Homelessness on the rise

whisky_galore

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

.

What exactly is the root of the problem? Other than an acute shortage of accommodation?

Actually building social housing, remember when that used to be a thing from about the 1920s onwards... when the country hadn't two red pennies to rub together?

But now that we're reasonably well off, it somehow can't be done.
Riddle me that.

The_Conductor

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

What exactly is the root of the problem? Other than an acute shortage of accommodation?

The root of the problem for the homeless who are sleeping rough- is a combination of mental health and/or addiction issues.

The other cohorts- including all those being put up in hotels/B&Bs etc- is a lack of availability of social housing (and an active policy on the part of local authorities to divest of their stocks of social housing).

The core issue- the government doesn't want to be in the market of housing those incapable of housing themselves any longer- and is abdicating responsibility to the private sector- who are only lukewarm on the idea- particularly given how they are being carted out as the bogeymen and the cause of all the issues (aka the government have a handy scapegoat).

So- combination of factors- but the two stand-out issues are a lack of investment in mental health and addiction treatment facilities- married to a decision to get out of the market of housing those who for whatever reason, are incapable of housing themselves.

whisky_galore

People in their own homes think it won't affect them, just wait until little Johnny and Mary can't find a place to stay for uni or work and worse....wait until crime goes through the roof. Add a lack of Guards and a laughable legal system to the mix. It'll be a perfect sh!tstorm.

antoinolachtnai

This analysis is really hard to square with the facts.

Mental health services weren’t any better in 2011. They were worse.

There was even less social housing in 2011. The government has been out of the housing business for decades.

But there wasn’t a shortage because there was sufficient private accommodation available.

The problem is clearly not just for people on low income. People with significant income are having difficulties getting homes.

The root cause of this problem is growth in population coupled with a lack of homes for them to live in.

The only way to solve it is for more homes to be built.

Tony EH

whisky_galore wrote: »

People in their own homes think it won't affect them, just wait until little Johnny and Mary can't find a place to stay for uni or work and worse....wait until crime goes through the roof. Add a lack of Guards and a laughable legal system to the mix. It'll be a perfect sh!tstorm.

Mmmmm. The "I'm alright Jack" mentality does have a way of coming round and biting those who think that way on the ass.

whisky_galore

Tony EH wrote: »

Mmmmm. The "I'm alright Jack" mentality does have a way of coming round and biting those who think that way on the ass.

Between this and the looming pensions timebomb, there's a hell of a lot of whistling past the graveyard going on.

The_Conductor

whisky_galore wrote: »

Between this and the looming pensions timebomb, there's a hell of a lot of whistling past the graveyard going on.

We have a formal schedule for increasing the age at which the contributory old age pension vests- to 68- and today we've announced public sector employees can work until age 70- to get over the gap between 40 years service and the contributory pension not vesting until 68........... The writing is on the wall. By increasing the retirement age into the 70s- the actuarial cost of paying pensions in future- will be a fraction of what it might otherwise be.

Our current generation look like they'll be the first generation in the last hundred years- to be significantly worse off than their parents.........

Tony EH

That doesn't eliminate the problem of what work these 60 year old's are going to actually do.

There's already a huge swath of people in their 50's that find it hard to get work and companies generally hire younger folk over older ones. I can't remember the last time my own company had a new hire that was over 50. On my floor, there's one person here that's over that age and she's been here since the mid 90's.

Raising the pensionable age is all well and good, but ignoring the fact that people in that age group are largely unemployable is ignoring half the problem.

The_Conductor

Tony EH wrote: »

That doesn't eliminate the problem of what work these 60 year old's are going to actually do.

There's already a huge swath of people in their 50's that find it hard to get work and companies generally hire younger folk over older ones. I can't remember the last time my own company had a new hire that was over 50. On my floor, there's one person here that's over that age and she's been here since the mid 90's.

Raising the pensionable age is all well and good, but ignoring the fact that people in that age group are largely unemployable is ignoring half the problem.

If you can't discriminate against them on age grounds, and they don't get the old age pension until 70 and cannot be forced to retire- presto, the pensions time bomb solved.............

I see that champion of the homeless Erica Fleming isn’t happy with her forever home one should be careful what one wishes for. https://mobile.twitter.com/EricaHome1/status/938157897929945094

Slydice

There are now almost 9000 homeless. Almost 3500 are children.


