Homelessness on the rise

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Rising house prices and relatively stagnant pay, which is becoming common amongst free-for-all market economies, would hardly be playing a role here, would it?

Of course, the decent part I mention also exists
You'll never admit that, being a lefty

Wanderer78

The Student wrote:

House prices are rising because of a lack of supply. I see it everyday single mothers in there late 20's on the housing list 10/12 yrs waiting for their "forever home".

Augeo wrote:

Of course, the decent part I mention also exists You'll never admit that, being a lefty

This is well researched now folks, 'the market', is not truly capable of providing us with all our needs, particularly housing, housing prices are way out of our ability to pay, maybe the financial sector has a part to play here, the fact that banks in fact create the majority of our money via loans, just maybe!

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

This is well researched now folks, 'the market', is not truly capable of providing us with all our needs, particularly housing, housing prices are way out of our ability to pay, maybe the financial sector has a part to play here, the fact that banks in fact create the majority of our money via loans, just maybe!

Was that applicable in 2011? I remember daft.ie being full of properties to rent back then.
Who is "us"?

And what proportion of those homeless fall into the "waiting for my forever home and that was always my plan" category, in your opinion?

"the fact that banks in fact create the majority of our money via loans, just maybe" what waffler on twitter did you get that from?

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote: »

Was that applicable in 2011? I remember daft.ie being full of properties to rent back then.
Who is "us"?

And what proportion of those homeless fall into the "waiting for my forever home and that was always my plan" category, in your opinion?

"the fact that banks in fact create the majority of our money via loans, just maybe" what waffler on twitter did you get that from?

blaming this problem on the lower classes is rather boring now, as this is a very complex problem affecting the majority of the developed world.

the bank of england and the Bundesbank bank, some wafflers alright! :rolleyes:

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

blaming this problem on the lower classes is rather boring now, as this is a very complex problem affecting the majority of the developed world.

the bank of england and the Bundesbank bank, some wafflers alright! :rolleyes:

I'm not blaming anyone
Please do provide a link to where those banks claim to "create the majority of our money via loans"

Augeo wrote: »

Of course, the decent part I mention also exists
You'll never admit that, being a lefty

Augeo wrote: »

.............
And what proportion of those homeless fall into the "waiting for my forever home and that was always my plan" category, in your opinion?

........

You're not going to hazard a guess?
I didn't think you would

The Student

Wanderer78 wrote: »

This is well researched now folks, 'the market', is not truly capable of providing us with all our needs, particularly housing, housing prices are way out of our ability to pay, maybe the financial sector has a part to play here, the fact that banks in fact create the majority of our money via loans, just maybe!

The market is capable of providing needs as it is the fairest method. Instead the Govt with its policies is distorting the market. Market price is dictated by supply and demand. Land is a finite commodity and at some point we will run out of land to build on in Dublin.

How do you suggest we decide who should and should not be housed in Dublin against this finite commodity? is it fair someone working should have to spend 2 hours commuting every day to work in Dublin while somebody living in Dublin who does not work lives in a prime location?

Claw Hammer

Augeo wrote: »

I think a decent part of the problem is the kids of those who got social housing decades ago. For many it becomes an expectation that they'll be looked after by the State. There are folk in their 20s on housing lists for years. Waiting for their forever home near the folks, the local pub and their Paddy Power of choice.

How would someone in their 20's be on a housing list for years? They wouldn't be accepted onto a housing list unless they are a parent.

Wanderer78

Augeo wrote: »

I'm not blaming anyone
Please do provide a link to where those banks claim to "create the majority of our money via loans"

You're not going to hazard a guess?
I didn't think you would

please be aware, the bank of england and the bundasbank are not claiming they create the majority of our money supply but that all banks create the majority of our money supply via loans, by a method thats commonly called 'double entry book keeping'. ive included the papers from both institutions for your reading.

Wanderer78

The Student wrote: »

The market is capable of providing needs as it is the fairest method. Instead the Govt with its policies is distorting the market. Market price is dictated by supply and demand. Land is a finite commodity and at some point we will run out of land to build on in Dublin.

How do you suggest we decide who should and should not be housed in Dublin against this finite commodity? is it fair someone working should have to spend 2 hours commuting every day to work in Dublin while somebody living in Dublin who does not work lives in a prime location?

supply and demand and blah blah blah blah, again, the real world, particularly at the macro level, does not work in equilibriums, this is a major failing of our most pre dominant economic theory, i.e. neoclassical theory.

maybe we should consider ideas such as a land value tax?

