Homelessness on the rise

The_Conductor

Deleted User wrote: »

While beds provided lie empty because of some condition that they objected to.

The conditions are quite reasonable- you respect other people staying there, and you agree not to drink or take drugs on the property. Normally, its no more restrictive than this.

The_Conductor

The_Conductor wrote: »

The conditions are quite reasonable- you respect other people staying there, and you agree not to drink or take drugs on the property. Normally, its no more restrictive than this.

The sad fact is that so many are unwilling or unable to accept those conditions.

The_Conductor

Deleted User wrote: »

The sad fact is that so many are unwilling or unable to accept those conditions.

I hear you.
The fact of the matter is- you have to have a minimum set of groundrules- and enforce them. You can't have a free-for-all, there is an onus to try and protect the most vulnerable people- and an environment where drugs and alcohol- or violence or any other antisocial behaviour occurs- is a danger to any vulnerable people, who through no fault of their own, find themselves in need of the facilities on offer.

If people have a drugs or an alcohol dependency- they do deserve assistance- but not where it impinges on the rights of those who do not have dependencies or addictions.

People can and do fall through the cracks- they may be very much in a minority- but they tend to be high profile cases- that are latched onto by the national media- and held up by the organisations and charities to try and depict social and societal issues- in a particular light.

We do have a problem with homelessness in Ireland- yes.
Is it a larger problem than in other countries- probably not.
Why is it in the media- because the government has decided to outsource it to external organisations- if it was still handled in house by the various local authorities- arguably, it might not feature (in the media).

Our politicians have become remarkably adept at abdicating competence for particular responsibilities elsewhere. Thus if you write into any given Minister with a specific query- you'll find you get a response advising you that your question (on Housing, or funding for charities- or statistical analysis etc etc) does not come under the competent responsibility of the Minister- it is a function ascribed to a body under the auspices of his Department- and your query is going be politely booted to the RTB, or Threshold- or a local authority- or whatever- but not the Minister and his/her government Department.

This is the system we have evolved- one where there is no responsibility associated with our politicians- its all setting up a series of scapegoats and fallguys for anything that goes wrong.

This is so wrong on so many different levels- yet, no-one is willing to yell 'stop'..........

handlemaster

Lots of empty property outside of Dublin. The Dublin city council should move on a offer property on the whole island working with local agents etc

BorneTobyWilde

I see more and more homeless, but people comment they are rich kids faking it, beggars, who return to their mansion in the evening. It really puts me off giving them anything.

TresGats

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I see more and more homeless, but people comment they are rich kids faking it, beggars, who return to their mansion in the evening. It really puts me off giving them anything.

Where do the people comment? In the DailyMail comments section? It's the sort of non-sense they regularly trot out. I cannot envisage a middle class or "rich" person braving the pavements in December.
You could also try talking to a homeless person, you might find your preconceived ideas are just that.

hawkelady

.[/QUOTE]



Where do the people comment? In the DailyMail comments section? It's the sort of non-sense they regularly trot out. I cannot envisage a middle class or "rich" person braving the pavements in December.
You could also try talking to a homeless person, you might find your preconceived ideas are just that.[/quote]

Surely you heard of the stories that involve a minibus pulling up at o Connell bridge and a load of Roma guys n girls hopping out and getting into position to beg for the day , and at the end of the day the bus returns and they all pile in with their takings for the day !!

Tony EH

I've, personally, no time for the Roma no matter what country I've come across them. But on what planet are they considered "middle class" or "rich"?

pilly

Tony EH wrote:

I've, personally, no time for the Roma no matter what country I've come across them. But on what planet are they considered "middle class" or "rich"?

Or lived in mansions for that matter?

Kivaro

hawkelady wrote: »

Surely you heard of the stories that involve a minibus pulling up at o Connell bridge and a load of Roma guys n girls hopping out and getting into position to beg for the day , and at the end of the day the bus returns and they all pile in with their takings for the day !!

Haven't heard about the minibus, but yesterday I read where they fly into the country to beg on our streets, with one of them paying €1,110 for himself and his 5 'colleagues' for the flight to our lucrative country.

Here:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/romanians-will-face-jail-if-they-continue-to-beg-463850.html

Topgear on Dave

Kivaro wrote: »

Haven't heard about the minibus, but yesterday I read where they fly into the country to beg on our streets, with one of them paying €1,110 for himself and his 5 'colleagues' for the flight to our lucrative country.