--

The November figures have been released:
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/homeless_report_-_november_2017.pdf

Homelessness is on the rise. I've updated the two charts based on the totals they give.

Homelessness (Adults)


Family Homelessness


The latest report does not have commentary where previous reports did. They used to include:

The long term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes

or:

The root cause of increased homelessness is the supply shortage across the housing sector, which in turn is a result of the recent economic collapse and the associated damage to the construction sector. Accordingly the long-term solution to the current homeless issue is to increase the supply of homes.

Coverage of this report:
Staggering new figures reveal number of homeless people rose by 365 to 8,857 last month as 139 more children, 226 more adults and 67 more families used emergency accommodation in November than October
Minister for Housing Eoghan Murphy said: 'Obviously the increase in November is disappointing.' Anthony Flynn, of Inner City Helping Homeless, said: 'This situation needs to be declared a crisis'
https://www.thesun.ie/news/1952800/staggering-new-figures-reveal-number-of-homeless-people-rose-by-365-to-8857-last-month-as-139-more-children-226-more-adults-and-67-more-families-used-emergency-accommodation-in-november-than-october/


Tweets:
https://twitter.com/ICHHDUBLIN/status/943228536923611136

https://twitter.com/ICHHDUBLIN/status/943226819456749568

https://twitter.com/PMVTrust/status/943234409146339328

https://twitter.com/FocusIreland/status/943231088670969856


Other recent media on homelessness and supply shortage in Ireland:
‘I won’t survive another winter’ - the last words of woman who died in a doorway
http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/i-wont-survive-another-winter--the-last-words-of-woman-who-died-in-a-doorway-464686.html

Those were Kathleen O’Sullivan’s words days before she died in a doorway in Cork city, writes Donal O’Keeffe.

Warnings about rising house prices and debt
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/warnings-about-rising-house-prices-and-debt-818467.html

Its new build estimates based on ESB power connections projects home completions will rise to 24,000 units next year from 19,500 homes this year.
However, that would still leave the market being short of 10,000 houses a year even before taking into account the pent-up demand arising from the many years of undersupply, Mr McQuinn said.

House prices soar as demand continues to outstrip supply
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/house-prices-soar-as-demand-continues-to-outstrip-supply-818356.html

The Central Bank’s second edition of the 2017 Macro-Financial Review (MFR) said demand in the housing market continued to outstrip supply and many households were vulnerable to debt and interest rate rises.

Are spiralling Dublin rents choking its economic growth?
Even generous relocation packages fail to compensate executives working in capital
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/are-spiralling-dublin-rents-choking-its-economic-growth-1.3327866

This could put even more pressure on the already razor-thin supply of rental properties coming to the market.

Housing costs damaging our competitiveness again
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/housing-costs-damaging-our-competitiveness-again-36414692.html

Soaring house prices and record rents risk undermining Ireland's international competitiveness as higher mortgage payments and rents feed through into the general price level.
Last week, the National Competitiveness Council published its annual Competitiveness Challenge report. In the report the NCC warned that: "The shortage and cost of residential property is damaging competitiveness. It impacts upon our attractiveness for mobile investment and talent. High rents affect decisions around labour mobility and entering employment."

cursai

Is it actually on the rise or are they moving the goalposts again.

cursai

cursai wrote: »

Is it actually on the rise or are they moving the goalposts again.

According to Alice Leahy, it’s roughly the same as it was 40 odd years ago when she set up her charity.

davidmarsh

How many empty residential units are there in the state?

I've heard McVerry mention figures of 300,000 and I heard other figures mentioned closer to 400,000.

Now, I wouldn't suggest or imagine that every one of these units are in a habitable state, but.. how many are? How many could be, with little work?

I spoke to someone recently who has an elderly parent in a nursing home. She told me that, as part of the terms of stay at the nursing home, the family were not permitted to rent out or sell the home that had been vacated. It's perfectly habitable she said. And Vacant. She wondered how many other similar homes lay vacant.

I've also heard some remarkable percentages as to the level of homes, owned by councils themselves, that are currently idle. Why is this the case?