The Student

Claw Hammer wrote: »

How would someone in their 20's be on a housing list for years? They wouldn't be accepted onto a housing list unless they are a parent.

You are allowed go on the housing list if you can't house yourself. Once you turn 18 your parents are no longer legally responsible for you and the State has a responsibility to provide you with accommodation hence the housing list.

The Student

Wanderer78 wrote: »

supply and demand and blah blah blah blah, again, the real world, particularly at the macro level, does not work in equilibriums, this is a major failing of our most pre dominant economic theory, i.e. neoclassical theory.

maybe we should consider ideas such as a land value tax?

I was wondering when the "Neo classical" reference would be made. Perhaps you could answer the question I posed rather then the Blah Blah comment!

Wanderer78

The Student wrote: »

I was wondering when the "Neo classical" reference would be made. Perhaps you could answer the question I posed rather then the Blah Blah comment!

sorry very busy right now, i ll try respond when i can, seriously, we really do need to move on from all this equilibrium stuff, as its a figment of our imaginations

Claw Hammer

The Student wrote: »

You are allowed go on the housing list if you can't house yourself. Once you turn 18 your parents are no longer legally responsible for you and the State has a responsibility to provide you with accommodation hence the housing list.

the State does not provide accommodation for single people. No local authority will register a single 18 year old for housing. No accommodation will be allocated to such a person. The local authorities do not provide housing support to single people under the age of 23.

ironclaw

Can I ask the genuine question, what counts as homelessness in Ireland? Is it simply the lack of a home to call ones own?

The reason I ask is that if you travel in North America, and other parts of the world, homelessness is in a whole other ball park. Shanty towns under highways, people who have clearly been without a solid home and on the streets for many years. Others who, every garbage day, are looking through bins for recyclables to get money from the. I've never seen this 'level' in Ireland.

To me, and I'm wide open to correction on this, the perception of homelessness is someone who lives on the streets, but these figures, and again I could be very wrong, include everyone in one statistic. If that is the case, I feel that is very wrong as it is not fully assessing the situation.

AlmightyCushion

Claw Hammer wrote: »

the State does not provide accommodation for single people. No local authority will register a single 18 year old for housing. No accommodation will be allocated to such a person. The local authorities do not provide housing support to single people under the age of 23.

It does seem to happen.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-just-want-a-home-for-my-children-mum-on-housing-list-for-12-years-36130478.html

A woman who has spent nearly 12 years on a council house waiting list has said "I just want to give my children a home of their own".

Orla Thornton (32), from Drogheda, Co Louth, and who has two children - 10-week-old daughter Lola-May and Noah (4) - said there must be more transparency in how houses are allocated.

There was another story I remember reading of a woman who was in her late 20s and she said she was on the housing list since since she was 18 but I can't find the story.

DubCount

Wanderer78 wrote: »

This is well researched now folks, 'the market', is not truly capable of providing us with all our needs, particularly housing, housing prices are way out of our ability to pay, maybe the financial sector has a part to play here, the fact that banks in fact create the majority of our money via loans, just maybe!

This is well researched - and if there was an easy answer, we'd have implemented it years ago.

Just saying "the market isn't working" is not helpful. What is the alternative? What government intervention do you want? Most importantly, the majority of government interventions would cost money - real money paid for by real taxes. What level of tax increase would be acceptable?

I hate the current definition of homelessness. I'm not saying emergency accommodation is a wonderful lifestyle choice, but in my view it is not the same as homelessness. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, at least some of the homeless statistics is driven by an element looking for a Council House in the area of their choice.

Housing is expensive because our planning process is difficult, building regulations are over-engineered, and our existing stock of housing is insufficient/poorly distributed. Changing this is more pain than anyone is prepared to take - so nothing will be done. Here are some suggestions to address homelessness that will never be adopted:
* Consolidate all housing lists into one national housing list, and dont allow social housing applicants to refuse an offer of housing anywhere in the country.
* Have all Councils undertake an audit of their housing stock and make filling every room compulsory. If a council tenant has a spare room, it is filled by someone off the housing list.
* Bring back bed sits.
* Increase the rate of USC at the lowest band so everyone in the country funds more direct government housing.
* Dont allow planning objections to residential planning applications. If someone wants to build a 12 story block of apartments next door to you - tough

Claw Hammer

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It does seem to happen.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-just-want-a-home-for-my-children-mum-on-housing-list-for-12-years-36130478.html



There was another story I remember reading of a woman who was in her late 20s and she said she was on the housing list since since she was 18 but I can't find the story.

at one time it was a condition of getting Rent Allowance that someone registered with the local council first. There is no reality to them ever getting housed by the council. In all cases where the person was under 23 their parents were visited and asked why the person was not living with them.

ted1

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Claw Hammer wrote: »

the State does not provide accommodation for single people. No local authority will register a single 18 year old for housing. No accommodation will be allocated to such a person. The local authorities do not provide housing support to single people under the age of 23.

