Teaching Maths..am I crazy???

id0ntkn0w

Hi,
i've been on the forum before asking for advice about becoming a science teacher as I find chemistry really interesting.
Well, I didn't mention at the time..but I'm also passionate about Maths and have been doing online courses for the last 6 months. I just read a thread that mentions the teaching council WILL accept an open university degree for Maths or chemistry. Got me a bit excited!!
Looking into the future, I wouldn't really have an issue hopping across the water for work (lived there for a couple of years and really enjoyed it).
Just wondering if anyone can give me an insight into the open university degrees for these subjects.
Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned but I would have thought Open university degrees were less respected...dont mean to insult anyone....I've no doubt they are as good as any other degree but you know what people can be like when the word "online" is mentioned.
So what do you think? For maths, it would be so much more convenient for me to study at home and work around my own schedule...but when applying for a job in Ireland and the UK, what are peoples attitudes to OPen uni?
PS> Yes,I know there are NO teaching jobs.....dont really want to get into that on this thread.

evolving_doors

Do you have a teaching qualification?

A degree is a degree, I think more emphasis in Ireland would be put on 'where' you did your teaching degree rather than your main degree (if at all).
If there is the apparent shortage of teachers in the UK then I don't think they'll care too much about where you got your degree from. It takes a lot of stamina to study completely on your own rather than go into college and bounce thoughts/fears/ideas off other students in your situation, well done! don't sell yourself short

id0ntkn0w

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Do you have a teaching qualification?

A degree is a degree, I think more emphasis in Ireland would be put on 'where' you did your teaching degree rather than your main degree (if at all).
If there is the apparent shortage of teachers in the UK then I don't think they'll care too much about where you got your degree from. It takes a lot of stamina to study completely on your own rather than go into college and bounce thoughts/fears/ideas off other students in your situation, well done! don't sell yourself short

Thanks,
Im a glutan for punishment!
A friend of mine (who has a PHD in biology) from the UK, could have been given a 20,000 sterling bursary if he went back and did one years training to teach chemistry or physics...He said he "couldnt be bothered"...I could have kicked him..repeatedly! But I guess I understand, hes working on building a lecturing career in biology...still though...I would have liked to have been in his position!

mtoutlemonde

id0ntkn0w wrote: »

Hi,
i've been on the forum before asking for advice about becoming a science teacher as I find chemistry really interesting.
Well, I didn't mention at the time..but I'm also passionate about Maths and have been doing online courses for the last 6 months. I just read a thread that mentions the teaching council WILL accept an open university degree for Maths or chemistry. Got me a bit excited!!
Looking into the future, I wouldn't really have an issue hopping across the water for work (lived there for a couple of years and really enjoyed it).
Just wondering if anyone can give me an insight into the open university degrees for these subjects.
Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned but I would have thought Open university degrees were less respected...dont mean to insult anyone....I've no doubt they are as good as any other degree but you know what people can be like when the word "online" is mentioned.
So what do you think? For maths, it would be so much more convenient for me to study at home and work around my own schedule...but when applying for a job in Ireland and the UK, what are peoples attitudes to OPen uni?
PS> Yes,I know there are NO teaching jobs.....dont really want to get into that on this thread.

Here is a link for the Teaching Council recognised courses http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwig6q6qsfHOAhVVOMAKHWDkDW0QFgggMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.teachingcouncil.ie%2Fen%2FPublications%2FRegistration%2FDocuments%2FCurricular-Subject-Requirements-up-to-Dec-2016.pdf&usg=AFQjCNG2hi8oVo4U0XK8c0bSHrf7_22fRA

See page 69 for open university.

I wouldn't worry about where a degree came from - a degree is a degree. Studying with open university shows enthusiasm and being able to work on your own.

Just remember you need a teaching qualification which will now take you two years + 4 years degree programme = 6 years add another five years to get teaching work in Ireland (easier in the UK).

Best of luck.

id0ntkn0w

thanks so much for your help!

evolving_doors

id0ntkn0w wrote: »

Thanks,
Im a glutan for punishment!
A friend of mine (who has a PHD in biology) from the UK, could have been given a 20,000 sterling bursary if he went back and did one years training to teach chemistry or physics...He said he "couldnt be bothered"...I could have kicked him..repeatedly! But I guess I understand, hes working on building a lecturing career in biology...still though...I would have liked to have been in his position!

