Homelessness on the rise

Slydice

NIMAN wrote: »

Sorry but these figures are just plainly wrong.

9104 people homeless? Where are they all?

If you count homeless figures in a way that suits you, you'll get any number you want.

It was explained a few reports back. They add the total adults + the total children: 5837 + 3267 = 9,104

Slydice wrote: »

Homelessness (Adults)


Family Homelessness

Bubbaclaus

NIMAN wrote: »

Sorry but these figures are just plainly wrong.

9104 people homeless? Where are they all?

If you count homeless figures in a way that suits you, you'll get any number you want.

Approx 9,000 of them have a roof over their heads every night. The remainder refuse to be helped.

This is unbelievable. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/some-30-rough-sleepers-refused-emergency-shelter-last-night-as-temperatures-plunged-36657637.html

NIMAN

Slydice wrote: »

It was explained a few reports back. They add the total adults + the total children: 5837 + 3267 = 9,104

You can stick up all the graphs you want, but there's not 9104 homeless people in Ireland.

There are 9104 if you present the figures in a way that suits your agenda.

NIMAN

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is unbelievable. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/some-30-rough-sleepers-refused-emergency-shelter-last-night-as-temperatures-plunged-36657637.html

You can't force adults to come in against their will.

On a similar note, there was a guy on LiveLine sleeping in his car, despite being offered a 1 bed flat. Some people are just awkward.

hawkelady

NIMAN wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is unbelievable. https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/some-30-rough-sleepers-refused-emergency-shelter-last-night-as-temperatures-plunged-36657637.html

You can't force adults to come in against their will.

On a similar note, there was a guy on LiveLine sleeping in his car, despite being offered a 1 bed flat. Some people are just awkward.

True , I heard that clown. He refused the 1bed apt because he wanted a 2 bed !! Unbelievable !!!! Let him enjoy his car so

Atlantic Dawn

hawkelady wrote: »

True , I heard that clown. He refused the 1bed apt because he wanted a 2 bed !! Unbelievable !!!! Let him enjoy his car so

He should be blacklisted and put to the bottom of the q until every other person currently on the housing list has been offered a house/apartment.

the_syco

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

put to the bottom of the q

This is what currently happens. And they can keep saying "no" until they get the house in an area that they like.

Gatling

the_syco wrote: »

This is what currently happens. And they can keep saying "no" until they get the house in an area that they like.

After 3 refusals in a 12 month period ,

Which in theory you could refuse 2-3 properties every 12 months and not face sanctions ,

It should be a case refuse 2 properties and your discharged from the list and rental assistance withdrawal ,

Arcade_Tryer

Gatling wrote: »

It should be a case refuse 2 properties and your discharged from the list and rental assistance withdrawal ,

No it shouldn't.

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

You can't force adults to come in against their will.

Heard a report on the radio this morning that some were sectioned last night for their own safety. Sad really.

Arcade_Tryer

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

No it shouldn't.

Why not? If you are being housed by the state (and by tax payers money who are also paying for their own accommodation) you take what you get. If you want something better/different pay for it yourself like hardworking taxpayers have to do.

The_Conductor

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

No it shouldn't.

The state has to be a safety net for those who through no fault of their own- find themselves unable to house themselves. However, it should be a safety net- rather than a status that people should aspire to- and there is a deep inequity when ordinary honest workers find themselves at a disadvantage to those who are reliant on availing of the safety net the state provides.

This salient point- to paraphrase Al Gore- is an inconvenient truth.
You should not be better off claiming social welfare assistance and other state supports- than you are working. For a significant cohort of people- they are significantly better off out of work- than in work- and its stupid to try and suggest that this is not the case.

NIMAN

More 'homeless' people refusing houses

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/almost-one-third-of-families-refusing-social-housing-were-homeless-1.3414714

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

More 'homeless' people refusing houses

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/almost-one-third-of-families-refusing-social-housing-were-homeless-1.3414714

Do they not know that beggars cannot be choosers. Reasons for refusing include area having drugs and anti social behavior issues or is too far from family. In South Dublin County Council district 41 of the 87 refusals were from “Homeless” families.

TSQ

hawkelady wrote: »

Sure why would they bother when they get it all handed to them. If these type of scum actually had to buy the furniture themselves they mightn't be too quick to destroy it. I feel sorry for the landlord that's left with that mess. Jesus , and to think kids lived in that squalor. I've no doubt that in 15/20 years time those kids will be doing what their parents are doing now. Sub-human

Where were social services and the schools in all of this? Surely kids living in those conditions must have presented with signs of neglect? The parent must be either an alcoholic or a druggie, or mentally unstable. And this woman was able to disappear like that and take the kids too.