Here:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/romanians-will-face-jail-if-they-continue-to-beg-463850.html

Theres been a fairly organised crew working every corner in Maynooth for the last 2 or 3 years and nothing being done about it.


Its a separate issue to the homeless crisis though. If they can make it across Europe to come here, they should be able to pay their own housing.

hawkelady

Another reason you shouldn't give one cent to any beggar. You just don't know if it's genuine or not ....

Eric Cartman

Tony EH wrote: »

I've, personally, no time for the Roma no matter what country I've come across them. But on what planet are they considered "middle class" or "rich"?

There was a Roma gypsy beggar in leixlip last Christmas who used to get dropped off in a 2014 S class Mercedes every morning.

There was a house busted up in south Dublin before where a Roma family were claiming 90,000 per annum off social welfare and had additional unproved income from organised begging, prostitution and theft.

They have ways of making money.

NIMAN

I heard an advert on the radio this morning for a homeless charity I think.

There was a final line which more or less said to donate to them "to cure homelessness".

How are they planning to do that? Are they buulding houses?

Wanderer78

NIMAN wrote:

How are they planning to do that? Are they buulding houses?

Disturbingly, it's never gonna be solved, in fact it's gonna keep getting worse, indefinitely

The_Conductor

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Disturbingly, it's never gonna be solved, in fact it's gonna keep getting worse, indefinitely

Depends on what you define 'solved' to be.........
There will *always* be a background level of people sleeping rough on the streets- its not as simple as building houses and offering them one- very often those sleeping rough have mental health and/or addiction issues- which are at least as important and potentially far more difficult issues to address- than 'homelessness' or 'sleeping rough'- you can't look at one of these (sleeping rough for example) in isolation from other factors.

Then there is the issue of what exactly homelessness involves- and who it affects. It suits Threshold and other advocacy groups- to inflate the definition as much as possible- to try and bring the highest possible number of innocents, such as children in temporary accommodation, into the equation- while ignoring those who are sleeping rough- other than wheeling out photographs of poor souls sleeping on cardboard in doorways- to try and spearhead campaigns for donations (or, of course, if there are fatalities- which there are a few of every year- unless there were other reasons behind the fatalities- such drug use, alcohol etc).

Then there is the need to actually understand the statistics that are getting trotted out- the spin being put on them- and the comparisons that are made to other jurisdictions etc.

Yes- we have a homeless issue- and yes, no matter how you look at it- it is worsening. However, arguably- it is blown out of proportion in a deliberate fashion- because it suits certain groups to do so.

I do think we need more emergency accommodation for families and children- and better availability of hostels for those who are sleeping rough- however, more importantly than either of these- is to look at the root causes of these issues- and tackle the causes of homelessness head on- rather than simply tinkering with the symptoms.

Top of the list in my mind- would be investment in mental health and addiction centres- to try and help people help themselves (the old give a man a fish and you feed him for a day- teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime mantra).

I think we're going about things in all the wrong ways- and responding to shrill press releases from interest groups- without a proper understanding, or often care, for what the issues are that are causing the problems to begin with.

I also think that the broad paint strokes- such as the Clonburris SDZ- are simply solving one problem- and creating a far bigger- but different problem- on the basis it'll be someone else who has to deal with it in time. We've already had Clonburris lite- look at Tallaght during the late 70s early 80s- yet- we've decided to pull that rabbit out of the hat again..........

When the only policy that is in play- is to oil the wheels that screech the loudest- you end up with half baked, poorly thought out schemes- that sort nothing- and simply solve one problem by creating another.

whisky_galore

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Disturbingly, it's never gonna be solved, in fact it's gonna keep getting worse, indefinitely

I see student accom being fired up with great haste in one place in particular. It's profitable to build these, but not homes/apts for ordinary Joe Soaps?

LirW

whisky_galore wrote: »

I see student accom being fired up with great haste in one place in particular. It's profitable to build these, but not homes/apts for ordinary Joe Soaps?

The average prices in these new student blocks are a bad joke though. Only students with a wealthy background will be able to afford living in these.

whisky_galore

LirW wrote: »

The average prices in these new student blocks are a bad joke though. Only students with a wealthy background will be able to afford living in these.

Ah, so there's the rub. Like everything else so.

LirW

There certainly is a market for exclusive student accommodation, it's just ridiculously expensive. If you don't have the financial background, which plenty don't have, they will stay in normal room shares.
So no, if you don't have the change in your pocket, it's certainly a problem to get your homeless a~se housed.