Your friend with the PHd would probably earn double that in industry no? ... also there is the 'minor detail' of working with teenagers who DONT want to learn:pac:

I'd suggest you broaden your horizons though in terms of interacting with students (volunteering with local charities to give grinds to disadvantaged kids etc). It's grand being 'into maths' on your own at home but there's a bit more to it in terms of people skills and working with young people. This kind of stuff will really make you stand out when you go to interviews. Even if you decide to give 1 student a grind every week it'll get your head in the right place in terms of explaining/verbalising what you know (you gotta go through the exam papers though to get up to speed).

mtoutlemonde

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Your friend with the PHd would probably earn double that in industry no? ... also there is the 'minor detail' of working with teenagers who DONT want to learn:pac:

I'd suggest you broaden your horizons though in terms of interacting with students (volunteering with local charities to give grinds to disadvantaged kids etc). It's grand being 'into maths' on your own at home but there's a bit more to it in terms of people skills and working with young people. This kind of stuff will really make you stand out when you go to interviews. Even if you decide to give 1 student a grind every week it'll get your head in the right place in terms of explaining/verbalising what you know (you gotta go through the exam papers though to get up to speed).

+1 had lecturers in university who were excellent mathematicians but couldn't teach it. I remember one fella being asked questions and his response being 'I'll tell you tomorrow'.

You would be surprised at how much kids don't know. Also what may seem very easy to you can be very difficult for kids to do and as said previously - how do you teach the 'unteachables' i.e. the ones that don't see the point and won't do anything.

rainbowtrout

I got my maths qualifications with Open University. I was already qualified as a science teacher, the maths was an extra subject. I found OU to be very organised, the material was not any easier than in a bricks and mortar university. OU I suppose have been the leader in distance education as they have been around for years and know what they are at. Lots of colleges now have a number of distance learning courses. Hibernia is the obvious one in terms of teacher education in Ireland.

OU is quite rigourous. You get all the materials you need sent to you to complete the modules. You get a timetable of what you are supposed to study every week and when you are supposed to send in your assignments. There are end of year exams held in centres around Ireland, just like in regular colleges. It's certainly an option if you want to work towards a maths degree in the long term while continuing to work elsewhere. Typically a person who is working and studying part time takes about 6 years to complete a degree with OU. There's also the fees to consider. I don't know what the cost of modules are now, but I think a 30 credit module (modules are usually 30 or 60 credits) is around €1000. 360 credits is necessary for a full degree.

OU are currently quoting a fee of £16k for a full degree. That's about €20k which is expensive.

id0ntkn0w

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I got my maths qualifications with Open University. I was already qualified as a science teacher, the maths was an extra subject. I found OU to be very organised, the material was not any easier than in a bricks and mortar university. OU I suppose have been the leader in distance education as they have been around for years and know what they are at. Lots of colleges now have a number of distance learning courses. Hibernia is the obvious one in terms of teacher education in Ireland.

OU is quite rigourous. You get all the materials you need sent to you to complete the modules. You get a timetable of what you are supposed to study every week and when you are supposed to send in your assignments. There are end of year exams held in centres around Ireland, just like in regular colleges. It's certainly an option if you want to work towards a maths degree in the long term while continuing to work elsewhere. Typically a person who is working and studying part time takes about 6 years to complete a degree with OU. There's also the fees to consider. I don't know what the cost of modules are now, but I think a 30 credit module (modules are usually 30 or 60 credits) is around €1000. 360 credits is necessary for a full degree.

OU are currently quoting a fee of £16k for a full degree. That's about €20k which is expensive.

Thanks so much for your feedback. It must have taken some time and dedication to go back and do a degree in maths while teaching science!! It does kind of annoy me that the teaching council is such a stickler...I suppose the obvious question...as i'm interested in both science and maths is which is more useful in terms of job prospects? Everyones always complaining bout the lack of qualified honours maths teachers but that might not amount to much in terms of hours.
Also, it is pretty expensive but with an arts degree already, I'd have to pay full fees at uni anyway so not too bad i guess

rainbowtrout

id0ntkn0w wrote: »

Thanks so much for your feedback. It must have taken some time and dedication to go back and do a degree in maths while teaching science!! It does kind of annoy me that the teaching council is such a stickler...I suppose the obvious question...as i'm interested in both science and maths is which is more useful in terms of job prospects? Everyones always complaining bout the lack of qualified honours maths teachers but that might not amount to much in terms of hours.
Also, it is pretty expensive but with an arts degree already, I'd have to pay full fees at uni anyway so not too bad i guess

I didn't have to do the whole degree as I already had some maths in my original degree and you can register for an extra subject once you have one third of a degree in another subject (and meet other requirements such as topics covered and taking it to final year level), so I have about two thirds of a maths degree from OU. It was cheaper when I did it between 2007-2009. There was some sort of subsidy to OU from the UK government which was cut a couple of years ago and subsequently their fees went up across the board.

