Somme vs rising

History buff

57 000 soldiers some Irish some British were casualties in the first hour of the Somme
Around 55% of all casualties on UK side were Irish men
It's the same year as the rising which 66 died in and 16 executed.. Yes important too
But cmon some more recognition for the Irish somme men

Arsemageddon

The historical or political significance of an event is not dictated solely by the number of people killed.

There were more than 66 people during the Eater Rising.

KingBrian2

History buff wrote: »

57 000 soldiers some Irish some British were casualties in the first hour of the Somme
Around 55% of all casualties on UK side were Irish men
It's the same year as the rising which 66 died in and 16 executed.. Yes important too
But cmon some more recognition for the Irish somme men

Somewhat detached from the Somme since it happened in the trenches of Belgium. Lot knew what they were doing. It was a killing field and plenty died on both sides. The rising is very different.

History buff

I totally agree they had military expertise and weapons of better class while the rebels had not much at all, however I'm just annoyed how it effected so much Irish people and isn't commemorated half as much as the rising is this year ??

History buff

Arsemageddon wrote: »

The historical or political significance of an event is not dictated solely by the number of people killed.

There were more than 66 people during the Eater Rising.

Well statistics show 66 reported officially the new statistics are saying 400 however they looked into that and a lot of those were deaths in Dublin county during that week
Not all from the firing at all

LeinsterDub

History buff wrote: »

I totally agree they had military expertise and weapons of better class while the rebels had not much at all, however I'm just annoyed how it effected so much Irish people and isn't commemorated half as much as the rising is this year ??

In what way did it affect Irish life apart from casualties? The rising has on going affect on Irish life while the somme was just a other part of the meat grinder that was WW1.

History buff

The fact of the 100s of men that died in it 1000s maybe.. They all had around what 10 friends and family each living here. It affected 100s of thousands of citizens. Even if it didn't 'effect' Ireland we have no praise from the British for fighting on their side yet
Proper commemoration

History buff

KingBrian2 wrote: »

History buff wrote: »

57 000 soldiers some Irish some British were casualties in the first hour of the Somme
Around 55% of all casualties on UK side were Irish men
It's the same year as the rising which 66 died in and 16 executed.. Yes important too
But cmon some more recognition for the Irish somme men

Somewhat detached from the Somme since it happened in the trenches of Belgium. Lot knew what they were doing. It was a killing field and plenty died on both sides. The rising is very different.

France ?

Parachutes

History buff wrote: »

Well statistics show 66 reported officially the new statistics are saying 400 however they looked into that and a lot of those were deaths in Dublin county during that week
Not all from the firing at all

Definitely agree with you but I think part of the lack of recognition is to do with the fact they fought on the side of the 'enemy'

They were on the wrong side of history really.

History buff

Are you talking about the wrong side as in the battle of the Somme or the rising sorry

Parachutes

History buff wrote: »

Are you talking about the wrong side as in the battle of the Somme or the rising sorry

Battle of the Somme, as in a lot of our history nowadays is looked at through a nationalist lens.

History buff

Parachutes wrote: »

History buff wrote: »

Are you talking about the wrong side as in the battle of the Somme or the rising sorry

Battle of the Somme, as in a lot of our history nowadays is looked at through a nationalist lens.

Agreed yes, they were in a way fighting for the country who wrecked our country for years before and then after in the troubles so a thank u is definitely needed haha

Arsemageddon

History buff wrote: »

Well statistics show 66 reported officially the new statistics are saying 400 however they looked into that and a lot of those were deaths in Dublin county during that week
Not all from the firing at all

I don't know of any credible account of the rising that claims only 66 people were killed. Where are you getting that figure from?

History buff wrote: »

The fact of the 100s of men that died in it 1000s maybe.. They all had around what 10 friends and family each living here. It affected 100s of thousands of citizens. Even if it didn't 'effect' Ireland we have no praise from the British for fighting on their side yet Proper commemoration

That's simply not true.

Look at the link below and you will see Michael D. Higgins laying a wreath at the same time as David Cameron at the 100th anniversary this summer.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0701/799421-somme-anniversary-events/

History buff

Great news why is there 1 million events on all year for the Irish rising and none or very little for the Irish men who died for uk who really never treated us rught

jonniebgood1

History buff wrote: »

Great news why is there 1 million events on all year for the Irish rising and none or very little for the Irish men who died for uk who really never treated us rught

You were asked what your source for 66 deaths in rising was? Please have the coutesy to answer a direct question. This is particularly important when you are the op in this thread.
Moderator

KingBrian2

History buff wrote: »

France ?

The Belgium's did not have much of a country back then. It was all contested land between the Germans, Brits & French.

Peregrinus

History buff wrote: »

57 000 soldiers some Irish some British were casualties in the first hour of the Somme
Around 55% of all casualties on UK side were Irish men
It's the same year as the rising which 66 died in and 16 executed.. Yes important too
But cmon some more recognition for the Irish somme men

Was the Somme a senseless slaughter? Yes, it was.

Was it a particularly Irish senseless slaughter? No, not particularly. Yes, lots of Irish people died. But to magnify this to a "55%" figure we have to express it as a percentage of UK casualties, as though German, French, Australian, etc casualties somehow didn't count.

And, even then, the Battle of the Somme was just one murderous episode in a four-year cycle of slaughter.

It's not as though the senseless slaughter of the Great War goes unremarked or uncommemorated. On the contrary, it has profoundly marked the European mind from that day to this. There are direct and indirect reminders of it everywhere.

Ireland doesn't have a unique take on this. Every country in Europe has its own story of its involvement in the Great War, and so does Ireland. But, as far as the wider Irish story goes, the Battle of the Somme is not nearly so signficant as the 1916 Rising. The two are not unconnected, of course. If not the Battle of the Somme in particular, then certainly Ireland's involvement in the Great War in general changed Ireland radically, and made it a much more fertile ground for republicanism and separatism. Without the Great War, it's doubtful if we'd have had the War of Independence, or the Free State, or the Civil War, or Fianna Fail or Fine Gael, and the entire history of Ireland in the twentieth century would be radically different. And yet the main significance of the Great War in Ireland remains the context it set in which the national question was played out.

Jesus.

History buff wrote: »

57 000 soldiers some Irish some British were casualties in the first hour of the Somme. Around 55% of all casualties on UK side were Irish men. It's the same year as the rising which 66 died in and 16 executed.. Yes important too But cmon some more recognition for the Irish somme men

There were nearly 500 killed in the Rising, the vast majority Irish. Casualties were probably in the thousands. You're talking about Somme casualties as opposed to Somme deaths.

History buff

Thanks Jesus

Jesus.

No worries Buffy

BalcombeSt4

History buff wrote: »

I totally agree they had military expertise and weapons of better class while the rebels had not much at all, however I'm just annoyed how it effected so much Irish people and isn't commemorated half as much as the rising is this year ??

Well be prepared to be annoyed for long time to come.

The Somme just had no long term impact on Irish society & politics. Yes, it's very sad alright but they basically died in vein, just on the wrong side of history.

KingBrian2

The Somme was not the only battle Irish fought in so no need to concentrate on one single battlefield. Plenty of Irish died in the Dardanelles and possible other trenches.

riffmongous

The Somme is remembered more up North in Unionist/ Loyalist traditions

short bbc article on Orange Order and the Somme