TSQ

The_Conductor wrote: »

The state has to be a safety net for those who through no fault of their own- find themselves unable to house themselves. However, it should be a safety net- rather than a status that people should aspire to- and there is a deep inequity when ordinary honest workers find themselves at a disadvantage to those who are reliant on availing of the safety net the state provides.

This salient point- to paraphrase Al Gore- is an inconvenient truth.
You should not be better off claiming social welfare assistance and other state supports- than you are working. For a significant cohort of people- they are significantly better off out of work- than in work- and its stupid to try and suggest that this is not the case.

Anyone getting a council house is made for life, even working people: whereas those renting (or paying) in the private sector can expect to pay up to 30% of net income for housing, apparently (I stand to be corrected on the actual figure) councils only charge 15% of income - whether from work or benefits - in rent. And for this, the council is expected to insure, maintain and upgrade the accommodation (e.g. installing a disabled bathroom, chair lift, double glazing to older properties, not to mention repairing damage caused by the very tenants). This is why those gaming the system are prepared to put themselves - and their kids - through years of misery, refusing private rentals. Because once you are allocated a council house, you have won the lottery. I know people who have been on the council list for years and are totally pissed off at the "homeless" jumping the queue in their area. They are not prepared to put their kids through misery so continue to rent privately, knowing their chance of getting a council house diminishes every year.

NIMAN

TSQ wrote: »

Anyone getting a council house is made for life, even working people: whereas those renting (or paying) in the private sector can expect to pay up to 30% of net income for housing, apparently (I stand to be corrected on the actual figure) councils only charge 15% of income - whether from work or benefits - in rent. And for this, the council is expected to insure, maintain and upgrade the accommodation (e.g. installing a disabled bathroom, chair lift, double glazing to older properties, not to mention repairing damage caused by the very tenants). This is why those gaming the system are prepared to put themselves - and their kids - through years of misery, refusing private rentals. Because once you are allocated a council house, you have won the lottery. I know people who have been on the council list for years and are totally pissed off at the "homeless" jumping the queue in their area. They are not prepared to put their kids through misery so continue to rent privately, knowing their chance of getting a council house diminishes every year.

Is it time they jacked it up a bit?

NIMAN

Almost 678 completed houses lying empty around the country.

Again, what homelessness crisis?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/hundreds-of-homes-left-empty-in-ghost-estates-as-there-is-no-demand-36678428.html

The_Conductor

NIMAN wrote: »

Almost 678 completed houses lying empty around the country.

Again, what homelessness crisis?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/hundreds-of-homes-left-empty-in-ghost-estates-as-there-is-no-demand-36678428.html

Over 20 of the fully complete vacant units are in 'Galway City Centre' (though none of the remainders are in Dublin or Cork city centres).

The 'homeless' want to live in very specific locations. They don't care that they can have their own home in Co. Clare (or any of a number of other locations)- if its not Dublin city centre- or Cork city centre- they're not interested.

Wonder where the 21 units in Galway city centre are?

Panjandrums

This post has been deleted.

TSQ

NIMAN wrote: »

Is it time they jacked it up a bit?

IMO council house rents should be related in some way to the average rent for an area and/or the cost of building and maintaining the property. Also, the cap on income to qualify for council housing should be raised or eliminated entirely - so you don't create whole areas of social disadvantage, as at present. Social tenants of council housing should be treated the same as those renting private accommodation: their rent topped up by social welfare payments. No-one should get 100% of their rent paid in any event (which seems to be the expectation, if not the practice, currently, given the reports of social tenants who complain of the rent allowance not meeting actual rent). In this way councils would be incentivised to build and those paying a commercially viable rent would subsidise those in genuine need. Enough smaller units for the elderly should be provided in an area so that empty nesters can move within their locality and make room for families, or (I'll be pilloried for echoing the unpopular UK bedroom tax) if a unit is AVAILABLE LOCALLY and empty nesters wish to stay put, they should have to pay for the privilege (but only if suitable LOCAL accommodation is available, in which case, you want to live a big house in old age, pay for it privately - don't expect the state to subsidise you lifestyle choice). And the sale of council houses should be stopped - it only makes sense at the moment because the upkeep of the average council house is a huge drain on the council budget. If rents were realistic and at least paid for upkeep, the logic of selling down council stock would vanish, councils would be incentivised to borrow to build if they could make a return on the investment, and property prices and rents would eventually be more affordable for all, based on the laws of supply and demand.