In terms of employability; well maths is a core subject so in my opinion would make you more employable than chemistry on a stand alone basis. But given that junior science is a core subject in pretty much every school in the country, it's a good subject to have.


I don't have a problem with the teaching council being such a stickler about qualifications. I know there are issues about them insisting on very specific content in some modules, but there have been so many people in this forum over the years looking for shortcuts to teaching/subject qualifications 'how can I get qualified in maths in a year?' type queries, when degree level qualifications are required to teach a subject.

In terms of the honours maths teachers, I don't understand that. You are either qualified to teach maths or you're not. Nobody is only qualified to teach ordinary level. The problem that exists with maths is that schools sometimes timetable a teacher who is not qualified in maths (typically science or business teachers) to teach maths, and put them teaching the ordinary level classes, but sometimes the higher level. Understandably teachers in those subject areas should have a good understanding of maths and probably did some in their degree. The reality is that the school doesn't have enough maths teachers, and are using teachers who are not qualified in the subject, and subsequently probably don't feel comfortable enough to teach the higher level (particularly to LC) as they don't have the experience in that area.

id0ntkn0w

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I didn't have to do the whole degree as I already had some maths in my original degree and you can register for an extra subject once you have one third of a degree in another subject (and meet other requirements such as topics covered and taking it to final year level), so I have about two thirds of a maths degree from OU. It was cheaper when I did it between 2007-2009. There was some sort of subsidy to OU from the UK government which was cut a couple of years ago and subsequently their fees went up across the board.

In terms of employability; well maths is a core subject so in my opinion would make you more employable than chemistry on a stand alone basis. But given that junior science is a core subject in pretty much every school in the country, it's a good subject to have.


I don't have a problem with the teaching council being such a stickler about qualifications. I know there are issues about them insisting on very specific content in some modules, but there have been so many people in this forum over the years looking for shortcuts to teaching/subject qualifications 'how can I get qualified in maths in a year?' type queries, when degree level qualifications are required to teach a subject.

In terms of the honours maths teachers, I don't understand that. You are either qualified to teach maths or you're not. Nobody is only qualified to teach ordinary level. The problem that exists with maths is that schools sometimes timetable a teacher who is not qualified in maths (typically science or business teachers) to teach maths, and put them teaching the ordinary level classes, but sometimes the higher level. Understandably teachers in those subject areas should have a good understanding of maths and probably did some in their degree. The reality is that the school doesn't have enough maths teachers, and are using teachers who are not qualified in the subject, and subsequently probably don't feel comfortable enough to teach the higher level (particularly to LC) as they don't have the experience in that area.

I see what you mean about schools using science teachers etc for maths. That makes more sense. You also got me thinking as I didnt realize you can add on a subject after qualifying....just wondering if ti might be possible to do it the other way around...I noticed that the teaching council also accepts the OU for chemistry, do you think it might be possible to do the OU maths degree and than later (After hibernia dip) add their chemistry modules? I hate the idea of having to choose between the two!

rainbowtrout

id0ntkn0w wrote: »

I see what you mean about schools using science teachers etc for maths. That makes more sense. You also got me thinking as I didnt realize you can add on a subject after qualifying....just wondering if ti might be possible to do it the other way around...I noticed that the teaching council also accepts the OU for chemistry, do you think it might be possible to do the OU maths degree and than later (After hibernia dip) add their chemistry modules? I hate the idea of having to choose between the two!

I have no idea. Only the TC will be able to answer that. What I can say is that from Jan 2017 that the TC will require you to have completed a teaching methodology module for maths and also science subjects.

rainbowtrout

id0ntkn0w wrote: »

Also, it is pretty expensive but with an arts degree already, I'd have to pay full fees at uni anyway so not too bad i guess

id0ntkn0w wrote: »

I hate the idea of having to choose between the two!

You know if you can afford it (given that Hibernia will cost you at least 10k) and a degree with OU the guts of 20K, it would nearly be cheaper to go back to college and do the Science Teaching degree in Maynooth. You choose two subjects in first year from Biology, Chemistry, Physics and Maths for your degree and do the teaching qualification as part of the degree.

mtoutlemonde

id0ntkn0w wrote: »

Also, it is pretty expensive but with an arts degree already, I'd have to pay full fees at uni anyway so not too bad i guess

Have you got teaching subjects with your BA? Could you apply for the dip and work on the modules you need during the dip and then when you finish and you get your foot in the door of a school, get a principal to sign off for the maths course in UL (if it's still running)?