I'm not an expert in this field. I only know what I hear, read, observe, etc. I took a spin through a residential area of Cork city recently and saw hundreds of empty houses. Loads of boarded up houses and many more that looked idle. There were plenty of houses occupied at the same time, so I was thinking if those houses were good enough for those occupants, there should be no reason the empty ones couldn't be occupied.

As I drove by, the news came on the radio. First up... the housing crisis. "Shortage of homes at crisis point". "Rents soaring to record highs". The solution.. "Build more houses". I can't turn on the TV or radio now, or pick up a paper, but I'm being told there's a shortage of houses. It's everywhere.

whisky_galore

There's something like a half doz. boarded up houses on my street.

If I was cynical, I would think someone is sitting on them, waiting for the right time....

antoinolachtnai

What are they waiting on? They can never collect last month’s rent again. Is there a realistic possibility of knocking these and building an apartment block?

The CSO has figures for how many houses they consider habitable but vacant at the census.

There are 32000 vacant homes in Dublin by their reckoning.

https://www.eire.com/2017/by-the-end-of-the-year-providing-some-relief-in-the-dublin-property-market/

davidmarsh

There appears to be (to my mind anyway) vast swathes of perfectly good homes deemed 'uninhabitable'.

Is it true councils cannot use homes unless they have ensuite facilities, for example?

zell12

To me, it's an ideological issue - where government have embraced free market regardless. Further, are relying on private market to meet the needs of a large swathe of the population who cannot access funds/mortgage etc.

Homeowners don't want the value of their asset to fall, therefore they'll keep voting for those who won't build more houses/solve the issue of supply.

You'll never hear a house-seller say they want it to go to someone who needs it or a struggling family and I'll take 20% less money for the sale please.

Housing (people needs) and Houses (investment) are not separated.
Fr Peter McVerry called the homelessness issue a political issue. I agree.

And it'll worsen.

davidmarsh

davidmarsh wrote: »

There appears to be (to my mind anyway) vast swathes of perfectly good homes deemed 'uninhabital'.

Is it true councils cannot use homes unless they have ensuite facilities, for example?

Heaven help them if there’s the hint of a draught wafting through the windows.

NIMAN

Its not just an Irish thing:

Main page of BBC News this morning has 3 homelessness related stories:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42427398

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-42429432/five-things-you-may-not-know-about-homelessness

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42424141

Bubbaclaus

Homelessness figures should be just tracking rough sleepers only.

Once they have been given a roof over their heads the taxpayers job is done as far as I'm concerned.

NIMAN

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Homelessness figures should be just tracking rough sleepers only.

Once they have been given a roof over their heads the taxpayers job is done as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, it does seem strange that a family can be counted on the stats as being homeless when they are renting a house.

Slydice

More coverage since the latest release:

‘Out of control’ rental sector sparks call for drastic measures
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/out-of-control-rental-sector-sparks-call-for-drastic-measures-464749.html

Threshold chair, Dr Aideen Hayden, said the private rental sector was driving homelessness in some cases and added: “It is sad to say that we are seeing landlords enforcing eviction notices even this week and leaving people without homes for Christmas.”

Homeless crisis: Nearly 9,000 destitute in November
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/homeless-crisis-nearly-9-000-destitute-in-november-1.3333124
Housing department figures reveal 4% increase on those without home in October

We are in the middle of the worst crisis in living memory as nearly 9,000 people are homeless nationwide - more than one in every three of these people is a child.

The Number Of Homeless People In Ireland Has Reached An All-Time High
https://lovin.ie/news/the-number-of-homeless-people-in-ireland-has-reached-an-all-time-high
There are now 3,333 homeless children here

Inner City Helping Homeless have called the rocketing figures a "national disgrace" and said they would be even higher if they included people couch surfing or sleeping rough outside Dublin City centre.

Outrage as homeless figures reach record high
http://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/outrage-homeless-figures-reach-record-14060330
It is the highest number of homeless adults , the highest number of homeless families and the highest number of homeless children in the history of the State

There is a failure to understand how critical that obvious point is that you need to cut the numbers coming in and not just look at the emergency measures when they’re homeless

‘Out of control’ rental sector sparks call for drastic measures
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/out-of-control-rental-sector-sparks-call-for-drastic-measures-464749.html

Threshold chair, Dr Aideen Hayden, said the private rental sector was driving homelessness in some cases and added: “It is sad to say that we are seeing landlords enforcing eviction notices even this week and leaving people without homes for Christmas.”