Edit: In New Mill for example, the very cheapest you can get is 255pw. It certainly is a fancy block for students with fancy needs. But still to expensive for average Irish Students from average households.

whisky_galore

LirW wrote: »

There certainly is a market for exclusive student accommodation, it's just ridiculously expensive. If you don't have the financial background, which plenty don't have, they will stay in normal room shares.
So no, if you don't have the change in your pocket, it's certainly a problem to get your homeless a~se housed.

Wouldn't professionals/working people (who would normally go for the now-increasingly unaffordable apt or house purchase) bump the students off the traditional house shares now, forcing less well off students...wherever?

LirW

Probably.
I think the way this is going is that an increasing number of students in Ireland will have to take loans to afford accommodation in the cities next to fees. I think the time of "ah shur just move into a houseshare" is coming to an end in Dublin, which leaves field to thugs that can make good buck out of desperate people.
The willingness to rent to students if not purpose-built is going down, since they can be a hassle as much as social welfare recipients, families with children, people with pets or pretty much anyone who isn't in full-time employment and preferably a couple (less wear and tear haha).

Wanderer78

LirW wrote: »

Probably.
I think the way this is going is that an increasing number of students in Ireland will have to take loans to afford accommodation in the cities next to fees. I think the time of "ah shur just move into a houseshare" is coming to an end in Dublin, which leaves field to thugs that can make good buck out of desperate people.
The willingness to rent to students if not purpose-built is going down, since they can be a hassle as much as social welfare recipients, families with children, people with pets or pretty much anyone who isn't in full-time employment and preferably a couple (less wear and tear haha).

student debt, thats working out well in countries such as america!;)

antoinolachtnai

Every extra unit of student accommodation makes an extra unit available for general use.

It is easy to criticize student accommodation as being too expensive.

But make no mistake, this stops poor people being displaced from their homes to make way for high spending students.

But it is a little hard to take from people whose idea of helping end homelessness is to give out free pizzas criticizing developers who are actually building homes for people to live in.

The_Conductor

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Every extra unit of student accommodation makes an extra unit available for general use.

It is easy to criticize student accommodation as being too expensive.

But make no mistake, this stops poor people being displaced from their homes to make way for high spending students.

But it is a little hard to take from people whose idea of helping end homelessness is to give out free pizzas criticizing developers who are actually building homes for people to live in.

Funnily enough- the student accommodation model- where people have a room and possibly a small bathroom/shower- or maybe a share of a bathroom/shower- and a shared living area- with shared kitchen/foodstorage/fridge facilities- are actually being built for the rental market.

I viewed one of these on behalf of a colleague a few weeks ago out at Leopardstown- the straw that broke the camels back was cctv on the fridge and foodstorage- aka there is an assumption that none of the renters trust one another...........

This was for graduates and singletons- not students- but it appears to be in high demand- and when its well specc'ed- there are no shortage of takers for it........

LirW

That is the thing though, the amount of student accommodation that's being built isn't for the average student. It's for the international student that can afford to study wherever they want. So I'm not seeing where this is solving shortage or homelessness problems, because the average student won't be able to fork out over a grand a month for the cheapest option that's available in these institutions. This is not affordable (!) student accommodation.
So the average student will stay put in a private rental market and try getting into cheaper shares.

Bubbaclaus

LirW wrote: »

That is the thing though, the amount of student accommodation that's being built isn't for the average student. It's for the international student that can afford to study wherever they want. So I'm not seeing where this is solving shortage or homelessness problems, because the average student won't be able to fork out over a grand a month for the cheapest option that's available in these institutions. This is not affordable (!) student accommodation.
So the average student will stay put in a private rental market and try getting into cheaper shares.

It's freeing up accommodation elsewhere. Increasing supply at the top increases availability the whole way down the chain.

antoinolachtnai

Affordability is a bit of a dogma that has gone unchallenged.

High end accommodation is a perfectly viable way of driving down rents.

http://humantransit.org/2017/11/learning-for-portlands-for-rent-signs.html

whisky_galore

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Every extra unit of student accommodation makes an extra unit available for general use.

LoL, as if the students that would stay in these spanking new apts would lower themselves to lodge in an average student fleapit. :pac:

Wishful thinking...in fact this is like what the govt is doing, nipping around the edges instead of tackling the root of the problem.

antoinolachtnai

No. They would be more likely to displace a struggling family by outbidding them.

What exactly is the root of the problem? Other than an acute shortage of accommodation?