It does seem to happen.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-just-want-a-home-for-my-children-mum-on-housing-list-for-12-years-36130478.html

A woman who has spent nearly 12 years on a council house waiting list has said "I just want to give my children a home of their own".

Orla Thornton (32), from Drogheda, Co Louth, and who has two children - 10-week-old daughter Lola-May and Noah (4) - said there must be more transparency in how houses are allocated.

There was another story I remember reading of a woman who was in her late 20s and she said she was on the housing list since since she was 18 but I can't find the story.

I rent out houses in the Dublin 10 area and the culture there is that once finished school the girl gets pregnant and goes straight into the housing list and generally get a house in the area they grew up in. There are whole housing estates where this is happening. It’s purely a lifestyle that people have.

Claw Hammer

ted1 wrote: »

I rent out houses in the Dublin 10 area and the culture there is that once finished school the girl gets pregnant and goes straight into the housing list and generally get a house in the area they grew up in. There are whole housing estates where this is happening. It’s purely a lifestyle that people have.

Most of them get pregnant and finish with school, rather than finishing school and then getting pregnant.

Claw Hammer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

How would someone in their 20's be on a housing list for years? They wouldn't be accepted onto a housing list unless they are a parent.

They have sprogs.
Or they're sprogless and have been on it since they're 23, as you mentioned yourself.

Claw Hammer

Augeo wrote: »

They have sprogs.

Then they are parents!

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

I rent out houses in the Dublin 10 area and the culture there is that once finished school the girl gets pregnant and goes straight into the housing list and generally get a house in the area they grew up in. There are whole housing estates where this is happening. It’s purely a lifestyle that people have.

Indeed, it would make interesting data if it was quantified what % of the housing list are ladies that you describe.

and of course, every house allocated to such a person is a house less for genuine cases.

Claw Hammer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Then they are parents!

Folk in their 20s, can be parents. We all know that.
You queried how someone in their 20s could be on the housing list for years. It seems your query was less than genuine.

Here you go https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=107386665&postcount=518

Wheeliebin30

Augeo wrote: »

Indeed, it would make interesting data if it was quantified what % of the housing list are ladies that you describe.

and of course, every house allocated to such a person is a house less for genuine cases.

No one would dare ever ask this question, imagine the outpouring from brid smith and rich Boyd Barrett.

The left media wouldn’t have the balls.

Claw Hammer

Augeo wrote: »

Folk in their 20s, can be parents. We all know that.
You queried how someone in their 20s could be on the housing list for years. It seems your query was less than genuine.

Yes but they only start to be considered for housing at that stage. they can't be years on the housing list unless they became parents at 18.

Help!!!!

FG/FF/SF have no idea & have no urgency to fix the homeless problems
You could fix Dublin's homeless problem within a year
We now have some of the most corrupt, incompetent politicians in the history of Ireland & thats saying something
Getting benefits should not be a lifestyle it should be there to help people in the short term

Claw Hammer

Help!!!! wrote: »

FG/FF/SF have no idea & have no urgency to fix the homeless problems
You could fix Dublin's homeless problem within a year
We now have some of the most corrupt, incompetent politicians in the history of Ireland & thats saying something
Getting benefits should not be a lifestyle it should be there to help people in the short term

So Lab Soc Dems and independents do have an idea and urgency to fix the homeless problems? There are plenty of houses. people just won't pay the money for them.

Claw Hammer

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Yes but they only start to be considered for housing at that stage. they can't be years on the housing list unless they became parents at 18.

Folk in their 20s.
That encompasses folk from the age of 20 to the age of 29.
By years, I meant anything over two So you could have someone who is 26 on the housing list 3 years, they'd be on it years

Help!!!!

Claw Hammer wrote: »

So Lab Soc Dems and independents do have an idea and urgency to fix the homeless problems? There are plenty of houses. people just won't pay the money for them.

Ah no they will never be in power so I dont bother mentioning them. Where are all these houses you talk of?

Claw Hammer

Help!!!! wrote: »

Ah no they will never be in power so I dont bother mentioning them. Where are all these houses you talk of?

So FF and Sf are in power? When did this happen?