Panjandrums

Panjandrums wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The worst statement of all that I keep hearing is "hidden homeless" referring to people living at home. If you are living at home you are not homeless you are not even in the same solar system as homeless, it's the most nonsensical bull statement I've heard in years (and I've heard a lot of nonsensical statements).

antoinolachtnai

Vanessa Billions Strapless wrote: »

The worst statement of all that I keep hearing is "hidden homeless" referring to people living at home. If you are living at home you are not homeless you are not even in the same solar system as homeless, it's the most nonsensical bull statement I've heard in years (and I've heard a lot of nonsensical statements).

I see what you mean, but does this not have a macro-level impact on the birthrate? We are all depending on a good birthrate to ensure there are enough youngsters to be productive enough to pay for us and provide services to us in our old age.

jimmycrackcorm

antoinolachtnai wrote:

I see what you mean, but does this not have a macro-level impact on the birthrate? We are all depending on a good birthrate to ensure there are enough youngsters to be productive enough to pay for us and provide services to us in our old age.

Isn't that more of a relevant argument for the upcoming abortion referendum?

mariaalice

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-37759409

That is how they solve it in Hongkong.

Also looked up boxed in Hongkong people live in a box the size of a coffin.

The_Conductor

mariaalice wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-37759409

That is how they solve it in Hongkong.

Also looked up boxed in Hongkong people live in a box the size of a coffin.

That's how one unscrupulous tenant managed to sublet their apartment to 10 guinea pigs who agreed to live in a 2.1m 'pod'- netting the tenant about 3kEUR a month. The pods were the 'private space' for the individuals- they also had a shared kitchen and shared toilet facilities.

The whole concept was ridiculed in Hongkong- and the owner of the property apparently evicted the tenant who organised the subletting enterprise.

Tsssk.

NIMAN

Another interesting video, which once again shows how Ireland really hasn't got a homelessness crisis, it has a manufactured problem which people are playing to get what they want.

Its LIVING IN A HOTEL v HOPING TO GET A FOREVER HOME.

Compare this to people living on the streets in their tens of thousands in the most advanced country in the world.

And to think people are trying to convince you that there are 9000+ people in Ireland living like this?

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

Another interesting video, which once again shows how Ireland really hasn't got a homelessness crisis, it has a manufactured problem which people are playing to get what they want.

Its LIVING IN A HOTEL v HOPING TO GET A FOREVER HOME.

Compare this to people living on the streets in their tens of thousands in the most advanced country in the world.

And to think people are trying to convince you that there are 9000+ people in Ireland living like this?

A very interesting video. It shows that like Ireland the genuine homeless have mental health and drugs problems. It also points out the NIMBYism is same as here. Build homes but not in my neighborhood.

15 homeless people refused shelter last night. They are the genuine homeless people we need concentrate on. Not those who shout loudest from the comfort of their hotel rooms.

The_Conductor

Deleted User wrote: »

15 homeless people refused shelter last night. They are the genuine homeless people we need concentrate on. Not those who shout loudest from the comfort of their hotel rooms.

Maryanne- I agree 100% with you.
It 100% definitely *is* those who can't find a hostel- or for whatever reason- would rather sleep rough- than in a hostel- who need to be focused on.
This whole 'forever home' lark- has gone too far.
The whole 'homeless' industry- has become a self-supporting industry.
There are some very good people out there (running soup kitchens, shelters and providing some basic care for the genuine homeless)- and then there is a whole industry setup to help people get a 'forever home' where-ever they want it- on their terms- who are now trying to spin a tale that people who are living with their parents- are homeless too- and should be included in the statistics.

The Irish system- is a glorified parish pump system- and whoever shouts loudest and elbows their way to the front of the queue- gets whatever it is they're looking for- everyone else, especially the remarkably hard hammered tax payer- be damned.

We do have a homeless problem- those who are in need of our help the greatest- mostly have addiction and/or mental health issues.

This whole concept of 'forever homes' and organisations telling people how to play the system to jump ahead of the truly needy in society- is abhorrent and immoral- but its the way Irish society is- and if you try to call it for what it is- you are painted as worse than Hitler and made out to be some raving right-wing nut.

The latest wheeze- whereby anyone living at home with their parents gets incremented onto the homeless figure- is just the latest in a long chain of outlandish claims- which are detracting from investing money in addiction care and mental health services- which in my mind- is where we should be focusing.

I'm both proud and ashamed of many things in Ireland- and we have made much progress as a society in the last 30 years- however, we have singularly failed to make any progress in dismantling the parish-pump political system that is the ruin of us.