An Increase Of 365 People To Make A Total Of 8,857
https://www.broadsheet.ie/2017/12/20/an-increase-of-365-people-to-make-a-total-of-8857/

Specifically, there was an increase of 139 children, 226 adults and 67 families from October.

Number of homeless children at a record high over Christmas
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/number-of-homeless-children-at-a-record-high-over-christmas-36423566.html

A record number of children and families will be spending this Christmas without a home.

KellyXX

davidmarsh wrote: »

There appears to be (to my mind anyway) vast swathes of perfectly good homes deemed 'uninhabitable'.

Is it true councils cannot use homes unless they have ensuite facilities, for example?

I am currently looking for a rental and a friend was moving out of their house that they had been in for 5 years to go abroad. I approached their landlord with an offer and he said he couldnt rent it to us, he was just leaving it empty for the time being until the rent control issues are sorted out, or he might just sell it, he hasnt decide yet. Its not the only time in the last while ive come up against rent control being cited as an issue when trying to rent.

VonBeanie

KellyXX wrote: »

I am currently looking for a rental and a friend was moving out of their house that they had been in for 5 years to go abroad. I approached their landlord with an offer and he said he couldnt rent it to us, he was just leaving it empty for the time being until the rent control issues are sorted out, or he might just sell it, he hasnt decide yet. Its not the only time in the last while ive come up against rent control being cited as an issue when trying to rent.

All the talk from our leaders is about "increasing supply". Nobody says anything about "increasing supply of private rented accommodation". Even if more properties are coming on stream, more rental properties certainly are not. Ever increasing control of private landlords is driving them out of the market. Some are moving to short term rentals, some are selling up. Next years RTB annual report is going to tell a sad tail.

NIMAN

So the Irish Times think 9000 people were destitute in November.

I think they need to look up the meaning of destitute.

PeterCasey

Very sad to day in Dundrum Dublin with all the fuss of Christmas shopping etc ,I see a young couple getting into a tent they had as there home what a pity things are gone this bad Ireland the home of a thousand welcomes get a grip.

GGTrek

Slydice wrote: »

More coverage since the latest release:

‘Out of control’ rental sector sparks call for drastic measures
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/out-of-control-rental-sector-sparks-call-for-drastic-measures-464749.html

Threshold chair, Dr Aideen Hayden, said the private rental sector was driving homelessness in some cases and added: “It is sad to say that we are seeing landlords enforcing eviction notices even this week and leaving people without homes for Christmas.”

OP your quoting is really one sided and totally biased. Quoting threshold or Mc Verry Trust is quoting trotskyst organizations that want the total expropration of private property! Of course landlord will enforce evictions, if the tenant is not paying why should he/she be allowed to squat rent free (the law already allows a non paying tenant to squat for almost 12 months), if the landlord is selling due to the non-performing asset (caused by the high reg costs imposed by the govvie) he/she will need the asset vacant before selling or the landlord will lose most of the value of the investment if not vacant due to the buyers not wanting tenant occupied houses/apartments (again govvie regs come to mind).

Your line is starting to become the communist line, which is where I usually draw my line since I despise communists who think they can expropriate others people assets through force. The homeless figures are just due to the fact that your own Irish govvie has not invested in social housing for more than a decade! The private rental sector should have never been burdened with supporting the homeless like you are purporting in the post I quoted. But your line is very convenient to the communists and to the Irish govvie deflecting the blame!

Topgear on Dave

KellyXX wrote: »

I am currently looking for a rental and a friend was moving out of their house that they had been in for 5 years to go abroad. I approached their landlord with an offer and he said he couldnt rent it to us, he was just leaving it empty for the time being until the rent control issues are sorted out, or he might just sell it, he hasnt decide yet. Its not the only time in the last while ive come up against rent control being cited as an issue when trying to rent.

This person is "Landlording".

As far as i can see its the view of many of the homeless organisations that it shouldnt be allowed :rolleyes: :pac:

splinter65

PeterCasey wrote: »

Very sad to day in Dundrum Dublin with all the fuss of Christmas shopping etc ,I see a young couple getting into a tent they had as there home what a pity things are gone this bad Ireland the home of a thousand welcomes get a grip.

They’ve decided to live in a tent. How is that sad?!