant... worse than the belt you'd get from an electric fence.
I'd also wager that anyone who says they're not painful (a) were not wearing the electrodes on their throats when they tried them, and (b) were able to withdraw their hand immediately to get away from the shock within a second.
There is a fair amount of research on the effects on the welfare of animals upon which electric shock collars generally have been used OP, it's not good. In addition, the dog and animal behaviourists' associations condemn them due to the substantial risk of welfare problems, and consequent behavioural problems associated with them. Having worked now with many dogs that have behavioural issues as a direct result of the radio fence, it's just not worth the risk. There is simply nothing like a decent physical fence.
Furthermore, if the boundary wire is laid down around a boundary that already has undergrowth, a hedge, a wall, or some sort of visual cue that the dog learns to take heed of, it is probably easier to contain a dog with a shock collar in such gardens where there's already a substantial visual boundary, but that happens to have some small weak points in it.
However, you've been talking, I think, about putting your fence across an open grassy area? The shock collar comes with flags that you're meant to use to demarcate to the dog where the wire is buried in an open area, but honestly op, having worked with many dogs that have been asked to recognise what the line of flags actually signifies, the amount of shocks the dog gets before they make the connection about location and shock is unacceptably high. Only a matter of a few weeks ago, I walked past a garden in which I could see these little flags.. the owners had recently put them up, but hadn't thought to prevent their Border Terrier from having unsupervised run of the garden. The dog hurtled over towards me, when the shock hit her. It was utterly horrible. She had no clue how to make it stop because she hadn't been taught. There's a very real danger that the dog now has issues around people walking past her garden, because they hurt her... she thinks. This sort of thing happens more often than you'd like to think.
So yeah... build a fence OP... to get back to the original point, they don't have to be nearly as expensive as you'd think.

GT_TDI_150

Thanks every one for the reply on the shock collars ... my fear of them has always been that if they want it enough they'll endure the shock and once they are out ... why endure the shock to get back in.

After talking it through with her self and giving her picture examples of what she would be looking at ... it looking like a wall...

So next question...

The wall would be ... 7m > conrner > 10m > 3ft gap(gate) > 5m > corner > 5m > corner > 5m > corner > 17m >large gate.

considering the wall spans between corners / endpoints ... would people go for a 4" wide solid block or the 8" wide cavity block?

Thanks

DBB

One more suggestion... Again cheaper and handy to put together yourself if you're handy... A picket fence-type thing?

Rommie

DBB wrote: »

One more suggestion... Again cheaper and handy to put together yourself if you're handy... A picket fence-type thing?

I did this before I last moved house to split up the garden for when we had fosters and its very easy to put up. I bought an extra panel to cut in half and attach hinges to to make a gate as well, then put concrete slabs at the bottom to prevent any digging. Worked like a charm

DBB

This is one my OH put together from scratch, rather than buying it in panels. Cheaper again!
Each slat is 4 foot high in this case, and each is 6" wide... they were €1.75 each, mounted on 15' 9" long pressure treated rails.
Something like this might look better on the open area, maybe use green plastic-coated wire mesh around the boundaries with hedges or trees so that it kinda melts into the growth.